bachgaman
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Posts posted by bachgaman
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15 minutes ago, Roland said:
Now here is an example of someone sticking doggedly to an inaccurate self-constructed narrative despite thousands of words over the course of four years explaining otherwise by one who is an authoritative source on the subject.
And we’re accused of silencing people?
I hope they will publicly sum up the results of this streamer event
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Well, how many bugs did streamers find?🤣
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3 minutes ago, POCKET951 said:
here comes the graph, we have evolved from long walls of text to pictures, pie charts and power point presentations. when do we start doing group zoom debates?
It is from another topic, here it is so that you can enjoy the other two graphics that I presented there😂
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38 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
Lmao, you're kidding right? You're honsetly gonna try and say that was what you meant when you slammed streamers for not working a "rel job"? That's pathetic. Sad really how you can't even stand by your own words.
The typical streamer I talked about is almost always either a schoolboy or a student.
And I do not criticize people for not working on "rel jobs", I have no right to do so, because I myself left "rel job" a year ago and now am engaged in my own little business. The words about us, the unfortunate hard workers, were rather an exaggerated joke with a grain of truth in their main message, but everyone took them seriously and rushed to prove something about 50-year-old streamers working at home, which I did not even think about when I wrote about the evil, hypocritical and greedy mediocrities.
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13 minutes ago, meganoth said:
So? To use stealth as a tool you have to invest in its perks and use bows, at least in the beginning there is no adequate replacement for the silence of a bow.
Why would I invest in a perk that the game doesn't need? I never need to hide, under any circumstances. Again, I don’t want to play stealth for the sake of playing stealth
14 minutes ago, meganoth said:Maybe "condescending", "dismissive" rings a bell ?
There was nothing like that in that message. Everything was written as it is. Why are you all so fond of taking offense at the truth? Anyway, I didn't try to insult her
16 minutes ago, meganoth said:If you say "Default difficulty is incredibly easy even for newbie" you are not talking about one specific newbie (obviously, since we never talked about a specific one), you are talking about any newbie. You should know English well enough to know that this is a general statement.
You and your friends have probably the same background in games played, often the same tastes, nearly the same age maybe. When you started playing you surely talked about good and bad perks, what is best to play, formed opinions together. You and your friends are not independant samples.
If think about it, I would really say that it have to be easy for most beginners. Except for people who are new to computer games generally. I am not passing it off as truth. I think so.
The problem with such low difficulty is that you will have little sense of progress. At the start of the game, you can kill a zombie with literally torch by 3 hits like this, check spoilers in linked post:
In fact, any difficulty becomes very easy sooner or later. The lower the difficulty, the faster it happens. This is a difficulty design problem. My mega graph about this:
Spoiler
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Will Navezgane be updated with all the world generation updates?
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23 minutes ago, Roland said:
I don't need to prove that fun is the whole point of playing.
The game doesn't get more fun if it's out of balance
24 minutes ago, Roland said:You've been told several times by multiple people but you can't understand it because it is alien to your way of thinking. This is not a dig. I'm just stating that we have no common frame of reference. Analogies don't work because you can't see the connection and so you dismiss them. Flat out telling you hasn't worked because you can't believe that people actually don't care about efficiency and are deceiving themselves as they play to maintain their fiction. It's taken us awhile to figure out where you're coming from but I think we are finally getting the gist of it.
This is not to say that I don't think that bow and stealth can't see some improvements but it is to say that I am perfectly happy with how they play right now and have had many enjoyable hours playing the game focusing on these areas for the sake of playing survival with a specific type of character. So in the sense that you can play and have an enjoyable time and experience some challenge they are balanced nicely vs the gamestage progression of the game itself as it gets more difficult. You can be a stealthy archer and survive.
But...all of this just sounds like a bicycle with square wheels to you right?
Once again, the fact of having fun does not confirm the presence of balance.
27 minutes ago, Roland said:I get that you are not saying these things to be insulting. You are just stating facts as you see them. The problem is that your sense of bad is all wrapped up in efficiency and speed which are qualities of gameplay that you value. So just saying people play bad because they made bad choices is to general. We have to know that bad choices means choosing actions that don't progress your character as quickly as another action that is available. This is why you will never play bow and stealth because as soon as you have a weapon that is better than the bow you must choose that weapon and dump the bow in order to make a good choice.
People who value other aspects of the game will view keeping the bow and continuing the game as an archer as a good choice.
If they like to keep playing with the bow when they have a machine gun, then let them play with the bow, but the fact that there are people who do it does not refute my words that bows and stealth are incredibly weak and unclaimed in this game. You yourself admitted this, and even the developers wrote that the bows will be strengthened. What can you argue about, I don’t understand. I don't care about your philosophy of permissiveness, I really don't care what others do.
Again. I declare that bows and stealth are useless. You assure me that this is not the case, because you and 2 other people on the forum are using it. But here the logical connection is broken. Just because you enjoy using the useless does not turn the useless into the useful. This is easy to understand with an example. If you do not improve perks at all, then the unallocated perk points will not be useful. If in this case you say that the unallocated perk points will become useful because someone has enjoyed playing with them, then I wash my hands.
23 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:Maybe you forget he's a "speed runner", he actually reached those measly 8K hours in a fraction of the time it took the other guy, you know?
He lied. I have never stated this
24 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:Oh, you mean like your bad attitude and manners? ... Yes, that's a fact.
I did not offend anyone in this thread. The fact that you are offended by the mention of bad players is your personal problem. And this despite the fact that I did not call any of you bad players.
26 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:Yep, one of the devs just confirmed it... now what?
Has he confirmed that the entire balance is directed only to the Adventurer? Show me where.
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6 minutes ago, Burrfly said:
Holy crap, if you would take all of bachgaman's posts from the last 8 pages and place it in a list you would have to scroll for 4 hours straight. Not to be mean
Just find it interesting that all of that 20GB of text is about how other people should play the game. Everyone should play however they like.
These pages are not about that, you are mistaken.
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59 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
That's not a "normal" game, that's a speedrun game. Normal games don't include crucible and 4x4 by D7. You just prefer to speedrun it. Which is fine but that is also why the game gets boring to you, you do it the same way every time. Playing with "worse" methods increases the fun factor because it is new and challenging.
I would not say that I was speedrunning, but yes, I wasted no time (mostly)
34 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:Did you just respond to Dcsobral that you also had 8k hours in the game? Which is it, newbie recently or 8k hours?
Where did I write that I have 8k hours? You are sick? Stop wishful thinking, that's ridiculous
46 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:So in your eyes the trader is severely unbalanced yet you still go full hog into the perks to make it even more OP? Lmao, that's just stupid.
I did this race specifically to test my words after the recent controversy about the trader. Is it stupid? Do you seem to judge my "playstyle"? Oh oh oh how toxic
39 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:Well of course they are, that's only the 2nd horde.
Another answer without regard to context. This was said in response to the words that the power of the bloody moons allegedly scales with game progress.
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36 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
But you also said they don't work "real" jobs. So which is it? They earn their living by streaming or not? You can't have it both ways.
Can't they have benefits? Can't they live off their parents? Can't they live on the scholarship? Can't they have savings? Are people either only working 9-5 or just streaming in your opinion?
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21 minutes ago, Roland said:
Yes, I was talking about the most extreme on the spectrum. I also stated myself that there are degrees. By stating the most extreme, people can now read what you post and evaluate how you compare to the extreme. Going by your posts (I don't know you after all) I would say you are closer to the extreme end and I'm betting most who have read your viewpoint would agree. I mean not only can you not stand to play inefficiently you can't even stand to watch inefficient play. It is one of your admitted main objections to streamers and it makes so much sense and fits why you could never be part of that culture.
If I were minmax, I would abuse all the exploits that the game teems with, but in many ways you're right, it's impossible to look at a bad game
31 minutes ago, Roland said:Yeah, you win. Since efficiency is the only context that matters to you-- in those terms-- I fully admit that bow and stealth are worse perks than barter and adventurer. I also admit that by concentrating on bow and and stealth I would never be able to have a jeep, concrete base, best tools and weapons, and otherwise win the game under your conditions by day 7 on Warrior or higher difficulty.
