Quests that make you "Stay within" to complete (Or not fail because you didn't)

[OnlyMeiya]

Would be nice to have a little breathing room to deal with multiple radiated zeds and exploding cops without having to stay so close to the house, I don't get why that has to impact my ability to complete a quest for finding something for a fetch quest when im just forced into a zombie Arena anyway, I may as well stick to the digging quests and the ones that force me to clear them minus the extra step of finding an item.

 

Can you extend the radius for the "Stay within" borders, and is there a way to show where that border is so I know where I can and cannot kite through to deal with the 6 radiated zeds and cops that liter the everywhere?

 

I don't really like that I'm forced to deal with them in an unsafer manner and kiting them all out of the house to kill them should be a tactic if the games AI is going to make them all flock to you instantly anyway.

[SurvivalUK]

If you're happy with modding / editing XML the radius settings are in quests.xml.

 

For example;

	<objective type="POIStayWithin">
		<property name="phase" value="3" />
		<property name="radius" value="25" />

 

this would work in a modlet;

<set xpath="/quests/quest/objective[@type='POIStayWithin']/property[@name='radius']/@value">50</set>

[OnlyMeiya]

Modding XML really feels like cheating to me when it comes to certain things.

[SurvivalUK]

Modding XML really feels like cheating to me when it comes to certain things.

Then stay within the radius

[myrkana]

Modding XML really feels like cheating to me when it comes to certain things.

Half the challenge is that you cant leave the radius. Otherwise you could kite them forever or back out and heal if you get injured. Being stuck in the radius means you have to use what you have on you to clear the poi and or find the item inside.

 

 

 

Btw editing xmls is in no way cheating. It's like downloading a mod on minecraft. It let's the user customize their game to make it more fun for them and to fit their need

[OnlyMeiya]

Half the challenge is that you cant leave the radius. Otherwise you could kite them forever or back out and heal if you get injured. Being stuck in the radius means you have to use what you have on you to clear the poi and or find the item inside.

 

 

 

Btw editing xmls is in no way cheating. It's like downloading a mod on minecraft. It let's the user customize their game to make it more fun for them and to fit their need

 

Then the challenge doesn't fit the Tier 1/Tier2 status because having 6+ radiated and other feral zed floodling/zerg you the moment you step foot in isn't worth the measly dukes you get for that since the POI's spawn based on your gamestage score and not the difficulty of the quest itself.

 

You still need to be able to out DPS radiated zed healing so if you endlessly kite without dealing damage you effectively stalemate till you make a mistake and the zeds get you.

 

Btw editing xmls is in no way cheating. It's like downloading a mod on minecraft. It let's the user customize their game to make it more fun for them and to fit their need

 

I disagree with you on this depending on what you're changing, for what reason, and how large the change is.

[Exxodous]

Then the challenge doesn't fit the Tier 1/Tier2 status because having 6+ radiated and other feral zed floodling/zerg you the moment you step foot in isn't worth the measly dukes you get for that since the POI's spawn based on your gamestage score and not the difficulty of the quest itself.

 

You still need to be able to out DPS radiated zed healing so if you endlessly kite without dealing damage you effectively stalemate till you make a mistake and the zeds get you.

 

 

 

I disagree with you on this depending on what you're changing, for what reason, and how large the change is.

 

I'm kind of curious what difference it makes if TFP makes the change to the radius or you do in regards to it feeling like cheating?

 

Not a flame or anything but asking them to change a value from X to (some other value) based on your feelings it is too narrow has the same net effect as if you changed it or added the mod shown in this thread. I assume that if you make the change it feels like your not playing the way the game was intended? I'd counter that if they changed it themselves it would not be as intended either since they already gave it a value.

 

Again, just curious as to your thoughts on the matter.

[Morloc]

Does that radius also govern the "reset" radius when you activate a quest marker?

 

 

-Morloc

[Jackelmyer]

Then stay within the radius

 

Or stuff it with modding as the solution to everything. People want a good out of the box game. Not a set of tinker toys.

 

Pffft

[OnlyMeiya]

I'm kind of curious what difference it makes if TFP makes the change to the radius or you do in regards to it feeling like cheating?

