Kotli Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I've had the game for a few years (since A11). Back around A13-A14, a group of friends and myself would play nearly every day for hours- building and repairing our base for each horde night, and then working together to fend off the horde. It was fun, even when it was only me or another person and myself on. The game was challenging, but doable. It wasn't overcomplicated or bogged down by miscellaneous mechanics. I'm not as happy with the past few Alpha updates. Some of the changes are a lot of fun- enhanced building and crafting options, more building varieties in town, etc. But I think the past few updates since Alpha 16 have all pretty consistently had the same problem: the game isn't balanced well anymore. The player characters are glass cannons at best, and almost every single enemy now feels like a bullet sponge. I think due to complaints from some players, the devs have tried to up the "difficulty" of the game. But I think they've approached it the wrong way. The exciting part about the game before is that fighting one enemy, or even a small group, wasn't a problem. It was just a fact of life, a small challenge to keep the game exciting. But then, on horde nights or with wandering hordes, ♥♥♥♥ hit the fan. It was possible to fend them off, especially with a couple other players, but you definitely had to be careful and strategic if you wanted to make it through with minimal repairs after. You had to prepare. Nowadays, it seems like it's impossible to just fight off a horde by yourself, or even with another player, especially with multiple irradiated zombies. The only thing that sort of works for defense is a lot of the passive defences, but that takes the fun out of it. it doesn't feel like you're really defending your base, it feels like you're hiding out. And resources are much more plentiful, so it's easier to just repair after the fact than to actually fight. A lot of this is probably rambling, and i hope that now in A18 (which I haven't had a chance to try yet) some of these issues have been addressed. Or, at the very least, TFP are aware of the problem. I just wanted to speak up and say that maybe the direction where things have been developed are more of a step back than a step forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Roland Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 Welcome to the forum. Hopefully A18 will bring back some of the magic for you. Maybe there's a mod that will help you get the type of enemies you want. Sounds like maybe you want them to have lower HP in general but more of them. I know there is a mod that increases outdoor spawning but I'm not sure about one that reduces HP so that they aren't bullet sponges. If you end up hating the rage mechanic then you could turn difficulty down to lowest and then use the mod to increase number of zombies. That might be what does it for you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
vedrit Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 I've had the game for a few years (since A11). Back around A13-A14, a group of friends and myself would play nearly every day for hours- building and repairing our base for each horde night, and then working together to fend off the horde. It was fun, even when it was only me or another person and myself on. The game was challenging, but doable. It wasn't overcomplicated or bogged down by miscellaneous mechanics. I'm not as happy with the past few Alpha updates. Some of the changes are a lot of fun- enhanced building and crafting options, more building varieties in town, etc. But I think the past few updates since Alpha 16 have all pretty consistently had the same problem: the game isn't balanced well anymore. The player characters are glass cannons at best, and almost every single enemy now feels like a bullet sponge. I think due to complaints from some players, the devs have tried to up the "difficulty" of the game. But I think they've approached it the wrong way. The exciting part about the game before is that fighting one enemy, or even a small group, wasn't a problem. It was just a fact of life, a small challenge to keep the game exciting. But then, on horde nights or with wandering hordes, ♥♥♥♥ hit the fan. It was possible to fend them off, especially with a couple other players, but you definitely had to be careful and strategic if you wanted to make it through with minimal repairs after. You had to prepare. Nowadays, it seems like it's impossible to just fight off a horde by yourself, or even with another player, especially with multiple irradiated zombies. The only thing that sort of works for defense is a lot of the passive defences, but that takes the fun out of it. it doesn't feel like you're really defending your base, it feels like you're hiding out. And resources are much more plentiful, so it's easier to just repair after the fact than to actually fight. A lot of this is probably rambling, and i hope that now in A18 (which I haven't had a chance to try yet) some of these issues have been addressed. Or, at the very least, TFP are aware of the problem. I just wanted to speak up and say that maybe the direction where things have been developed are more of a step back than a step forward. I somewhat agree in that A17 and possibly A16 did not go in a direction I liked. But so far with A18, it's so much better. The game is fun again, and there's not as much grind as there used to be. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 You really have to try A18. I hated A17, but 18 is better in just about every way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 A18 feels extremely similar to A17 to me, other than Level gates removed from perks. What's this big difference that would make an A17 hater like it? I don't see it. A18 is A17 fleshed out a bit more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 A18 feels extremely similar to A17 to me, other than Level gates removed from perks. What's this big difference that would make an A17 hater like it? I don't see it. A18 is A17 fleshed out a bit more. For me the level gate removal and rebalancing of the perks made a HUGE difference. I don't feel forced to spend points in a certain way anymore. I'm free to save them up or spend them when and how I want depending on my needs/preferences. The other big game changer for me has been the addition of the books and schematics. There are so many of them to find and (some of) the books have such cool, unique effects that it motivates me to go out and find them. The fact that I can find schematics that save me points, again, giving me the freedom and flexibility