bachgaman
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Posts posted by bachgaman
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1 minute ago, faatal said:
The zombies just called for a meeting. They don't feel they are properly balanced against the player's skill trees. They are calling for teleportation and time travel, so they can go back and kill you as a child.
Speaking on behalf of the zombies, I do acknowledge that they are unbalanced in against the player's skill trees. They need adding intelligence and numerical advantage.
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13 minutes ago, Roland said:
Linking to an article at Boardgame Geek scores you some definite points with me. However, that article on symmetry vs asymmetry is primarily from the perspective of boardgames that are directly competitive. Players start either on equal or unequal footing and have options that are the same or different (depending on how asymmetrical the design is) for the purpose of gaining more victory points faster or area domination or whatever the goals of the particular game may be and they are actively working against each other to do so.
In 7 Days to Die the asymmetry is not competitive between the trees. I'm not playing Intellect build against your strength build and seeing if I can be the first to reach level 50 or dominate more areas of the map or create the most efficient engine for gathering resources and crafting them into game winning prestige monuments. In this game the asymmetry is in running through the game in different ways for a different experience and different challenge. There is no one I'm competing against that makes it unfair for me to go slow with a bow vs fast with a machine gun.
If this game were primarily PvP with direct competition between players and TFP wanted a perception player to be able to be directly competitive with a strength player or an intellect player then I agree that they would have to do some serious rebalancing. But they're not making a PvP game in which they expect an Agility player to be able to go toe to toe and progress competitively with a player doing something else in a different way. Therefore, they can set up the different attributes to be wholly different and not equally viable in terms of efficiency and it is perfectly okay.
If playing pure intellect is impossible to do on Insane then lower the difficulty until it is possible. Simple as that. There is no need to "buff up" intellect so that it plays out exactly like strength but just a different skin.
On another note, I just picked up Maracaibo and am really excited to get it to the table and hope to be able to do so a few times next week!
What's the point in joking about that the site is about board games when the article discusses the game design concept that Jost Amman mentioned?
I told you what is common between PVE balance and PVP balance. You can read it here
So what if AI and other conditions of the world act instead of the enemy player?
Btw the intellect branch is the strongest branch today, so this is a bad example about intelligence. Intelligence allows you to reach endgame in first game week.
32 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:😲
now I'm not even sure anymore we're talking about the same game.
I will go home and rethink my life.
Perhaps the explanation is that I do 3-4 trader quests a day while you hide in the bushes with your homemade bow
27 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:I don't understand why you're suddenly talking about traders: did I mention traders in any way, shape or form? I forgot, this has been a long discussion...
I mentioned the trader because he is the one who gives out hundreds of ammo and firearms for the first level quests, which negates the need for a bow for example.
32 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:Yes, I agree on balancing the role playing part even more than it is.
Have you got any ideas on how to do it?
If the game did not have this broken trader rewards mechanic, the player would have the problem of accumulating ammo for the blood moon, and then, perhaps, bows and stealth would become the solution to this problem. Perhaps the developers would have been generous and would have presented an alternative solution of this problem. For example, you could become a courier between merchants to earn money and ammunition, or you could become an engineer and make bad ammunition from improvised means at the beginning of the game, and so on. These examples are conditional.
34 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:I don't understand where the "imaginary" comes from... are you saying that stealth is completely broken?
In that case, I suggest you file a bug report detailing what isn't working and how the steps to replicate the problem. Tks.
The stealth is imaginary because with an conditional AK-47 on day 2 you clear out POIs and complete quests without having to avoid a direct collision.
23 minutes ago, dcsobral said:Right, so we agree that the goal is food production while leveling up as slow as possible and avoid looting zombie-infested places. Ok, now I have a frame of reference.
Apparently you have not played this game, because in this game it is impossible to die of hunger. But if you do not loot POIs, then you will be destroyed in the bloody moon. Nice try, but sarcasm failed (to put it mildly)
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38 minutes ago, dcsobral said:
but what is being produced
Your ability to survive. It's survival game
Just now, Jost Amman said:No, it's called R O L E P L A Y N G (I spelled it clearly since it's a very revolutionary new concept which has just hit the game industry).
