[Are there any wolves in the forest biome?]

Wolf removal is the next step in survival progression after jars.

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

1 hour ago, sillls said:

I see. I did not know that the despawn time on animals was increased. Do you know how long it is now? 

Also, do you know if you can move Dew collectors? 

Thanks. 

I don’t think the times have been increased. Animal corpses have always hung around longer than zombie corpses. 
 

I think you can move the dew collectors but I’m not 100% sure. 

[Alpha 21 Discussion Overflow]

18 hours ago, sillls said:

It would be great if the de-spawn times were increased though. 

Animals actually have a really long despawn time. Your chicken didn’t despawn. It got et. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

Or….just lock your server at A20 man. Lock it and say no to Joel. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, Archer said:

It just throws things off so weird for a group of more than 2 or 3 people trying to play this game at the same time, the world doesn't generate enough magazines even though the way it works now it seems like every human being who previously lived in Navezgane basically read/hid/had magazines and books *every* where for whatever reason, (maybe it was just an extremely literature oriented society I guess (it just is weird and bizarre to find books and magazines all over the world in the abundance they exist now). 
We're trying to go at this as a group, but there's really not enough of a supply of these things out there to supply *all* of us and we're having to not just specialize, but *hyper* specialize everyone's role which kinda makes things a bit more repetitive and makes the incentive/need to go out and find more of these things to feed the crowd working back at base less of a fun, optional adventure and more of a demanding chore that forces more of us to stop building and to go out and find these things. 

If you feel you can’t find enough magazines for everyone even though you admit there are gobs of magazines being found then you have too many in your group reading the same magazines. I did warn you about that even before A21 released but I guess your group decided to go with everyone just reading the same magazines as each other so that you could have several people who could cook grilled meat instead of one person who could cook meat stew. 
 

You can still play the way you’ve chosen but the progression will be slower which isn’t necessarily a bad thing. Specializing and coordinating isn’t hard. Nobody has to memorize what everyone else does. All you need is a central place to drop off books so that the ones who are specializing can read their own books. 
 

As far as whether it is fun to work as a coordinated team of specialists, that depends on the players involved. I find it incredibly rewarding and this change has really improved the fun of team play for us. 
 

2 hours ago, Archer said:

I would argue that feedback is coming from a very dedicated/involved fanbase, but they represent the tiny tiny minority of people that tend to hang out in the official forums of places like this and similar titles like Zomboid.

 

I already told you that this conspiracy theory was wrong but you also are ignoring me on this point as well. It seems like your group has done a lot of speculating and have engineered what you believe the truth to be and aren’t open to being corrected. The magazine change as well as the drinking water change were shocking news to the forum community. The biggest question that was asked by fans with 3k hours on the forum was “Why did you make these changes that nobody asked for?”. The most positive reactions from the dedicated fans here on the forum was a grudging acceptance to reserve judgement until it could be playtested….
 

I’ll tell you again that TFP is very independently minded when it comes to introducing new features into their game. They are not puppets of a small vociferous minority on their forum when it comes to design issues. They will listen to feedback when making balancing adjustments but most of that will be in later A21.x updates once all the knee-jerk reactions calm down and they have plenty of data to make decisions. No, your group’s collective analysis about why this change was made is inaccurate. It was made because the developers came up with the idea and after discussion and planning decided to integrate it as the next iteration of player progression. 
 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Well ok, if XP gathering now proves to be much slower for builders than for looters then surely TFP can increase the XP gain from upgrading blocks or hitting blocks until it is balanced for everyone. Nothing to do with magazines. Apart from that you should not be surprised that the game by default wants everyone to follow the progression.

Im not sure how builders would increase slower if they are allied with the looters since they’ll share in all the kill xp but the looters won’t share in all the block upgrade xp. 
 

Then again if they are playing shared xp as intended and not sharing xp from kilometers away then they have my respect. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

7 hours ago, Philipp said:

Since the player needs to find books / comics to level up the crafting skill and it takes some time to find all books of one item, it is not most likely that I will find, for example, a steel sledgehammer before I can even craft one myself? This would take away the feelings of happiness for the next slegehammer Upgrades since I already have a good one. Feels trivial in this case then. 

If you stay in the forest biome and don’t take trader and quest related perks and don’t spam quests you should be able to craft much of your gear. You’ll still get lucky finds that exceed what you can craft but it’s a much better balance compared to A20. 
 

If you perk up in trader and quest skills and go to tougher biomes and rush to tier 4+ quests then the rewards you get and loot you find may often exceed what you can craft. 
 

it’s your choice. 

14 minutes ago, Phoenixshade35 said:

I've been checking since midnight for the latest experimental to show up on steam lol, i cannot wait to jump in and see how i do with the new system

It’s never released before noon so you can take a nap for about 4 hours before checking. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

41 minutes ago, Archer said:

Why didn't the people who sat on these forums and asked for this "just mod it" instead of hanging out in here? We played vanilla, liked the game as it had been designed, and if the only reason it's changed course is because people were griping about it being the way they'd originally envisioned it, then again I say, they didn't speak for all, or even a majority, of the people playing it. 

You are making a faulty assumption about the way TFP develops the game. They make all design decisions and then use feedback to fine tune those decisions. We on the forum play test and give feedback which does influence the devs to make adjustments. But we don’t sit at the design table. 
 

This change was not made in response to people on the forum asking for it. It came from the minds of the developers and now we will play and give feedback.   

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

24 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

I'm not going to disagree about the level of stupidity of this behavior, but given the encumbrance limits and the number of books at the start of game it is going to happen. People are going to take the quickest, shortest, most direct route unless 'explicitly' incentivized to do otherwise. Yes, you can coordinate pretty easily if you have a group that you've been playing with for a while, and you're all online at the same time, and that group is large enough to offset the resource requirements/encumbrance ratio, but that's not going to happen for brand new players, and first impressions matter.

Two people reading the same magazines and duplicating their effort to progress half the distance they could’ve gone is not the shortest quickest most direct route. There is no scenario in existence that would put two people reading the same books just to save inventory space ahead of two people who are making sure to read different books. I’m sorry you can’t see that. 
 

I think new players will understand that in moments since they don’t have the history of about 12 previous versions where players were incentivized to read every book they found immediately.

 

The incentive of getting to T5 quality tools and bacon and eggs and a workbench faster is plenty of reason for people to share books as I’ve described and I think it will be obvious to new players if not so much to veterans.  
 

24 minutes ago, Neminsis said:

If you were farming social credits maybe, but it doesn't really have any negative effect on the looter to be able to cook their own food, make their own tools, or craft workstations, at the same point they'd be dropping off the books for someone else to do it while leaving the resources to do so behind.

Again, I’m purely talking about progression in crafting and not making friends or being seen as nice. You can’t see the advantages from a crafting progression standpoint so you think I’m talking about the social aspect of the game. You’re going to have to have the epiphany yourself, I guess. 

 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

8 minutes ago, Archer said:

But if they changed course because of player feedback, 99% of the people who play this game, aren't going to actually give good* feedback.

This isn’t a course change. It’s adding another sail to make the ship make better use of the wind. The course is player progression and they are still on course with that but they’ve introduced a change that really adds to the feature.  Feedback definitely contributed to the changes but did not determine the actual changes. Those came from the creativity of the design team who are not puppets of .01% of the player base that gives feedback. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

31 minutes ago, Archer said:

Looting and scavenging were fine the way they were before, there was nothing wrong with it because for the few of us who did it they could bring enough utility from what they did that it remained beneficial while the rest of us could continue playing the way we wanted - and when I say 'nobody enjoys looting' if it's literally less than 4 people in a group of 30 then yes it's *practically* "nobody" doing it. 1 or 2 people could loot enough to sustain the rest of us and it was like that for years and there was nothing wrong with that, it just allowed each of us to play as we wanted to without need or want to change anything. We pretty much always just played vanilla, default settings, no mods, the game was in a state that kept at least my crowd happy. 

Btw, if it seems like I'm making up a community to give my comments more weight so they seem like the perceived opinions of dozens, I'm in a gaming server of over 2,500 people, there's at least 260ish players on the server who have probably 500 hours or more in it, I'd be more than happy to give you a link to our server to let you go in and see for yourself. 

Scavenging was never completely ignored, we always needed electric & mechanical parts, brass, etc. from the activity, I'm just saying there was no need to put more incentive on that aspect of the game, it was fine the way it was and the way it's changed makes the 'crafting' part of the zombie survival crafting game a little 'c' crafting game. 

I didn't want to use sandbox mode, we just wanted to play the game as it had been, that's all. Updated graphics, new traders, all cool stuff - would still rather keep the old system in place than this new one. 
 

Looting and scavenging were fine before and they are very much improved now. Your 1 or 2 looters will be very happy. 
 

Two looters will still be able to keep your group flush with magazines just like they kept you flush with electronic parts in the past. If the magazines aren’t coming fast enough for your enjoyment then some of you might need to do a quest here or there. There really shouldn’t be a huge change to what your group is doing other than figuring out who is going to craft what. 
 

In your opening post your main worry was that builders would not be able to level up. Hopefully you understand now that leveling up hasn’t changed and that by building and upgrading blocks you will still earn xp and still advance because the new magazines don’t control that.

 

I can see that I can’t convince you but I’m very confident that your group will see that with some teamwork everything will be okay and builders can still build as they did before. 
 

For single player, that’s not true. You do have to loot as a single player if you want to be able to craft better stuff. But in group play as long as you’ve got someone who likes to loot then you’re fine. 
 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

20 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

But WaywardEko only plays on default settings.

 

The formula for the trader stage is "player level * (1+trader quest level) + (Daring Adventurer level * 10)". In the formula, Daring Adventurer has the highest weight. If you put most of your points into Daring Adventurer, the trader stage will rise very quickly.
 

They added the trader stage. Daring adventurer only gave you more options you could choose from but now it pretty much determines the trader stage.

I see what you’re saying. The trader stage allows for greater control on balancing and also is another dial that modders can tweak to make the trader more or less significant. I don’t see that as an addition that nullifies attempts to keep the trader from outpacing the player’s crafting ability. 
 

The devs will always offer choices so that if there are players who like getting awesome trader rewards and don’t care about crafting there is a path for that. Nobody who wants more crafting in the game must perk up daring adventurer. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

10 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

But I have to say I'm pretty disappointed. First the developers say that the Learn by Reading system and the removal of the secret stash is meant to strengthen crafting and that they don't want you to skip technology tiers, and then they add a mechanic to the game that allows you to bypass all of that very easily.

What mechanic did they add? Quests and daring adventurer have been in the game for years. If you don’t want to skip tiers then don’t. I agree that there could be more down to balance things towards crafting even more but I still do craft a lot more in A21

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

So the husband is supposed to get some say?  What’s that like?

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

28 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

From what I've seen in the streams so far, the trader rebalancing hasn't really worked out that well.

 

As far as I know, the idea was that the trader would only offer items that were only a little better than what you could find or craft. But if you do enough quests and put points into Daring Adventurer, you can buy items that are far better than what you can find or craft. Grand Spartan bought a Q5 M60 on day 10 and WaywardEko bought a Q3 Steel Spear on day 8.

 

By the way. Grand Spartan had a Q5 Pipe Machine Gun before and WaywardEko a Q5 Stone Spear. So much to "No skipping technology tiers anymore".

 

But if you don’t take daring adventurer and don’t spam quests then the trader is much better balanced compared to A20. So now it’s a choice for how you want to play. If you want to skip to higher tier gear you can take those skills to reflect your desires and awesome stuff will be for sale and rewards. But if you want to craft most of your own gear then do a quest per day and don’t take the perk that increases quest rewards and you can have that kind of fun. In A20 the trader outpaced crafting no matter what you did. 
 

It is interesting to me that questing is modeled right now after LBD. As you quest you get better at questing and the only way to get better at questing and get better quests is to quest. So it is no surprise that questing is spammed in such a way that it creates imbalances. That’s the flaw of LBD unless it is limited somehow. Hopefully, the devs will put some limits on questing to help it come into balance with the rest of the game. You can do that voluntarily very easily which I’m fine with but I feel bad for those with no impulse control who wreck their own fun but can’t help wrecking their own fun…

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

15 minutes ago, LostBoy said:

Any major bugs showing up in the streamer feeds?

