[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

Okay, that is a way to see it, I take back the sarcasm. Just to be sure, you know that dying removes XP, dying often would even prevent you from advancing in levels at all, right? It may be weak but the penalty is there.

 

Losing respect for the penalty depends on knowing and exploiting the internal mechanism of gamestage. It depends on the knowledge that gamestage does not increase over time if your level doesn't advance and that zombies don't get worse when your gamestage doesn't go higher. My opinion is that this should not be common knowledge, this is an internal balancing trick.

The last time I played with my friends, they died 40+ times in 40 days. Not because they are mentally disabled, but because they know that they will get nothing for it. And because of this, they don't try to survive. So when we finally built the base and took the bloody horde head-on, they practically caught up with me in levels. Such a punishment. If you play solo, then perhaps this can be considered a punishment if you ignore one nuance that you indicated below. The more you die, the lower the game stage and the easier it is to play. Haha. The game rewards weak dying players by making it easier for them to play. It's just great. Yes, along with this they find the appropriate loot, but does anyone care about that. What loot will give you immortality? Especially if you don't care if you die or not.

5 hours ago, meganoth said:

But there is another problem here, independant of this: Whatever you do with the survival part of the game there is no punishment that really changes anything until you have a goal you want to reach and dying moves you away from your goal. Why would someone care if he lost a level if reaching a certain level is not part of his goal?

 

The answer is two-fold:

1) Once bandits are in, there will be a bona-fide goal to reach: Kill the leader of one or both factions and possibly take their place. And I assume that those leaders won't be gamestaged so far down that you can take them on with a lvl 1 toon. And then even the weak death penalty we have now IS a punishment.

 

2) In the mean-time this is also a sandbox game and absent of a set goal you are supposed to choose your own goal.

 

* When asked to implement a "dead is dead" mode in 7D2D the developers (as far as I remember) said to just delete the game when you die. So one possible choice for goal you can make would be to stay alive until you reach a certain level and play "dead is dead". Someone doesn't have enough self-control for that? Sorry, that is his own fault, grow up,

 

* Other players simply set their goal at mastering an ability or make a well-proteced base that can survive demolishers or play until there is a feeling to have reached anything reachable in the game (i.e. quality 6 items, map explored...). Once you have such a goal, dying is a punishment and dying often can lead to you never reaching the goal.

 

* For other players dying for gain is simply not an option and every death is simply a failure, just not a complete failure. At the end of the game having died only once is a much bigger success than having died 5 times. This can be a goal as well.

 

So my answer to you is that the survival part in 7D2D is not completed, but true to it being a sandbox game too it already is a surivival game if you accept your responsibility to set yourself a goal, one possibility actually being "not to die"

Do not deceive me or yourself by claiming that this game may have some goals other than survival. Yes, for the first time it's really fun to build traps, build a car, or build a gyrocopter. But this is done in the first 30 hours of gameplay, and this is if you play slowly without looking at videos and guides and if you studying everything yourself. Ultimately, all these are tools for survival and nothing more. The only sign of all these and the "achievements" listed by you is the usefulness in survival. There is little scope in this game for truly ambitious non-survival goals. For example, for several weeks I was building a fully automated plant for the extraction, sorting and processing of ores in minecraft with some complex industrial mods. I didn't care about survival and it was interesting. In this game, there are no such possibilities even close. All you can do is a maximum of 30 hours of gameplay. The rest of the time you will repeat the past.

 

And about the fact that I have to recreate the game after death, okay, but what about in the group? I do not play this game alone. And why do you put some people's goals above others? Why is there an opportunity for some, but not for others? After all, I'm not the only one who would like to see the "1 life" mode at least in some form, there are a lot of people like me.

49 minutes ago, Roland said:

 

I get that you can't do a perm death when playing with a group unless everyone agrees that if anyone dies then everyone restarts so you can all stay together. But what about delete all on death? Do you play with that setting?

