Glass Jars Question, A21

[zztong]

7 hours ago, theFlu said:

Hmm, asking since you're actually modding it, and might've given it more of a test than I have: do you feel you're limited by the "water for glue production" at points in the game? What are those points? From A21 I never felt limited because of water past d1/d2, and while my experience with A22 is solely from YT, I don't think it changed much. If anything the collectors are more effective now. (?)

 

With and without my mod I don't feel constrained by glue production. Maybe, sometimes, I need to wait a day longer to make some glue or gather water. I used to need glue early to make Padded Armor. Usually I just need some duct tape and these days I'm equally likely to run out of cloth and need to go rip down curtains in a POI. This is likely a result of my crafting habits and my early willingness to stick with primitive tools. I tend to craft what I call "break point" things. I won't craft an Iron tool until I can make a Tier 5. I won't craft a steel tool until I can make a T5 or T6.

 

But in the discussions a year ago, (IIRC) some people lamented the difficulty of mass production of exploding arrows which they used in large numbers on horde night. I've kept that in the back of my mind as something that is important to the debate for one reason or another.

 

Yes, to me, in A21 three Dew Collectors was effectively infinite water and the "break even" point for being able to carry water away from a water source. In V1.0, that would be either 3 Dew Collectors or 1.5 Dew Collectors with the component that makes the Dew Collector gather water faster.

 

In the end I can't really understand or reconcile while TFP continues not letting people carry water away from a source, jars or no jars. It isn't a huge factor in the game. Making water harder to purify is more interesting and affects play longer, at least to me.

Edited July 29 by zztong (see edit history)

[zztong]

 

6 hours ago, Krougal said:

I also had tried the delay and stack limits but I feel like adding tedium would still not stop mass collection. Any power-gamer worth the title is going to sit there and get RSI clicking repeatedly and suffer through the mind-numbing boredom.

 

To some extent I agree. I can (and do) AutoHotkey things like mining and breaking into safes. I can get up and walk around, stretch my legs, take a drink, make a sandwich. But I don't need that much water, so having to invest a minute of play to get 10 waters means I'm not raiding a POI. It short enough I don't have a macro for that.

 

5 hours ago, Krougal said:

Make your crafting base a horde base to deal with the non-stop screamer horde and reap the rewards.

 

We shouldn't give them anymore bad ideas though. It always feels like they try to punish the players who will go to any length to game the system, but they just wind up punishing everyone.

 

I get what you're saying, but that's not their perspective. They're making a game. There's suffering, reward, and interesting decisions to be made. It's their job to complicate our game lives in interesting ways.

 

Also, a number of players look at screamers as bringing the player experience points. I've played with folks where we'd have a whole bunch of campfires to attract screamers and have a continual horde going. Yes, V1.0 caught me unprepared for the pair of screamers that showed up when I was running a forge and a campfire. I felt miffed at first, but Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!

[theFlu]

15 hours ago, Krougal said:

I also had tried the delay and stack limits but I feel like adding tedium would still not stop mass collection. Any power-gamer worth the title is going to sit there and get RSI clicking repeatedly and suffer through the mind-numbing boredom.

Yeh, guilty.. I'd incorporate water into my base one way or another (beach or bucket), so I can gather it while waiting for other stuff to craft.

 

8 hours ago, zztong said:

I tend to craft what I call "break point" things. I won't craft an Iron tool until I can make a Tier 5.

Overall sounds similar to what I do ... in A21 I usually mostly thought about crafting something; then the trader would toss me something slightly worse or even better, and I never really crafted much. My AGI run was the only where I actually crafted enough to run out of something temporarily, but even that was gun parts (quality 5s of all the 4 weapons IIRC).

[Krougal]

14 hours ago, zztong said:

 

 

To some extent I agree. I can (and do) AutoHotkey things like mining and breaking into safes. I can get up and walk around, stretch my legs, take a drink, make a sandwich. But I don't need that much water, so having to invest a minute of play to get 10 waters means I'm not raiding a POI. It short enough I don't have a macro for that.

 

 

I get what you're saying, but that's not their perspective. They're making a game. There's suffering, reward, and interesting decisions to be made. It's their job to complicate our game lives in interesting ways.