Now the big question that has got to worry you is whether the developers of the game believe that efficiency is the only context for balance that matters.
The funny thing is that the conversation initially began with a discussion of how useful the bow and stealth perks were. The funny thing is that the conversation initially began with a discussion of how useful the bow and stealth perks were. I have proven that fun is not proof of utility. After that, we could close this discussion. Not about whether the developers should do something about it. Reread the thread.
49 minutes ago, Roland said:And now I admit fully that they are simply unbalanced by your criteria. I completely believe you when you say you can achieve your win conditions by Day 7 with one particular combination of perks and play strategy but that you cannot replicate that using other combinations of perks and play strategies. My argument has ceased to be whether you are wrong or right about the balance of the game. You are 100% right. The perks are not all balanced against efficiency.
My own enjoyment of the game is completely unconditional upon whether one strategy is more or less efficient than another, however. In fact, my enjoyment of bow and stealth is due to the fact that it is less efficient because that offers a new experience and unlike you I don't have to work hard at all to ignore the fact that the way I am choosing to play is going to be slower and wasteful. So I really have no need or desire to avoid admitting that the imbalance as you have described it exists.
You say "by your criteria", then tell us in what criteria they are balanced
52 minutes ago, Roland said:Do you realize that your very definition of what makes someone a bad player vs a good player just adds more evidence about how extreme you are in your views about efficiency? Not only are you obsessed but it has become the very definition of good and bad to you. "Good choices" are only those choices that are the most efficient. "Playing well" means purely that you are progressing as quickly as you can maximizing efficiency and minimizing waste.
A streamer who pauses to talk to their chat is a bad player and makes poor choices because chatting with your audience doesn't help them advance their progression in any way.
A player who decides to focus on bow and stealth is a bad player because on day 7 they will be in rags crouching behind a bush while someone else who started at the same time and is a good player will have a truck and a machine gun.
A player is a good player if they mod out the trader so none exist in their game but a bad player if they leave the trader in but just choose to ignore or limit how they use the trader because then they are making inefficient choices and ignoring the best possible choices to advance as quickly as possible that are available to them.
This is not "my definition", these are facts. If a player plays badly, makes bad choices, dies on low difficulty, builds a bad base, sorts things badly, or plans his actions badly, then this is a bad player. I do not humiliate anyone with this, it is a fact. If a person does something poorly, then he is bad at it
55 minutes ago, Roland said:I very much doubt that the developers are going to rebalance the game (the entire game needs to be rebalanced I believe you said) to suit you. They are not nearly so focused on the thing you hold most dear.
Stop pulling phrases out of context and read in response to what I wrote this. The person said that all difficulty settings that go beyond the standard are not something to focus on when balancing
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19 minutes ago, JCrook1028 said:
Yes, you did. Then as usual you go on to making assumptions such as they're fake and terrible players.
Also, obviously, I was talking about full time streamers, for whom this is a salary, and not about hobby streamers.
This phrase does not mean that these mediocrities earn substantial money.
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4 minutes ago, meganoth said:
If you want to play stealth there is really no alternative to perking into stealth and using a bow. Only after finding a silencer you get more options. What does that have to do with what you usually do?
I don't want to play stealth for the sake of playing stealth. I want to use stealth as a tool for further development and survival at a distance
5 minutes ago, meganoth said:For example using derogatory terms and similes for any activity someone else does is impolite and bad discussion culture.
What "derogatory terms and similes" have I used? I dont understand
6 minutes ago, meganoth said:Did I demand it for every opinion? No, I demanded it for exactly one statemant made about ALL newbies.
I'm afraid to say for sure, because you can request new statistics, but it seems to me that this is not the first time you do this. And not only you.
I didn't say "ALL", I didn't even use the plural in "newbie". But from my experience it is
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1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:
And I'm telling you that since this is about personal perception, the fact you're trying to showcase your own point of view as the "truth", by also gauging other players' supposed preferences, that is simply preposterous. As I said, speak for yourself and try not to deflect by saying my reply is "stereotypical".
