Balancing issues.

[Viktoriusiii]

Yes there are a lot of people who post stuff like this, but I feel a lot of this was not yet talked about (enough) and in the A17 feedback thread even a 10000letter post gets completely ignored (tested it)

so here it is. Nothing I like or dislike, just balance.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me. But PLEASE stay on topic.

 

 

-block hp/zombie blockdmg

-spawnrate of ferals in pois/quests (was already reduced but I still sometimes get the feral on day 2)

-spawnrate of zombies in pois/quests every trap contains zombies+ random zombies around every corner+ questzombies

-too many guns (and craftable guns later). I generally have a full weaponsshop on day 7. I should struggle to find a pistol by day 7, since I don't explore much. Also crafting guns completely removes the endgame struggle)

-nests are everywhere (900 feathers and 90+ eggs on day 9) burnt biome should not have any (or at least very very few) nests, because they all burnt and because you can see them so insanely well

-a "lucky gun find" early is worse then a crossbow. only perks make weapons viable. (has been somewhat improved, but if weaponspawn is decreased, a gun should be the nonplusultra against lowly zombies)

-running takes too much stamina. I get why mining should take a lot, but stopping every 150 meters (non desert) to get a breather (even with lvl 1 perk) is just not enjoyable yes lateron with perks you can run endlessly, but there are a lot of levels (100 currently, but even if thats lowered next patch) and there are other perks I'd rather put points into than a quality of life upgrade

-loot from zombies should be more frequent, and more specific to the killed zombie (hazmat guy dropped an ak... instead of hazmat clothes, nurse dropped water instead of healing...)

-loot in cars is absolutely insane. Got 20+ 7.65 bulltes on my very first car and more

-Traderprices are completly whacky. Yes gunprices for bad guns shouldn't be that high, but 700 is too cheap. Maybe keep the amount you get by selling but increase the amount you need to pay for a gun (everyone wants a gun! it shouldnt be cheap, even if the quality isn't that great. this only works with less frequent guns)

-questxp is laughable. Yes you generally do it for the items/dukes, but 1000xp for walking 2km, digging for half the day and walking back is just not in any way rewarding! Give us 10000xp at least. (depending on the Tier of the quest of course, but since a normal zombie still gives 500xp..., killing 2 zombies is equivalent to running for miles)

-levelgates are waaaaay too high (i hate levelgates, but if you really need them reduce them to level 30 max you are still bound by perkpoints)

 

 

Those are ONLY balance issues.

I have once created a post explaining all the issues with A17, some are actively beeing worked on so I'll wait to post that again after the next patch.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me.

[ricp]

The most recent balancing, b221, seems to have gone in the right direction. It's all subjective of course. One man's meat, and all that...

 

 

The spawn rates for PoI are absolutely fine, imo, if you are suffering from this then set your difficultly level lower. Just about every PoI feral is easy enough to deal with. People tend to get salty about them because they rush in, run out of stamina, then get cornered and ruined. "Softly softly catchey monkey". You need to expect ferals in any dungeon PoI rather than be surprised to find them. If it turns out there are none, then that's just fine. "Plan for worst, hope for best".

 

Trader prices have been tweaked for b221, I think they are a bit over generous now, but hey-ho some people like using the traders for everything so that'll make them happy.

 

Loot in cars has always been overly random, this is not A17 specific. Personally I wouldn't have loot in the cars.

 

Nests are too plentiful, but I'd equally like to see the number of feathers nerfed - especially as we get at least 1/3rd of our arrows back.

 

Guns have been tweaked in both quantity and price. I agree there are too many, but then I also think that a level 1 gun should do much less damage than a level 5 one, regardless of mods.

 

As for the rest? No, don't add more loot bags, no running doesn't take too much stamina, damage has been tweaked and isn't to far off in term so getting gameplay right, quest XP is a new mechanism that will get tweaked the more we get used to it. As it is, I'm fine with it. Every quest is very easy, no idea why you are spending a day digging for anything - A17 is far more generous in regard to location than A16 ever was (and that's before perks being added). As for level gates, they are here at least for the lifespan of A17. I dislike them as a direct replacement to character progression but I also don't hate them with a passion like some more hyperbolic commentators on this forum.

[WolfyBlah]

The most recent balancing, b221, seems to have gone in the right direction. It's all subjective of course. One man's meat, and all that...

 

 

The spawn rates for PoI are absolutely fine, imo, if you are suffering from this then set your difficultly level lower. Just about every PoI feral is easy enough to deal with. People tend to get salty about them because they rush in, run out of stamina, then get cornered and ruined. "Softly softly catchey monkey". You need to expect ferals in any dungeon PoI rather than be surprised to find them. If it turns out there are none, then that's just fine. "Plan for worst, hope for best".

 

Trader prices have been tweaked for b221, I think they are a bit over generous now, but hey-ho some people like using the traders for everything so that'll make them happy.

 

Loot in cars has always been overly random, this is not A17 specific. Personally I wouldn't have loot in the cars.

 

Nests are too plentiful, but I'd equally like to see the number of feathers nerfed - especially as we get at least 1/3rd of our arrows back.

 

Guns have been tweaked in both quantity and price. I agree there are too many, but then I also think that a level 1 gun should do much less damage than a level 5 one, regardless of mods.

 

As for the rest? No, don't add more loot bags, no running doesn't take too much stamina, damage has been tweaked and isn't to far off in term so getting gameplay right, quest XP is a new mechanism that will get tweaked the more we get used to it. As it is, I'm fine with it. