[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

40 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Real players are anyone that plays the game and has fun doing so.  It doesn’t matter if they play at the easiest settings or turn all the settings up to the max.  It doesn’t matter if they build a huge, complex base or take over a POI to defend themselves against the hordes.  It doesn’t matter if they go in guns blazing all the time, or use melee weapons a majority of the time.  It doesn’t matter if they spread their perks across multiple trees or specialize in one or two.

 

Real players are players that play the game; it is not defined by your playstyle.

 

The fact that some "playstyles" are only available only at low difficulty suggests that there is an imbalance in the game, so what's wrong with asking to balance them? You attack me like I'm suggesting that all melee weapons shoueld be removed

 

In addition, initially it was about making these abilities more interesting than 10/20/30/40/50% damage, I'm already tired of writing about this

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

8 hours ago, katarynna said:

 If you only encounter 1 zombie, sure. However, if you encounter a group of 4 zombies, it is 12 hits vs 20 on hard, with 1 less zombie to fight each time you kill one.

 

On easy, it is 4 hits vs 8, with one zombie dying and thus not still trying to hit you, with each hit. If you can't see that can mean the difference between living and dying for someone who is not very skilled at the game, you are just not looking.

12 vs 20 or 4 vs 8 thats still boring 50% 😁

8 hours ago, katarynna said:

And again, the fact that you believe a perk to be "such a crap" does not make it so for other people in other situations. 

 

People who don't do a lot of mining consider the mining perks to be crap. People who don't use the trader or rarely use the trader consider better barter and daring adventurer crap. People who stick to the town they make their base in would consider grease monkey a crap way to use points.

 

People who play solo would consider charismatic nature crap, since it only benefits multiplayer. People who live strictly off of scavenged food and drinks would consider living off the land and master chef crap.

 

You are confusing your perception of the value added by perks as the absolute value.

Mining is vital. If you don’t mine resources, then you don’t survive.

 

Barter and adventurer are just OP skills that allow you to get a crucible by day 10, and a drill by 18th.

 

Charisma is not necessary in a solo, I agree, but that does not make it weak, but just specific. What is important is that it provides unique and interesting bonuses.

 

It is impossible to live on canned food and drinks if you do not exploit death or the absence of a penalty for hunger.

 

Thus, everything that you wrote does not apply to real players, it applies to people resting in a near-creative mode. Also, all this does not make these skills boring and weak, such as 10/20/30/40/50% damage from a Javelin. You still don't understand what I'm talking about

 

8 hours ago, katarynna said:

I specifically said "larger multiplayer". adding 2-3 more people makes it more difficult but still manageable for me. Larger multiplayer (6-8) makes it much more difficult.

 

As for the stamina penalty, I have never seen a 10%. It is always higher. And many people use melee weapons efficiently and have fun with them. Stamina penalties affect them a lot. 

 

While you are unable to use melee weapons effectively and have fun with them, many people can and do. Those people care about stamina and thus food.

I specifically said "extreme example". And I agreed that in such an extreme situation there really is a need to improve this ability once for each member of group. Why are there other levels of this ability in the game if by the time they are learned, even a large group will not have problems with food?

 

Thus, according to you, the game makes already weak melee class, able to survive only on an easy level of difficulty, addicted to food, while people who have found a more useful use of their skill points do not need food. Very clever game design. Let's do a dull 10/20/30/40/50% Javelin and make the hunger penalty make them even weaker than others

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

25 minutes ago, katarynna said:

If you are counting the melee weapon perks as among the worst, then you are wrong about the "worst" abilities not getting better on lower difficulty. Lowering the difficulty increases the amount of damage you do per hit to the zombies and decreases the amount of damage they do to you.

 

Say a zombie has 100 health. On highest difficulty one club hit may do 20 damage so 50% more would be 30. On the lowest difficulty, that same hit with that same club may do 70 damage, making the perk give you a one hit kill. 

 

Percent damage increases are much more impactful at lower difficulties.

 

As for not upgrading abilities on easier difficulties, you are aware that people have different levels of proficiency at the game? Some people playing on the easiest difficulty do so because they are not particularly good at the game but still have fun playing it. They need the upgraded abilities to keep pace with the upgraded zombie types. Those players are just as valuable as you are.

