[Horde Mode]

I guess it has something to do with the fact that someday we'll get bandits

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

42 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:

"According to the US Census Bureau, the median US household income in 2020 was $67,521. To make that much per year on Twitch, assuming you aren't bringing in money from sources not included in this data, you'd have to be one of Twitch's top 1,322 streamers right now. There are around 8.8 million active streamers on Twitch (via Twitch Tracker), which means you'd need to be in the top 0.015% of all streamers to make the median US household income from direct Twitch streaming revenue. Some of the streamers at that level are live every day of the week for sessions that last anywhere from 2 to 12 hours."

https://www.pcgamer.com/twitch-streamer-income-leak/

I didn't know that all streamers live in the USA, in a country with one of the highest average income in the world

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

43 minutes ago, outhous said:

Yeah because 20 full alphas & however many patch updates just shows the devs sit around playing Pinochle and watching old zombie movies.🤨

Do you think so?

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Really?  Because the whole thing you had was against 7D2D streamers which I don't think you even know much about them.  I mean, come on, the whole beef you had was a perceived slight that you had that 7D2D streamers were delaying the game for everyone else.

I really thought everyone's release was delayed because of them. But people argue that TFP would never release on Friday because they don't want to do hotfixes over the weekend

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

You painted a broad brush against streamers, then try to make it as if you weren't being toxic to them by pointing out that you used things like 95% or most.  It's like you went into attack mode against them, then try to act like you are the victim because people are pointing out what you said.

I didn't attack, I was setting out the facts. I didn't gave up on my words, most streamers do this with the hope of making easy money in the first place. Especially those who buy bot subscriptions.

2 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Heck, you even went after people that watch streamers at one point.

Yeah, watch how some mediocrity plays the game you've been waiting for 1.5 years, instead of playing yourself 😂

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

4 hours ago, KhaineGB said:

I work 2 jobs, 9-5, 7 days a week (for one) and 5 days a week for about an hour (for the other).

And i'm in the streamer list.

I also know several in that list who ALSO work 9-5.

So.... might wanna calm that down a bit there bud.

EDIT: Oh, and I also work on DF, and Romero Mod, and making sure my modlets are up to date, along with making videos so I could hit that 5k sub count... and voluteer at a cat rescue...

  I will only give two excerpts from the text you quoted.

On 11/10/2021 at 9:49 PM, bachgaman said:

most

On 11/10/2021 at 9:49 PM, bachgaman said:

But even if it is not, then it does not matter at all in the essence of my statement that 95% of working / studying people will have to wait for the next weekend

Also, obviously, I was talking about full time streamers, for whom this is a salary, and not about hobby streamers.

2 hours ago, KhaineGB said:

I cheat. Both my jobs are work from home

Carer for my disabled wife (so cooking, cleaning, managing her meds and physical therapy, plus spending time with her to manage the mental health side, that's the 7 days/week one) and tech support for a gaming company (that's the one that's about an hour a day, sometimes 2-3 hours depending on if a DLC dropped or not)

Man...

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

8 minutes ago, outhous said:

Hahah, that's a funny answer, but I'd rather be glad if they release hotfixes. Hotfixes indicate that they are doing something and they care about the game.

45 minutes ago, SpiderThatCantHide said:

A universal release DOES hurt streamers. Especially if they stream 7DTD as a main game, or close to a main game. They'll lose tons of viewers, because the viewers will instead be playing, and not watching the streams. Streaming is a huge part of the future of entertainment, whether you or anyone else likes it or not. Would I like to play the game at the same time? Yes, sure. Am I going to pitch a huge fit like my 3 year old when he doesn't get what he wants? No. 

 

The general release will come in 2-3 days after the release for streamers. And they will be hurt. I think this is wrong. Streamers shouldn't be hurt and they shouldn't lose viewers. I suggest not releasing the A20 for all. From now on, all releases are only for streamers so that they do not lose viewers.

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

No and I really don't care about all of your posts.  I just noted that the thumbs down from them was for posts that I made that were toxic and I shouldn't have done that.

 

I have seen you been toxic against streamers, against developers, and against others in this forum.  But don't believe me, take a look at your own words just in the streamer thread alone in General discussion.  Pointing out what you have said in the past against others is not persecution or toxic, it's trying to get you to step back and understand that what you are typing is not very helpful or even nice to others.

 

 

If I allowed myself to be harsh a few times is this an excuse to harass me for a months and spam negative reactions to all my posts?

