Jost Amman

Think more like Chess: you can ONLY win by following the rules, there's no leeway for cheesing or cheating. Balanced is to not completely ignore one or more parts of the game that the devs included as "intended to be used". An extreme example would be to ignore skills/perks: that would be very hard, maybe even fun, but sure as heck unbalanced!

1 - Bandits were on vacation in August 2 - Recovering from getting back at work after a long vacation @TheDroneGuy or @schwanz9000: will we get any console command in A21 (or earlier) to control (spawn/kill/teleport) the drone? I see some people having problems with the drone getting stuck, lost and so on... and they could really use some lifeline to solve the issue.

I'm not asking what THEY should do... I'm asking what YOU think it's the best development model (hoe much control the player base should have over development).

Control there is intended "on the direction of the game", so, yes, in that case they can overrule, but you can still voice your opinion in an "official way" so that if they refuse it'll be visible to everyone that they went against the public sentiment.

I've noticed recently, that the new A21 features announced by The Fun Pimps about water and magazines, have displeased a lot of players that feel like they've been targeted by the devs because of their specific play style. One of the topics recently discussed on the A21 dev diary was that players that have roles in a Coop game, are not all treated equally (or balanced properly). However, I noticed that some of those supposed "roles" are very specialized, meaning that they willfully ignore entire parts of the game, for the sake of producing the maximum effect for their specialization. Examples are: Miners, Builders and Farmers. From my point of view, when you choose to heavily focus on something, it's just to be expected that you can run into any number of problems if you ignore other important things. In the case of multiplayer games, you then need to rely on the help of other members of your group, to compensate for your shortcomings in other areas. However, if members of your group are more interested in their own personal goals, or simply can't handle the extra work that is required to bring you home what you need, then you're in trouble! How can the player solve this issue? Should he? Or... should the devs change the game rules/mechanics to accommodate their play style? The real issue here is, IMO, that some players choose a play-style which is clearly on the extreme end of the spectrum. Imagine if I only liked digging, and decided to forego any other activity. Then I'd go on the devs forums and say I'm being punished because "diggers" aren't treated like other players. The result, though, is that, like in real life, if you choose an unbalanced way of life (read gameplay), sooner or later you're going to pay for it. You're surely free to do that, but then you can't really complain that your free extreme choice caused you problems! Usually, when I play a game, I learn the rules, and try to beat the game (or the other player if in PvP) by using the rules to my advantage. However, what I often see in the forums, is people that want the devs to change the rules to accommodate for the way they want to play the game. IMO, this stems from the fact that some developers (and more and more of them tend to do this) don't have a clear idea of what they want for their game, and use a "crowd driven" approach to development. Don't like something? Sure, we'll immediately change it, so the customer is happy! Well, personally, I don't like that approach to game development. I prefer devs who know what they want and that use feedback just as a way to balance their game or improve what they've already implemented. What's your take on the matter?

Hey Vedui, I really appreciate your videos, you explain everything in a clear, thorough and ordered way. However, I don't like YouTube as a company and I don't want to use my account to subscribe there. Is there any chance that in the future you'll open a Rumble or Locals account? Thanks!

I have the perfect solution! They just need to add a small % chance that while mining you'll find a magazine! Yeah man that's crazy, like imagine if the devs were overhauling stuff drastically by doing something major like completely revamping the crafting system to use magazines. That's probably too much work though and would change 7 Days to Die to a completely different game entirely from A20! </s> Yeah, imagine the devs actually making decisions for their own game instead of players... crazy! Am I right? /s Anyway, I trust TFP will do everything in their power to keep this kind of balancing into mind and avoid these kinds of pitfalls.

Man, I respect your opinions...though don't always agree. But why would you even say this to a contributor to the forum? Think all you want, but you don't have to voice what you're initial thought is. OK, you're blunt. I get it. But there's no need to be rude and/or demeaning. Back off a little and you may get more respect. And more positive interaction. Sorry, but I didn't realize I was being rude... can you quote where I said something that you perceived as being rude? That wasn't my intention. I already explained that my question was NOT like saying "go play another game". That was a misinterpretation on someone else's part, or to the least, a misunderstanding. I'll try to be extremely clear of my intent now: Khalagar said he/she wanted to change A, B, C, D, E and F of the current 7D2D version. All those numerous changes would basically create a new game, or a completely different 7D2D. Hence, why my question was (I'll unpack it now): "Since you want so many changes that the game would not actually be or play like 7D2D anymore, why are you even playing 7D2D? If you want so many changes, it's implied that you must hate the game as it is". I hope it's more clear now. I have no quarrel against Khalagar in any way. I just can't understand why some people ask for so many changes that would make the game unrecognizable: they basically want a different game!

