[You never sleep...]

Back when smell was in, the developers briefly considered having bathing be represented where you would periodically have to get wet and "use" soap in order to get rid of a smelly debuff that would attract zombies.  

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

11 hours ago, RipClaw said:

I would disagree on that.

 

It's also a big deal for the streamers who can participate in Streamer Weekend. They have to make preparations for that and they can't plan anything else for that time period. I have seen streamers who were accepted for the Streamer Weekend not being able to stream because they were unfortunately out of town. So at least for the streamers in the green room it would be quite handy if they knew 2-3 weeks in advance when the streamer weekend will take place.

 

They are getting direct updates and information through the event Discord straight from Prime and Crater Creator as soon as it is available. The streamers aren't looking for news in the dev diary thread or twitter.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

I think this past weekend would've been ideal for the summer sale if they could've been ready. It would be best to be able to finish up experimental and have stable A21 be the version that updates along with the sale instead of stable A20. They still might have time to get to stable before the sale as A21 is probably the most polished version yet but that window of possibility shrinks with each weekend that slips by.

 

That being said, marketing concerns are always secondary to programming concerns. It is exactly for this reason that indie studios exist and why working conditions for programmers in triple A studios are often criticized.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

2 hours ago, LilGraece said:

The moderators are our friends

 

We for dang sure aren't food!

[Is there a plan to return to survival horror?]

Fit its genre? SInce 7 Days to Die borrows elements from several genres to define its own hybrid style, I'm pretty sure that whatever it does is going to fit its genre. If you want to emphasize one particular genre like Survival Horror then you'll need to adjust your playstyle and/or change the settings and/or mod the game. It isn't sad. It's fantastic.

 

Survival Horror typically involves severe limits on ammo and weaponry and relies mostly on mood, setting, creepy sound effects and music, limited visibility, evasion, and puzzle solving. 

 

To me, pure survival horror would be doing a quest at Higashi Tower at night with a handheld flashlight and no weapons and the settings put to maximum difficulty so that zombie HP is too high for you to be able to actually kill them. They could be set to walk at night or perhaps jog but you would need to constantly run and evade, shut doors behind you, build barricades, get knockdowns with your fists to buy yourself time as you loot and try to accomplish the quest with relentless zombies constantly on your tail. Will you get cornered? Will something jump out unexpectedly from the darkness? That is what adds to the suspense. That would be closest to classic survival horror but I'm glad the game isn't purely defined by that. I can try doing it as a challenge or to get that survival horror feeling but then the next time I can go in with plenty of ammo and do it more like an arcade shooter or I can go in the next time and try to stealth as much as possible.

 

 

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

5 hours ago, Kiwi69 said:

 

Dear Mr. Roland, forgive my ignorance, may I know what’s your position/job title at TFP? And more specifically, what are your responsibilities on this forum? I’d love to hear this information if you’re willing to share it with us. I think it might clear up some misunderstandings, maybe? worth a try, right?

 

I am a volunteer moderator of this forum. I have access to the TFP team and know what TFP is working on but am not employed by TFP. I am one of a team of individuals who enforce forum rules of conduct and it is my job to warn people who are being unruly and if they ignore those warnings to ban them from the forum. Bans are always initiated by council and not by individual moderators.

 

I'm glad you have decided to participate fully in the forums rather than just lurk and I hope you can have a positive experience here. Happy to start over. Be my Chekov!

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

17 minutes ago, tman1up said:

I guess that make me a whinner

 

Or maybe a winner...

 

It is too late for this thread. Maybe the next one...

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

but isn’t the way the officials talk sometimes a bit too “casual”?

 

We don't have a caste system in the United States. Sorry.

 

Many people feel perfectly comfortable with officials acting and talking casually. I feel perfectly comfortable being an official who is glib, friendly, jokey, and at times sarcastic. If you don't like it then don't engage with me. As I stated before, until now, I have never spoken to you directly and really won't feel like I'm missing out if we never speak to each other again in the future if that suits you. Every post you have made so far has been fixated on me-- someone you've never directly interacted with before. If you don't want me to be "casual" with you then don't initiate conversation with me and just let others decide for themselves whether my style of interaction is something they are okay with. 