Your reaction to my phrase that, IN MY OPINION, I am far from being alone in my perception of endgame (which is not unreasonable) was really very funny and stereotyped. You triggered and, according to a pre-prepared template, began to write about the fact that I use "WE" to prove something there 😂
1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:To sum it up: you think that competitive gaming is the best way to balance 7D2D, instead I think it should also take into account the "fun factor" and role playing.
It is very interesting from what you have drawn such conclusions. And how someone's "fun" can be related to balance. In addition, I am sure that bow lovers would have a lot more fun in a balanced game. I myself would not mind playing with the bow, if that made sense.
1 hour ago, meganoth said:But it is obvious that other tasks are more important than collecting feathers when you don't go for agility and bows. It was you who said feathers are hard to find and that was a reason for you not to use a bow.
Improve perks of a certain type of weapon is self-limitation, I very rarely do this
1 hour ago, meganoth said:I'm not sure if you noticed but that "more important tasks" sounds really snobbish (at least to me).
?
1 hour ago, meganoth said:Lets, put it another way, another comment that is impolite without necessity.
What is impolite?
1 hour ago, meganoth said:ince enemies get stronger in sync with your level progress you may as well need a sturdy concrete base on day 7
They don't get stronger. If you are talking about blood moons, then they also scale very badly. I played until day 14 and both blood moons were almost completely boring and easy.
1 hour ago, meganoth said:How do you know that default is incredibly easy for newbies? DId you really observe say a hundred newbies without giving them any hints and they soared through the game?
Because I was a newbie not too long ago. The ones I play with in the group too. Don't you think it's ridiculous to demand research and statistics on every opinion expressed?
16 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:I somehow knew you would feel called upon proving you get all that stuff so early by posting some pictures,
although I never said I didn't believe you.
Well those pictures don't "prove" anything cause there's no way to say how your game options are tweaked,
or even whether you gave yourself all that stuff via console command.
But that's not the point, and I'm not saying that.
I truly believe that's your actual real and straight game,
as you can believe me when I tell you that I never have all that stuff that early ingame (and no thx I'm not lazily hiding in the bushes all the time...)
(or should I post some pictures of a trader's inventory without any full-auto guns or impact drivers to prove it? 😀)
So it's what I said. Different games. Pointless discussion. I'm out.
It seemed to me that multiple statements about the different games we play are a sign of distrust.
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Heh went to see what has changed in DF. Launched the pre-generated medium world, it seems
First t1 quest i got
SpoilerWith
SpoilerWhen u play default settings
SpoilerLOL Good luck using the compack
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4 minutes ago, meilodasreh said:
Ok for me this is all starting to become pointless...we ARE playing different games here. Thx anyways for your thoughts.
Spoiler
3 minutes ago, SenpaiThatIngnoresYou said:Did they remove dog hordes from vanilla?
Nope
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44 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
When people start using "WE" when they express their own opinions, it means their argument is not so strong as they think.
Just express your opinion for yourself. Don't try to make it look like you're backed by a huge crowd all agreeing with your ideas.
I could tell you, for example, that I believe also that many will agree that you can find a lot of reasons to continue playing even after other people think they've won.
Expected, stereotyped answer, I did not expect anything else, lol
I only explained why I think that we are discussing an important issue, that not only about me, and not why I am right. It is obvious
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1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:
Ask @Gazz, AFAIK the game is balanced (spreadsheets and all) around the default difficulty level.
In this case, game need a rework of everything. Default difficulty is incredibly easy even for newbie
1 hour ago, BFT2020 said:You asked me before of where you insulted others. The fact that you don't see it, nobody can help you.
You do it all the time, whether it is a direct insult or a passive-aggressive insult. It makes me wonder what is the motivation for them.
Why do people make snide comments like the one above; implying that the way or difficulty levels others play makes them bad players, even as far as implying that what they say about how they play or the game itself doesn't matter? Do they do this to make them feel superior to others? Are they doing it because they want to demean others?
The fact that this sentence alone is not necessary when discussing with someone else about balance or improvements on game, but yet you still include it says a lot.
