Jost Amman

Yeah, sure, but look at the video I linked!

House flipping is the solution...

Zombie mice?

Just to clarify, in case I was misinterpreted. I'm not saying that description is "a scam", I'm not saying that TFP are lying by saying that. I'm just saying that until the devs fix and/or improve some of the survival mechanics, that description is not currently in line with how most of the survival elements play. Fixes and improvements needed, in my opinion, are: Make effects from cold/hot weather significant again (make clothing great again!) Reintroduce diseases and illnesses: stay out in the cold too much? You get a cold! Stay more? You can even get the Flu. Make hunger and thirst have more relevant effects: dizzy effect when very thirsty and lower stats when very hungry. Introduce mental health: the old Starvation mod had this part done very well (if you go insane, you start hearing REAL voices whispering!) (Re)introduce extreme weather events (depending on biome): sand storms in the desert, snow storms in the snow biome, lightning strikes in the woods! (Re)introduce a wellness system: if you eat a balanced diet you'll be full strength, but if you only eat meat or if you only eat veggies you'll get weak and then ill.

The problem with your survival rating, currently, is that IMO some parts could probably fit in the hardcore rating, but some other parts have been completely nerfed. So, as long as TFP are going, for example, to fix the effect of temperature, humidity and add illnesses along with that, then the hardcore rating would be deserved. However, if all survival mechanics will stay as they are now until release, then the hardcore survival description IMO should be considered inaccurate.

Though, to be honest, using "hardcore survival" in the description, will then entitle players to rant on the forums whenever anything doesn't fit a survival simulation. By using the hardcore word, you're also implying that the game is heavily shifted toward the survival simulation, more than the casual survival experience. Cold weather doesn't freeze you to death? -> Not a hardcore survival game! Don't get the flu when I stay out in the rain all day? -> Not a hardcore survival game! Magic candies that let you jump off a building with no harm? -> Not a hardcore survival game! IMO the issue is not much about "false advertisement", but more about player expectations based on the description.

Well, if he did, at least we'd know what those teens died of, before becoming zombies...

On a side note... this is a good place where you can find good mods: https://7daystodiemods.com/

Try this: It's very different from the usual overhaul. I also know about an Oriental themed overhaul mod (bamboos and katanas), but can't find it right now...

Or maybe you didn't look around very well then?

Perhaps the word you're looking to misapply is 'Patronising.' Correct! ... See? I'm not afraid to admit when I made an error...

But currently there aren't settings to make specifically survival harder (unless you consider loot % as one). You can't change hunger and thirst rate, you can't change how much weather affects you or how serious injuries and infections are. Roland got it right, I was referring to the true "survival" part, meaning struggling for your basic needs (hunger, thirst, general health, and shelter). My point is that the description I quoted from the store page could be misleading for people looking for a true survival experience. But I can accept that since the game is not complete yet, the devs may revise weather survival later, which, at this point, is the only part really missing for a complete survival struggle.

Hard doesn't translate into "hardcore survival" though. I'm fully aware the game has settings to make the game as easy or as difficult as you like, but has nothing to do with the survival mechanics (for now).

Someone on Steam noticed that on the Steam store page there's a list will all the main 7D2D game features, and among those there's this one: Survive – Experience real hardcore survival mechanics with nearly 50 buffs, boosts and ailments that will impact the gameplay in ways that can both challenge and aid in your survival. Now, I'm not saying there aren't survival elements in 7D2D, but to be honest, calling them "hard-core" seems a bit of a stretch. Especially when the cold/hot and weather effects in general are close to irrelevant. @Roland: wouldn't it be more appropriate to write something like "Survive – Experience a wide range of survival mechanics with nearly 50 buffs, boosts and ailments that will impact the gameplay in ways that can both challenge and aid in your survival." ? This game is, after all, more like this: "7 Days to Die is an open-world game that is a unique combination of first-person shooter, survival horror, tower defense, and role-playing games" We wouldn't want people to think this is like (e.g.) Green Hell, wouldn't we?