 

From what I'm picking up here it seems things are going well but since I'm not watching any streams I don't know for sure.

There have been some tickets created which will most likely result in some fixes Monday morning. 
 

16 minutes ago, LostBoy said:

I'm wondering a bit about the "Chunk reset" option.

 

As a SP person, does this mean I won't be able to have multiple Bases, that they'll be wiped on "reset" ?

It’s off by default and not really necessary for solo players—especially if you move around the map a lot. You’ll always have plenty to find without the world becoming empty. 
 

If you like creating multiple bases all over then leave it off. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

6 hours ago, Archer said:

I think much of this just boils down to we aren't a group that really enjoys scavenging or questing or any of that stuff at all. I literally haven't gone on a quest in probably 3 years, it's not because the quests needed to be 'cooler' or have better loot, or just needed a better mechanic to force/incentivize me to do them, I just don't care about them. The game could literally take quests and traders completely out and it would barely affect how I play at all except sometimes when it comes to getting an auger. That's about it. 

Then your group should probably enable the creative menu and just play the sandbox aspect of the game or find a mod that allows you to ignore the parts of the game you don’t like. Looting and scavenging are major fundamental aspects of the game. 
 

You began by saying there are 10-30 of you who play together and that some like to loot but most like to do base activities. With just three looters out of thirty you should be able to progress along all the magazine trees pretty well. But now you’re changing the goalposts by saying that nobody in your group likes to loot and you all just enjoy building.  That’s great and there is a setting for that available to your group. 
 

The fact that you could play before by ignoring one of the major pillars of the game was simply due to the unfinished nature of a game still in active development. Thankfully there will be mods that will allow your group to play the game with your extreme play style of thirty people who only ever build. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

6 hours ago, Neminsis said:

And yet the looters are incentivized to do just that by the sheer number of books, the overall generous amounts of loot, and the limits of inventory and encumbrance. 

Not so. When you play in a group it becomes obvious very quickly that it is monumentally stupid for everyone to read every book they find without coordination. 
 

6 hours ago, Neminsis said:

We've been testing this dynamic specifically, and yes the stay at homes can keep up levels wise for a time, but once the looters have a bicycle their exp gain takes off. If you do not do those quests at the same rate as the looters you're left behind. The looters are incentivized to progress through the quest tiers as quickly as possible, which only widens the gap in exp gain and equipment levels. 

yeah but if your looters are just reading everything then you’re shooting yourselves in the foot as a group. I agree quests are problematic. They are the last vestige of LBD that exists in the game and need to be limited to prevent the unnatural spamming that occurs. 
 

6 hours ago, Neminsis said:

Part of the problem is that looters need the same tools as the stay at homes, which sets up competition for the tool crafting books.

See? Your group doesn’t get it yet that you want one person to read all of one type of mag and then craft for the group. If you and I are competing in any way as a cooperative team then we are dooming ourselves. Neither of us are winning if you find and read 12 forge ahead books and I find and read 10 forge ahead books because we could have had you or me read 22 forge ahead books and be further along together. It is stupid to compete over the same books but it usually clicks at some point. 

 

6 hours ago, Neminsis said:

It really doesn't matter how altruistic your teammates are, you have to quest.

Feeding books to the right people isn’t altruism. It is self interest strategy. It’s completely different than how books were handled in the past and in any of the overhaul mods and so it makes sense that it will take a change in mindset. 
 

6 hours ago, Neminsis said:

...then your opinion about playing as a builder would have more weight in consideration? I have actually been playing a21 as a builder and solo player...

Then your opinion about playing in a group would have more weight in consideration?

 

You talked as though you were playing as a team of players at first but maybe that was all speculation based on your solo play?  
 

It is true that as a solo player you must play as a well-rounded survivor and loot and read everything you find. You can’t extrapolate from that to true team play because for best results you must coordinate the reading of books — not out of altruism but out of common sense and good strategy.  