But that's Roland's point... your definition of hardcore survival is your own (and mine) interpretation, while other people can think differently.

I just hope they improve (at least) the weather system again before release...

I think you lost the thread of this discussion in this reply... we weren't arguing about how easy or difficult 7D2D is or would be with modifications... we were arguing if ANY level of survival mechanics is already in the game so that the game can be called "hardcore survival" without telling a blatant lie. If the only way to have survival mechanics in, would have been by modding (like in the Goblin example) then TheFlu and pApA^LeGBa would have a point. But as Roland said, survival mechanics are already in the game without modding, so his point is that it's just a question of how you define "hardcore survival".

@Kosmic Kerman: you've been warned! Actually, I wouldn't be against a hybrid system, in principle. The only problem is, if you add that, the devs will need to rebalance the entire XP system.

@theFlu & @pApA^LeGBa: I agree in general, but, to be honest, @Roland said that the basic mechanics to handle temperature, illness and hunger/thirst, are already in the game, so it's different than adding a completely new mechanic to the game. They just need to be "improved" (from our perspective).

I don't see the problem in single-player, frankly. If one needs better gear, they can focus on crafting or looting. I'd go on "magazine hunting" until I'm able to get good enough gear by crafting it, and I'll also invest in the perks I want to be better at and have better gear for. While I'm doing that, I'd be also sometimes finding better gear out of luck. If I don't, I can still use crafting or buy something from the trader. In SP it's a no-brainer, honestly. I can see, however, that if you're playing with people who don't like to share with you, or they just don't care enough about the group, then you'll need to take things back in your hands and go out looting for a bit. And, yes, balancing it the right way, as always, will be pivotal. You don't get it, don't you? People think I'm always aggressive because they don't have a clue what BLUNT means. I deliver what I need to say with no flowers and no embellishments. Some people can't go past the "form" and get offended. Well, I'm not going to change the way I deliver my opinions just to appease to some giant egos or some delicate souls. My response was dismissive, in part, because (case in point) what Khalagar is asking the devs to change at this stage of development is preposterous. If you can't understand that, then you're delusional as well. That's because you're not part of TFP team and can't understand why they made each decision they made. It's also part of the normal development process, especially in Steam's Early Access, to change the game how many times you like if you don't like feature X or Y. You call it "lack of direction"... I call it experimentation on to find what the better game mechanics are. As I told someone else before, TFP have very clear what game they'd like to create. What they changed several times (for different reasons) is the specific form of the implementation of their idea. They want an RPG? Yes. They put LBD as a placeholder, then they switched to V1 of the new attribute/perk system, then they refined and evolved it, and so on and so forth... People look from the outside and make judgements and assumptions based on what they perceive, but not based on the truth of internal development workings.

@pattyboy27: I see you don't know the history of this forum, apparently... I and @Beelzebubs Ghost had a lengthy discussion on something, in a different thread, and when I gave my reply point by point, all he could say was basically that I wasn't good enough for him to reply. Then the same person, comes here and accuses the players in this forum of being apologists for the devs. ... Remember: if you believe your opinions have merit, you won't be afraid to confront with others. I explained to Khalagar why I disagree with the changes he/she requested, so I'm far from dismissive, and my opinions are my own. In the eyes of some people, anybody who agrees with the devs' choices is an apologist, jeez! They can't even fathom that one can agree with TFP because they consider it impossible!

Says the guy who can't reply to counterarguments when they're given. I'm from a generation where everything can be discussed, argued and criticized. I see nowadays there's plenty of people that see open discussions as attacks... how sad this is the new norm.