I have suggested ways to solve this problem. Removing things on death will bring a lot of negativity to the game, because items are usually shared. I think this will lead to the fact that some members of the group will stop taking good items and become just useless and will not enjoy it. I don’t play with it, although I thought to try it many times. In general, it was not about the fact that I suffer from a lack of hardcore mode, but about the fact that someone claimed that this is a game about survival😂

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

I must have missed where the game forces you to keep playing if you die.  7D2D does not force you to keep playing the same game if you die, that is the player's choice.

• Some people play like you do, if you die you start over - The game allows you to do exactly that
• Some people play where if you die, it resets everything - The game allows them to do exactly that
• Others like me make the decision based on how I died - glitch, keep playing; do something stupid, start all over - The game allows me to do exactly that

The game also allows you to modify the dying penalty if you want to be punished for dying, but keep playing.  I have seen a few mods that do that.

Expected response. Live your imagination, apply mods, apply manual editing of xml files, blah blah blah. I have already answered similar above. What if in Pac-Man the game didn't end after 3 lives, but continued for as long as you like? And to someone asking "Why can't you lose in this game? Why does it exist?" people like you answer "Well, you can decide for yourself when you lost. For example, after 3 deaths. Or after 1. Or after 10,000. Or as soon as you started this game." This is hypocrisy. I can just as well say that this game does not need a flying AI robot because you can imagine that you have one. Just imagine that it is. Why do you really need it? Imagine, imagine the new HD textures and twitch integration as if it exists. It's as easy as coming up with a reason to create a new world after accidental death. How about playing in a group? Should I fantasize that I have resurrected an ally? Or maybe the game is not needed at all? After all, you can lie in bed and imagine how you play 7DTD

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

9 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

For some self-invented definitions of "Survival" 7D2D is not survival. Very true.

 

I would say for most people there is survival in this game. There are players who even consider it too harsh (mostly beginners though, but vanilla IS first and foremost for beginners). And then there are those (often) experienced players who consider it survival light.

And then there is you. 😉

Survival without punishment for death and even without the possibility of turning it on is like Pac-man, in which you do not lose points and levels after losing all lives. Do you think Pac-Man would have been so popular in its day if its difficulty lay on the player's conscience? Well, it seems, he died 3 times, go to the main menu, start over. Or not. You can die as many times as you want and play endlessly. Very interesting.

 

Survival is when your main goal is not to die, not when you die to replenish food and water supplies, or to avoid looking for antibiotics. Survival is a struggle for life, not an exploitation of endless free resurrection. L4D2 is more survival than 7D2D because you can die and lose. And you have to complete level from start again. 7D2D is not survival because you only gain by dying, not lose. If you have a definition of survival that contradicts what I wrote above, then I will be glad to see it.

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

On 10/3/2021 at 9:16 AM, Aldranon said:

7D2D is a specific type of survival game and it seems that its not exactly for you.

There are many games that are different enough that might be more appealing to you.

 

One game is free and was made in 17 days on a bet (basically).  Not an overarching survival game but more of a shooter.  It's surprisingly good for the time invested.

 

Oh right. the name is: 死寂 Deathly Stillness

The 死寂 is basically resaying the title:  Die Quiet

Survival in a game where there is no punishment for death, but there is a reward? Survival in a game where you don't get the penalty of hunger and thirst? Survival in a game where a pipe bomb, which is made for the cost of 1 hit of a pickaxe, is able to stop any enemy? Survival in a game where you are given 600 bullets a day from day one? What are you talking about?

 

Sorry, but even Muck is a more survival game, while 7 days to die tries to please everyone and the result is a mess from which you can only make content by resorting to modding and manual file editing. If you think the vanilla version of the game is survival, then I have bad news for you. This game is great, but it's not about survival. And the developers are clearly moving in the wrong direction. They indulge everything except the survival aspect and everyone who comes into it for the sake of survival will be disappointed (except those who would have to survive even in the Sims)

[An idea for an INT build from start: viable?]