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

5 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

Here's another thing I had a question on @Roland if you happen to know - "Explosion kills can trigger buff effects"

What's this mean? Would a zombie death by say, a contact grenade, trigger the stamina regain of Flurry of Blows rank 3?

Sorry. I don’t know for sure. I doubt it would affect flurry of Blows since that is specific to clubs but it may affect buffs you currently have from candy like bonus xp gain from kills etc. Just guessing. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

1 minute ago, RipClaw said:

It has always been said that it is a safety net but then you would expect an approximate equal distribution in the magazines. But if you look at the streams, you'll notice that players are finding significantly more magazines for their specialization. Either luck is on the players side or the boost is bigger than you think.
 

All I can speak to is my own experience and we have had streamers ask on the discord if the boost was functioning because they didn’t feel like they were finding the parts and mags that lined up with their perks. Those same streamers could start a new world and have a different experience. I’ve seen it both ways but I’ve always always gathered in a large variety of magazines and with multiple looters you find a ton that everyone can use. 
 

After Monday we will have threads reporting that the progression is too fast because the boost is too strong and threads demanding that the boost be fixed because it’s Day 7 and their perked weapon is still an orange level primitive…

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

39 minutes ago, Blake_ said:

Most cabinets and sink cabinets do not open after looting them despite already having open versions made for them. I've seen it in all the streams (I watched like 7 different ones already? lol) in every gameplay mode, so I believe devs know? If not, they do now?

Yeah, I’ve noticed some don’t turn. I don’t know what the intention there is whether it’s a bug or they haven’t finished updating them or if they plan to keep it where some do it but others don’t. 
 

19 minutes ago, Archer said:

I must be doing a poor job of communicating what my concern is lol I'm sure you're answering me as best as possible (It looks like you've probably been dutifully answering these questions for hours), maybe my brain is just too much mud to understand what you're saying. 

I *understand* that getting the right mag to the right person is a thing any of us can do.

What I *dont* understand, is why we're giving the increased chances for a person to get a drop, is going to a person who is usually not going to be using that drop that they had the increased chance of getting, because they're usually spending their time on the server out looting, sometimes spending 3-4 days or more in-game time away from the base out gathering resources we use for the base on blood moon. Yet the new mechanic is giving those individuals a perk for things they spec in. 
Looters don't *need* perks for magazines to build tools, because it's the builders and crafters are the ones building the tools, thus are the ones who need the recipes, yet there's no perk or bonus for the ones they need to drop, just because someone who they're playing with is out looting it *for* them if that makes sense.
Which is why I've said a few times here and in other places, this seems to be tailored to cater to single players or duos of players, and while it makes the game more engaging for people who are playing it solo, it throws a weird wrench into things for the groups. 
 

You’re placing too much emphasis on the perk boost. The boost isn’t a min/max mechanic that makes it stupid for certain people to open certain containers. It is simply a safety net so that you don’t get completely screwed by RNG and never find the mags you need. Your looters will find a wide variety of magazines especially with multiple people all looting and questing. They will find plenty of cooking, farming, and building type mags even if they’re perked into machine guns. I’ve often been able to craft a better unperked weapon than my perked weapon for a time because it is still random and the boost guarantees nothing other than never not finding what you need. 
 

No doubt if you join in quests and looting you’ll move up the building tools crafting faster but If you don’t loot or quest at all you’ll still move up. 
 

The bigger concern would be looters staying away for 3-4 days at a time. I suspect they’ll either come back to base more often or you’ll want to make a run to whatever outpost they have your stack of magazines stored at…

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

15 minutes ago, Archer said:

Honestly, we never did read every book we've always been good at funneling those to the right person, none of us just read books we picked up, we even had crates dedicated just to books based on the specialized role they had in the group for what they did. 
The problem is that certain things now look like they're going to take longer to get to the people who need them. 
Someone who loots is rarely the same person who crafts tools and items. 
However, the person looting gets the increased odds of a thing they spec'd into dropping a corresponding mag/book. 
Which sounds like the people back at base - who need the recipes the most to be able to build better tools or whatever - are going to be the last in line to getting the stuff they need, unless that person doing the looting is also spec'd into building the better tools like the person back at base waiting on a magazine/book if I'm understanding the new system correctly

In my experience you get further up the crafting tiers easier and faster in group play than you do in single player. It does take some coordination as a group to make it all work but it really does. It becomes intuitive and if your group already shares books well you will slip into the new feature seamlessly. I found the coordination and “work” of helping others advance in their craftsmanship to feel very rewarding and definitely one of those emergent objectives that great games always have. You’ll be celebrating with your cook whenever you find a cooking mag for THEM to read. 
 