Again, condescending and paternalizing. You continue to prove yourself being devious and using "normal" words to offend other people with passive-aggressive behavior. You talk about acting like a child and then, when you're confronted with real arguments, you kick the ball out of the courtyard and run away.

Mods are A solution if the developers don't change anything - but not a solution to the lack of these things in vanilla, having them part of the vanilla experience. It's patchwork - to undo what the developers have done, and other mods to introduce the devs failings and shortcomings, or to pick up the slack when it comes to more vehicles or zombies for example. The final word on what you think the developers have decided to do, and why, won't get any argument from me. As for Roland, I'm not interested in discussing anything with you anymore. You didn't bother addressing my points properly, and I don't know whether you're trolling or genuinely don't get it, but it's fruitless to pursue any further conversation with you in particular. And Jost, I hope that was helpful - and I didn't need to insult you, only to address your arguments. As Roland told you, the developers have already "chosen" about farming. They just released in A20 a farming rework, which will be probably balanced a bit again before release, but it'll stay as it is for the foreseeable future. So, yes, mods ARE the solution to your problems. You talk about failings and shortcomings, but that's your opinion. Farming is harder now than it was before, and it's an improvement for me. Now you have to invest in it if you want farming to be profitable. But that's your opinion, so I won't comment further on that, I just don't like the words you use to describe what you don't like. It's like saying you're dumb and worthless because you have a different opinion than mine. It would be silly and rude to say that. As for Roland, he can only tell you what he knows about the devs plans, intentions and why they chose something. He can't change the game for you or go to Texas at TFP studios, and convince Madmole and Rick to change their vision of the game. As for the insulting part, well, you're very good at not using rude words, but you completely lack a respectful attitude and use "formally polite" sentences to passively-aggressively insult others. So, no, you failed at that, and many here can see right through you. I hope I didn't insult you by just stating my opinion. =============================================================================== OT: sorry everyone for hijacking this thread for a bit, but I wanted to be sure that my reply to @Beelzebubs Ghost was thorough.

Ok, now I don't know if you're talking about the OLD farming system (I thought you were asking to reintroduce it in vanilla) or if you're talking about a NEW version of the farming system that you want to design and balance yourself. IF we're talking about the OLD system then you got a few things wrong: IIRC you were able to craft a Hoe as long as you had the materials, so 1 point in Advanced Engineering would give you access to the Forge -> the to Forged Iron -> and finally to craft the Hoe on day ONE. By unlimited, I was referring (of course, I thought it was obvious) about the number of PLOTS you can prepare for farming once you have the Hoe. Even if you don't have the means to fertilize them, it's already a good bonus there just for using your Hoe on the ground. The number of seed, even if lower at the start, can become substantial with just a few days of looting, trader shopping and even crafting by yourself after you put at least one point in Living Off the Land. (you have 4 points with the starting quest, so I'm assuming that won't be a problem. All the other points you've been making is literally called balancing! I told you this would be needed and that balancing takes time. So, even if the devs accepted all the points you're proposing, they's need to balance all the "integrated" farming system back in place (lot of time). The craftable Plots in the current system: you can say it's easy to find the materials all you want, but players will need to dedicate time to farming wood, digging clay and harvesting carcasses on the road (they're not as many as you'd think, even in cities). On the contrary, as soon as you have a hoe, you can prepare as many (unlimited) plots you want for farming, without even leaving the area. But again, I don't understand anymore if you're talking about how the old farming system worked, or you're making up things as you go to "balance" your mess. Also, to this point, if you keep in vanilla the current system and add back the old farming system, hoe much yield would you get from a tilled and fertilized ground plot when you have LotL at max level? Wouldn't it be too OP?

Yes, I've seen the Random World Generator options, and I hope they add more. What you don't understand is the difference between turning on/off different farming options, different skill/perk systems and zombie AI "digging", vs. adding options to something that will create a map as a result. As long as the RWG options can be supported, every new option will contribute to the generation of a map the player will play on that will be cooked and server once the RWG process ends. That's very different from adding options that can impact the in-game balancing, the AI or any core system of the game. If you can't understand that, I don't know what else to say, sorry. Ok, I'll try to be clear because I see there probably was a misunderstanding... Why are you assuming that if we add BOTH farm mechanics to vanilla, that the player will only use one at a time? Being able to plat ANYWHERE (with the old system) PLUS (i.e.) just one point in LotL (new system) WILL give you profit, AND on top of that, you'll only be limited by the number of seeds you can loot, buy or craft (which is probably a hefty number already in the first week).