The branch of the intellect is already too strong, so I don’t understand what to think about here. Barter and Adventurer are totally overpowered broken perks. Electric fence and darts are able to stop any wave with almost no help from you. Well, everything is clear with transport. Intelligence clearly requires a nerf, but they also adding a flying high-tech AI robot, which will surely be OP too. haha

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

3 hours ago, TWORDY said:

I may look forward to changes proposed:

 

Possibility to determine the minimum and a maximum number of traders and their visibility on the map.

 

Specialized traders - players choices might become more randomized, the gameplay is naturally longer, even more difficult - fun or frustration inducing factor of the game that depends solely on personal preferences and the idea of game balance - the items have to be more meaningful than it is now in such scenario.

 

Option to punish severely the player on death in the server/map settings.

 

Option to have "1 life" or "dead is dead", possibility to "resurrect - for complete chickens in certain scenarios", - but issue a visible warning to a player that may go mental over his death.

 

Additional settings may bring some challenge to players who have been playing 7DTD for 5+ years alongside the "progression" and "grind curve".

This is all very cool, but most users will not understand this until it appears in the announcement. It is customary to eat what they give. So good luck with the xml files and mods

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

4 hours ago, Laz Man said:

7) Feral Sense Game Option

• When turned on Zombies can sense the player from much farther away and stay focused on the optimal path to where the player is
• Stealth still works but zombie senses are heightened so stealth play is much more challenging
• Settings are: Off, Day, Night, All

That is, they simply increase the radius of vision and this is called an update, amazing

6 hours ago, Loboling said:

I'm doing a no trader modded romero mod, and some vehicle & weapon expansions. Wandering hordes every 1-3 hours of 8-40 zombie. Insane difficulty. I spent my first day setting up outposts, one in a poi, but another is just a scaffolding I built, that I can run to in an emergency. I'm still just getting started on the playthrough, but my win condition is getting a gyro and flying off the island. Permadeath. No repair kits in loot, and now costs 100 forged iron & 100 duct tape. 50% loot.

Yeah it's tough

8 hours ago, Roland said:

He doesn't literally or figuratively chain me to anything. Playing for incredibly high efficiency makes me gag...

 

If YOU are chained then by all means remove that trader and more power to you. I'm not addicted nor am I susceptible to efficiency by a long shot.

Obviously I'm talking about playing at the limit of possibilities, when the game is difficult and requires concentration and the most effective decisions, what's the point of writing about easy walks in a creative mode? I have nothing against it, but this is a completely different game. I'm glad for you that you are able to see interest in this, I see interest only in overcoming difficulties

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

2 hours ago, Ramethzer0 said:

Congrats.  You learned how to use your toggle settings effectively.

Funny, but the most important actions are not in the game settings, such as deleting the merchant and disabling recipes from perks. If I could achieve this without resorting to mods and manual editing of the POI list, then I would not create this thread.

3 hours ago, Roland said:

I simply delete the starter quest at the very beginning so no free 4 points and no GPS to the first trader. I also challenge myself to stay within a km of my starting area until I make a bicycle. Once I do find a trader I do only one job per day.

The problem of the trader is not only in the early game, but also in the late one, because he literally chains you to the nearest 5th tier building and you go crazy visiting it over and over again and you can't help but do it because it has incredibly higher efficiency than any other activity.

3 hours ago, Laz Man said:

Lots of cool challenges, gameplay styles and mods.  Its what makes this game great.  Once you guys get A20 you will also have the added challenge of feral sense to test your survival skills against...:p

By the way, I didn't really understand these changes in the A20, because there are already feral zombies. Those fast @%$#s with burning eyes. What are they going to do with them?