So we have 3 hit vs 5 hits on hard

And 1 hit vs 2 hits on easy

 

Has the efficiency increased dramatically? Lol same ~50%

 

I didn't say that these perks need to be removed, I said that they need to be strengthened, and more importantly, not so much strengthened as made more interesting thanks to unique bonuses. And if they weren't such a crap, these players could rise above the easiest level of difficulty, right?

29 minutes ago, katarynna said:

Playing in a group is not an extreme situation. There are many people who are likeable enough to have friends. The recommendation of watching the grand spartan multiplayer series was just so you could see what a struggle food can be in multiplayer, and is far from the only example of this. I never have food troubles in single player, but in a group it is a noticeable increase in difficulty. 

 

Hunger causes stamina issues, which decrease both the amount of stuff you can get done as well as how much fun you have doing it.

I play party with 2-3 players 95% of time on my own dedicated server. We need food for the first two weeks maximum, then food in excess. And then we do it only for fair play, by and large it is not necessary to eat in game. 10-20% stamina penalty is laughable, especially if you're not into perverted with melee weapons too much

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

1 hour ago, katarynna said:

Perk balance is not done based just on insane difficulty nightmare speed zombies. It is based on all settings.

On a weak difficulty, a good abilities will not get worse. And the worst won't get better. Just the worst abilities will become playable since the game is easy. You might not be upgrading abilities at all on easy difficulty

 

The fact that someone is improving useless abilities on an easy difficulty level does not mean that they suddenly became useful

1 hour ago, katarynna said:

For example, you say iron gut is a useless perk. If you watch any larger multiplayer youtube series, you will find that it is a necessity. Food is much more difficult for larger groups, and iron gut helps them a lot. See Grand Spartan multiplayer series for example.

You brought an extreme situation in which he can be useful, but if they together pushing the fifth level of this ability then they are just noobs. A couple of people from a group with perks for farming and a chef will more than cover all the food needs of even a large group with the proper effort of all group members (searching for seeds, building plots)

 

Again, why they so need food in game if there is no real penalty for hunger?

 

To summarize what you wrote to me, we can say that these abilities are needed if player wants perversion or makes a video for YouTube. If this was intended by the developer, then I agree that I was wrong and I will say that useless abilities in the form of 10/20/30/40/50% damage are needed by this game, but in turn, I note that the real perversion is to use melee weapons and improving abilities for ranged weapons. This is the real level of content for YouTube

 

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

21 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I understand from your own words that if you have a more powerful alternative over a current weapon you are using then the weapon you are currently using no longer seems fun to you.

 

Spears are definitely not the most powerful but using a spear in combination with a club is just a lot of fun. Jab Jab Throw smash. Is it efficient and is the spear the most powerful option compared to other weapons? No. But it is challenging and fun to use.

 

 

Hey, can you see that I'm not just talking about weapons? Hello?

 

Even if what you wrote is fun, then, you must admit, is it possible without spending skill points for 50% damage? Have fun 1-2 hits longer btw

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

2 hours ago, Roland said:

 

You're a min/maxer. You will always be limited in playstyle choices when only the most efficient path is the only one that is palatable to you.

 

I don't always choose the most efficient way, give me a fun and playable alternative and I'll use it, but I am offered 10/20/30/40/50% damage on a lame weapon or 10/20/30% to break open a box that does not exist. Oh no, I guess I should rush 1/2/3/4/5 additional inventory slots already have them? After all, from this I get fun and demonstrate my flexibility (low skill) 

You still don’t understand what I’m talking about?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

54 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

Again, this is simply based on your playstyle.

 

For those that don't abuse the death exploit or use settings where loot is a rarity,   these perks are very useful.

 

Yes, I do fight with a bone knife at the beginning until I can get my hands on a higher quality knife.  Yes, I do perk into Deep Cuts.  Combine with Flurry of blows and parkour, I can handle anything outside of a 64 Z bloodmoon horde

 

Late game I am still using either a compound bow or crossbow with steel arrows / bolts.  With perks in both archery and Hidden strike, I can do a ton of damage to a sleeper every time I come across one.  And yes, stealth still works in quests and POI for the majority of the time. (there will be cases where stealth won't work).  The other times I trigger and then retreat to see if I can get the Z's to get bored trying to find me.