 

Not a flame or anything but asking them to change a value from X to (some other value) based on your feelings it is too narrow has the same net effect as if you changed it or added the mod shown in this thread. I assume that if you make the change it feels like your not playing the way the game was intended? I'd counter that if they changed it themselves it would not be as intended either since they already gave it a value.

 

Again, just curious as to your thoughts on the matter.

 

That means if they decide to change it, it means it was looked at and discussed and then changed to reflect how it feels in game and weather or not the previous setting was to small or too large, or they feel its just right and they don't need to change it, not all things are ever 100% thought out or perfect.

 

That's the point of discussing these topics, its feedback. If lots of people feel the same, its looked into eventually.

 

If you just don't like something and mod out of it because you suck at the game or edit core game files to give you an advantage, that's cheating.

 

Or stuff it with modding as the solution to everything.

 

This definitely. the "Mod it" answer is becoming a grossly overused rhetoric people are starting to fall back on out of laziness.

 

Its one thing to mod the game with actual mods to make the games core design feel like a completely new adventure to the same game, almost like a sequel made by the fans.

 

(Like Zelda Outlands)

 

Or by adding in a mod that allows you to see an HP bar above enemy heads, or adding in floating damage or scrolling combat text, or something that shows you the loot respawn timer ect,those are examples of mods.

 

 

Its another to modify values because you're bad at the game.

[Kam R.]

I think the area restriction, though kinda cheap is okay the way it is. As myrkana pointed out, it's part of the challenge to use everything available in the immediate environment. Personally I've come to the conclusion that going in with a handful of spikes and frames is a neccessary part of dungeon-prep. They become your best friends.

 

There is already a visual indication of when you're about to leave the zone at the top right of the screen. Just have to have the quest active. And it's not too hard to get an eye for where a POI's boundaries are.

 

 

I do however agree that the challenges can grossly outmatch the rewards. Be it in the context of quests or just free-looting.

 

At the moment you can get a "tier 3" quest that's quickly done, gets you a handful of hard enemies to deal with and then a loot room with 4-5 regular crates flooded with goodies and then another equally designated "tier 3 quest" taking place in a much larger location, flooded with radiated ferals and having a loot room with a shiny, big, special looking chest making you think "Oh wow first time I've seen one of these – This must be some awesome loot. This was worth it! Time to crack this 2500 hp sucker open..." –Only to find a handful of bullets in it.

How can this be considered "tiered"? It's too much of a RNG-gambling aspect in a place where it just feels like it doesn't belong.

 

In the future I'd love to see a difficulty/reward progression system that's entirely location based.

Big location, hard to navigate, hard zombies - top loot!

Small location, normal Zs - mostly low tier stuff, no mods, but a decent possibility to slowly build up the ammo/resources stock to prepare for harder locations in the future.

And anything inbetween the two on an actually granular scale. And available from day 1 on.

 

And therefore the player would be enabled to freely choose how big of a challenge to engage in.

Gamestage should only be the tool to continuously increase challenge on the homefront and on horde nights and completely be disconnected from POI raids.

 

This would of course require both a more differentiated set of loot tables as well as enemy group definitions.

They took the time to design all these awesome new POI – Time they start to design proper gameplay around them and not fall back to easy one-size-fits-all solutions anymore!

 

 

 

Does that radius also govern the "reset" radius when you activate a quest marker?

 

No, reset happens exclusively on the POI's physical territory.

[zackss]

I'm not entirely sure that the "Stay Within" requirement is intended to do much more than making you complete it in one session, so I don't see much being lost with a larger radius, but if you're immediately getting mobbed by 6 radiated ferals when you enter the house you may want to reconsider how you're entering the house.

[OnlyMeiya]

I'm not entirely sure that the "Stay Within" requirement is intended to do much more than making you complete it in one session, so I don't see much being lost with a larger radius, but if you're immediately getting mobbed by 6 radiated ferals when you enter the house you may want to reconsider how you're entering the house.

 

Sneak in, pop an arrow inside one's head then you have 6 behind you lol.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Answer is not so simple anymore

 

Answer is not so simple anymore

 

Onlymeiya:

Here may be a partial explanation regarding situation,tis by no means offered as an absolute, but is what ive learned

so far playing the alphas and also from modding.

