Jost Amman

He should be... he's part of the QA team!

There was a bit of a misunderstanding, I'm not upset or anything like that... I understand your frustration. However, that has nothing to do with lack of improvements for builders gameplay (which was RipClaw's initial argument), that's why I replied like I did.

I completely agree... and if you only play by looting, you won't have a wonderful base to live in, and you'll be stuck out in the rain! Ok, maybe they'll just cut and place a few blocks in a POI and be done, but still... I don't think that will ever happen (and I don't need statistics to know!). Yeah, and the same people won't see you winning against a huge horde or admire your great outfit. Single player games have always been like this, and now you put that on The Fun Pimps? And by the way, I can enjoy my single player made base anyway even if I don't get the approval from someone else... but if I really, REALLY need to show off, then I take a few pictures and show them on Steam in the right discussion.

Sure, they were neglecting the building part so much that they just added 1K shapes for building in A20! Where the heck did you get that?

It's only a paradox for people who play in an "unbalanced" (or should I say "unnatural") way. I don't want the game to be tailored and balanced over people who choose to ignore the (integral) looting part of the game. It's their problem, not the dev's or ours.

You mean... you tested A20, right? Or are you a QA tester on A21? Because, as far as I understand, A21 will be heavily rebalanced around the new crafting system. Don't lose hope!

I wish they allowed us to collect fired arrows just by proximity: I don't like pixel hunting.

The problem is not in the game, the problem is in how "power-levelers" play. You seem to be in this category, and whatever mechanics is there, it'll never be efficient enough for you. My suggestion is to try and play in a more relaxed and natural way. Traders and quests are already considered OP by most players and I think TFP knows that and they're nerfing both the trader sale-lists and the job rewards. I think you meant Q6? ... Well, the devs said they'll be considering this, but in any case, as I already argued before with someone else on this, it's absolutely NOT a waste of time. The reason is that the game has progression, and when you're still in that phase of the game where you need <Q6 stuff, then you definitively need q1->q5 stuff! People think that unless you can have something be great all the time, then it's worthless... I disagree. The same goes for Pack Mule after you find all Triple Pockets. The same goes for Well Insulated after you find all the best protecting clothing. Same goes for Greasy Monkey, after you've crafted all the vehicles you need (or you have enough money to buy them all from traders). As you can see, there's a counter-point for each one of your complaints. I'm not saying they shouldn't consider balancing the new system to be more MP-friendly, I'm sure they're already doing that. I'm saying that change is always unwelcome when people are stuck in their ways, no matter what. Embrace change!

Good point. I forgot they removed parts at some point. Anyway, the "parts conundrum" can be solved by having others give you the parts they loot (not ideal), or just buy Q1 weapons from the trader and scrap them for the parts you need. As for the "profit / loss" mechanics, if you want to profit, don't sell the weapons you craft! ... heck, selling each of the parts separately instead of the whole gun has always been more profitable! Crafting should be used to make stuff you (and your group) actually need. The problem with the current version has always been that you rarely can craft stuff when really you need it. Partly, because you don't have the skill level, but mostly, because you can't find enough parts to craft that coveted gun.

Do you mean you wish to go back to (what was it?) A9/A10 where you had molds to craft the parts? It's been ages since anyone was able to craft gun parts in the game, so why is this any different from the previous versions? You've had to loot parts since forever: nothing has changed there. OMG!! That's atrocious! ... Are you saying the friends in your group will have to think about you when going out looting? But seriously, you MP/COOP guys are always lamenting about this and that, what about us Single Players? I'm still waiting for TFP to fix Charismatic Nature to have some use in SP too! What about that? You're seeing things from you MP/COOP player point of view, but I only play SP, and from my own perspective these changes sound fun and necessary to get a better survival experience all in all. ===================================================================================================== The real issue here, IMHO, is that the devs should make some parts of the game "act" differently, depending on how the player is playing. If the player is playing MP/COOP, make some perks/skills work one way. If the player is playing SP, make some perks/skills play a different way. You can't possibly and reasonably have a good gameplay balance for both MP and SP at the same time!