If your looters don’t care about crafting they will very quickly grok that reading mags for them is a waste. They’ll learn to bring them back as a type of resource just like people who bring back iron, wood, stone, and clay for others to make stuff in the forge. 

Also you can tell them to loot POIs with a building theme like Working Stiffs and they’ll find plenty of building mags regardless of what they are perked into. The nine mags you get from quest rewards are pretty random as well. 
 

Really it just comes down to how fast you want to progress. If you want best tools fast then get out there and help loot and quest. If you’re okay with a slower progression to best tools then stay home and build and the mags will come to you in time. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

7 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

The disadvantage of such a specialization is that you have to rely on this person. If the person is not online, then you can collect all the magazines you want, but no one will be able to make better tools for the group.

 Yes, well that is simply a matter of coordinating  rl schedules which can be problematic for any game. The fact that you DO actually have to rely on each other enhances the team building feeling of the game and more than compensates for those times when someone can’t get on to play because it really makes you work as a group. I love that and yes sometimes it’s a bummer when someone can’t get on for an evening— it always is. Then you just have to make do with what you have for that evening. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

1 minute ago, Archer said:

Hi Roland, thanks for answering my question.
So, the magazines/books unlock tools and crafting abilities - not levels. Got that. 
That still means that the books/magazines that people who aren't looting and are busy building/crafting are still going to be getting those recipes at a lower pace than the people who are looting because the mechanic is that the person who is doing the looting is the one who gets the perk to have an increased chance of getting them dropped if I understand this correctly, right? 
The RNG works in favor of the person doing the looting - and unless the person doing the looting is spec'd into the same thing the person back at the base building is spec'd into, their odds of getting that drop are lower than the looting person who has the increased chances for their particular spec - is that correct?

The meta up to now is to read every book you find because it doesn’t matter if you and I both read the same books. That is different in A21. It actually hurts the group for looters to read everything they find. Best is to assign people to be craftsmen of specific things and then feed them books.

 

So if I loot all the time but am assigned to craft wrenches I should only read those mags and take the rest back to base for others to read and while back at base read any wrench mags others might have brought back. 
 

It just depends on what you specifically want to craft. If you don’t care about crafting at all then you don’t need any mags. Just find out who in your group is reading hammers and such and ask them to keep you supplied with the best building tools they can make. 

[Alpha 21 Dev Diary]

2 minutes ago, khzmusik said:

 

Now that you explained how it works in detail, I think I understand the problem that others were talking about.

 

When loot respawns, the containers that used to be lootable do not go back to a lootable state. The remain in the open/empty state, and those are not containers, just destructible blocks.

 

And from the looks of things, this is the majority of containers in the game: fridges, freezers, ovens, stoves, cabinets, store shelves, book shelves, and so on. It looks like it might even apply to the boxes that you get when you break open crates (from Shamway, Mo' Power Electronics, Working Stiffs, etc).

So no matter what your loot respawn setting, they will never respawn loot. This makes the loot respawn setting almost useless, since it pretty much only affects the loot room containers.

 

Incidentally - this never mattered to me that much, because the default loot respawn time is 7 days, and - unlike zombie respawns - those have to be 7 continuous days where the player doesn't touch any chunk that the container is in. I tend to stay in one place (the city around my base), so I rarely encounter POIs that I have looted but not gone near in a week. It's much more common for me to re-enter the POI a couple of days later and encounter respawned zombies but no respawned loot.

 

So this affects me less than it would other people, but I can understand where they're coming from.

so far, the crates from shotgun messiah, shamway, etc DO remain as containers after you loot them. They remain as cardboard boxes and don’t get recovered in plywood but they do respawn loot.