Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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On 6/15/2023 at 9:02 PM, Survior said:
An efficient player will eventually overcome the artificial boundries of "mere survival" and establish a stash big enough to make as much glue as they want.
Thirst has always been meant to be overcome. This is exactly what the point of the change was so that both efficient and inefficient players could eventually establish a stash big enough to make as much glue as they wanted. Thank you for reiterating the design goal.
Did you think you were poking a hole into something…?
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30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:
Not just me but alot of folks. Btw there is another poll in general discussion where it's over 50% in favor of the old learn by doing system or does that poll not count?
I’ll let you convey my thanks to all of them but I’m just talking to you. The poll here counts for sure. I even defended the author for making it.
What’s interesting about the polls is that YouTube comments are historically more critical and hostile than these forums are and yet 3100 players showed an overwhelming positive first reaction. The 46 people(so far) in the poll here show a more negative reaction where most people are viewed as being more supportive of TFP decisions.
30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:Would also be nice to get an answer as to what the pimps will do about that massive problem since folks can bypass the whole tool and weapons magazine nonsense with that simple trick. Why waste time looking for magazines to craft tools and weapons when you can just stroll into the wasteland and loot vehicles for OP gear lol.
I don’t think they’ll do anything. They are fine with players going to the wasteland and looting and questing for rewards that bypass the crafting. It’s just an optional path. It doesn’t make the crafting progression useless if a lot of players want to go that route.
It’s funny that critics like you accuse TFP of shutting down player game play choices when TFP has never claimed that they want to force players to play the game only one way. Now it is YOU calling for TFP to shut down an entire option to loot in the wasteland because you see crafting as useless.
The answer is that TFP is happy to allow players to either craft, or loot, or purchase, or quest, or any combination to progress.
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20 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:
Yes because youtubers communities aren't biased lol. Love his channel but that poll is ridiculous. This update is mediocre.
Heck he has proven with his let's play so far that by day 8 you can have quality 6 items. So much for madmoles we don't want people getting OP fast by crafting 500 duct tape because was is easy to get nonsense.
So unless the pimps nerf drop rates, redo the skill system again or do who knows what the meta or strategy is spend a few days leveling and questing in forest biome, get bike and after day 7 horde go into wasteland, loot cars and get OP gear easy. Kinda makes all those magazines folks have to collect kinda useless if most of it can be bypassed so easily.
Thanks for your opinion. I really hope once your favorite mods get updated for A21 you’ll have a version of the game you can be happy playing.1 -
But….no….energy!!
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Here is an interesting poll external to this forum community done by Nerds Guns and Steel. Just a first impression poll of 3100 players. 😀
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30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:
No they are seen as exaggerated by certain folks on the team on folks who hold power here because they don't like bad feedback only positivity and no criticism.
It has nothing to do with positive or critical posts. It has to do with time after time after each alpha this person or that says the changes made their play style impossible only to be proven 100% wrong. My personal favorite was the supposed end of building underground bases that have since been proven completely possible..lol30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:the pimps can't bother bringing back learn by doing and making it into a hybrid with the attribute system like alot of mods have done
Why should they? The mods have already done it as you said. What’s wrong with having a variety of versions to play? If the devs just duplicate the mods then there’s just one version. Why so angry about A21 if you already have access to the version you enjoy? It shouldn’t be long before you can have A21 visuals and performance with your favorite alternative version of player progression. Seems like these changes shouldn’t even really phase you or affect you honestly.30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:This alpha so far feels like the last 2 years were spent making the game look pretty with little in the way of fun gameplay mechanics.
Why do you care if you already use mods? Seems like you could just ignore the vanilla updates at this point and just wait for your favorite mod update. Why so displeased in something you aren’t going to play?There are plenty of people who are pleased so they can be happy and you can be happy.
30 minutes ago, Slingblade2040 said:Huge thanks to the modders who keep this game alive and entertaining and fix up bugs and issues when they show up in mods.
Exactly! You’re covered. Be at peace.5 -
51 minutes ago, xbonedragonx said:
100% agree with this. Regardless of anything all you salty people think, and especially you @Roland, I've played for the past 7 years, and I've experienced so much time gating because you keep changing it to suit such a specific playstyle.
Whoa…Especially me? I’m not even salty….lol. I’ve enjoyed playing all the iterations and have been able to let each one go as each new one was developed.
