So I hear some of you are looking for bones...

[ricp]

Like all of us, I've fallen foul of the bones>glue>duct tape crafting process. I have managed to make ends meet using the trader, but I spotted a PoI I didn't recognise and found this...

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/4xipfoz.jpg )

 

...now this could be a new PoI for 17.2, or it might just have been new to 17, but I've got easily 100+ hours in A17 alone and it's the first time I've come across it. Of course it could be common knowledge and I'm just late to the party.

 

Here are some more screenshots:

 

Outside views:

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/1HALc8l.jpg )

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/uiQ2Yp5.jpg )

 

In the basement:

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/y9qsmg0.jpg )

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/j6IgUwP.jpg )

 

In the kitchen:

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/SiLXWXq.jpg )

[ricp]

What's more there is an absolute ton of loot, of all kinds including ammo, meds, food and tools plus 7 boars (mostly in the basement). There is even a well protected bunker with more bodies...

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/TSjeFtn.jpg )

 

...and below the bunker this "little" buddy...

 

( source: https://i.imgur.com/wCqAbSc.jpg )

 

I'll not lie, this place came as both a surprise and a total bonus in regard to my bone count however I can't shake the notion that useful as this PoI is it's just a bit OP. If you were to fresh spawn near this on Day 1, it would effectively give you everything you need to see you out well beyond the first couple of horde nights. There weren't even any ferals defending the place and I'm on a fairly high game stage and character level.

[Naz]

I just added a recipe to the chemistry station 1 coal + 10 wood = glue because wood glue i think it's balanced and makes sense and solves the glue problem.

[ricp]

I just added a recipe to the chemistry station 1 coal + 10 wood = glue because wood glue i think it's balanced and makes sense and solves the glue problem.

 

I really haven't run into any huge issues with the in game loot economy so I'm not going to deviate from the vanilla setup, unless of course it's an overhaul mod.

 

I also commented on another thread that if you wanted a lore suitable and "realistic" solution to the lack of glue (and thus duct tape) would be to allow plant based glues. You can make glue from tree resin or plant mucilage, both of which could be rolled into farming.

[RipClaw]

I had a few quests in carls corn and bobs boars in A17.0. In Navezgane this POI is located west of the Spillway Lake.

 

The best part in this POI is the super corn in the lab. If you are high enough in Living of the Land you can craft seeds from the corn and produce vast amounts of super corn. You can carry 500 super corn in one slot and each gives you 20 health and 20 stamina without any chance of food poisoning.

 

However the Doggos is the better source for bones in the long run. About 10 dogs are inside the building and on the roof in total. And they respawn every 5 days. The building itself is pretty small and easy to clear.

 

If I go to the Doggos I walk away with about 30-40 bones in my backpack. And a few bandages and shotgun shells lighter.

 

If you want to know if you have a Doggos on your map you can search for business_old_07 in the prefabs.xml file.

[ricp]

The doggos is the better source for bones in the long run. About 10 dogs are inside the building and on the roof in total. And they respawn every 5 days. The building itself is pretty small and easy to clear.

 

If I go to the doggos I walk away with about 30-40 bones in my backpack. And a few bandages and shotgun shells lighter.

 

Certainly in terms of a sustainable resource something that will respawn dogs is the way to go. That said, it's not a competition here, I was just surprised to see a PoI I'd never encountered before and for that PoI to be absolutely stuffed to the gunnels with not just loot but lots of bones too - something people were finding an issue with (not me, but some others).

 

I did a quick count at the time. Not including the boars (or the big f'ing boar in the bunker) I collected 65 bones using my axe on the corpses littered about. I have a few perks so that will always affect the exact outcome of what you get, but I would wager it's better than Doggos - albeit not a sustainable resource.

[RipClaw]

I did a quick count at the time. Not including the boars (or the big f'ing boar in the bunker) I collected 65 bones using my axe on the corpses littered about. I have a few perks so that will always affect the exact outcome of what you get, but I would wager it's better than Doggos - albeit not a sustainable resource.

