Auger/Chainsaw T6: how to get?

[meganoth]

You will get a lot more resources from digging 2 days in a mine than you will get from the difference between a q5 and a q6 auger in a 100 days after wasting the same 2 days in a T5 (in case you really get the q6 auger at the first try).  If resource output is your only concern, don't do T5 quests, build a few T5 augers and use the best one.

 

The need is totally illusionary. If TFP removed T6 augers from the game you would use T5 augers all the time without feeling handicapped or anything. It is the same "need" driving people to get the 4.7Ghz CPU instead of the 4.6Ghz CPU because it is marginally faster, because it is a carrot before their nose.

 

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah well let´s remove them. Rather don´t have them than having a stupid luck based system. Also i don´t go hunting for them. I do the hospital anyways, no matter if there T6 rewards or not. Flesh and bones. Always needed. Also i need breaks from building. So for me the argument is still valid. It saves time to have a T6 one. The mods alone make it worth having one. Less breaks due to beeing able to have a bunker buster, iron breaker, bigger tank and structural brace or diamond tip. Wich means less refueling and repairing. Again a small amount of time saved wich adds up over a longer time.

[canadianbluebeer]

T5 quests give you a Q6 item.  You can just find Q6 stuff looting. So, put on them lucky goggles and have at it.

(yes, RNG may hate you. RNG hating you here, is a pale thing compared to it hating you in say, FTL)

 

[meganoth]

2 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Yeah well let´s remove them. Rather don´t have them than having a stupid luck based system. Also i don´t go hunting for them. I do the hospital anyways, no matter if there T6 rewards or not. Flesh and bones. Always needed. Also i need breaks from building. So for me the argument is still valid. It saves time to have a T6 one. The mods alone make it worth having one. Less breaks due to beeing able to have a bunker buster, iron breaker, bigger tank and structural brace or diamond tip. Wich means less refueling and repairing. Again a small amount of time saved wich adds up over a longer time.

Totally valid to look for a T6, I do that myself.

My point is essentially that this game has a strong luck component (to for example improve replayability). But even if luck doesn't favour you it does not hinder you in any serious way. It is a valid carrot for endgame and if you don't get that carrot, it doesn't matter much even in that specific playthrough. It is maybe on the same scale as a perk point you wasted on a perk you never used. It is not a reason for TFP to change the game, the game needs end-game carrots and it makes no sense to remove this one because someone might need to mine a minute more or use an additional repair pack per week.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

That´s pretty sad if you think about it, that you need random loot luck as endgame content because there is nothing else. I´d rather have serious endgame. Not some RNG crap. This game has crafting in the subtitle. Let us craft things and give us some real endgame. And yes i know there is still things coming but still.

 

But hey new shiny graphics are coming. Meh. It´s not like this game will  be appreciated by people who put graphics over everything else anyways. Every decent gamer knows that gameplay > graphics.

[meganoth]

15 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

That´s pretty sad if you think about it, that you need random loot luck as endgame content because there is nothing else. I´d rather have serious endgame. Not some RNG crap. This game has crafting in the subtitle. Let us craft things and give us some real endgame. And yes i know there is still things coming but still.

 

But hey new shiny graphics are coming. Meh. It´s not like this game will  be appreciated by people who put graphics over everything else anyways. Every decent gamer knows that gameplay > graphics.

Yeah sure, as if grinding/farming of mats would be the sooo much better option. We have to agree to disagree here

 

[Liesel Weppen]

52 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

That´s pretty sad if you think about it, that you need random loot luck as endgame content because there is nothing else. I´d rather have serious endgame.

So ok, assume they make T6 craftable... how does that make the endgame better?

 

7d2d is still early access and afaik the "real" endgame is still not done yet. I don't know about the current plans but once there was a behemoth planned (possibly discarded?) and bandits are still to come. I also heard about some questchains, maybe they come with special POIs and better (less RNG) loot?

 

Imho it's better if there are things you cannot craft. That would remove a lot of value from looting. I do not loot because i only want to farm ressources for other craftings. That somehow is not looting but farming. I want be able to find "special" items. So if they make T6 craftable, i hope there will be a mod, that allows you to find, and only find, T7 items.

Imho 7d2d is also not crafting-only. It's also looting.

[Boidster]

47 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Imho it's better if there are things you cannot craft. That would remove a lot of value from looting.

I have the opposite position. Is there anything in the game right now that cannot be found by looting or in a quest reward? That's an honest question; I don't think there is anything that is crafted-only, but maybe I'm missing a thing. (The various workstations I count as "found by looting".) Most games with a crafting component let you use crafting as a way to turn your pretty-good weapon into a super-weapon. Just slot a red gem in the pommel, upgrade the firmware, combine these two axes into a better one, etc. We should be able to get all sorts of pretty-good stuff from looting, but the very best stuff should be saved for artisan crafters.

 

I recognize that I am in a small minority with this opinion.

 

28 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Imho 7d2d is also not crafting-only. It's also looting.