 

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

Like you said, from my perspective, if he had been a little more polite to other players at the time, maybe I wouldn’t have been unhappy?

 

When was I even impolite to someone? I'm at a loss here. And, again, it wasn't even to you? You got angry because of how I posted to someone else and not even THAT person has complained or spoken up for themselves? How can I even begin to possibly post in a way to keep you happy if you are going to not only feel insulted by imagined personal attacks against yourself but also vicariously for every one else on the forum.....? I know some people are easily offended but you have found a new level, my friend.

 

1 hour ago, Kiwi69 said:

Some people might think I’m being nosy, but that’s just me. If I see something that’s not fair, I have to express it. That’s legal, right?

 

So you just gotta be you but everyone else has to be the way you want them to be. Well....I just gotta be me.

 

 

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

What will it lead to? Is that a threat? 

 

No. Why would you take it that way? I was simply wondering whether you would choose to remain and post or go back to lurking given your attitude.

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

Are you role-playing or something?

 

What does this even mean?

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

You think that’s a pretty insulting post, but my question is “Are you doing any better than that?”

 

Uh....yeah. That's why it was such an insulting comparison. And I can say it without highlighting my text.

 

38 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

Did you guys see that?  Can you freaking believe that? So passive-aggressive all the time. OMG, please save me

 

What guys are you even talking to and what is it you think you need saving from?

 

Please, just post normal opinions about the game and stop whatever this is that you are doing.

 

OR ELSE!    (kidding!)

 

 

 

 

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

29 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

So, I actually lived in China for a while and played some games run by local operators there, like World of Warcraft on the Chinese server. Even with a huge company like that, I still remember how the official staff treated players on their forums. I mean, they treated players like crap and even deleted posts so people couldn’t speak up. You know, it felt really bad and I don’t wanna go through that again. It’s like a thing in China, which is pretty ironic.

 

So I guess by that low standard, maybe things are a little better here? It’s kinda frustrating…

 

This is a pretty insulting post right here by someone who is claiming to want civil discourse. In fact, the entire library of your posts so far are antagonistic. Why not start with a new community by being friendly and asking questions instead of starting on the attack and making accusations? Let me guess: Because you're the customer? 

 

heheh...we'll see where this leads...

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

9 minutes ago, Zaroff said:

 

TFP should update the fan base. Joel and Rick sounded pretty confident on mid may being the release window. They chuckled and at the mention of it getting pushed to June, indicating that Mid May would be the target date. Additionally TFP, usually don't show off new features in dev streams until it is pretty much ready for release. with the streamer weekend starting the weekend following the last dev stream. Clearly they jumped the shark on being committed to mid may for A21 release. A clear misstep. 

 

The annoying part is the deafening silence since the last dev stream. No communication letting the fan base know that May is now off the table and its looking to be June sometime. I understand that things pop up and I am not even mad that A21 is not releasing till June, but reading through some of these posts you can't blame people why they are upset.

 

I think a quick Dev stream or even a short YT video you can post all over the social media sites informing the Fan base where everything is at with A21 and provide a new projected release window would go a LONG way and calm the fan base down. perhaps if its in them a quick "sorry guys" would not be a bad idea either. show the fan base more things that are coming to A21. Don't ignore us. telling people there is a delay in the forums where <1% of the people that play this game go for information is not enough imo.

 

my 2 cents

 

Well....May isn't off the table. It's just looking pretty unlikely due to Memorial Day Weekend being the only weekend left in May. Maybe the developers themselves will put out an official "delayed to June" announcement on their Twitter once it is clear that it definitely won't be in May if that does indeed become the case. 

 

It really doesn't matter how much they joked and laughed about their release time estimate during the stream. It was clearly an estimate with the golden caveat of "as long as everything goes well" attached to it. It really is silly that anyone would be upset if the release doesn't happen until June unless they considered the estimate to be a promise..

 

I'm all for them doing a video or a tweet with an official update of where things stand. Whether that would actually calm anyone down or not is debatable. People only want good news even though they might claim that ANY news would be wonderful.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

I think it is time to move on from this topic. Please.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

20 minutes ago, DoctorB0NG said:

Unironically go touch grass if it bothers you that much.