Even if vanilla becomes so restrictive that it completely limits everyone to one single dev-approved play style, they have made sure to make the game moddable so that all players can still play the way they want to.
But here’s the thing. Reports of dead and destroyed game play styles are always greatly exaggerated during the first weeks of experimental.
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51 minutes ago, Exxodous said:
That's interesting. My wife and I play coop and we're on day 7. I think she already has 15 forge ahead books and probably 20 tool mags. I'm not even perked into them and I probably gave her 8 forge ahead books. Are you guys only looting food trucks lol (joking)
It’s all random. The perk boost is not a guarantee. You and your wife are flush with Forge Ahead mags this playthrough but could experience a famine of them next playthrough. It is different every time I play. Sometimes it’s parts I can’t find and sometimes it’s magazines and other times I have plenty of everything.
@Archer and his group could restart and have a gush of all the right magazines that new game. As expected, there have been people wondering if the perk boost is bugged and others claiming it is too powerful.
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8 minutes ago, Morloc said:
You're talking about you and the other Pimps?...or are you talking like the queen again?
/concerned 😕
-Arch Necromancer Morloc 💀
You should be. Our response to your affront to our person can only be, “Off with their head!”4 -
3 hours ago, Syphon583 said:
Good lord, it's been out for 4 days. You cannot tell me that after 4 days you can honestly (and fairly) make up your mind regarding a new progression system. Also given the fact that the game is in experimental and balancing will be a continual process for the next few minor releases.
How about we let it cook a little bit?
I encouraged him to go ahead and do the poll now when he first brought it up and then do another one after a few months. Some will initially like this new system and then grow to dislike it and others will initially dislike it and then grow to like it. We don’t know how people will like it for replay value after restarting a few times nor for long term games yet. We always get discontent people claiming that x play style has been destroyed by some change but then within a few weeks lo and behold someone figures it out and the play style turns out to be just as viable.
But it’s fun to see a snapshot of forum sentiment during week one. Nobody should feel threatened by any outcome of this poll. TFP doesn’t design by polls. They encourage mods by polls… 😜
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7 minutes ago, Archer said:
I just logged in to actually see what day & skill level everyone was at.
Still got my inventory.
0 skills now as if I've never read a magazine and I'm back at level 1.
Base is still there, inventory still there, and everything physical is still there but my character's skills and everything else are wiped to 0. Nothing is removed from the inventory of my character or from containers, but anything I've read, and everything I'd leveled from XP is wiped. So, I guess I can't tell you the answer now to what level we were, it's day 24 on the server. (P.S. - Not @%$#ing about it, I understand it's an unstable release)
Right now the forge ahead magazine is by far the rarest, we've found a total of 17 of those, but the medical magazines I think we've recovered like 60-70 of them.
The 'old school' books and mags that were already in the game seem to spawn at a normal/similar rate as before.
Lots of 'Tech Junky' magazines are popping up, too, seems to be a disproportionately high amount, I'm at like, level 37 in those?
Tool mags are spawning in 2nd to 3rd lowest rate which is preventing us from being able to build certain things.
Over the course of the past three days we've had anywhere between 6 and 22 players on the server at one time, last night was probably our largest crowd (we can't add more than 8 people to a party so we just end up making extras but would really like it if the devs allowed us to make parties larger than just 8 )
Bar Brawler, Batter Up, and The Fireman's Almanac seem to be everywhere as well, they're so abundant we also have stacks of them sitting unused.
The Great Heist, Hunter's Journal, Lucky Looter seem more or less normal rates I guess.
The problem that keeps happening right now is early 'bottlenecks'.
We keep needing magazines for another tool or item that we want/need to build in order to make other stuff.
At the moment - the blood moon isn't actually much of an issue, because we've only played the first 3 of them, so they don't start 'getting hard' usually until a bit later in the game (which to us was normal, and totally fine)
This forces us to stop working on the base, and go out to help the scavengers. PLEASE NOTE: if this is intended, it's not appreciated. We really did not want to be forced to go out. But the 2 of us (which is a skeleton crew of builders/crafters compared to usual) who are staying behind keep "running out of stuff to do" because we can essentially only do basic tasks with the limited options of tools and recipes available to us, which force us to just go out and look for more of these magazines so we can get back to work.