 

Another place with a lot of corpses is a little shotgun messiah which is part of a larger business strip. But since the corpses give you at best 2 bones you get not that much out of this place.

 

If you use tricks like respawn, bones are sufficient for a single player even if he needs a lot of glue/ducktape for his playstyle. For multiplayers the lack is to be felt as Ghostlight has written in another post.

 

Generally I think it's a pity that you have to use such tricks to have enough bones. In A16 you would never have dreamed that bones could ever be something that is scarce.

[ricp]

Generally I think it's a pity that you have to use such tricks to have enough bones. In A16 you would never have dreamed that bones could ever be something that is scarce.

 

Personally I feel using any "trick" is akin to cheating. MP or SP, it doesn't matter, the game offers you a challenge. Using tricks is you failing at matching that challenge.

 

That statement could come across as somewhat elitist, or even perhaps inflammatory, but it's really not intended that way. There are bottlenecks in the crafting process, but none so bad as they are insurmountable.

 

You could argue that the xml and other things like mod/modlets allow you to alter the way the game plays, and that's true; there are and they do. It's not vanilla though, and it's not the vanilla challenge.

[ktr]

I've yet to see this POI in RWG, but I did play with some friends in the Navezgane map during A17 experimental. They went to the POI while I was mining. The screaming that came when they got interrupted by a mini hoard and were getting pummeled by pigs and the zombies was pretty epic.

[RipClaw]

Personally I feel using any "trick" is akin to cheating. MP or SP, it doesn't matter, the game offers you a challenge. Using tricks is you failing at matching that challenge.

 

I don't think that was meant to be a challenge. The lack of bone resulted from the fact that you can't harvest the corpses anymore. And as a reaction to postings these roadkills were introduced first and now madmole is thinking about the vultures, rabbits and snakes that might give bones in the future.

I've also never read that the developers have written that bone should be rare. Therefore it can be just an unintended consequence.

 

As far as the respawn is concerned, I don't see it as a cheat since all zombies are spawning new and, above all, always suitable for the respective gamestage. So you have no advantage if you go again and again into the same POI.

 

Sometimes you even have to go into the same POI multiple times for other reasons. For example, I currently have 4 quests open in a single POI. This is because there are not so many tier 5 quest POIs on the map.

[ricp]

I don't think that was meant to be a challenge.

 

As any developer will tell you, you can have knock on effects from changes made. The reason to remove the gore blocks was to reduce lag, and while there is still a lot of work to do in that area you have to applaud them for taking bold steps to enhance the game experience.

 

While that has affected the number of bones available, and yes the random gore blocks were introduced for that very reason, but in this playthrough I've had to travel 11km to get to my first trader (heh, don't you just love RNG?) and during that trip I have collected over 200 bones just from the road gore blocks.

 

To me that suggests the resources are available if people are willing to put in the effort, and the complaints from people demonstrates they are unwilling to adapt to the new environment A17 provides - and that is one where bones are not the most plentiful resource.

 

As far as the respawn is concerned, I don't see it as a cheat since all zombies are spawning new and, above all, always suitable for the respective gamestage. So you have no advantage if you go again and again into the same POI.

 

Well let's be clear here, there is an advantage to repeated visits to a PoI, but what I will say is that I thought you were meaning another way of forcing a respawn as opposed to a "natural" respawn. Simply down to the way the game works and how people would like to play it, it makes sense for things to respawn. I'd like to see that time limit increased somewhat, not 2 weeks but more like 4 or 6 weeks. That forces you out of your comfort zone.

 

 

That said, with RNG it's just luck of the draw at times. One new map I created ended up having 3 traders within a 1km radius, each one having a mix of working forges, workbenches, chemistry stations and cement mixers. To me, having those things in a completely indestructible environment, is way beyond OP - especially for a Day 1 player - and is a far bigger problem to game progression than loot respawning. If traders do have these facilities then you should pay to use them, either that or remove them from traders altogether.