 

The quest is Poi based, Search forum, there are many complaints all worded differently, but repeating the same thing.

Engage a poi, since sleepers have been enacted, the code itself is proximity dependent. The proximity, as tested, and

proven, by Faatal and others, is approx 30meters. Disclaimer the number is my user guesstimate not an absolute.

 

Go beyond it and you risk resetting the fastmovers and spitters almost to infinity, which I think, though may be wrong,

will probably be more stressful than the limited perimeter.

 

How ive seen other game do this. Scenario controlled spawn, in normally active area, to allow for specific task to be

attempted "RPG in the Sand". Closed field game, you can see other areas but cant get there, unless you pass through,

a gate, a magic portal, or other limiting device. Then cutscene or blank screen and or saving screen with an indicator.

Whats really happening, artificed left hand magic. 30 second Unload/reload to play the next closed loop of a game to

progress. in a16 do F1 DM F3 and watch the data flow, it will explain better than I can. everything is active, and on,

all the time, in this game. The closest this game ever comes to slowing to the point of a closed loop game is, Horde

night, and the written word here expresses the basic sentiment behind that at the moment.

 

Advancing the sensitivity awareness, ive tested and seen result of that, have to F1 DM F3 for on screen names and process

analysis to see it happen. This will ativate not only the Poi you are in but oter area spawners, which becomes like,

"A Horde in the Box" scenario creepy music and all. So lesser of two evils. Providing new test enviro while sitrep and

recon allow for a more suitable solution. This was my modification I called it "the Flood". To compensate for my

personal visual volume and activity.

 

TFP moment for clarity. @Alpha# - Alpha16.4b8. Pathing is Dumb, no challenge,sucks. Thousands of individual posts all

writing the same thing. Enter Faatal or Faatality you pick the Moniker. A* pathing limited, explained on forum, Observed

by Faatal reworked to be dif in this game, which is depenent on Unity engine. Which is strong, always in flux, always

improving, but not always backward compatible Faatal basically reverse engineered the process that has been a dragNdrop

thing for a while. Result of confab, Ai that can find you in a 3d environment. To the point of pissing some off.

 

Issues I've observed that the TFP staff of Today face. Its not all the same people from beginning. Just read the credits

for proof. Multiple genre, open world, fully destructable and "Rebuildable" and fully customizable to create a personal

experience. All Based on a Unity engine. explained briefly above. Apps on your pc laptop and or tablet and smart phone

must follow the rule and limitation of "The OS". Same for the game. plus Leftover conflictual code. a16 if you read it

like a book looked like 4 people with their own thoughts wrote it and never conferred with each other. Kin opened the

ability to make your own visual, no small feat.

 

a modding blurb, I mod, didnt in beginning, i mod to show off visual capabilities of environment, I mod to enhance my

game play experience, I dont mod to make it a sesame street counting game. Vanilla is good, but cant please all the

players and all the genres simultaneously. A person buys a car, AM/FM radio 10.5 watts Rms per channel. Sell same car

to 100 people, some will be content good luck with that, some will get a new car losing tradein value once off lot,

others will change POS sound system to play Jazz, and include a spectrum analyzer to adapt to playing rock, rap, and Trap.

 

Sliders and lights buttons bells and whistles are great. But i was a tech, and one thing i learned was the placebo affect,

A person wants to be an Admin in a controlled environment, allow it and chaos shall ensue. Then same person will call you

to fix their issue or its your fault because you the tech are inept. Result we created a user group called

"Idee_Zero_Ten_Tee_Admin" and assigned their name and explained it was a special designation for tracing promoted admins.

It was a user with the right to a personal folder group. So modding allows you to see your result.

 

Personally all i ever ask for is options, the option to play as I want to play today, and the option to play differently

tomorrow. Im in a growing minority. The rest is circumstancial edits. But some people and their 10.5 watts, and the others

with their Idee_Zero_Ten_Tee_Admin ids, that appreciate the built in cup holder, are a majority.

 

After reading a few of your posts, especially the PVP subject. I thought you might like an entire attempt an answer, not dependent

on Rhetoric, or popping in, or saying go mod. but must apologize for original wall, edited formatting, and used your post as a template

1/2 yours. should be acceptable now.