Ok, why not balance the role-playing experience? I don’t understand, are you really opposed to trader that not giving you hundreds and thousands of ammo and greandes on the very first day? Do you really enjoy playing an imaginary game of hide and seek rather than a real one? Or are you just arguing because you don't want to agree that there is no balance in the game?
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5 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:
So you would consider the game to be truly balanced when every perk/power/skill/weapon you chose has an equal chance in succeeding?
Meaning bow/arrow should be an equal weapon choice for horde night compared to an AK47,
a hand grenade should be equally suitable to kill a zed over distance, and so is a sniper rifle when you fight a bunch of Zs in close quarters?
I mean, I know you don't want to say that, but.
Especially perks are per se a very individual thing, giving advantages only for some situations, whilst you have to accept that you won't be that good in other aspects (because of limited point to spent ) and that's a big part for adding to variety/replayability.
Otherwise, wouldn't it get boring when you realize that your choices don't really matter, cause the different weapons for example are - at the bottom line - really only different textures over the same DPS mechanics?
No. Not this way. I wrote this for a reason
12 hours ago, bachgaman said:Give the conditions in which the choice of stealth and bow will be optimal.
11 hours ago, bachgaman said:I still do not see the conditions in which I should choose a bow and stealth, not an AK/shotgun and barter/adventurer.
By the way, I never got an answer.
The balance is to ensure that all perks are playable, not the same. So that they solve special problems that must be solved in order to survive. Bow skill and stealth don't solve the problem. The bow does not solve the problem because in a normal game you get an AK-47 and several hundred ammo on day 2. Stealth is not needed, because when u have AK-47 with 600 ammo there are no enemies who can kill you. The game does not aim to save AK-47 ammo or avoid a very strong enemy. Therefore, in reality, these perks do not carry any value. You can play with them, but this is self-indulgence, not survival. They could be useful in the same form in which they exist now, but due to other balance errors they are not in demand. Just like solar panels, which drop out of the game because you can create 125 gas from 1 shale, just like iron tools, because you can use stone more efficiently, and so on.
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36 minutes ago, Mistwraith said:
Its not useful, of course. And I personaly improve them. Improving your skills is part of games and the reward for your troubles. But if someone likes it that way, why not?
You contradict your own logic
ME: perks X and Y are useless because there is always a better alternative
YOU: That it is not, because people enjoy using them. **That is, utility is determined not by efficiency, but by getting pleasure**
ME: By this logic if someone does not use the perks, getting enjoyment from it, it makes the unspent perk points useful
YOU: Its not useful, of course.
=)))
36 minutes ago, Mistwraith said:But I really dont understand why you cant live with the fact, that different people enjoy different stuff. Some people like rap, others dont. Some people like movies ... others dont.
Thats the way it is. Nobody is superior or inferior because of his or her choice of entertainement. Whats so hard about that?
If we talk efficiency or PvP .... thats another matter. I will totally shoot your sorry ass with an M60 in PvP, but in PvE I have another taste. Like everyone else. But I see, that you cannot take it, that other people are different from you. So, just believe that others are inferior to you. Good bye, have a nice day, have fun playing the game and good loot to you. I am out of the discussion with you.
The conversation is not about who should do what, I don't care what others are doing, conversation is about how balanced the power of the perks is
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29 minutes ago, charmor said:
I often need bulk cotton collecting for the creation of cloth in order to make a large amount of duct tape. Bone is super easy to come by to make glue, but harvesting plant fiber/cotton takes a lot more effort, imo. Plus I think it would be especially fun to run over zombies with a lawn tractor.
You can learn farming and create a cotton plantation, picking cotton from the beds is not difficult and dont take long time i think (in the game). But your words are reasonable.
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Just now, Jost Amman said:
Seems to me, that doesn't apply to the way I play: all of that is about balancing two opposed players, not about a single player adventuring in a sandbox survival game world.