Plus, he did it even before I first showed toxicity, so your theory of the toxicity fighter is invalid.

 

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

4 minutes ago, bdubyah said:

Bach, I assume you've seen #10 on the list of new things shown in the original Dev Siary post, right? They know current trader balance is out of whack. Hopefully a20 will make it better. Gotta wait and see. May still not be nerfed enough to suit you but should be better than it is currently. 

Even if we imagine that they will balance it perfectly, it will not change the fact that they will balance for a game with 100% loot. Thus, when you playing with 50% or 25% loot, the trader will still spoil everything.

On 11/14/2021 at 1:04 AM, Data said:

I disagree with the OP “streamers shouldn’t get it 1^st”

 

Streamers can put a lot of hard work into streaming this game,

 

They do this to showcase the game, when they do that, they can discover a good chance of bug finding, which TFP take notice of and fix, with patches/hotfixes and releases of experimental and stable versions

 

TFP coders play the game (and yeah some of those vids seen are really bad, makes me laugh at some of their game play), bugs/errors can be missed

 

So they put it out to the streamers that then discover them

 

That’s why TFP ask these popular guys to run the latest patch/version

 

Imagine this, (to the OP)

 

If it wasn’t for dedicated streamers/players that find issues/bugs/coding etc. errors

 

You would probably be moaning about “why is this now A19.4/5/6/7/8/9/10 updates, why do I have to keep updating, why is the game not fixed yet”

 

It’s because of testers like streamers that find the issues to make YOUR game play better

 

By the way, how many bugs do you think they will find this weekend? What prevents them from having feedback and fixing bugs without streamers?

On 11/14/2021 at 1:04 AM, Data said:

You would probably be moaning about “why is this now A19.4/5/6/7/8/9/10 updates, why do I have to keep updating, why is the game not fixed yet”

Sure? Show me that person who would do this 😆

[Its Annoying That Streamers Get the Game First!]

Just now, 7daystodierocks said:

simple solution to that bach Dont use the trader at all

This is really a relatively simple solution, but it's a crutch. It's like cutting off your leg instead of treating it

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

3 часа назад BFT2020 сказал:

Мне нравится думать, что они действительно недооценивают токсичные сообщения. Те, что они сделали с моими, где после размышлений я стал токсичным, когда не собирался этого делать.

 

Возможно, я просто размышляю с моей стороны, но мысль о том, что у меня есть внешний моральный компас, который сочетается с моим внутренним, просто заставляет меня чувствовать себя лучше.  😆

You cannot claim that every post I post is toxic. But this kind of persecution is very toxic.

[Is Stone Axe OP?]

3 hours ago, JCrook1028 said:

I switch tiers when the higher tier makes an improvement, not before. I never go the entire game with stone tools tho, that's just be dumb. Iron takes a few mod slots til it passes stone for one reason, stone high quality is easy to find. Notice in your comparison you're using a lvl 6 stone vs a level 3 iron. Not sure why you wouldn't compare with equal mod slots. The mod slots are what really make the difference.

 

I was waiting for such an answer and I'm not surprised that exactly you wrote it. In fact, I gave the iron pick a head start in this comparison, because I really had to compare a level 6 stone ax and a level 1 or 2 iron pickaxe, not 3. In the first post I wrote a gamestage. Think why I did it.

 

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

8 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Funny Kuosimodo likes a majority of my posts.  They disliked one or two of mine, but I see a lot more likes than thumbs down.

Because you argue with me. Check it out. This is exactly what I am talking about. So you can thank me for the likes!😋

  

13 hours ago, bachgaman said:

Well, yes, because someone is arguing with me. Therefore, at maybe half of his reactions is not dislikes.

[Is Stone Axe OP?]

 

3 hours ago, JamesKirk said:

You're completely right, a stone axe would never exceed more sophisticated tools made of metal. In real life...

In this game it should not exceed them.

At least mods inserted to stone tools should be restricted to shaft mods as e.g. ergonomic grip. Nothing else.

 

Yeah, in the screenshot you can see the stone ax with modification "hardened steel" (not sure what exactly is the case in the English version) 😂

But this I would refer to trifles.

Stone ax that breaks steel blocks is nonsense, but zombies, according to this logic, would also not be able to break steel and stone or concrete blocks. We still need to make assumptions.