[OnlyMeiya]

Onlymeiya:

 

Here may be a partial explanation regarding situation,

tis by no means offered as an absolute, but is what ive

learned so far playing the alphas and also from modding.

 

The quest is Poi based, Search forum, there are many

complaints all worded differently, but repeating the same

thing. Engage a poi, since sleepers have been enacted,

the code itself is proximity dependent. The proximity, as

tested, and proven, by Faatal and others, is approx 30meters.

Disclaimer the number is my user guesstimate not an absolute.

 

Go beyond it and you risk resetting the fastmovers and

spitters almost to infinity, which I think, though may

be wrong, will probably be more stressful than the limited

perimeter.

 

How ive seen other game do this. Scenario controlled spawn,

in normally active area, to allow for specific task to be

attempted "RPG in the Sand". Closed field game, you can see

other areas but cant get there, unless you pass through, a gate,

a magic portal, or other limiting device. Then cutscene or

blank screen and or saving screen with an indicator. Whats

really happening, artificed left hand magic. 30 secong

Unload/reload to play the next closed loop of a game to

progress. in a16 do F1 DM F3 and watch the data flow, it will

explain better than I can. everything is active, and on,

all the time, in this game. The closest this game ever comes to

slowing to the point of a closed loop game is, Horde night,

and the written word here expresses the basic sentiment behind that

at the moment.

 

Advancing the sensitivity awareness, ive tested

and seen result of that, have to F1 DM F3 for on screen names

and process analysis to see it happen. This will ativate not

only the Poi you are in but oter area spawners, which becomes

like, "A Horde in the Box" scenario creepy music and all. So

lesser of two evils. Providing new test enviro while sitrep and

recon allow for a more suitable solution. This was my modification

I called it "the Flood". To compensate for my personal visual

volume and activity.

 

TFP moment for clarity. @Alpha# - Alpha16.4b8. Pathing is Dumb,

no challenge,sucks. Thousands of individual posts all writing the same

thing. Enter Faatal or Faatality you pick the Moniker. A* pathing

limited, explained on forum, Observed by Faatal reworked to be dif

in this game, which is depenent on Unity engine. Which is strong,

always in flux, always improving, but not always backward compatible

Faatal basically reverse engineered the process that has been a

dragNdrop thing for a while. Result of confab, Ai that can find you

in a 3d environment. To the point of pissing some off.

 

Issues I've observed that the TFP staff of Today face. Its not

all the same people from beginning. Just read the credits for proof.

Multiple genre, open world, fully destructable and "Rebuildable" and

fully customizable to create a personal experience.

All Based on a Unity engine. explained briefly above. Apps on your pc

laptop and or tablet and smart phone must follow the rule and

limitation of "The OS". Same for the game. plus Leftover conflictual

code. a16 if you read it like a book looked like 4 people with their

own thoughts wrote it and never conferred with each other. Kin opened

the ability to make your own visual, no small feat.

 

a modding blurb, I mod, didnt in beginning, i mod to show off

visual capabilities of environment, I mod to enhance my game play

experience, I dont mod to make it a sesame street counting game.

Vanilla is good, but cant please all the players and all the genres

simultaneously. A person buys a car, AM/FM radio 10.5 watts Rms per

channel. Sell same car to 100 people, some will be content good luck

with that, some will get a new car losing tradein value once off lot,

others will change POS sound system to play Jazz, and include a

spectrum analyzer to adapt to playing rock, rap, and Trap.

 

Sliders and lights buttons bells and whistles are great.

But i was a tech, and one thing i learned was the placebo affect, A

person wants to be an Admin in a controlled environment, allow it and

chaos shall ensue. Then same person will call you to fix their issue or

its your fault because you the tech are inept. Result we created a user

group called "Idee_Zero_Ten_Tee_Admin" and assigned their name and explained

it was a special designation for tracing promoted admins. It was a user

with the right to a personal folder group. So modding allows you to see

your result.

 

Personally all i ever ask for is options, the option to play as I want

to play today, and the option to play differently tomorrow. Im in a growing

minority. The rest is circumstancial edits. But some people and their

10.5 watts, and the others with their Idee_Zero_Ten_Tee_Admin ids,

that appreciate the built in cup holder, are a majority.