 

My last playthrough I ended at Day 123.  I was still using the steel club.

 

i never exploited death

nevertheless I never take these perks, because there are always incomparably more useful

 

 

I repeat, you can tell any stories from the Adventurer difficulty level, this will in no way change the fact that these perks are worthless

 

 

 

[ok ill start it - instant travel. good or bad.]

 

Just need to make cars as fast as they are in real life, not slow 15 kilometers per hour as it is now

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

Why is everyone arguing about usefulness of sledgehammers if I wrote about the usefulness of perks? And not only for sledgehammers, not only for weapons... 

Dear fans of using sledgehammers to kill single zombies, please do not aggro on my post, I am in favor for strengthening your favorite style of play, not for removing it

 

Javelin Master

50% damage for 5 level perk for bad weapon, srsly?

 

The Infiltrator

There are not many locked chests in the game, lockpicks are cheap, in the late game the drill replaces lockpicks, there are no bonuses other than the chance of being hacked, but could be given a bonus

 

Treasure Hunter

At least it gives a bonus to quantity of items, but by the time we get it, we will not receive tasks for treasures, it is absolutely not worth an improvement even by level one

 

Hunter Heavy Armor

We can find and buy level 6 armor, 25% penalty reduce too little

 

Pack Mule

High levels useless because on this time you already have enough pockets and bags not to improve this skill at all, i never take it

 

Well Insulated

Many clothes and there are no real penalties for cold and heat in game

 

Pummel Pete

Skull Crusher

You can tell your stories as much as you like about how you can withstand BM with one baton on the easiest level of difficulty, but these perks are too boring and too weak to swing in a normal game. There are always more profitable perks, and the moment you can max out these perks you will not need to use these weapons

 

The Brawler

Same

 

Pain Tolerance

Not entirely useless, but overall, is someone improving this? In my opinion, the game lacks a mechanic of damage reduction in its pure form and damage reduction in a percentage form. Another boring perk. No matter how you improve your sustain, you will never be a meat tank with a big club that can withstand a crowd of zombies.

 

Healing Factor

Not sure but 40 health points per day? Come on, you can just abuse death or eat 2 cans of canned food. At a high level of perk it also has no value, in battle it will not help and having the opportunity to take the fifth level of the ability you will already acquire first-aid kits. Maybe need a bonus to maximum health or a buff on all incoming healing at high levels

 

Iron Gut

At first glance, not bad. But why do we need to hold our breath at all? Does anyone have a problem with dysentery? Plus a 1-5% bonus is ridiculous. Even if this is a direct decrease in the chance of poisoning, then even at the last level of improvement you will not be able to eat rot or drink dirty water (why?) So all we get is 25% reduction in hunger and 50% of the duration of effects. Despite the fact that it is in the same branch as farming. Not tempting at all

 

Rule 1: Cardio

Good perk at the first level of improving, but why are there levels two and three? By this time, you will already have a transport, by level three for sure. The second and third skill levels require strengthening

 

Archery

Same as Javelin Master, very boring and weak perk for super bad weapons

 

Deep Cuts

Is someone really fighting with a bone knife instead of a club? or with a hunting knife instead of a grenade launcher?

 

Light Armor

Same as heavy, yes bonuses are better but in absolute terms they are same

 

Parkour 

What is it for? For those people who cannot jump over the cliffs in fifth level tasks?

 

Hidden Strike

From The Shadows

All stealth should be removed from the game for obvious reasons

In quests, you cannot use stealth due to trigger traps

In bloody moon, zombies always see you

Outside of quests and a blood moon, you hardly have any problems with zombies at all

 

Electrocutioner

Same as Javelin Master

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

29 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

I typically play on either Warrior or Survivalist difficulty with running zombies. Maybe it's because I have 4,000 hours in this game, but I can confidently say that I am better at melee than with shooting guns. 😜

 

Now if you're talking about Nightmare/Insane, then yes, I could agree with you that sledgehammers are really the only way to go.