to spend my points on what I want rather than feeling compelled to spend them in a certain way just to cover the basics makes me SO HAPPY. A smaller improvement is the AI. It's still not in a great spot, but I HATED the A17 AI with a burning passion. I'm a base builder and I hated the style of bases that A17 encouraged because of the conga line to the weak spot AI. Zeds still do some dumb stuff that I wish they wouldn't, but I can see progress there. Building/defending a base already feels much better to me than it did as things don't get wrecked instantly by the tiniest of hordes. The early game stamina changes and stamina management in general feels way better too. I remember standing around waiting unable to do stuff a lot in A17...avoiding upgrading my tools because I didn't have enough stamina to use them felt TERRIBLE. So far in A18, I haven't run into that at all. The stone axe phase was pretty painless because even though it sucks, you can swing it all day now. When I made the jump to iron and steel tools, I was a bit nervous, but pleasantly surprised when I didn't have any serious issues. Right now i've got a faulty steel axe and can cut down several trees in a stretch without running completely out of stamina and that's with only 1 point in Sex Rex. I also like the move to increase max stamina and HP based on level instead of having to spend on it. It gives a much more direct feeling of progression and getting srtronger, IMO. POI sleeper randomization is also a big plus for me. I hated how every damn POI in A17 was a dungeon slog. Now you've got some dungeons and some normal-ish houses with only a few zeds. I like not knowing how many zeds I'll find in a given building and actually having to check all the hiding spots rather than knowing that every single spot will be occupied every time. There might be more things, but that's what I've got off the top of my head. My only real complaint with A18 is lack of wandering hordes/outdoor random zeds, but I heard they're planning some encounter system to fix that, so I look forward to seeing how that works. Of course, it's still early going for me. Late game might bring about a whole host of issues, but so far the A18 experience has been 1000% better for me than A17. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted October 9, 2019 Share Posted October 9, 2019 My only real complaint with A18 is lack of wandering hordes/outdoor random zeds I agree 100% on that. I definitely think A18 is the best alpha to date, but then I REALLY liked A17. I just don't feel much difference between them. Haven't had a chance to study AI yet though. If they have removed zombies homing in on the weak spots and pathing round traps, then that would be a fantastic improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Oh, I almost forgot encumbrance. That pissed me off terribly in A17, but it's way better now. It's never going to be my favorite mechanic, but there are so many more ways to deal with it now in addtion to being less severe overall. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Psychodabble Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 Oh, and lockpicking. Love it. Nothing makes me feel roguish like picking a lock. That pro comes with a con though, because I can pick the locks on combination safes, but I can't open ANY DOORS?! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dan Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I always play single player for a few reasons. One, I don't like people. I also need to pause my game often, which you can only do in single player. And my internet connection sucks so much that I doubt I could even play on any server. That being said, I think the changes in A18 have really helped out single players like myself. It feels very balanced. I can specialize in whatever I want, yet still find schematics and books to gain other skills. The junk turrets don't do much damage, but they do help during a horde. It's like having a bunch of noobs with really crappy weapons and limited ammo trying to help you. I built a 4X4 which is such a game changer. You can get where you want to go faster, and can store a ton of items in it. No more running into a building and being overloaded and having to go back to your base to drop off items, you can just go out to your truck, throw it in and keep looting. Yes, I'm aware they had them in A17, but I hated A17 and didn't play long enough to ever build one. I probably spent about 20 hours playing A17 total. A18 has only been out a couple days and I'm probably close to that much time in it already. The truck also helps for me because the closest trader is 1.6km away, so when I'm ready to sell I can load up a lot of stuff and go. Which I haven't done yet, been going traderless so far. I also love the mods. My ak-47 has a double clip size and an 8x scope.. My spiked knuckles have a fire mod on them, so you can call me firefist now.. Okay, maybe not. But they are still badass. The only thing that bothers me so far is the parts.. If you want to make a shotgun, you need shotgun parts. You get shotgun parts by scrapping a shotgun. Ugh. Sorry, forgot what this topic was about. Just play A18, it might not look much different at first, but it's a huge update and makes the game really fun again. Okay, back to my game. It's day 20 and I've saw a radiated zombie in a poi.. Day 21 horde is gonna be a good challenge I think. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jysen Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 For me the level gate removal and rebalancing of the perks made a HUGE difference. I don't feel forced to spend points in a certain way anymore. I'm free to save them up or spend them when and how I want depending on my needs/preferences. The other big game changer for me has been the addition of the books and schematics. There are so many of them to find and (some of) the books have such cool, unique effects that it motivates me to go out and find them. The fact that I can find schematics that save me points, again, giving me the freedom and flexibility to spend my points on what I want rather than feeling compelled to spend them in a certain way just to cover the basics makes me SO HAPPY. A smaller improvement is the AI. It's still not in a great spot, but I HATED the A17 AI with a burning passion. I'm a base builder and I hated the style of bases that A17 encouraged because of the conga line to the weak spot AI. Zeds still do some dumb stuff that I wish they wouldn't, but I can see progress there. Building/defending a base already feels much better to me than it did as things don't get wrecked instantly by the