Because I like the game and am allowed to without needing to justify it to you I was just trying to point out how illogical are your requests. Not really, since a lot of the issues are things that have are being actively changed by the devs from past versions that already worked. Also, this game is in alpha and now is precisely when I'm allowed to, and encouraged to, give feedback and opinions on the direction of the game and offer my thoughts on it. I'm sorry you don't think I should do this on the game forum for feedback, perhaps you should add me to the ignore list if this forum has such a feature so you can browse in peace without seeing feedback you don't approve of No, they're not. You have been talking about completely scrapping and rewriting the attribute and skill system. I can't see how that's going to happen, even in your (and your friends') wildest dreams. And by the way, I don't want to ignore you, I'm just discussing something like everybody else... if you can't stand criticism on what you write then don't post. I mean I didn't ask your perspective tho. This is a discussion forum, isn't it? So why is it ok for you to give opinions and not for me? Except that if they change those mechanics the way you ask, it'll make the game worse for me (Single Player). As I said before, but apparently you let it slide over your head, as long as they keep SP and MP rules one and the same, balancing the game for every group of players and for different needs, will never work. We'll keep fighting each other because what you want and need in Multiplayer, is the opposite of what I want and need in single player. I'd never say that the way you're reading it, let me clarify: you're asking to completely rewrite integral parts of the game (again, take the attributes and perks system change you want), and by asking that you should know there's ZERO chance they're going to modify the game that way before release. The attribute system is going to stay, the perk system will only receive a little rebalance, probably. If you think what you're asking is going to even be considered at this point in development, then you're either delusional, or you're just complaining to complain. That's why I told you that you're asking basically to play a different game. No. I'm just defending the view of the game I like. As long as the changes you're asking for, don't impact the gameplay I like in single player, then I don't care. But as soon as I see that somebody else asks changes that will impact negatively the game in general (SP included), then I'm more than in my right to voice my dissent. I can't imagine why you can't understand that and why you're so surprised. No. It doesn't work that way. They'll find any type of magazines, and a bit more of what they've perked into. As usual, people make a bucket out of a drop. Khalagar is asking to completely rewrite the perk system (and the loot mechanics?) That would impact my game, so I'm in my right to express dissent (as an opinion). Also, I don't understand why you're all so ruffled by my post. How much do you think my opinion on your feedback accounts to for the devs? ZERO So, don't worry, be happy, whatever feedback you're giving is not even remotely diminished by my personal opinion. And by "pushback" you mean... counterarguments? I didn't know her post was the Pravda, sorry.

Well, why are you playing 7D2D at all, then? Judging by all the "modifications" you want to the game, you should play a completely different game in the first place. The only other option I see is to ask someone to create an overhaul mod for you, with all this stuff exactly as you like it. And as I said the other time... these problems you see only apply to MP/COOP, so, from my perspective, no, I don't want them to change anything. Having said that, I don't see much of a problem anyway: your friends don't need to come back to base to give you the mags, they just collect them on the spot, put them in a chest on the road, and then you go fetch them when you have time. As for the zombies getting better and you not having good enough loot, again, why aren't your comrades providing you with some stuff you may need? Aren't you doing your part for the group? Why aren't they helping you? If they don't, then don't craft anything for them or ask better gear as "payment" for your high level crafting. It's a silly situation IMO, easily solved by some more collaboration in the party.

If most new players would find it too hard, TFP could use the same "protection time" they already used for weather and clothing. Maybe you could be immune to hunger and thirst effects until you reach Level N? Actually, that was probably my fault... I saw the discussion was steering towards "hardcore gameplay" (which is much wider than "hardcore survival"), and I asked people to keep on-topic because my original post was about the store description. But I don't mind a little bit of leeway on the topic, just please don't make it a full-on discussion about game difficulty in general. The issue is, that right now there are no settings in 7D2D that can really change the difficulty of the true survival part (hunger, thirst, temperature effects, injuries...).

So, after you complete the "story mission" (which after a couple of hours of gameplay I was still in, apparently) you're free to go and do whatever you like? No, I'm not talking about that. By "remix of fixed game mechanics" I mean that those FPS/RPGs like that one use always the same restricted engine, which will only allow to interact with the world the way THEY decided in the "editor". If you want to burn something, you can only burn nests because they're fixed points they decided you could burn (no real fire mechanics there). If you want to dismantle or loot something, you can only do that on specific "props" the devs decided you could loot. Honestly, after playing 7D2D, I felt severely restricted in the way that game devs wanted me to play.

Yeah, I guess it'll be a very "decked" UI...

Please, NO! I had to refund that game because of the linear maps and restricted world. It's just the same old, same old, remix of fixed game mechanics and almost linear gameplay. I was in the middle of a "story mission" and wandered a bit too far from the "intended" path... then the "mission failed" message appeared! WHAT!!?? --> Refunded

Thanks @theFlu, I knew I could count on a disease, to defend a topic on survival!

By that criteria @SnowDog1942 would start the game with a heavy penalty...

We were talking about "hardcore survival", not about hardcore difficulty in games. I don't know how the topic steered in that direction...