 

Melee provides one advantage over all ranged weapons: they don't cost any ammo to use. I shared a screenshot of my horde night loadout and my base one time on the subreddit and somebody asked, "How do you have so much ammo? Did you spawn it in?" Nope; I simply use melee 99% of the time with my zombie encounters. (For specific details, I had 3 stacks of 7.62 ammo, 2 stacks of 9mm, and one stack of shotgun shells by night 7.)

 

Alright then. I'd suppose that is a more reasonable argument. Nevertheless by investing in the skill trees that melee weapons belong under you are outright increasing raw damage, so they aren't useless. But I would question anybody going for 10/10 of an attribute, melee or otherwise. (<------ As in, scratch my head at said individual's choices.)

 

Anyway, I'm done here for tonight. Apologies for the clutter @Roland

At the same time, you are only talking about clubs, but what about knuckle dusters, bow, spears and stun wands? Do you play with them? Do you improve perks on them?

 

This amount of ammo is not an achievement, merchants generously give ammo for 1st level quests. And you start to find them quite early. So I'm not surprised.

 

If upgrading club perk gave an area attack, knockback (not stunning) of enemy, attack speed or some stamina/sustain bonuses, but no, for 13+5 skill points you will receive double damage

 

In general, given that all these skills are used only at the beginning of game, it would be logical to remove or greatly reduce stat limitation from them (for example 1/1/1/2/3 strength for pummele pete) Then they could not have been touched

 

But armor crafting and some others still useless, 25% penalty reduce for so many skillpoints its a joke 

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

12 minutes ago, MechanicalLens said:

 

As someone who consistently uses every melee option in the game (minus stun batons, yuck), I can assure you beyond a shadow of a doubt that you are simply full of crap. To put it less bluntly, your claim that melee weapons are "useless" is completely unfounded outside of your own experience. I could understand your point of view if you were a new player and were just getting used to the game's mechanics and the feel of melee weapons, but unless I'm incorrect about this, you're not a new player.

 

If you don't like using melee, that's cool. I'm all for supporting players for playing the game how they want to play. But one tip I would give to anyone is to not judge the big picture based off of one's narrow window of experience.

 

 

Man, I understand that at the Scavenger difficulty level, you can successfully kill zombies with a torch, you don’t need to tell me that you are investing skill points in a spear playing at a high difficulty level and you don’t suffer from it. You only do this if you want perversions

 

Im also playing with a club / baseball bat / steel club (in the last game I found steel club at a merchant in the first week) early days. So what? Yes, I killed zombies with 2.5 power attacks to the head, spending all the stamina on Insane difficulty. It was very cool, but as soon as I got a double-barreled shotgun and after 1-2 days more a pumpshotgun I forgot about this club forever. And imagine, I didn’t spend 5-10 levels on leveling up possession of this passable weapon

 

You did not understand at all. I did not say that clubs are useless. I said that the club perk is useless. I said that perks for bows, spears and brass knuckles are even more useless. Perks for crafting armor are generally discarded skill points.

 

Ponder

 

UPD:

you quote very nice btw

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Sure, but your opinion was that melee weapons are useless, which would amount to an overhaul if they were of the same opinion. By the way, are pretty alone with that opinion in this forum at least, lots of people use melee extensively to save on ammo. That you have too much ammo at the moment so you don't need to save any is because a) the game isn't fully balanced and b) you are an experienced player playing vanilla.

 

Yes, they are useless, you will use club for a maximum of the first week and only against a small number of opponents, if by the end of the first week you do not have at least a blunderbuss and a pistol with a sufficiently large number of bullets, then you were doing something wrong

 

Now tell me where you will spend your skill points in the first week? Are you going to improve clubs knowing that you will receive a double-barreled shotgun in a few hours? Perhaps you will spend 1 point, then you will take more useful skills. And when you take on vital skills you will already have such an arsenal that you will not pick up either a club, a spear or a brass knuckle. This is what we are talking about.