Two issues I have here. First - this isn't that kind of game, and second - by virtue of that fact, we are now discussing two different things. Me - this game. You - other games of the kind this is not. You missed my point. I was just giving you an example of WHY I think too many options are bad for a game, and I added the reason why I don't like them. I know perfectly that The Fun Pimps (fortunately) are not that type of developer! But if you, and others, keep asking to add optional things to this game (see previous quote), that's exactly the direction we'll be heading to in the future. A game with 100 options and no real "vanilla standard game". So, no, you didn't understand the first thing I was saying, sorry. Simple, right? Well, ask @faatal if it's that simple. For the zombie AI digging is just another direction where they can attack blocks. If you're above them, they'll attack ("dig") up, if you're below them, they dig down. For the AI there's no difference between digging and attacking a block. So, no, wrong again. Simple is all relative, and you need to know the ins and outs of the game (AI in this case) to evaluate if it's a "viable option". Again, the 100 options was an example to show you the trend we'll be having if every player does like you do. You ask for two options, I ask for one, another player asks for three. Add them all and each option will intersect with the other and will need a "balance pass" to avoid absurd situations. What you don't get is that modders can release "unbalanced" content (even if they try not to) because they have no obligations toward the player/customer, but the devs need to guarantee (or at least try) that the "standard" game and most options, don't make the game feel rushed or bugged.

'Unlike me,' huh? Not a good way to attempt a legitimate argument with wild assertions and disrespect. I share the sentiment on being wrong, but insulting me like that with a puerile attitude won't do you any good. And who am I to refuse the invitation re: your request to be insulted, where 'insulted' must be a twisted synonym for 'explained to.' 😏 You said: YOU already started insulting me, by implying that even trying to respond to my (implied) "silly" argument would be insulting. This is called a condescending attitude, and you're using this (and yes, THIS is insulting) attitude with everyone you've been "discussing" with. So, please, don't treat us as if we don't understand who you really are. We all can tell very well. No argument from me on this point. That's your opinion, and not my argument in the slightest that anything is 'always' better. Context is important. Keep this in mind as I address your the next part of your statement. Again: a condescending response which reveals a HUGE ego on your part. The problem is, you can't really understand what I'm pointing at with my reply, because you need it spelled out. Or maybe you're just not in good faith with your reply and try to "win" an argument by ignoring the other side. I'll spell it out for you then (let's play "dumb" here): you've been asking to integrate in vanilla (since you said don't want to use mods) the previous farming mechanics alongside the current new farming stuff. Well, that's literally asking for more options. This is an example of what YOU said about giving more options for the players: Also, if you think having more options isn't necessarily better, then you should consider that YOUR additional requested options could be worsening the game too.

@Beelzebubs Ghost I've read your reply, but now I'm going to be working out all day, so, hopefully, I can reply when I come back since there are many points to address and fallacies in your reasoning, from my perspective. Thanks.

Genius!

Unlike you, I'm not ashamed at being found wrong, and I know sometimes I can be wrong. That's how you progress in life, by confronting your thoughts and opinions with others. So please, insult me. I will try to endure and get better.

People often think that more options is always better. I disagree. I hate those games where the devs have no vision of how their vanilla game should play, so they give you 100 options you can turn on/off or choose numbers from 0 to 100, only to end up with a totally random and unbalanced game. Do you think that allowing players to have both types of farming won't impact food balancing? It will. How do you propose to solve that issue? If you can easily farm anywhere just by having a hoe, you can start an unlimited farm on day one as soon as you have some seeds. At least with the boxes, you need to gather a substantial amount of materials that are not very easy to come by. Mods ARE the solution. The game has taken a different direction after the devs evaluated that was for the best, both from a gameplay and a technical level perspective (reasons and stuff).

I don't care. Then EOS will send the police to your house...