6 hours ago, Roland said:

 

I don't think that Bach is usually wrong about what he wants. I often disagree with what he designates as a necessary core feature or how critical a needed change is so that the devs should prioritize it now.  In this case, I would like to see a change in primitive tools and weapons so that they are not modifiable and also not repairable. I won't defend the fact that the stone axe is often better than the iron axe or pick that you first find. I'd like to see that changed as well.

 

Another difference is that Bach wants these changes made yesterday while I'm more patient and willing to use mods to approximate those changes or limit myself to simulate the changes while I wait for the devs to get to it.

 

So....I guess I explained clearly why YOU were wrong. Maybe there is something wrong with me...

Thank's man

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

1 hour ago, Khalagar said:

Gosh dang it, I refreshed and saw 19+ new posts and was hoping A20 was confirmed to be coming out on Friday for streamers,  and I missed something. Look at what you've done

Isn't it coming out this weekend? Nobody named the date?

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

Alright, I'm game. What's the essence I ignored?

It was a huge conversation about replayability, about new game world options, and not about whether it is a sandbox. The sandbox controversy was secondary and not important. There was a rather large post, from the middle of which you pulled out the phrase about sandbox, missing the main message, the original and main topic of conversation was contained in the same post, but you drew attention to it only after two posts, adding a paragraph to your last answer. I don't care how you call this game, I care about the replayability.

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

54 minutes ago, Aldranon said:

 

That is a solid truth in vanilla A19.  However, when I saw the "poison bubble guys" (don't know the official name), I put them in with the predator animals. 

Surrounded by them in a tight spot... that could be my first combat death in a long time (in the vanilla game anyway).

 

You mean zeds covered in green goo a.k.a. radiation?

I never understood from what considerations you can meet a silent and fast Dire Wolf with 750 hp on the first day of the game

2 hours ago, Astronomical said:

 

To be fair @Kuosimodo is not strictly a hater as many of his reactions are positive.

 

It's possible some people just don't appreciate your posts although with such copious and sprawling walls of text I can't imagine why? 😃

 

Well, yes, because someone is arguing with me. Therefore, at maybe half of his reactions is not dislikes.

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

3 hours ago, Astronomical said:

 

To be fair @Kuosimodo is not strictly a hater as many of his reactions are positive.

 

It's possible some people just don't appreciate your posts although with such copious and sprawling walls of text I can't imagine why? 😃

Do u really think all this 40+ reactions (dislikes) given to such “copious and sprawling walls of text” posts, as my lasts ones?

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

1 minute ago, Ianua said:

I just played my first Unmodded version of 7D2D since like alpha 16 or something. Hubby and I always remove the vultures and tone down the bears. (I've worn out a 3 bow trying to kill a bear once). My feedback was the vultures are still annoying, but not impossible to kill. Thanks to whoever fixed the hitbox.  I'm still terrified of the bears, but apparently they don't take 45 Iron arrows to kill one now. (might have taken that many since I am a really bad shot). I saw a cougar in the snow biome and sprinted off far away from it, so I can't say if that has changed. I love the weather effects, I kept checking the time on the ingame clock because I wasn't used to it being overcast.  I'd still like to see a FOV closer to 100, but I've been concentrating really hard on not getting motion sick and it seems to be working. (I'm also not jumping around like a fart in a skillet) Great Job Guys!

The animals in this game are really scarier than any zombie

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

2 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

There's no way on Earth that you can argue with Roland without having a really clear, solid, valid, resilitient and even "intense" point of view. I mean he is a teacher from the depths of a place that trains highly intelligent, scared and self-ignorant little beings on their path to self discovery and adulthood. He will make you see through your own BS and discover why you do or why you don't like this game. In other words, he is like a therapist that will make you a better human being for free.

 

If you fight it with mild or weak points, if your wall of text has any holes -however tiny- or even if you by any chance have said something that can even remotely be seen like a fallacy, then you will eventually get tunned down in a bloody sandbox of your own doing. That's a metaphor for wasting time and effort, yet look at the bright side, you will improve your social skills by 500% . That's a nice option into the "continue game" that is life.

 

Thank you Roland. Plz don't bully the rooster.

Yes, that's great. The problem is that he only pays attention to holes, the presence of which is not so important and at the same time ignores the essence.

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

On 11/12/2021 at 7:34 PM, Matt115 said:

But i agree with you: kuosimodo is a hater .