It says a lot that you did not answer when I asked, but sat and waited for the right opportunity to write this. It's funny. By the way, I don't see anything offensive in the fact that someone plays badly. If this offends you, then this is only your problem. Prove that it is not so in this case.
1 hour ago, Jost Amman said:There you go!
I believe many will agree that the game loses interest at the moment when you cannot create anything new and the game conditions cease to create difficulties / dangers. So its endgame for many people
1 hour ago, meilodasreh said:No I also do mostly trader quests (whilst I never can do 4 a day, mostly 2 sometimes maybe 3 to the highest).
And I've never been so lucky to get awarded an AK at day 1 or 2, nor was there an affordable one in stock. Same for bigger stacks of ammo.
If you say that's generally the case...
Well I will just assume you must be like that super lucky woman from Deadpool 2.
When your life is a row of incredible flukes, then I can understand every of your arguments.
But that's not my reality.
The only thing I keep being lucky in every game I start is that I find the recipe for bacon&eggs very early, so I do not need to spend any points in Chef.
Once that failed me, and the game felt totally different because I suddenly had to care about starvation, which was not a problem at all before.
We will see how A20 performs in that way (as it was already announced that there are bigger changes in loot/progression)
TFP did already do a good job in diminishing the game being set upside down by a lucky/early find of high quality stuff in previous alphas.
On my last visit to Vanila, I bought an AK at the beginning of the second day (or at the end of the first, I don’t remember), bought a crucible for day 4, more than a thousand concrete for day 5. I think if I try to repeat it, then everything will change a little except the essence. Let's say it will not be an AK, but a double-barreled shotgun, what's the difference? Even a blunderbuss is better than a bow and allows you not to hide from opponents too much
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3 hours ago, Roland said:
It always comes back to the fact that min/maxing the game and focusing completely on efficiency ruins replay value of the game because for min/maxers there is simply only one conceivable way to play the game-- the single most efficient way. The irony of the min/maxer argument is that no game can be designed to have multiple absolutely perfectly balanced efficiency pathways. One method or strategy will always slightly edge out the rest and so that will become the new one and only way min/maxers can play without "lying to themselves and deceiving themselves" about how to play the game.
Thus the only way min/maxers can get much replay value of the game is to convince the developers to change the balance so that they have another new brief puzzle to solve. Three weeks after a new update the new most efficient strategy emerges and once again the game has no replay value for them. We have seen it time and again over the years as those who care only for efficiency complain that they are "forced" to do X by the developers. Sometimes X was upgrading blocks, sometimes spam crafting, sometimes killing zombies, sometimes spam questing, ...one time for a couple of weeks it was chopping down grass thanks to a bug.
I'm glad that I enjoy playing the game at a variety of settings and without regard to efficiency. The developers have designed the game to be replayable through conscious player choice --sometimes by changing settings, sometimes by choosing self-limits, and sometimes by choosing challenges and goals. When you don't care whether the way you are playing is the one solution to the efficiency puzzle you can suddenly do whatever you want.
And the great thing is that I'm just having fun and it isn't that I have to self-deceive at all. I just plainly don't care whether the choice I want to make is or is not the most efficient. The min/maxer can't comprehend that I simply don't think about it.
So, @bachgaman, there has been another balancing pass to traders for pricing of goods, types of goods sold, and rewards for quests for A20. There has also been a pretty significant change to loot in general. It might be enough of a change to create a new puzzle for you to solve. I hope so, since I want everyone to be able to have some fun with the game.
Man, you put the minmax label on me again as you understand it. But if I was minmax I wouldn't run without traders, I guess I would not ignore the obvious exploits that allow me to get an advantage, I would not drop LCB at the beginning of the game, and so on. You don't need to think that the world is black and white
I understand what you are talking about, you are partly right, but there are different degrees of deepening in minmax. You are talking about the most extreme form of the fulfillment of this desire
3 hours ago, Roland said:The answer for you is never. You cannot suspend your need for an optimal path. Bow and stealth will never be an option for you.
For someone else the condition would be that they wish to challenge themselves by playing a game using bow and stealth and play as that type of character. For that person it would be fine because they would not be constantly preoccupied by the opportunity costs and self deceptions over how quickly they could progress using other means. For you it would be disastrous.