In PVP you will suffer from inefficiency due to the fact that you will lose to other players, in PVE you will suffer from inefficiency due to the fact that you will lose to external factors
If we continue the analogy, then playing with an ineffective method at lower difficulty settings is equivalent to playing on a smurf account in competitive games against obviously weaker players. In such games, the obviously stronger player can play according to an ineffective but fun strategy and still win. This does not make an "ineffective" strategy balanced to an "effective" one and it is not the result of "balancing the game", it is the result of deception and self-deception.
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It doesn't matter how it's called. It is important that the game continues to be developed. I am very glad that they are changing it, maybe I still sometimes play it just because of this
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1 minute ago, Jost Amman said:
That probably depends on your definition of "valid". Example: maybe for some, a valid choice must be something efficient and as good as any other choice. For others, like me, it's a valid choice if it provides me with a different and fun new way to play the game, even if, compared to other play styles, it may seem under powered.
This article is about efficiency
https://boardgamegeek.com/thread/636692/game-balance-symmetry-vs-asymmetry
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I also once thought about this, but in fact, the game does not have an urgent need to collect a large amount of grass. Unless for the very mass production of Pipe Bombs. I think there are innumerable missing things in the game that are much more influential than this.
But overall it would be cool and authentic. Better than flying self-driving drones.
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12 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
I'd also add that this is exactly the example of asymmetrical balanced gameplay.
The fun is purposefully found in NOT playing in the most efficient way.
For a game with developmental asymmetry to be interesting, the developmental options must also be balanced against one another, so they are all valid choices (с) 😂
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7 hours ago, stallionsden said:
Well ofc you have to actually be skilled and patient to be able to use a bow and stealth. 🤔🥱😉
Not have to. Especially on the difficulty you are playing. On this difficulty, you can complete the game with a torch as a weapon. True, the speed of completing will be similar to the speed of completing with a bow.
7 hours ago, Mistwraith said:I would call it "enoyable".
Sometimes I just want to murder a crapton of mobs, thats the time Serious Sam has to be dusted off again, or a game from the Borderlands series.
Another time I want my hardcore RPG strategy, and Dragon Age and the like deliver.
And another time I want my Survival/Crafting game and have the feeling I have to sneak around in zombie infested areas that are lethal to me when detected.
Its just a question of my current mood for me. Am I in the mood for stealth kills, sneaking away and feeling threatened? Then its 7DTD. For action, I have plenty of other games.
Am I in the mood for ripping apart gang members with mantis blades while listening to metal music? Then its Cyberpunk2077 today.
Different people have fun with different experiences. And handicapping yourself IS enjoyable for some players. Me included. Not every time. Not in every game. But in a survival game I was looking for survival, not for Call of Duty.
If you enjoy the Call of Duty style in 7DTD, if its fun to you, then go for it and let me wish you fun and good loot.
But its not always about efficiency. Games are also about emotions.
Okay, so in theory you could enjoy playing the game without improving perks. Would that make unimproving perks useful?
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2 hours ago, Syphon583 said:
This is a ridiculous argument. Who are you to criticize how someone else plays the game? If they get more enjoyment out of killing Zs with a bow instead of a gun, more power to them. It actually takes more skill to do it this way, so he (and the hundreds if not thousands of others who play this way) are getting more out of the experience.
Does Warrior difficulty require skill? Are you seriously? haha
It wasn't about enjoyment, by the way. It was about the usefulness of the perks. These perks are useless, because in any situation you can do without them by getting more.
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1 hour ago, JCrook1028 said:
Completely missing the point. Point is that VERY few streamers make a living from streaming. But that's ok, I understand why you choose to go off topic. It wrecks your delusion of all these professional streamers messing up your life. smh.
Did I mention that they live by earning it? Sort of like I wrote that they hope for it, and do not do it. Thats why they buy subscriptions, that's why they portray fake emotions, that's why they say what most people want to hear, and so on. And with all this they are most often terrible players. Therefore I do not want to respect them and therefore I am unhappy that they will be the first who get the game.
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1 hour ago, Kalex said:
Calling serious BS on this one. I watch my husband take them out all the time with a bow using his stealth build. Hell, I've seen him sneak up on a zed and stab them in the head with a hunting knife and one shot them. And yes, we play on Warrior. So stealth and the bow works just fine. Sounds like operator error to me.