Yes he is😂dislike machine

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

10 minutes ago, Roland said:

And to your real point about trader imbalance, the devs plan to continue to balance and make adjustments. A20 will show some of those changes. Will they go far enough for you? Probably not. I think it is a good idea for there to be some options for the trader so players can adjust them more to their liking without having to remove them. Maybe those options will show up at some point.

I have already answered about rebalance in the A20. Obviously, the rebalancing will be done for 100% loot. And to be honest, I think he will still be OP. Let's see

1 hour ago, bachgaman said:

Simple rebalancing won't help those who want to play with 25% or 50% loot.

 

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

9 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

With the dm mode and cm mode enabled the game is pretty much a pure sandbox experience according to the classic definition using Gary's Mod as the primary example of a Sandbox game. Disabling those modes you can still gain a sandbox experience in that you can do what you want but there are of course limits. You can't fly and you must harvest all resources and craft all blocks and experience enemies as they are randomly generated rather than spawning in what you want to fight yourself. There are a lot of open world games out these days with just a very loose story pretty much giving you the setting and barest of backstories but you are primarily setting your own goals, doing what you want, and interacting with the world at your own pace and in your own way. These types are games are often called sandbox games because there is very very little scripted about them and the player is not forced to follow a story line in order to reach a conclusion to that story. You can go and just play around and do whatever for 100 days and you can't fail at whatever the game has as winning conditions.

So 7 Days qualifies as a sandbox under both sets of categories of sandbox. Play it with cm and dm turned off and you have an open world game without specified winning conditions and nothing to really guide or force you along a story path. Play it with cm and dm turned on and you have a classic Gary's Mod style sandbox experience where you can build a base immediately and without having to craft or harvest mats and then can spawn in 25 Demolishers and 25 Screamers and 25 zombie vultures and fight for a bit and when you get bored type in the killall command and do something else.

Okay, this is a sandbox game. I'm not interested in arguing about this. I was wrong, call it a sandbox, please. I wanted to use your argument against you, but I failed. In fact, I don't care if it's a sandbox or not. I hope now we all understand that 7DTD is a sandbox because it has DM, CM, because you can build and play a role

[Is Stone Axe OP?]

27 minutes ago, n2n1 said:

@bachgaman

the fact is that the game is being made for a very wide audience, for whom these things are not important. You and i probably don't relate to it .

In addition, everything will change many times. Right now - they just don't pay much attention to it.

Doesn't the phrase "very wide audience" mean that it includes those who care about such phenomena? I understand for whom they create flying AI robots and Twitch integration, but still

3 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

It’s why I mod out the ability of tier0 tools / weapons of having mod slots

Good job, man, corrected in xml files? No sarcasm🙂

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

Im back()

On 11/13/2021 at 3:08 PM, meganoth said:

No. You say I made contradictory claim, one of them being it is not a sandbox. So again, where did I say "It is not a sandbox". 

Okay, I was wrong about the sandbox, and I'll explain to you where I was wrong.

On 11/12/2021 at 2:51 AM, meganoth said:

As a mix of lots of genres they can pick whatever they want from each genre and call it that. And there is no clearcut definition of sandbox. The obvious element of 7D2D that gets them the label sandbox is clearly the building part which many other sandbox games lack in this detail. Another sandbox element is that you can largely play as a miner or tradesman, though in earlier alphas the "sandbox" part was much bigger.

In this paragraph, you are claiming that this game is a sandbox only in terms of construction and the possibility of role-playing. 

 

Many people on this forum have assured me that this is a sandbox game, and I was clearly convinced that this was usually an excuse for having to fix XML files. In fact, this is not the case. I checked. Perhaps there were such cases, but there were not many of them.

 

But for you to understand why I have complaints about the definition of a game as a sandbox, I believe that in a sandbox we set the rules and laws ourselves. If this feature is not a strong point of the game and a priority, then this is not a sandbox. My opinion.

 

Probably you dont consider, or dont say that you consider, flexibility and freedom to customize the world as a property of a sandbox game. I was wrong. Sorry. Stop talk about this.

On 11/13/2021 at 3:08 PM, meganoth said:

Off the top of my head

1) The trader is endpoint not only for quests he gives out but quests that can be found in the wasteland. All of those have to be deactived **depending** on this option. According to an experienced modder this might not be possible yet in XML so further changes in c++ code would be necessary.

