Lasher

Unfortunately - This - and it's a huge shame. What's also galling is that most of the answers you'll get to these kind of problems are to either completely change your play style, use odd work arounds or eventually you'll just have to mod it. The new system doesn't work as evenly across the board for all playstyles. But I guess they just don't care.

Plenty of folk were worried that this was going to be the problem. In solo play the new system doesn't have these effects - it's got it's own issues certainly but it's nowhere near as critical. Once you're playing as a group this can really make some players feel like they're being left behind. I just can't quite imagine why this wasn't considered in the first place - it's not like they weren't warned about the possible effects.

Couldn't agree more. "It's in Alpha" is the usual poor excuse. The NPC mod has allowed you to have bandits for quite some time - Why can't TFP do it... well because they're still too busy throwing game mechanics at the wall to see which one will stick... I play regularly with a group of people and between us we have literally decades of experience in programming, gamedev, appdev, 3D, production and film. Not a single one of us can understand why a game of this scope has taken this amount of time to finish. I don't excactly know what the problem is at TFP - but there certainly is one.

Again- This.

This is the point of the coversation - how do people think it sghould work - what can be done to improve it? Cheers for the input zztong.

Unlike you I didn't have to go and look up logical fallacies on wikipedia. Someone deving a game better? Now it's my turn to think you're not being serious. You'd be hard pushed to come up with a game being deved WORSE. You actally want examples of better deved games? Firstly - everything - but how about Valheim Grim Dawn Deep Rock Galactic V Rising Last Epoch Or 90 of the titles out there. Go look at Spacebourne 2 - That's an example of a small team - and look at the progress. And they don't use early access as an excuse for not getting the job done after selling milions of copies. Again I really don't want to argue it with you - you don't have an arguement.

Yeah - but you don't half crash a lot... Oh wait, you meant in the game didn't you...

Not at all - I'm happy to be quite open about what my intention was - and I think your effort to suggest that I was attempting to "Steer" voting is highly disingenuos. By all means make another poll and word it however you like - I'm more than happy about it. I think the only "Dripping" going on here is your quite obvious distaste for the results. As for my preference - I'm quite open about it as I've stated before - Perks worked for me as did LBD but there's some problems with both. I literally just responded with the post that you yourself quoted detailing my problem with the new system and also suggesting ways that it could be improved. It's supposed to be a constructive debate. I don't see you doing much except attemting to be snarky and accusational. Grow up.

Go right ahead with your assumptions - only they're not assumptions - they're logical fallacies. For a start you've attempted to straw man my argument by making it over simplified "Oh, it's just trolling" - logical fallacy number one. It's not just that the game has taken 10 years. It's that the game has taken 10 years, still seems to be unsure about it's direction in many areas and is still using "It's in early access" as an excuse for any problems. Secondly you've decided that it's perfectly fine for a game like 7 Days to die to take 10 years to develop - you can't believe otherwise - thats the Personal Incredulity fallacy - also present in your statement that I "can't be serious". I'm very serious - and if you want to shill for TFP that's up to you - it's a very common modus operandi on these forums. Thirdly you've decided to make it all about me - "Trolling", "This guy", "Stay in character" - that's what we call the Ad Hominem fallacy - supporting your argument by making it about the other party. You know nothing about me whatsoever - but stick to your "assumptions" Fourthly you've already used False equivalence - "It's ok for this to take 10 years because that took 10 years" - yet another failure of logic. You're really building yourself quite the collection there, but if you disagree with my opinon you might want to avoid reponding in a way that makes you look quite as silly as it does. Besides which you're clearly not someone that I want to debate with - I don't enjoy punching down.

Third option was really meant to represent the current system. I know we still have "Skills" as such that we put points into - but for me the way that works is even more bizzare - I put points into, for instance Sledgehammers, and that somehow makes me magically find more sledgehammer magazines? Why? It just seems a little nonsensicle. Surely a better way would be if when looting we found some sort of research papers that we could use to invest into ANY branch of crafting. That would also solve the co-op problem in that the research could be brought back to base and shared and skill investment would make no difference to it.

How is this about "Feigned aggro" or me being "Upset"? I'm sorry, do you know me? I wasn't aware that you knew me personally and were appraised of my mood. Perhaps when someone says something you don't like you should respond with a relevant argument in return instead of putting it down to thier mood. I was making a statement - 10 years and still saying a game is in EA is both poor and a joke. The fact that some other developer has been developing a game for ages is just a false equivalence. Pathetic.