Many people in this forum complain that 7D2D is "just a looter/shooter now". I did not know there were people who thought it was too heavy into crafting!

 

I usually play the crafter on my server, but in our current playthrough I dropped that for strength/agility. And we've pretty much just found all the stuff I would normally craft anyhow. Almost zero incentive to put any points into crafting (I put points into boomstick, and I get to craft better shotguns, so I have that going for me). I enjoyed being the player who outfitted the team, but honestly loot is so abundant that it was probably a waste of time for the most part. A few Crack-A-Books and we've learned to make almost everything. There seems to be no trade-off for avoiding spending points in crafting skills, except for maybe a longer wait to get item X. For example RNG is currently holding back on the damn cement mixer schematic... And OP is having a serious problem getting the T6 auger/chainsaw.

 

I am keen to see how things change in A19.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, Boidster said:

I have the opposite position. Is there anything in the game right now that cannot be found by looting or in a quest reward? That's an honest question; I don't think there is anything that is crafted-only, but maybe I'm missing a thing. (The various workstations I count as "found by looting".) Most games with a crafting component let you use crafting as a way to turn your pretty-good weapon into a super-weapon. Just slot a red gem in the pommel, upgrade the firmware, combine these two axes into a better one, etc. We should be able to get all sorts of pretty-good stuff from looting, but the very best stuff should be saved for artisan crafters.

 

I recognize that I am in a small minority with this opinion.

 

Many people in this forum complain that 7D2D is "just a looter/shooter now". I did not know there were people who thought it was too heavy into crafting!

 

I usually play the crafter on my server, but in our current playthrough I dropped that for strength/agility. And we've pretty much just found all the stuff I would normally craft anyhow. Almost zero incentive to put any points into crafting (I put points into boomstick, and I get to craft better shotguns, so I have that going for me). I enjoyed being the player who outfitted the team, but honestly loot is so abundant that it was probably a waste of time for the most part. A few Crack-A-Books and we've learned to make almost everything. There seems to be no trade-off for avoiding spending points in crafting skills, except for maybe a longer wait to get item X. For example RNG is currently holding back on the damn cement mixer schematic... And OP is having a serious problem getting the T6 auger/chainsaw.

 

I am keen to see how things change in A19.

I can semi-agree with this. For example I agree that it would be nice to have some items only craftable. Not only because of the reason you mention but also because I find too much structure and order to be detrimental.

 

That workstations should count as found by looting is wrong though. The recipe is learnable by perk, all resources (at least for forge and workbench, didn't check the others) can be harvested completely from ground, cars, plants, animals and zombies.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Liesel Weppen I didn´t say it´s better. I said it´s sad that this endgame carrot is needed. And you still would have to loot. That said, i never found a T6 auger or chainsaw, pumpshotgun and a few other things so far from looting. Only from rewards. Wich sucks as you need to play with trader. I mean you need to do that anyways, because you can´t get enough brass otherwise, wich sucks too, but is a different story. But that also makes looting a must. So even if we could craft T6 stuff you would still need to loot a lot for tokens.

 

Mats? Motor tool parts? Wouldn´t be that bad once you have the ability to craft T6 you usually have a bunch of them, also chainsaws drop a lot.

[meganoth]

40 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Liesel Weppen I didn´t say it´s better. I said it´s sad that this endgame carrot is needed. And you still would have to loot. That said, i never found a T6 auger or chainsaw, pumpshotgun and a few other things so far from looting. Only from rewards. Wich sucks as you need to play with trader. I mean you need to do that anyways, because you can´t get enough brass otherwise, wich sucks too, but is a different story. But that also makes looting a must. So even if we could craft T6 stuff you would still need to loot a lot for tokens.

 

Mats? Motor tool parts? Wouldn´t be that bad once you have the ability to craft T6 you usually have a bunch of them, also chainsaws drop a lot.

But that is the problem: How is it end-game if your mats are easily farmed together. To be end-game the material costs of the recipe have to be huge. For the T6 auger to not be generally available before lets say day 50 its recipe needs either a lot of motor tool parts, which would make it largely acquired by looting and (to a lesser degree as the T6 auger itself) dependant on RNG again. or lets say > 500 steel bars, which sounds ridiculous.

 

[pApA^LeGBa]

500 steel bars on day 50? A lot but somehow doable. I´d rather have a riddiculous amount of ressources needed than pure luck. Pure luck is the worst game experience especially in a crafting game, unless you willingly play a loot shooter like borderlands.

 

It could be also level dependent to make sure it´s endgame.

[Liesel Weppen]

2 hours ago, Boidster said:

I have the opposite position. Is there anything in the game right now that cannot be found by looting or in a quest reward?

You missunderstood my post. I did not say "only craftable", but only loot-able.

 

Quote

Many people in this forum complain that 7D2D is "just a looter/shooter now". I did not know there were people who thought it was too heavy into crafting!