[I finally found a way to make the game interesting]

Since, obviously, nothing of the proposed will never appear in the game, I reasoned that since I do not like the fact that the game forces me to repeatedly grind the same sad quests (because the trader's rewards are too high and it takes very little time to complete quests located close to the base) i have to simple delete the trader.

 

So, 

1. I removed all traders from the POI list

2. Installed the Undead Legacy mod (since it, among other things, removed the free opening of all important recipes in the game just for levels, here you can die of hunger and here there is at least some kind of death penalty. I think UL is best big mod btw)

3. Reduced the loot to 50%, disabled loot respawn, set the difficulty level Warrior (there is even no need for the Insane difficulty level at nightmare speed, without 600 rounds (for three people) for each completed tier 1 quest, it becomes quite difficult to play)

 

And voila, the game became really fun and interesting. We've been surviving for 40 days now, looking for food, moving around a huge 12kmap, looking for a claw hammer to create a workbench (lol), all the time trying to figure out how to defend ourselves against the bloody moon based on what we have, do what we want instead of a stupid grind of quests, we have the option not to push the int attribute for the sake of the imbe perks associated with the trader (Barter and Adventurer). We save ammo, and this is my first time hunting with bow in this game and so on. In general, the game has become unrealistically cool.

 

I advise everyone to delete the trader and play with real pleasure as true enjoyer.

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

7 hours ago, jeromeN7 said:

So the tier list of pistols goes -> Pipe Pistol -> M9 -> SMG?

And the explosive weapon list goes -> Pipe Bomb? -> HE grenade? -> Rocker launcher?

Maybe it's just me, but it's a bit strange for throw-able grenades to be in the same tier list as a rocket launcher.

More crazy and some reasonable ideas.

Depleted uranium ammo, more mass equals more recoil and higher kinetic energy.

What about some anti-tank rocket launcher ammo, possibly depleted uranium...

How about incendiary grenade launcher ammo, and HE incendiary grenades, yeah right...

Oh and don't forget to add a Fallout style mini nuke launcher.

 

I believe that any explosive weapon in the game should be very much weakened, it should either do much more damage to blocks (not 5), or do much weaker damage to zeds, or should become very expensive. The best thing is it all at once. The presence of super strong and cheap pipe bombs breaks the game completely

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

Has anyone watched the stream on September 8th? Did they share something interesting or just discuss twitch integration, sickening HD models and console controls?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

Do you think the upcoming update is worth 1.5 years of expectations, or will it be disappointing?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

Second patch for useless (only for me, I believe mostly all players use this thing) twitch integration looks like devs mockery 😁 2 months for localization 

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

5 minutes ago, Swiftpaw said:

Confirmed: releasing tomorrow

 

ALL ABOARD THE HYPE TRAAAAAAAAAAIN CHOOCHOOOO

Srsly?

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

Spoiler

 

 

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

7 hours ago, Gobarg said:

I chopped a tree down and killed a zombie.  This should be an achievement! It's awesome

You reminded me of one thing when my friends and I first played 7DTD we had a base in the form of a building with a fence around which there was a moat. And on one of the first nights, the zombies broke a tree that grew by the fence and it fell on the roof of our house. At that moment, I was simultaneously shocked and delighted with the genius of the game, thinking that the zombies deliberately knocked down a tree in order to use it to climb onto our roof. Unfortunately, after a few seconds the tree disappeared into thin air, and I got a little upset

[A few A20 Stories]

On 7/10/2021 at 5:54 AM, Roland said:

Worse...you now fail the quest if you leave the area

It was in A19, good tester

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

On 7/9/2021 at 8:39 PM, Outlaw_187 said:

& The occasional bloated cop who spits at you & blows up wrecking stuff around him after taking too much damage!

Yes, but you will never meet a football player or cheerleader.

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

10 hours ago, Outlaw_187 said:

Yes, we need this!

but in life you do not meet clowns on the street, in life you only meet Festering Corpse Departed Woman and Infected Mother

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

8 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Never did. I just copy-pasted questions about the drone from the Steam forums, as I often do.