So this somehow makes the 7DTD situation better? No - it's a joke - it's and still using the "it's in early access" excuse is just poor.

This. I know people like to respond with "games take time to develop" - but TEN years. Ten. Think about it.

This. Still trivial - just more fiddly. Pointless.

But horrible needless change is what you NEED in a game like this apparently - that's how you keep EA development going for 10 years... Anyway I'm sure if enough people say they don't like it then TFP will... oh, no... wait... they wont...

Very interesting so far - if people have other ideas, for instance hybrid systems then please post them here. I'm really interested to see what kind of system people think would work best.

Not knocking your choices at all. I'm sure plenty of players will have different opinons as to which system they prefer. Personally, I didn't mind Perks and I didn't mind LBD - both worked ok as far as I was concerned - but Learning by Looting for me is by far the worst system of all - in particular I think it ruins co-operative multiplayer by forcing all players into exactly the same progression path. But I'm interested in what other people think about it and I'm not particularly happy about the way many players very genuine concerns are just brushed aside. True enough - but won't it be interesting if the new system still comes out as least popular even so?

The real point is that I'm interested in what people think - plus I'm also a little tired of the fact that whenever anyone objects to anything that TFP do there seems to be an excuse that it's only a minority opinon so who cares. You've just pointed out yourself that you think that the majority of players will favour LBD, but again we have the excuse that this is "Skewed" Don't get me wrong - I dont think for a minute that TFP will actually take player opinons on board - they haven't and they won't - but I'd kinda like that to be nice and out in the open rather than any idea that when they make a mis-step they're prepared to do anything to correct it even if it's a majority opinion. It's simply not the case.

A little poll to see which of the progression systems players liked most...

Yeah - true enough - not that it would make a blind bit of difference anyway - but it would be funny to see the results.

It's interesting to me that every time TFP change a mechanic that people don't particularly like the feedback is that they're being "Narrow minded" and "Extreme". Yes players are still crafting and building, because they HAVE to - but what does the new progression system do for their progression I wonder? Here's an idea - seeing as there seems to be a general sentiment that it's a "minority" view - how about we put up a pole on the front page of the forums - "Which type of progression did you prefer - Learn by doing, Skill perks, Or the new Learn by Looting"? Now, I'm not suggesting that TFP would EVER change the system back based on player feedback - that's just not their way - we're supposed to play the game the way THEY want us to play it (the very definition of sandbox <sarc>) but it would once and for all put to bed the idea that these are "Minority" opinions by "narrow minded and extreme" players. I posted some time ago that people may not like these changes and was met with replies of "well we're sure they'll change it if people don't" - Nonsense. So how about a poll? Sound fair?

Don't worry - you'll only have to put up with it until Alpha 26 when they change the progression system yet again to some other bright idea they've had - instead of working on story, bandits or anything else that should have been finished by now... Of course by then they'll have got rid of mining tools and you'll have to dig up resources by hand because "it wasn't enough of the progression"... or maybe they'll introduce a need for you to go to the lavatory, but you won't be able to USE toilets, you'll have to MAKE one - but to do that you'll have to find enough plumbing magazines. Roll on 2026...

Ello chaps - an odd problem - not sure if anyone has any ideas... We're running the NPC mod with a few addons such as night watchers and various creatures and it's all working fine and spawning nicely. The odd thing is that once we're in an area for some time we seem to "exhaust" the place of zombies - it's particularly noticeable in the wasteland at night - when we first arrive there's tons of spawns but after a few nights nothing. Now I'm aware of the settings in the 7 days Spawn config regarding "respawndelay" and those for the wasteland at night are set to something like 0.001 of a day - so it shouldn't produce a spawn delay but still no zombies. Does the NPC mod have it's own version of respawndelay that I'm just not aware of? If not, does anyone have any ideas what could be causing this? Many thanks.

Another possible bugette - but it seems like th oil slicks can't be set on fire with flammable crossbow bolts. Is this intended? And talking of oil slicks, is it possible to alter their burn time in the configs? Thanks - and still totally loving this mod.

Oh god plese no - here comes Amazon with another "Good" idea... Lets hope they do as good a job as they've done with Rings of Power eh? After all we can all do with another pile of steaming hot garbage...