We always build the baseline outershell first obviously so we don't end up getting a bunch of breaches, but the interior where we organize, build rooms for crafting, storage, and processing materials from one into the next is essentially collecting dust and cobwebs. I can use the forge now which means I can melt stuff down but once that task is done, it's pretty much "whelp, time to go look for magazines" which comprises roughly 80% of the time we have allocated for building stuff, so the base looks like @%$#. It's functional and holds up but it's mostly just empty rooms right now.
I can't think of them all off the top of my head now but overall, each day I play this update I like it less and less. Some of the looters/scavengers in the group were also mentioning that they didn't really care for the 'skulls' system actually, it kind of takes away some of the surprise of 'finding out' just how dangerous an area is before they go in, and now it's as though their character psychically knows how bad the monsters down in the cave/basement/wherever are before they go in.
The graphics changes made are awesome in the update, love the new forge/workbench models for sure, haven't seen the chemistry station yet except on streams and that looks great, but pretty much everything else, especially all of the 're-works' are an emphatic thumbs down, with the magazine 'system' being front and center of that negative response. Balancing this out for a group of people just seems impossible, I don't know how they would ever adjust loot rates and spawn rates to respond to a # of people on a server.
And because the moderator on here keeps implying I'm either lying or we're just bumbling through like we've been caught in a '90s infomercial doing a simple task of some kind, I've started streaming/recording our game sessions now and can share a link to the twitch, or if want/need be I'll take the time to upload a video onto YouTube or something of it (I don't stream/record regularly or anything) and to triple iterate this because this seems to be the go-to response to every post that suggests there's a possible flaw in the system: THE LOOTERS ARE NOT READING THE MAGAZINES FFS. THEY BRING THEM *ALL* BACK TO BASE AND WE SORT THROUGH THEM.
I'm one of the looters MYSELF now, unfortunately. Air Drops are bringing in tons of magazines, in fact they're almost the best place to get them at this point but more often than not it's crap we don't need.
Thanks for the details. You’re quite off on your assumption about my motives. This is the first time you’ve described exactly what you’re doing as a team. We do appreciate detailed and descriptive criticism that is courteously given so thank you.2 -
5 hours ago, BFT2020 said:
I left it alone. Also didn't boost the overall dukes you get from missions, but that might change as I made a huge lot of changes overall to increase the difficulty by slowing down the traders. I did increase their ammo stock numbers to compensate for not having them as awards.
Tier completion awards were also removed, though you get dukes as awards instead.
Do you want it now or when A21 goes into stable? Haven't released any of my modlets yet as I been waiting for stable to drop so I play experimental as vanilla, but for one of my favorite moderators, I might release earlier than planned.
No let’s wait until stable. But drop me a pm when you publish it.0 -
I’d be totally on board for this. Collectibles like this are great. Definitely not on their to do list to finish the game but maybe something they could do when there’s time. They plan to keep updating the game with content for up to two years after gold so it isn’t beyond the realm of possibility.
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11 hours ago, Archer said:
there's a whole 8 human beings out scouring for them and there's just *not* enough to go around for everybody.
What does this mean? To me it sounds like you’re sharing magazines around with everyone instead of specializing. Added to that the fact that TFP has further nerfed the amount of magazines in loot because most reports coming in have been that magazines are too abundant and the only conclusion I can think of is that you have multiple people reading the same magazines.
If that isn’t the case then it could be that your loot tables are bugged somehow. It’s not about proving your team is playing wrong, it is about helping your team be successful.
I guess your only purpose for coming here was to ask that the feature be reverted and you aren’t interested in learning how to adapt to the new system. Fair enough. I’ll drop it and refrain from responding to the issues you raise.
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1 hour ago, RipClaw said:
I fought the day 7 horde with a wooden club and had stone tools until day 8. Does that count as "long enough" ?
If you feel that it is. If not, take Daring Adventurer and go to the wasteland. You can control how long or how soon it happens.0 -
If you want more magazines you can also increase the frequency of airdrops.
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34 minutes ago, Belgarion32 said:
Not too sure what happened but uh, I guess good bye to that save with today's patch, spawned in to a death and after doing a quest I realized that the character itself is entirely reset progression-wise and has only 1 skill point after leveling up once from the quest.