 

Sometimes you even have to go into the same POI multiple times for other reasons. For example, I currently have 4 quests open in a single POI. This is because there are not so many tier 5 quest POIs on the map.

 

Only with quests, that is only time you have to visit a PoI multliple times. Every other repeat visit is because you want to not because you need to. The quests really need some work and balancing, but that's stating the obvious.

[ricp]

I've yet to see this POI in RWG

 

Yeah, this was definitely RWG, and as I say it was the first time I'd seen the PoI.

 

It's entirely possible I've blithely ignored it in the past while others have been raving about it already.

[RipClaw]

I'd like to see that time limit increased somewhat, not 2 weeks but more like 4 or 6 weeks. That forces you out of your comfort zone.

 

The time limit is 5 days in POIs according to XML and that also corresponds to my experiences.

 

And as far as the comfort zone is concerned, at the moment you have the problem anyway that you have the same buildings everywhere on the map. If you only have 200 radio towers and 100 waterworks on the map then you are lucky.

[canadianbluebeer]

over 2k paper from the papermill. (business_old_08)

 

all in the rolls on the first floor. doggos and butcher petes nearby in navez.

 

Carls Corn /Bobs Boars... also gives a crapton of meat don't forget. Tier 3 quest. (been trying to get that again)

[ricp]

The time limit is 5 days in POIs according to XML and that also corresponds to my experiences.

 

Traders and vending machines can respawn/restock quicker but I thought for general loot (ie: cupboards, etc) it's 14 days. While I'm not disputing your claim I find 5 days to be so short as to be pointless, just have them auto-restock once emptied. That would provide no challenge at all of course, but then imo neither does a 5 day respawn cycle.

 

And as far as the comfort zone is concerned, at the moment you have the problem anyway that you have the same buildings everywhere on the map. If you only have 200 radio towers and 100 waterworks on the map then you are lucky.

 

Why should that matter, there is noting in the water works or radio towers PoIs that you can't find anywhere else on the map. This is meant to be a post apocalyptic world, not a trip down the local shops. Finding resources should be hard, bloody hard, in fact (imo) it should be much harder than vanilla has it set to. I don't buy into this notion that a hard game puts new players off. Inconsistent design and game breaking lag puts new players off.

[HungryZombie]

You need to keep in mind the people not happy with the amount of bones are looking for 1000's of bones a week. No POI is going to satisfy them.

[ricp]

You can carry 500 super corn in one slot and each gives you 20 health and 20 stamina without any chance of food poisoning.

 

Forgive me for going back a few replies as I meant to ask you about the corn.

 

I've grabbed all the super corn from that PoI (I think 8?) and I intend on farming it later on - I've not started with the farming perks yet - however aside from cooking it alone, can it be used like normal corn in recipes and if so does their "super-ness" add to it?

[Cirion]

You need to keep in mind the people not happy with the amount of bones are looking for 1000's of bones a week. No POI is going to satisfy them.

 

This. I get that some people have playstyles that involve "Big" builds, and I get that, I do, I like big bases too and thinking big in general. But I think it is crazy to expect to be able to do this in vanilla 7D2D. Swallow your pride and adjust the sliders and/or use mods as necessary.

 

If it were possible to get 1000's of bones a game week (at least on vanilla 7d2d) then we might as well start giving bones out for free.

[RipClaw]

Forgive me for going back a few replies as I meant to ask you about the corn.

 

I've grabbed all the super corn from that PoI (I think 8?) and I intend on farming it later on - I've not started with the farming perks yet - however aside from cooking it alone, can it be used like normal corn in recipes and if so does their "super-ness" add to it?

 

No. At the moment there are no recipes for super corn yet. The only thing you can do with the super corn is eat it.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Traders and vending machines can respawn/restock quicker but I thought for general loot (ie: cupboards, etc) it's 14 days. While I'm not disputing your claim I find 5 days to be so short as to be pointless, just have them auto-restock once emptied. That would provide no challenge at all of course, but then imo neither does a 5 day respawn cycle.