 

Mind you, I wrote not only about melee weapons, but you chose this as the most unfortunate example after all, besides melee weapons and bows, there are a bunch of dull weak perks and you know this if you play this game

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Mods are in an early-alpha state as well 😉. They have to adapt to a changing vanilla every time a new alpha comes out which takes time. Generally mods will trail vanilla in polishedness for quite some time because modders are more interested in features than polish and because they don't have the sources and need to work with the interfaces exposed to them are limited in some things. Don't expect them to code a new AI any time soon for example 😉. Since alphas don't change as much low-level stuff the quality of mods has improved though. I don't like all the changes that Darkness Falls does but in terms of polish it made a big leap in the last year. Can't speak about other mods yet, this is the first one my group tried in A19.

 

The installation system will improve but only near release of the game, TFP plans to use steam workshop

I played DF too and GnaMod. There are very good ideas, but the implementation is so-so. Personally, I don't understand why you mention modifications at all. Very comfortable position. Do you want a feature? Download the modification. Cool and very convenient. This is how you can answer any wish.

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

Players using intentional death happened with all versions of death penalty TFP tried. At the same time it can't be too punishing so it doesn't lead to death loops happening that would happen to new players. So the death penalty is a comproise like a lot of stuff in the game

 

I partially agree, but first of all, the game has quite flexible settings on very many points. This could be one of them. Second, I offered an elegant solution to the problem. Mode with 1 life, but with a save function. Thus, the player will try to survive, but will not be very upset after dying. And he will not be able to abuse death. All goals achieved

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

They try to hit blocks in their way. IF the player is lower than them they will hit the ground as well. AI is very difficult in a voxel world, I hope they add a value function to blocks nearer to the player but it is not sure if the 2 programmers involved in AI ever get the time for it as they have the difficult task to make bandits act well. Which is a task that will probably occupy them for a long time.

I agree, this is hard work. If it's not possible to make high-quality AI, so you can make them dumb but strong. You can make zombies with 10,000 health, but that's not very cool, right? Therefore, items such as 1, 2, 3, 5, 6, 13, 14 appear. 

 

Although it seems to me I did not offer anything complicated. Maybe I'm wrong, but I think it's not difficult to make sure that all the zombies don't pound into one door.

52 minutes ago, meganoth said:

In previous alphas people would farm zombies for loot, i.e. intentionally let zombies spawn (through screamers) to get easy loot. The devs said "We don't want a loot delivery service" and removed that. I'm pretty sure it won't come back. Except in mods, some of them increase loot bag frequency.

 

Easy to fix. Loot drops only from the first summoned horde. Is it difficult to implement programmatically? I don't think

Now people can abuse witches for farming experience in same way. Why didn't experience for killing zombies be removed?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

7 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

Do you divide all the players into hardcore and casual?The third is not given?
And after that, you want criticism?Seriously?

 

 

I only see that you do not write anything in essence

 

You said that there are more important things, I asked which ones - you ignored

 

You called my suggestions of delusions not related to reality, I asked to justify, but again you are evading

 

I think it makes no sense to have a dialogue with you, casual gamer, if only because, according to your own words, you could not understand basic mechanics of the game in 50 hours by failing the game 6 or 7 times, because you are asking the developers to make it possible to disable the "stone age"

 

It is sad that developers are always guided by people like you, because people like you are majority, goodbye

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

33 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

For this reason, you don't need to change vanilla globally.

Where do you see proposals for global changes? By and large, I only suggested weakening imbalance mechanics and strengthening weak / useless

Hardcore mode is a separate checkmark for people like me, the same checkmark as creative mode for people like you. Even minecraft has both

2 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

1. Your "suggestions" have nothing to do with reality. Why so you have already been answered.

Why? Can I get detailed constructive criticism on each item please?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

2 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

Your opinion can be written in the appropriate topic.
You wrote all this in the A20 development discussion thread.
How can this be understood in any other way than as a suggestion to change the game?

 

 

1. There is direct communication with the developer. Other people write their wishes, offer their ideas, ask questions, but you decided to find fault with me. Funny

 

2. This is a proposal to change the game, but I am smart enough to understand that my voice is only one out of hundreds of thousands and I do not seriously count on at least some influence, but since I can, why not try?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

55 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

Generally you should know that a) the game is already half in a beta state, there is still the important feature "bandits" missing, but in general this is the game that will be published, so for example there won't be another big overhaul of skills and perks. And b) that vanilla is considered the game for new players, the intro. Players that have played the base game enough to get bored are expexted to use difficulty settings and especially mods. If you want more difficulty, just test a few overhaul mods, most of them ramped up difficulty.