I guess you assumed that because you can't imagine anyone willing to help a fellow player finding answers.

 

Also, a flying drone is much more doable than whatever those other guys were asking... at present there are already drones you can buy on-line which can fly and follow you with an integrated camera. So, it's not difficult to imagine that after the apocalypse you could find parts and put them back together to build a ragtag drone.

Logic elements AND and OR are the basis of electrical circuits, these are common, very common things called "relays". By the way, there is a relay in the game, but this is not a relay in its function.

Sorry, but in fact, this device is much simpler and much more common than a drone and is often made on exclusively analog components.

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

22 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

I completely disagree with that crap... maybe it's good for a mod, but 7D2D theme doesn't fit IMO.

I like the ragtag look and feel of everything we use to survive. NotD devs just add stuff because they can, it's becoming a high-tech sci-fi game instead of a survival struggle.

It seems to me, or did you not so long ago advocate for a self-made flying intelligent robot? 😂

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

On 6/29/2021 at 10:09 PM, hiemfire said:

I may have missed if this has been brought up and responded to previously, but are you planning on revisiting the set bonus for the Shotgun Messiah magazine series with the removal of downgrading blocks? Being able to inadvertently drop a poi on your own head while fighting sleepers thanks to stray pellets seems less like a bonus and more like a liability. Having someone else willfully do so out of spiteful glee on a pve server is also something that should be considered.

the developers play with spears and brass knuckles, not with shotguns, so I guess not

[A20 Developer Diary Discussions]

3 hours ago, mstdv inc said:

It looks terrible and disgusting.If I want to play horror, I will go to Rezident Evil.
"TITLE: 7 Days to Die GENRE: Action, Adventure Games, Indie, Role-playing Games, Simulators, Strategies, Early Access DEVELOPER: The Fun Pimps PUBLISHER: The Fun Pimps Entertainment LLC RELEASE DATE: 13 Dec. 2013"
Show me the word horror?I don't see him!Instead of making HD models of old zombies and adding variety, you draw some kind of ugliness!

You are partly right, I would have preferred the old fat man in the Hawaiian shirt, but in the elaborate HD version instead of the new disgusting freak. But I disagree that this game is not in the horror category. There's just a difference between fear and disgust

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

1 minute ago, Laz Man said:

The people who work on the drone are not level designers so there is no either or when it comes to the drone vs more POIs.

 

Hopefully all of the new POIs in A20 will keep people entertained for a good while as well as all of the other planned features on top of that....😃

Please show me where I wrote about level design? I didn't ask for more points of interest

[Alpha 20 Dev Diary]

5 hours ago, samljer said:

@faatal @madmole

 

Would it be possible to have the quests randomly selected based on POI and not distance?

 

Right now, it seems you always get the same few quests, same buildings. say (skyscraper_02 and skyscraper_01) for say "Jen"

go to a different trader, and you get a different set, but always the same for each trader. (Hospital and waterworks) for "hugh"

 

also, allowing hand-ins for non-retrieve quests to any trader would also be cool.

 

we play 8k maps almost exclusively and once you do a few you always get the same quests at the same spots for the same, same, same, etc.

 

 

I just think having the quests randomly chosen  based on what they are, and not where they are would open the map up a whole lot more.

For obvious reasons this could (probably should) be a feature limited to Tier4 and Tier5.

 

 

 

Other peoples thoughts as well pls?

I agree that completing high-level quests is very dull because of if you have a base, then regardless of the size of the map, you are forced to do the same quests over and over again. As a rule, of these several, 1-2 are chosen that are most convenient for grinding, and in the end you repeat the same POI until you get bored.
As a result, the game gets boring very quickly. Here is my solution to this problem, but they are not very interested in it, they are interested in making a flying robot, lol. As if it would be much more fun to grind the same factory with him.