 

I am by no means reading any of this wall of text.

[4sheetzngeegles]

Abridged version

 

I admit verbose above, but putting approx 10 plus styles

with their specific rules in one game is not as easy as.

 

1 quest is POI based

2 Is proximity based because of Code rules

3 Proximity approx 30 meters

4 beyond that resets to full house, infinite

5 Game environ is open, all active all the time

6 Closed loop game is opposite and limits instancing

and playable assets, till condition met.

7 Closest attempt in game to closed loop is

Horde night. All shut down except the spawner.

8 Mod is changing variable, for personal feel.

9 Vanilla is TFP written code, getting them to change

is Modding it to personal taste. only dif is Player

requests them to change it instead of changing for self.

Mod is accepted shortening of Modification, not meant as

cheat.

[canadianbluebeer]

Get a bigger f'n gun.

That one is too small.

 

hee-hee.

 

(don't forget the chocolate and coffee btw)

 

(I upped the damage on the guns, and made a machine for just this reason. Takes too long otherwise on radiated zeds)

[Exxodous]

That means if they decide to change it, it means it was looked at and discussed and then changed to reflect how it feels in game and weather or not the previous setting was to small or too large, or they feel its just right and they don't need to change it, not all things are ever 100% thought out or perfect.

 

That's the point of discussing these topics, its feedback. If lots of people feel the same, its looked into eventually.

 

I can understand this point of view, thank you for explaining your thought process

 

If you just don't like something and mod out of it because you suck at the game or edit core game files to give you an advantage, that's cheating.

 

This definitely. the "Mod it" answer is becoming a grossly overused rhetoric people are starting to fall back on out of laziness.

 

Its one thing to mod the game with actual mods to make the games core design feel like a completely new adventure to the same game, almost like a sequel made by the fans.

 

(Like Zelda Outlands)

 

Or by adding in a mod that allows you to see an HP bar above enemy heads, or adding in floating damage or scrolling combat text, or something that shows you the loot respawn timer ect,those are examples of mods.

 

Its another to modify values because you're bad at the game.

 

Or stuff it with modding as the solution to everything. People want a good out of the box game. Not a set of tinker toys.

 

Pffft

 

@Jackelmyer

 

It is true that many people want a good game without having to tinker with it. There are also more than a few of us who enjoy the game "because" we get to tinker with it. I think a lot of modders find as much enjoyment from that as they do actually playing the game

 

@OnlyMeiya

 

To call modifying the game "cheating" because you suck (lol) may be a little unfair. To me it is perfectly reasonable for a person to mod a game (that is intended to be moddable) to suits ones preferences, regardless if it's care bear or hardcore. If TFP wanted us to only play the default game there wouldn't be options in the menu or xml files.

 

That is why I suggested changing it to better suit your preferences. I also understand why you do not want to. It's also a good discussion to have to balance it for those who do not wish to mod.

[Roland]

Or stuff it with modding as the solution to everything. People want a good out of the box game. Not a set of tinker toys.

 

Pffft

 

And who's to say the currently set borders don't make a good out of the box game? Your description sounds like you are power leveling to get good abilities but don't yet have the gear. Gamestage is designed to ramp up the challenge if you are ramping up your character level. If the challenge becomes too great for you and you die then gamestage is reduced-- hopefully to a level you can handle.

 

The game can be played any way you want. I'm glad that those who want to level up quickly have a means to do so. Just stop complaining about what your choice brings or mod the game to fit what you enjoy doing. The game is balanced around a slow and steady progression. If you are going to bend that you are going to encounter imbalances. In this case the imbalance has a rectifying mechanic. You die and your gamestage reduces. So there are those who can bend the progression to being faster and they can handle the consequences and there are those who bend the progression and they can't handle the consequences. Modding sounds to be the good solution here.

 

If you want to get past the early game then it is better to change the reward for the starter quest from 4 points to 20 points. That way you can perk out of the annoying things that make the early game tedious for you and it doesn't affect your gamestage because you will still be a level one character. Without the need to quickly level up, your quests should remain clear of radiated zombies until you have reached the point where you can handle them.

 

The border is a requirement of a stay in the area quest. Expand the border so you can kite them down the street and it is no longer a stay in the area quest.