This is often the case during experimental. Often mistake the term "stable" to mean bug free but what it really means is that your save game is stable and won't break with each new update. There is no guarantee of that with experimental. I've had to restart the game countless times over the past year as new builds break previous ones. They usually do give warning and if they didn't it was simply because they overlooked the skill reset on characters.
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10 minutes ago, Wulf said:
Todays's B317 release brings some interesting balance changes.
-Increased water filter cost. Dunno what exactly the thought behind that is, but i'm not sure it really affects me anyway. Money is still too easy to come by if you do quests. (personally i'd rather see a nerf to questing income).
-Lowered the availability of crafting magazines. (book bundle appears less often, the bundle contains less books, and randomly found magazines have their loot change reduced. Oh boy, looks like we're still progressing too fast guys.
What's intended here, stone age through the first week? First 3 days? Honest question.
I don't know how long they want the stone age to last but they do want it to last beyond a few days. They want players to fully explore at least some of the tiers of quality within each tech stage. If players are skipping from brown stone to blue stone to yellow iron all in 2-3 days then all the intermediate tiers are irrelevant. The ideal would be crafting up through all the quality stages because you're spending time in each one.
That said, it does get tougher to get to the top levels later on and I worry that a nerf to stop primitive level rushing might cause some mid game stalling. I'm betting they will likely adjust it back to a bit more generous again once more players get to the midgame and start complaining they can't get their chemistry station unlocked and that they've been stuck on a minibike forever.
Personally, I'd like to see another magazine or two added to each primitive stage advancement and leave the availability of books alone.
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22 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:
No, I don't make a habit of shooting at walls 😆 I'm aware of the shrinking crosshair but the explanation provided made it sound like even if the projectile visually hits a target there is still a skill check as to whether it actually hits and does damage. Perhaps I misunderstood.
If you hit the target you will do damage. There is no skill check that cancels your hit and damage if you actually hit the target. In other words, if you see your projectile hit there is no natural 1 that will then be rolled that will cause you to duff it. Instead, it is a probability of where your projectile will go within the circle of the crosshairs. So the roll happens when you fire the weapon and its trajectory goes toward one of the random points within the circle of your crosshairs. If that point is not on the target then you will miss it.
Unrelated to that seems to be problems with arrows looking like they visually go through the target but act like they are flying past it. I've seen slo mo footage of it and it definitely appears that at times the arrow goes through the head and not near the head.
6 minutes ago, Old Crow said:And yet you felt we needed a danger meter that can't be toggled on and off.
What does this point have to do with the feature of a shrinking crosshair? Where does the "and yet" part of your sentence make sense with Joel's description of the crosshair area getting smaller when you pause to aim rather than shooting from the hip?
I could see your quip making sense if Joel was explaining that the food and water bars were made super thin to reduce screen presence but I don't get it in this context.
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44 minutes ago, Archer said:
My group is still playing - still not liking this magazine thing.
We've halted work on the base for now as the highest tier item I can craft at this point is the damn workbench and literally none of us are reading any magazines at all, there's a whole 8 human beings out scouring for them and there's just *not* enough to go around for everybody. The ratios are off, loot tables, whatever you want to call it but to sustain a group of more than just 2 or 3 people and make the rate of progression not be a complete snoozefest of just digging through trash piles all day pretty much every thing we loot would need to give us 2 or 3 magazines or more. It's tedious as hell.Then increase the loot tables above 100%. That is the only way it is going to work if your group insists on everybody reading all the magazines. Most groups are going to specialize and then there is single player. If the magazines were increased to the point that a team of 8 humans can all progress to the top of the same exact crafting trees it would break the game for the groups that are working as a team and for single players.
Most of the feedback coming in is that there are already too many magazines in loot and in rewards. If your group is stuck at low levels of crafting because everyone is reading the same magazines to just craft their own stuff then you probably need to adjust the loot setting in the options menu to fit the playstyle of your group.
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6 hours ago, BFT2020 said:
Plus, a pure intellect player is the only build that can have two deployed, working turrets and a weapon being used by the player at the same time. None of the other builds can do that.
As for trader rewards, I am just playing pure vanilla during experimental, but once I go to stable, I will be removing the rewards they give out. I keep the dukes as is, but my approach has been they are paying you to do a job, but want you to spend those dukes on the items they have. They are not going to hand out a Q6 M60 if they can get you to buy one instead. I found that reduces the OP of the traders a bit, while keeping them as part of the game.