 

Also, a number of players look at screamers as bringing the player experience points. I've played with folks where we'd have a whole bunch of campfires to attract screamers and have a continual horde going. Yes, V1.0 caught me unprepared for the pair of screamers that showed up when I was running a forge and a campfire. I felt miffed at first, but Improvise! Adapt! Overcome!

I'm too lazy to set that up, but I really should. Getting too old for all the clicking.

 

Sometimes I wonder about the devs. Some of the mechanics just feel punitive. I started listing some points, but I don't want to digress. It also might be an unjustified feeling on my part.

 

Yes, I generally love the screamer hordes, except when I don't. I think if you are on an active quest they shouldn't come. Or at least they need to adjust the current mechanics a bit (I never really considered it an issue in prior versions). There is another discussion going about that.

 

6 hours ago, theFlu said:

Yeh, guilty.. I'd incorporate water into my base one way or another (beach or bucket), so I can gather it while waiting for other stuff to craft.

 

Overall sounds similar to what I do ... in A21 I usually mostly thought about crafting something; then the trader would toss me something slightly worse or even better, and I never really crafted much. My AGI run was the only where I actually crafted enough to run out of something temporarily, but even that was gun parts (quality 5s of all the 4 weapons IIRC).

Now I haven't even tried lately, can you still make an infinite water source? I thought they took the ability away from us many alphas ago.

 

I tend to do the same with the crafting, although with the extra water sources I am more inclined to craft more. I never really thought about it, but I hate the dew collector. It only holds 3 water and you have to check it all the time. I want to gather water like once a day or when I need it, not be arsed with checking the thing all the time. I put 1 at every base for emergency drinking water mostly I guess.

 

I am probably more than a little OCD so these kinda things (something I need to check on all the time) make me nuts and combine with my crappy time management skill and I feel like I waste a lot of time with these things. So I'm ready to get on my bike, but I check the collector and then I have to run all the way back up into the base and put it away. Yes, that is a me problem. If I had a field of the things I'd really drive myself insane. So I guess when I can just go and collect enough water for the week at once and be done with it, it helps me a lot, and I realize having this mod is a lot more important to me than I thought it was at first. 

 

For a bit of nostalgia and testing a couple things, I am actually playing an A19 game at the moment. It felt a bit weird to go and fill up a stack of glass jars in 1 swipe of my hand. I remember going into the desert to dig up a ton of sand to make 100s of jars at a time, but then I think that was for mass grain alcohol production, another blast from the past.

[theFlu]

7 hours ago, Krougal said:

Now I haven't even tried lately, can you still make an infinite water source? I thought they took the ability away from us many alphas ago.

I did test a bit in A21, I think I was able to duplicate 'some' water by tossing it around from a bucket; but it was just a quick test to see if it's at all possible, never got around to trying to actually make it work properly. I think JaWoodle had a bucket-made "well" to drink from at some point in A21 and it didn't seem to drain by drinking - of course any mechanic, mod or vanilla, to produce portable water might be different in that regard...

[meganoth]

23 hours ago, Krougal said:

am probably more than a little OCD so these kinda things (something I need to check on all the time) make me nuts and combine with my crappy time management skill and I feel like I waste a lot of time with these things. So I'm ready to get on my bike, but I check the collector and then I have to run all the way back up into the base and put it away.

 

A solution to this might be a storage box that you could place near the collectors. I usually do this for water as well as seeds and it helps tremendously fight the desire to go up into the base again. I usually also have a storage box on an outside wall reachable from inside and outside the base as a temporary storage for anything that eventually should go in or out of the base, like loot or stuff to sell.

 

 

[Krougal]

4 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

A solution to this might be a storage box that you could place near the collectors. I usually do this for water as well as seeds and it helps tremendously fight the desire to go up into the base again. I usually also have a storage box on an outside wall reachable from inside and outside the base as a temporary storage for anything that eventually should go in or out of the base, like loot or stuff to sell.

 

 

Haha, yeah one thing I've learned, especially from watching youtubes is I do not place anywhere near enough storage chests in the world. The main reason I am playing A19 right now is I was following along someone's insane/nightmare plathrough-tutorial. Even as long as I have been playing, it has just never been my style, I try to do stuff outside my comfort zone to learn from time to time. Although I still am finding it not for me, I've at least learned some new tricks, and it does give perspective on other playstyles.