tiniest of hordes. The early game stamina changes and stamina management in general feels way better too. I remember standing around waiting unable to do stuff a lot in A17...avoiding upgrading my tools because I didn't have enough stamina to use them felt TERRIBLE. So far in A18, I haven't run into that at all. The stone axe phase was pretty painless because even though it sucks, you can swing it all day now. When I made the jump to iron and steel tools, I was a bit nervous, but pleasantly surprised when I didn't have any serious issues. Right now i've got a faulty steel axe and can cut down several trees in a stretch without running completely out of stamina and that's with only 1 point in Sex Rex. I also like the move to increase max stamina and HP based on level instead of having to spend on it. It gives a much more direct feeling of progression and getting srtronger, IMO. POI sleeper randomization is also a big plus for me. I hated how every damn POI in A17 was a dungeon slog. Now you've got some dungeons and some normal-ish houses with only a few zeds. I like not knowing how many zeds I'll find in a given building and actually having to check all the hiding spots rather than knowing that every single spot will be occupied every time. There might be more things, but that's what I've got off the top of my head. My only real complaint with A18 is lack of wandering hordes/outdoor random zeds, but I heard they're planning some encounter system to fix that, so I look forward to seeing how that works. Of course, it's still early going for me. Late game might bring about a whole host of issues, but so far the A18 experience has been 1000% better for me than A17. Holy Hell, you basically just answered/confirmed every question/concern I had regarding A18 lol. While it was not meant for me, Im definitely still going to say thanks for that information with much appreciation lol. If they indeed increase world spawns back to at least normal, then they definitely would have my interest in upgrading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I HATED the A17 AI with a burning passion. I'm a base builder and I hated the style of bases that A17 encouraged because of the conga line to the weak spot AI. man, I had to check it wasnt my post, that sentence looks exactly like what I would have written You are clearly not complaining about the difficulty, but about the type of defenses it encouraged, which was exactly why I disliked it too. I am waiting for stable this time, so it's nice to hear you like the AI better in a18, considering you think exactly the same as me in that topic I also agree on every other concern about a17 you mention, like the POIs, so you likeing a18 sounds great. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khulkhuum Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 One thing i really like in A18 is the details. You go into an army garage and you see it is a garage. You see 2 trucks standing there, a big engine hanging from a ceiling, tool cabinets, tires stacked up as if ready to be put on wheels... In the same POI, barracks for troops. Beds lined up the walls with storage chests at the foot of each. At a different building (HQ) there was a computer room. Desks with lamps, PCs on them, chairs and some cabinets, etc. But the very best thing for this POI? There was a flag pole with a flag waving up high in the wind and making sounds. I went into a medical tent at an Army Camp. Sure, 3 Zs inside, but there were also medical beds (like in hospitals) strewn left and right, medical cabinets and i think even some monitors (but i can't remember now). Not to mention the piles of body bags outside, as if they wanted to burn them all (and perhaps some they did), but did not finish. Sure, standard "trash", basic animations or detailed textures on simple models. But it gives so much depth, it really feels that these POIs are real. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bhaaltazar Posted October 10, 2019 Share Posted October 10, 2019 I was hugely disappointed with A17, since A16 was awesome for me. But now I have to say that A18 feels just as awesome to when A16 was released. I like whole "abandoned" towns feel - like watching a movie- with a cool movie reminds me of a start of a good zombie movie Music really adds to the value now. Why would zombies be just wandering around in hordes, it makes no sense - people run away, hide etc... and died. So I like the idea that maybe you will uncover a nest of them in big POI, or wandering horde will come around from time to time, but to have them walking all over the land makes no sense and becomes hack and slash type of gameplay. One of things I didn't like in A17 - most of the time just repetitive meaningless fighting. over 6000 - 8000 kills usually by day 30 or so. Looting is great now, so many things to find, so many things to look for ( day 14 and I still haven't found a bicycle ), forge book... Brings back old memories when I was looking for forge book but have to play around that. Now you can simply invest a few points in perks... do what you want to suit your play style. With food poisoning I like it, though I would make cans of food to have a chance of spoilage ( dunno the lore of the game but how old are these cans - making fresh food wouldn't give you sickness its fresh!! - I like to cook in RL and it sickens me to think I would give me some sort of illness because of bad cooking with my fresh ingredients - canned food is old and should have a chance to spoil ) And the looting is awesome now - looting with crafting - make a pick. Not too hard not too easy, but just right IMO. I still need to see what endgame experience you get, so I will judge that once I will play through couple of times. The only thing I still don't like is the the perk leveling system, I think it either needs character creation ( to set the stats ) and spent points on perks later on as In fallout 4, or preferably I would like to play it with system similar to A16, but whole positives by far outweighs the cons ( specificaly perk system - I will learn to live with it ). With A18 I can again say the game is heading towards the right direction and I hope future content adding updates, more tweaks here and there, will bring game even closer to perfection - it already is a great game. But even if it doesn't I believe modders can add things that are "missing", This is one of top updates so far for me, on par with A16 - maybe even better. All the content and game itself - devs delivered big time so hats off for this update to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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