Wow! I love the sound of that trader change although I've gotten a bit addicted to the magazine bundle reward so it might sting when I rip off the bandage but I think I really need to rip off that bandage. Link me to that modlet when it's done!
Do you change Daring Adventurer to increase the Dukes reward or just leave it alone emasculated?
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2 hours ago, boban said:
Are
Yeah, it’s not finished but it is getting closer and with each development cycle the game gets closer to the design the developers desire which means that if your desires run contrary to theirs then you may have to alter the game in some way. The good news is that it is easy to alter so there will be many many variations out there for anyone to get the experience they want.1 -
35 minutes ago, Lasher said:
It's interesting to me that every time TFP change a mechanic that people don't particularly like the feedback is that they're being "Narrow minded" and "Extreme".
Yes players are still crafting and building, because they HAVE to - but what does the new progression system do for their progression I wonder?
Here's an idea - seeing as there seems to be a general sentiment that it's a "minority" view - how about we put up a pole on the front page of the forums - "Which type of progression did you prefer - Learn by doing, Skill perks, Or the new Learn by Looting"?
Now, I'm not suggesting that TFP would EVER change the system back based on player feedback - that's just not their way - we're supposed to play the game the way THEY want us to play it (the very definition of sandbox <sarc>) but it would once and for all put to bed the idea that these are "Minority" opinions by "narrow minded and extreme" players.
I posted some time ago that people may not like these changes and was met with replies of "well we're sure they'll change it if people don't" - Nonsense.
So how about a poll?
Sound fair?
Its not the criticism that prompted me to say they were being narrow-minded. It was their apparent definition of what makes a game a survival, crafting, building game because if this isn’t one then nothing is.
A poll? Go ahead. Users can create polls. We can do one now and another in a few months for the first impression result and then the more long term game loop view.
I never said they would change it if people didn’t like it. I said they may make adjustments to it if people didn’t like it. But right now it is a very mixed bag with quite a few people also very much enjoying it. It is going to take a few months to get a clear picture. Some people who like it initially may change their mind after a long term play and some who dislike it at first try will change their mind and like it after a long term play.
it’s still the first week.
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5 hours ago, Cattrina said:
I did, it is just this game became a looting-first person shooter, when it used to be survival-crafting-base building. It was one of my favorite games and I have been waiting for the bandits to make it hit every itch. But it looks like I must stay at A20 if I wanna keep playing *sighs*. I just do not enjoy hacknslash or FP shooters. Because building a self-sustaining base is the main goal for me.
It’s interesting that you say that when in every game I play with A21 I am still surviving, crafting, and building. I’m still prepping for horde nights. I’m still doing everything I have done plus more since I began playing this game.
Another thing that is interesting is that you talk about how much you dislike the amount of looting and shooting but at the same time can’t wait for bandits. What do you think bandits are going to bring to the game if not more looting and shooting? Did you think the bandits are going to help you survive, craft, and build? They’re not. They will be new targets to shoot and their lairs will be new places to loot.
This game is meant to be played in the default version by doing many activities that complement each other. Only wanting to focus on a few of them is fine but it is going to require some adjustments to settings or modding. Maybe it used to not be that way but that was only because there were so many unfinished aspects of the game.
Perhaps things aren’t turning out the way you and some others wanted but to say this game is only a looter shooter when it used to be a survival crafting and building game is simply a narrow and extreme view. Most players still build, craft, survive, loot, shoot, melee, explore, cook, mine, farm, quest, and accomplish whatever personal objectives they’ve given themselves. And that is because, in reality, all of those elements are still in the game despite the extreme perspective of a few.
Thankfully there are mods for people who want to change the game to whatever they think defines a game as a survival, crafting, and building game.
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Alpha 21 Dev Diary
in News & Announcements
Posted
Sometimes it is because of balancing and TFP is working through that and will continue to work through it for the 21.x updates.
But a lot of times it is because someone figures out how to make it work and soon the word spreads and eventually playstyles thought to be closed by the dastardly developers really aren’t.
Im not saying I’m the genius who can figure it out but someone will.
Or not—and perhaps people will need to mod the game in order to play it the way they want to.