That sounds like the stuff you'd put in a "Decorator DLC"! If they hire you, you'll be our "inside man"... create an alt-account and spill the beans, man!

You look like the average forum troll now...

I banish thee @Niraham!

Who need water when you have beer?

Says you. He's not paid by TFP, neither are you, and you sound much more "unprofessional" than him. Curious how you completely ignored the first part of his response, so that you could look like you know better. And here we go... another guy who thinks he's the spokesperson of some HUGE group of people to make his opinion look "grander". Why doesn't people ever speak for themselves?

@madmole I found someone you should hire immediately (this comment is from the A20.6 release announcement on Steam) I won't reply to this guy, since that's not the place to start such long-winded discussions... but he made me think: how can anyone make such foolish statements?

Here it is:

As far as I can remember, last time they answered this question, it was the latter.

*old man's voice* That's actually how we played back in the day, before they introduced traders...

The point I was refuting was not about "play style". @Uncle Al was saying that there are currently no skills/perks that become totally redundant late game. I was arguing that Pack Mule becomes totally redundant IF (and only IF) you choose to use all triple pocket mods in your gear. There's no implication about what's better, more efficient or smarter. It's just a simple statement about the effect of using full pocket mods vs. using the perk, which IMO proves that PM can become totally redundant (again) late game. When you're late game, and have all Q6 armor, there's plenty of space for mods. You may have a point only with Heavy Armor, but with lighter armor you don't need as many mods to compensate noise/stamina. That's your choice IF you choose speed, but that doesn't refute my point that Well Insulated can get totally redundant IF you choose the best clothing. On top of that, you can also find enough space to put insulation mods in your gear. But again, this is just an exercise in game logic... and it's frankly pointless. We need to wait and see how they'll balance out the perk system vs. all the changes they're introducing into A21.

I'd say, it's no advantage at all... unless they make crafted items better than drops. Again, that's IF they make crafted items better than the looted ones. But even then, you'd have a win only for the "crafters", because for the "looters" it would spoil the thrill of finding that coveted Q6 item in loot. The only way I see parts being useful, is if, like someone said, they reintroduce item degradation and the "repair with parts" mechanics. I can respect that. But there are already things that become totally redundant late game. A couple of ones that come to my mind are: The Pack Mule perk, which becomes useless as soon as you fill in all mod slots with triple pockets. The Well Insulated perk, which is useless as soon as you find the best clothing in the game. The Grease Monkey perk, which is also redundant as soon as you already have built or bought the vehicles you need. I'll give you that we expect TFP to rebalance some of those perks in A21, so we'll see how that works. But in general, the concept of something becoming totally redundant into late game is not foreign at all in 7D2D. On top of that, as I mentioned before, some of my examples are of perks, which means skill points that you had to invest. While in your example, the "wasted time" you speak of when having to hunt for magazines, is just normal gameplay IMO... in that specific period of time you needed to craft better gear, so, in my book, is not wasted time at all, since you earned the better quality stuff you needed at the time.

Please! PLEASE!! I DON'T WANT TO DIE!! Can we commute to life in prison?

It's all much more clear now guys, I see your points, thanks.

Well, considering you didn't waste a single skill/perk point on it, it's not a big deal anyway. Many things that are essential early game, become obsolete at a later stage. I see no difference here (again, consider the above).

This is LBD nostalgia. LBD is gone, is never coming back and was never meant to stay. It was a temporary solution to leveling while they were cooking the current system. As long as people keep pushing for LBD to come back, they'll always be disappointed with the current game. Ok, so you play your games without looting at all? I mean, even if you can learn how to craft (i.e.) a Steel Axe, where do you get your steel? You'll need a crucible. Where do you get it? The only option would be a very lucky dice roll with the trader, otherwise you'll need to dismantle streetlights and such or loot. I can't understand if this some kind of tenant or what... why can't you do a little bit of exploration or looting? Are you jimping yourself on purpose just to prove a point?