 

Some comments to your points:

 

3) Lots of death penalties were already tried in previous alphas, I see no indication they want to change the death penalty again (but hey, who knows, changes like these can happen out of the blue, just not likely)

 

4) Some zombies not following the path is already in the game, a few always go into destroy mode.

 

9) Occasionally you can find stuff on zombies (a yellow backpack). But stuff on every zombie was already tested in a previous alpha and removed because it was endless looting work after a horde night

 

12) vehicle speed is limited by minimum PC speccs, as well as concurrent zombies spawned for example. A low end PC has to load world data fast enough so the bike isn't stopped on section borders

 

14) AFAIK there will be more special zombies, but the tank is already in, it is the demolisher.

 

 

Hi

thank you for constructive response

 

a) I didn't say that skills and perks need overhaul, the skills system is good in general, there are just dead branches and because of this, numerous items are dead, just need to strengthen weak and weaken the strong so that all branches of development are playable. I used wrong word. Not "rework" - better "rebalance" 

The feature with bandits sounds cool, I hope we see it soon

 

b) I didn't know that the game positions itself as a platform for modders. Why is it so bad with them then? I tried mods, to be honest, even the most popular of them seemed to me to be raw crafts in which there are many ideas, but few developed ideas. Curved balance, poor quality graphics, no localization and so on. Although there are a lot of good things. Also, I don't like the mod installation system in this game.

 

I like the vanilla version more even as it is now, I really like this game and what I wrote above is just problems in existing content. Notice in my post there are very few wishes about new content, I noted fairly fair shortcomings of the existing one. I could dream up anything, but this is not my business, I just gave feedback on existing entities and mechanics

 

3) but in this state, the game pushes player to intentional death. in turn, this devalues all survival

 

4) If so, then it does not help them to penetrate into the fortifications. I noticed that some of them hit blocks chaotically, but that's not what I wrote about. As far as I understand, when they are in this state, they do not try to get to player in a different way, different from the path chosen by other zombies. They just hit the ground. 

Isn't that so?

 

9) Yes, of course, I know about yellow backpacks, but they fall out quite rarely and, as I understand it, they fall out from members of horde, and not random vagrants. It's a trifle, forget it

 

12) Yes, I thought that the problem is in lags. They have to do something about it, because in the late game you have to travel very far and spend 1/2 of time pressing shift + W is not the most fun activity, driving in the game is generally simple, somehow clumsy and primitive I don't even I know. I understand that this is not GTA, but still.

 

14) Yes, you are right, demolishers perform such a function and I am very glad that they are in game, because this is the only thing that can cause me a problem in the BM.

I won't argue, and again, I'm not talking about new content, but about revising the old one.

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

32 minutes ago, mstdv inc said:

All I see is that you want to remake the game for yourself.
This is not correct.And I don't agree with most of the points.If you don't like something, don't use it.
There are more important things in the game than doing hardcore mode for 100 players across the entire community.

 

for example?

 

I did not say that I am writing on behalf of the entire community, for people like you it is written there that this is purely my personal opinion. I understand that someone wants to survive in survival game, and someone wants bazookas on first day with 10000% of loot and experience. By the way, there is a second in the game, but there is no first

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

On 3/23/2021 at 5:46 PM, Urban Blackbear said:

I really like the way upgrading blocks work now. Are we really just going to be making concrete blocks and putting them down in a finished state in the future? This is just my 2¢ but I like having the system be a little more in-depth and complicated. I agree that blocks should probably not down-grade when they reach 0 HP but not everything needs to be simplified. On the fence about waiting for concrete blocks to cure but I like being able to lay out a base in rebar and filling them with concrete.

 

In addition, it gives you the opportunity to create first a project that you can change without any problems simply by removing the reinforcement with the "E" button, and then concreting it when you decided that you did everything right. I completely agree, mechanics with reinforcement and its concreting is very cool