Thus, you admit that bow and stealth are notoriously worse perks than barter and adventurer. Thanks. This was the topic of discussion.
3 hours ago, Roland said:They are currently balanced in such a way to anyone not obsessed with optimal efficiency.
And here you amusingly avoid admitting that they are simply unbalanced.
3 hours ago, Roland said:A player not obsessed with efficiency and who is playing stealth/bow won't have an AK-47 and several hundred ammo on day 2 because they will be going through the quests more slowly and stealthily and probably choosing other ways to spend their money. They also won't hear a voice in their head yammering on and on about a much more efficient way to play the game than they currently are playing. Instead they will be having fun taking the game at their pace, popping those day 2 zombies in the head with their stone arrows killing some in one shot and killing others with a few follow up hits but not caring in the least that maybe somewhere on earth another player started a new game at the same time they did and probably has an Ak-47 with several hundred ammo. That would kill you, we know.
Individual examples of bad players do not help you in any way to prove that there is a balance in the game. I'm not obsessed with efficiency, I just like making good choices. And I enjoy playing well.
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1 minute ago, Kalex said:
There is no completing the game in 7 days because there is no endgame. And unless you have xp gains seriously jacked up, you aren't completing skill trees in 7 days either.
For me, endgame is getting a base from improved concrete, reinforced doors, a truck, an auger, an electric fence, and so on. When you have no options for further development.
I did it easily on my last run through Pure Intelligence on Survivalist difficulty, 100% loot / XP, 1 point zombie speed boost, 1 hour = 1 in-game day
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2 minutes ago, dcsobral said:
You said that efficiency was being measured in terms of survivability per skill points. The effectiveness of the perks then should be measured by how suitable they are to that strategy.
Okay, let me know when you think through and test your strategy on Insane Nightmare and we'll talk about it.
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7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:
I understand that the trader impacts the game heavily, at least IF you decide to use it, but as far as I understand your critique is mostly against that and not against how the attribute and skill tree is right now. I mean, it's not like it's perfect and can surely be improved, but all in all, IMO the current skill tree can work as long as you don't come from a biased position by having played other popular games that made a different choice on skills.
You must understand that balance is relative. If now the main imbalance is in the trader, then fixing the trader everything will change places. However, I have already mentioned many obvious non-trader balance errors here and in other threads.
Many perk balance bugs can be fixed indirectly. For example, the "Well Insulated" and "Iron Gut" perks are extremely useless right now. Due to the fact that the game does not have a penalty for hunger and weather. If they were, then these perks would probably come in handy.
7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:Also, important to note, is that you're asking for balance, but you play at a level and with setting that are way out of the standard the game is balanced on.
That means that whatever TFP do to refine and improve balance, you'll never be satisfied because you already play the game outside the "normal" parameters.
I would like to play on the default settings, but if I beat the game on Hard difficuiltes in 7 days and lose interest in 12 days, what if I start on Adventurer. If you're talking about 25% loot, then I don't always play with it. It was an experiment and I liked it overall.
In general, where did you get the idea that such settings are something non-standard? Are they in the game menu? Yes. So what's the complaint? Am I changing the xml files?7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:Probably that would also be an error, since pure role playing is not good for a computer based game.
Yes, but people play RP online, SAMP for example and many other games
7 hours ago, Jost Amman said:By "role playing" in 7D2D, I mean: "creating a background for your character, in your mind, that you can then translate into attributes, skills and items/weapons you use".
In this case, I have already answered all your questions.
7 hours ago, POCKET951 said:We only have the Alpha 19 trader to go by, but based on previous discussions, the traders have been rebalanced for A20 and we will need to play it to see how it feels and if it needs further balance. I don't see much point in talking anymore about Alpha 19 trade because it will be different.
The game has a huge number of other balance errors besides the trader
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:I'm speaking from 8000 hours experience, and you?
8k hours and you still take Treasure Hunter in every game. My condolences.