2) The trader in A20 is a neccessary ingredient of any town as it is the endpoint of the highway to it. No trader, no highway that ends in that town. It probably would need some changes in random world generation to use an alternative newly-created POI for this as well (which I think would be the easiest fix)

3) Whether you believe it or not, bandits and story and possibly a faction system will be in 7D2D in the future, with the traders assumed to be in the middle of some of the mechanisms of this. Only TFP knows the detials, but such an interconnectedness would probably need additional code to make the game work without trader.

 

Blood Moon is not part of anything else, it just makes lots of zombies spawn at a specific time. I don't see any other feature of the game touched by BM.

1) But we are talking about how the quests, that he gives out, have a very detrimental effect on the gameplay. First, they tie you to the area around the trader. Second, they force you to clear the same points of interest. Thirdly, you receive too valuable rewards, that speed up development too much, for completing quests. These are real problems, and I've come up with some simple solutions to all three. And this is not the removing of the trader.  First and second problem can be solved by adding option "All trader's quests are unique (1 POI = 1 use in quests)", third problem can be solved by adding option "manual setting of the assortment and trader's rewards in the world options menu". Simple rebalancing won't help those who want to play with 25% or 50% loot.

 

Recently i started a new game on Vanila in Navezgane at a fairly high difficulty. On the 12th day I have a auger, a grenade launcher, a truck, a concrete base, all kinds of electric traps and electricity, a lot of ammunition and grenades. On the 14th day BM will come and how do you think I will experience the pleasure overcoming the difficulties offered by the game on this day? And I would not say that I was speedrunning a lot, I was playing a very ordinary game. So trader's rewards and shop is really broken, because I bought concrete from him, from him I bought a crucible and some steel for the car, from him I bought an AK-47 level 4 and level 2 (on day 2), from him I received thousands of ammo for this AK, from him I received hundreds of grenades, from him I bought a grenade launcher and ammo for it, I bought a drill from him and much more. Not to mention the tens of thousands of experience as rewards and for items sold.

 

By the way, what kind of wasteland quests are you talking about? Those raw notes that give you 300 dukes and 500 experience and nothing else? From extreme to extreme

 

2) I did not know about this, but what prevents to dont literally remove the trader, but to make him uncommunicative, as an example? I don’t know, maybe you’re right and removing it is a more difficult thing to do than make him able to setting up.

 

3) In general, I assumed that all this future content would disappear with him, but we dont have it yet, so what are we talking about

 

4) The trader is also not part of anything else today. I proceed from what we have now and in the next few years.

[Advanced Difficulty Scenario Technology (Settings Scenarios/Scripts)]

1 hour ago, Blake_ said:

The "ideal" of the idea is nice. Those graphics are amazing and capture the current feeling of the gameplay very good (I'm mostly talking about the 1st one).

 

In my opinion you are just promoting a half-baked gameplay experience based on an alpha (a19-a20). You might want to wait until gold for this. Gold will not have bandits or npcs or quests missing, which will add to the value of ramping up the difficulty to a point in which it will be ok for most of us. Special Zombies and a random event system (meaning random happenings on roads/landscapes like an npc in distress, or an assault, etc) are what this game is missing in the long run.

Alpha or not,  things like 50% loot or other stuff on specific days are not very healthy, but I feel like you also want that random event system and you created a brainchild in your post that might be defined as some sort of a random setting system. If there are enough events, you will never get bored. 

 

Disclaimer: By event system I mean an improved spawner like the random horde one that supports spawns in specific places like roads or country roads and that contains a good bunch of situations like npcs in distress, factions fighting, smugglers, wandering traders, Zds vs npcs, etc etc.

 

 

High hopes for the future.

 

Hugs!

That's right, I assume that all the world options, available when you starting the game, will be available for the "difficulty scenarios" editor. Yes, it would be great to be able to create day events and so on, but now we dont have it in the game. It would be enough to manage what we have. The idea is to stay as close to "normal gaming with some difficulties" as possible, when the game gives you a challenge, but does not make you bored, or vice versa, does not become unplayable. The impossibility of "option 2" is that no system can take into account the player's personal skill, two different players, being in the same conditions, can find themselves in different extremes. It will be too easy for one person, and it will be too difficult for another.

 

 

Someone may say that I can change the settings at any time. But it is precisely this freedom that spoils everything, because you will raise the difficulty only after realizing that you have become easy and bored, which means that you have already begun to lose interest in the game and increasing the complexity at this moment you will only get a feeling of artificial difficultition. As you go through the "scenario" you have no choice. You either pass it or you give up.