 

Because you said that, now all anyone can do is touch grass ironically. My days of innocent grass touching are gone forever, thanks.

 

EDIT: I just read what I wrote and realized that I've most likely invoked Snowdog...

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

2 minutes ago, Guppys Fur said:

There was Talks about a Playtest Dev-Stream, why was this cancelled? Can we still get one please?

 

They're pretty busy trying to not continue disappointing you in those other areas you mentioned....

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

7 minutes ago, Kiwi69 said:

I have no idea what’s going on here. It’s no wonder a YouTuber made an entire video discussing this. Is it really okay for someone like Roland, who works in customer service or PR for a company, to speak to customers and fans with such arrogance and playfulness? I’m shocked that so many people are defending this person and their attitude. Is this some kind of Communist Party forum where only TFP is right? OMG… And don’t even try to tell me that being rude is part of your company culture. ‘Oh wow, this is so freaking cool in 2023.’

 

You guys can tell this is only my second post on the forum because I usually just lurk and browse. But this time, I can’t stand the arrogance. It leaves me at a loss for words. I don’t understand why I have to put up with such rude arrogance when I’ve recommended your alpha game to so many friends and even bought at least 4 copies myself. It just doesn’t make any sense to me.

 

 

I don't believe I have ever spoken to you directly. What arrogance are you reading into my posts? Your first post ever was a snarky quip about how the change of release window somehow doesn't count as communication and your second post ever is castigating me for the responses others gave to you that your characterization of what does or doesn't count as communication is extremely limited. I didn't say a word to you until now.

 

Here's your problem:

 

You think I'm a customer service rep in the same vein as some hotel clerk who must take whatever crap a customer dishes and always return a smile and a servile will to please. If you can't adjust your view on this then you're just going to continue to be angry and steamed as you read the forums.

 

You think that a video game site about a game dealing with zombies and irreverent humor while surviving should be as professional and sterile as a forum for St Jude's or the Mayo Clinic. If you think I'm not going to be playful with the subject matter we discuss then you are going to be disappointed again and again.

 

You believe Saven too ardently....

 

You are welcome to post and participate but only if you can get a bit more playful.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

3 hours ago, TheRealKrash said:

LMAO!! It used to say a21 release date: May

Now it says May-June

So next month it will be June-July?

Then what? July-August?

Right…and if we had kept it as May all the way to the 30th and then changed it to June you would’ve LYAO that we kept it saying May when we knew it would probably slip to June. 
 

Don’t you want communication?  It’s looking like June is as likely or more likely as May at this point so we updated the information to reflect reality. 

[Skyscraper Evil Kneival]

I tried it in A21 and the jeep lost about 20% health when I landed on the street. No biggie.

 

I tried it again and this time I hit the edge of a nearby shorter building and then a trash bin and then the ground so about  60% damage. 

 

I also tried jumping with only 11% damage and hit the edge of the building again and the jeep exploded as it made additional impacts before hitting the ground. I lived though.

 

So...solid health and a clean landing are important for Evil Kneivaling in A21

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, Burrfly said:

Well I'm sorry about posting these collages, however I did say in the first one that I was probably going to receive hate, which I really did get. That's okay. Was making them with good intentions, though 😔, but apparently it got received very bad. Said multiple times that I wasn't hating on you guys, but you did hate on me for trying to raise awareness. Cool.

 

No hate....but no vacuum either. You made yourself the spokesperson for all those voices you shared. That makes you the focus point for any disagreement over what those voices are saying. You and your people don't want the process to be one of subtraction. You only want it to be one of addition. You are calling upon the developers to see all these voices you found that match yours to convince them to end their method of removing and changing previous and existing features and instead switch to restoring what was removed and to only add to the game going forward.

 

Your message is understood and received. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

7 hours ago, Aldranon said:

 

THIS! 

This is exactly how "Damage Control" should be handled if a release day (or month) is missed.  (An approximate percent complete would prevent the need for it)

Like the police quote: "Just the facts, Ma'am".