 

The default loot respawn cycle is 20 days. The zombies respawn every 5 days and so are the zombie dogs at buildings like doggos.

 

You can lower the respawn cycle for loot down to 5 days in the options or rise is up to, I believe, 60 days. You can even choose that loot should never respawn. Some players always play with no loot respawn.

 

The zombie respawn can not be changed in the options but it would not be hard to create a modlet to set the respawn to a much higher number.

[ricp]

This. I get that some people have playstyles that involve "Big" builds, and I get that, I do, I like big bases too and thinking big in general. But I think it is crazy to expect to be able to do this in vanilla 7D2D. Swallow your pride and adjust the sliders and/or use mods as necessary.

 

I only play SP so for me big builds are a thing of late game, but I'm not sure if it's "crazy" to expect to do it in vanilla. In regard to the resources, personally I welcome the change, it's the classic "Improvise, Adapt, Overcome" isn't it? I'd understand if the finite amount of a resource was crucially low, but it's clearly not.

 

 

The default loot respawn cycle is 20 days. The zombies respawn every 5 days and so are the zombie dogs at buildings like doggos. You can lower the respawn cycle for loot down to 5 days in the options or you can choose that loot should never respawn.

 

Right so that's where the confusion comes from, it's not the same respawn rates for all content. Makes sense I suppose, you would want zombies reappearing in PoIs after a while. 20 days for the loot (I had thought it was 14) is still a bit low imo.

 

Thanks for the info about the corn. I didn't even realise that super corn was a thing until I spotted the corn was behind glass. I just thought it was a dev having a bit of fun with the PoI and almost never checked it.

[RipClaw]

If it were possible to get 1000's of bones a game week (at least on vanilla 7d2d) then we might as well start giving bones out for free.

 

In A16 and before it was possible to get 1000's of bones a game week in vanilla. You didn't get them for free. You had to fight zombie and then harvest them. That was work and the pay was bones, fat and rotten meat. You could also simply let the remains of the zombies despawn.

[Cirion]

In A16 and before it was possible to get 1000's of bones a game week in vanilla. You didn't get them for free. You had to fight zombie and then harvest them. That was work and the pay was bones, fat and rotten meat. You could also simply let the remains of the zombies despawn.

 

True, but Roland & Dev's have explicitly said that the ability to farm that many bones was NOT intended. I forget the exact quote, but I read it a few weeks ago from them.

 

But I get that it's a playstyle you may enjoy, and others may enjoy. People hate the "just mod it" card, but I think it applies here.

 

I get it, not having your playstyle on vanilla sucks. Trust me, I get this better than most people even. I hate that LBD is a thing of the past. I'm done whining about it, because it won't come back. I will just mod it.

[ricp]

I believe the gore blocks were removed to help performance so the question is simple; would people prefer more bones and worse lag during hordes, or a better horde experience and a little bit of work to get bones.

 

I know where I fall down, and it's not for the return of gore blocks.

[Roland]

I believe the gore blocks were removed to help performance so the question is simple; would people prefer more bones and worse lag during hordes, or a better horde experience and a little bit of work to get bones.

 

I know where I fall down, and it's not for the return of gore blocks.

 

That choice won't have to be made. The devs have already stated that they plan to make bones more granular like they did meat. Instead of a femur it will just be called "bone" (although I like "bone fragments").

 

Then they will be able to make it so you get something like 3-5 bone from snakes, chickens, vultures, rabbits and 6-10 bones from dogs, wolves, boars, and deer, and 11-15 bones from bears and then a certain amount from gore piles and garbage. Then they will adjust the glue recipe accordingly.

 

This will help the perks that increase bone harvesting to actually work properly and it should make modding the scarcity or bounty of bones easier to control depending on your preferences.

[HungryZombie]

Just add bones to the loot table of zombies as well and *BAM* reason to fight zombies is back!