Great, I'm sure he also reaches the crucible, truck, concrete base and auger by day 7, just like me. I believe0 -
7 hours ago, BFT2020 said:
insulting others because of how they play the game is childish
Where did you see insult?
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11 minutes ago, Mistwraith said:
Different people prefer different play styles. No one has more or less weoght because he or she enjoys to playing their games another way. Thats the wonderfull thing with most games. You can choose between different styles. You can choose the one thats fun for YOU.
We could call these "different styles" if they gave the same result. This is not the case. Playing with bow and stealth on Warrior difficulty is like riding a bike with square wheels.
Would you say that riding with square wheels is a different style of bike handling? I would not say so. I would find a better word
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25 minutes ago, stallionsden said:
Lmao.
Do you need someone to teach you how to use the bow.. maybe how to stealth a poi..i do use the bow and stealth and would be happy to teach you how to play the game. Many others use the bow and stealth as well.
One of the best silent weapons in the game. If you know how to play using bows and stealth and if you don't know how you call it useless 🤔🤔🤔.
I clear t5s with the compound bow with radiated zs in it without waking them.. therrbis 1 example. Learn how to use the bow and stealth and you to can think the bow and stealth are awesome.
Man, you play the warrior difficulty and you stealthing from something, why are you writing about the personal skills to play? 😂
I still do not see the conditions in which I should choose a bow and stealth, not an AK/shotgun and barter/adventurer. All your cool stories have no weight yet
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1 hour ago, stallionsden said:
You mean the bit where you said a bow won't do much 🙄🙄🙄.
Or the bit where you said stealth wasn't very useful.. which both those statements are wrong hence why I don't think you play the game.
Although the conversation was not about that, but yes. Both are useless @%$#. Try to prove that it is not so. Give the conditions in which the choice of stealth and bow will be optimal.
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4 hours ago, stallionsden said:
Do you play the game. I kill radiated all the time in stealth 1 shots.
Do you read the post.
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On 11/16/2021 at 8:56 PM, ThaArchivist said:
Back ground info: I hosted a dedicated server for me and my friends. We shared a base with no claim block. When one of us would put down a Robotic Sledge turret, it never attacked any zeds. I once tried to recreate on the same server when no one else was on and it worked fine. I didnt have anything perked into robotics. I just dont understand why it would have this behavior or if its a bug.
Owner must be nearby
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1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:
There was talk about it possibly coming back, but that was around Alpha 16 or so. With the forum migration, it is hard to refresh my memory sometimes.
There is a mod that brings it back, gnamod horde mod. It brings back the arcade version of 7D2D. It's been updated for Alpha 19
I have never played it so I can't give any good feedback on it myself.
If it could be played in Vanila it would be a great mod, but unfortunately it is very different from Vanila and, imho, not for the better. But somebody like it, I guess
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5 minutes ago, pregnable said:
Pretty sure I said this before, but maybe not...
Since the usefulness of stealth comes up every so often, it would be cool if bows, crossbows, and maybe knives, kept part of their sneak attack bonus, when they are sneaking, but have been discovered.
Maybe something like 50%, or whatever balance dictates. Maybe on the last rank of a skill.
That way stealth is still useful on horde night, and also works when POI triggers auto break stealth.
I very much doubt that stealth can ever be useful.
Perhaps in the early days on insane nightmare, but believe me, you will not kill many of them with a bow😂
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18 hours ago, Slaasher said:
I check these forums every freakin day now looking for a starting date to A20
Promised myself that I wouldnt play until it comes out to help build the internal hype
Im going crazy at this point
Not even sure why I am writing this.
F#@$ I hope that its soon 🤪
By the way, I was also expecting this in April. It seems that someone named such dates, or am I wrong? Somewhere I saw it for sure or is it just a coincidence
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A20 Developer Diary Discussions
in General Discussion
Posted
In fact, investing in specialized weapon perks is also useless, in part because of the trader, again. Because by investing points in barter, you will get more damage due to the fact that you will acquire more advanced weapons and will not be tied to one type of weapon.