 

No need to troll or counter-troll people who are annoyed and disappointed and vent something less than helpful.

94%

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

13 minutes ago, Prydonian said:

That is compelling evidence that you and I have verrrrry different play styles.  I would hate a base that auto-repaired. 

 

I wouldn't even call it auto-repairing since any and all reinforcements, pathways, funnels, fall-backs, crates of backup supplies, etc that you worked into the POI would be erased. It wouldn't repair your enhancements, it would remove them and you would have to rebuild and resupply all of them. If I ever got a quest to the POI that I was using for a horde base I would cancel it as soon as I saw the exclamation point sitting in my front yard...

 

But I think he was assuming that most players who take over POIs do it because they just want to quickly destroy access to the second floor and simply shoot from above and not enhance anything or add any defenses.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

Its looking more like June all the time. This weekend is most likely out if it hasn't been announced yet and next weekend is a big holiday in the USA (which TFP observes) so...yeah.

[Snakes should poison]

5 hours ago, ElCabong said:

Not something that would cost you hit points over time but something that would slow you down. 

 

As it is now, bang bang, I've got meat and hides

 

I approve. The more critical injuries the game can have the better. They should bring back food poisoning as well. Make it so the vomit chance doesn't start until you reach a certain percent of sickness so that there is some time to treat before it might happen.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

41 minutes ago, SnowDog1942 said:

And… As if it was impossible to create the same thing with extremely positive comments. Lol

 

It may be impossible simply from an execution standpoint. Happy players don't feel the same motivation to create a huge collage of positive statements. Only someone extremely motivated due to their desire for change would go through the tedium of cutting and pasting that many responses together--- twice! Then again, they do enjoy watching wet concrete dry....  

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

I'm not sure what the fuss is here. I've been changing it up between building my own base and taking over POI's since Alpha 6. There have always been concrete and brick building that offer a solid start to any base. Even before there were traders it was common for people (who wanted to) to take over POI's and use them as base starters.

 

I do it in about the same ratio as I ever did before. If anything, the incentive that drove me to more often build a base from scratch was when traders could spawn in the wilderness and there were no nearby buildings. Rather than traveling from a more distant POI that I could convert, I found it more convenient to set up my own base nearby the trader. Before traders it was pretty much as whimsy took me and ever since traders have been mostly showing up in cities it is back to that practice depending on my mood.

 

I remember when there was a cabin that spawned with an almost guaranteed working forge inside of it. We almost always converted that cabin to our base so there was an incentive that went against creating our own from scratch. But then all workstations were spawned broken and I think that cabin is no longer in the game or is so changed I don't recognize it anyway....so that could be seen as an incentive to just build your own place from scratch.

 

I really don't see much change in how people are pushed or pulled to build from scratch or reinforce a POI. Seems to still be simply a matter of preference.

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, Burrfly said:

Change itself isn't a bad thing, but I'm just stating that quite some people, including me, worry/dislike the fact that things are being removed.

And this is your and others’ big stumbling block to being able to enjoy early access. Cuts, removals, edits, and streamlining is always part of the creative process for unfinished works. Usually we don’t see those things as we only get games in their finished form. 
 

Movies are a great parallel example for this. During the editing process after all the shooting is done, there is rarely any more additional footage shot. It is almost always a process of deleting and editing out footage deemed unnecessary. 
 

The problem you have is that even though you understand that the game is not finished from an intellectual standpoint, you don’t want to believe it from an emotional standpoint. Updates during early access are not DLC expansions to a complete game. They are going to include removals that never make a return. 
 

As you say, for those who never experienced previous versions there is no disappointment or feeling of loss. That will be even truer for those who purchase the final finished product. 
 

After the game goes gold, any future updates are likely to be exactly what you want—pure content expansion. It’s very unlikely they will change or remove anything that already exists. Until that time, we are in the editing and streamlining phase and you either need to reconcile yourself to that or just put the game aside until the final product is presented. 
 

All of those negative reviews are from people who are either ignorant or don’t want to face the fact that the game isn’t finished and updates aren’t simply expansionary. They shouldn’t have participated at this stage. Early access isn’t for them.