Yep, and i think it's a nice mixture out of can-be-crafted and needs-to-be-found. There is still much room for improvement but i don't prefer a "i can craft everything" game.

 

Quote

I usually play the crafter on my server, but in our current playthrough I dropped that for strength/agility. And we've pretty much just found all the stuff I would normally craft anyhow. Almost zero incentive to put any points into crafting

That's not a problem about what is craftable, but a problem about how you obtain the ability to craft something. Put points into some skills or find the books.

Imho that is a... suboptimal balance. We usually find many books, but in the end however something is still missing and anybody skills for it anyway. Usually the RNG-god lets us find the missing book soon after...

 

53 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Liesel Weppen I didn´t say it´s better. I said it´s sad that this endgame carrot is needed. And you still would have to loot. That said, i never found a T6 auger or chainsaw, pumpshotgun and a few other things so far from looting.

 

Only from rewards. Wich sucks as you need to play with trader. I mean you need to do that anyways, because you can´t get enough brass otherwise, wich sucks too, but is a different story. But that also makes looting a must. So even if we could craft T6 stuff you would still need to loot a lot for tokens.

 

Mats? Motor tool parts? Wouldn´t be that bad once you have the ability to craft T6 you usually have a bunch of them, also chainsaws drop a lot.

Can somebody please make the forum BBcode-able. It's a pure @%$*#!ing PITA to quote...

I found shotguns, augers and many others in T6. So you're already proven wrong.

Need for brass is currently the lategame. And yes, you need traders for that. Best point ATM imho. If you could mine brass like lead, there would be no lategame at all.

 

The current "parts"-system is something i don't really like, too. Not because you can't craft T6 but you need to find tools to scrap just for being able to craft them at all.

Imho there should be a way to craft a baseball bat up to T5 WITHOUT the need to find dozens of bad baseball bats before. However, still not T6.

[Boidster]

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

That workstations should count as found by looting is wrong though. The recipe is learnable by perk, all resources (at least for forge and workbench, didn't check the others) can be harvested completely from ground, cars, plants, animals and zombies.

What I meant was, in asking "is there anything in the game that is crafted-only?" I was considering workbenches as "not crafted-only" since you can just find them in the world. You do not need to craft one in order to have access to one.

 

3 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

You missunderstood my post. I did not say "only craftable", but only loot-able.

You misunderstood my misunderstanding. 🙂 When I asked "Is anything in the game that is crafted only?" I was setting context for my position, which is: there ought to be items in the game that are crafted only. I do not think any such items exist right now.

 

Yes, there are loot/reward-only items, but there are no craft-only items. I think this is a (very minor) flaw in the game. T6 items seem to me an obvious set which could be made "crafted only" while still allowing shooter/looter players to get quite a nice set of kit without spending any points in crafting perks.

[Liesel Weppen]

Just now, Boidster said:

You misunderstood my misunderstanding. 🙂 When I asked "Is anything in the game that is crafted only?" I was setting context for my position, which is: there ought to be items in the game that are crafted only. I do not think any such items exist right now.

Yep, my recent playthrough was nomad and we dealt up to day.... 40 without an own workbench.

I'm fine with items that can be ONLY crafted. However that sould be things that are not necessarily needed for progress. A workbench however should never be crafting-only.  Fine with the recog or the forgetting elexir. Maybe even the solar cells...

 

Just now, Boidster said:

Yes, there are loot/reward-only items, but there are no craft-only items. I think this is a (very minor) flaw in the game. T6 items seem to me an obvious set which could be made "crafted only" while still allowing shooter/looter players to get quite a nice set of kit without spending any points in crafting perks.

Maing stuff that is currently only findable just crafting-only wouldn't change anything then making the discussion the other way round. Especially if it is a common use item like an auger.

I don't like the skillsystem of A18 anyways, because it "forces" you in few directions, otherwise it's overally inefficient. It's nearly impossible to skill an "allrounder". That's somehow doable since i only play multiplayer, but that is also a reason why i NEVER will play ESPECIALLY  A18 singleplayer. It's just PITA there (imho).

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Liesel Weppen I never said you can´t find them. I said i didn´t find them. That´s a different thing. Also i never said that i want brass to be mineable, i said you need the trader for brass. Also a completly different thing. I would lilke to see bullet casings cheaper and tokens not beeing able to be smelted or made out of iron or something else. 

 

I would love to play without trader, simply for a change, but the current state of the game forces you to use it. Wich is a shame.

 

Due to the parts, T5 beeing lootable easy, mostly before you can craft it and T6 not beeing craftable i barely craft things like weapons, tools or armor. Pretty much never, besides the auger. That can´t be the point of all that either. Constantly having to go to the trader and doing quests also lead to that. You just get more loot that way due to the rewards and on many occasions the main loot is way too easy to reach to let the chance of double dipping just pass. I know that´s on me, but just not getting something so simple just feels wrong in a survival game.

 

Let´s see if the slow vanishing of crafting in this game goes on in A19.