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:Sure you can die of hunger
Nope
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:There's POIs without zombies
Very few and very poor
You will meet them on the street anyway
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:really trivial to make a base that will survive horde nights of any size, even without resorting to exploits
Not sure, but if so, then I congratulate you if you enjoy this gameplay. I'd rather make direct contact instead of running away
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:By going into POIs that have zombies you risk death unnecessarily, therefore it is not efficient. It's much more fun, but not efficient.
Let's admit that this is so. In this case, I am not playing according to the most optimal macro strategy. So what? How does this relate to the discussion on the effectiveness of perks?
7 hours ago, dcsobral said:I'm sure you are very good at playing in some ways, but you really don't know your way around 7 Days to Die. Feathers are trivial. Find a chicken, which are plentiful. Let a vulture find you, which is easy. You'll have enough feathers for any need. Oh, and the birds nest gave you too few feathers? Break it and you'll get feathers, and that's not affected by loot percentage. And why are you using stone arrows anyway? How long does it take you to make a forge? Once you have a forge, you have iron arrows. Stone arrows are just for day 1.
This is true. I'm sorry, I forgot that this was an Undead Legacy mod that removes the recipe from perks.
To be honest, I had more important tasks than chasing chickens for arrows in the early days. Then I found a weapon that was very competitive with bows.
4 hours ago, Kalex said:What the hell does any of that have to do with the useability of stealth and bows vs. radiated zeds on Warrior difficulty? Answer: absolutely nothing. If you are trying to imply that he is cheating things in, he is not.
Let's put it this way, while your husband sits in the bushes with his wooden bow and rags by the end of the first week, I ride a truck full of ammunition and weapons and live in concrete base. I'm talking about the results of this or that gameplay, about the speed of the game when i compare the variants of character development. This has a direct relationship with the usefulness of the bow and stealth. Bows and stealth do not allow you to complete the game in 7 days, but barter and adventurer do.
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12 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Your entire problem is with the Trader it seems, which I can agree with to some extent, but TFP have been saying for some time that traders will need to be balanced and refined, so it's a non issue for an alpha game. Now, can you take away the "trader factor", and tell me again how you would balance better the role playing part of the attribute/skill trees, assuming that the trader issue will be addressed in the future?
Man, didn't I answer this here?
34 minutes ago, bachgaman said:If the game did not have this broken trader rewards mechanic, the player would have the problem of accumulating ammo for the blood moon, and then, perhaps, bows and stealth would become the solution to this problem. Perhaps the developers would have been generous and would have presented an alternative solution of this problem. For example, you could become a courier between merchants to earn money and ammunition, or you could become an engineer and make bad ammunition from improvised means at the beginning of the game, and so on. These examples are conditional.
Btw I recently played a world without a trader and with 25% loot. In the first days and weeks I had very serious problems with weapons and ammunition. But I still didn't use the bow and stealth. The first reason is the extremely low damage of stone arrows. The second reason is the need for feathers, which are very few in the beginning when playing with 25% loot. I destroyed zeds with clubs and then sledgehammer, because the game has another OP perk - TREX. Due to the instant replenishment of stamina, you can destroy groups alone with melee weapon. But i have to admit that it was the infamous warrior difficulty. But with an increased speed of 1 point for all speed settings.
Honestly, I don’t know what problems will arise if a trader is repaired. But now he's obviously the main balance issue, it's true. I suppose that bows and stealth will still be left behind adequate solutions, but if we are talking about pure RP, then it all depends on what the main popular roles will be. And do you need to balance the game for pure RP?
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32 minutes ago, faatal said:
If the result you were looking for is an A on your report card. The result I look for in games is to have fun. Warrior is not fun to me, so why would I run around using anything on that setting. I actually prefer agility and stealth with some int, but I play with settings that make it fun for me.
Reasonable balance is a nice goal, but you can't please everyone.
I think fun is the ultimate goal of most players. The question is what is fun for you. I enjoy solving difficult problems, I'm sure someone likes to crush midgets being a giant, and someone likes to hang themselves on a chandelier by the balls
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Alpha 20 Dev Diary
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Cool. It remains to add a penalty for hunger so that there is some sense in doing this.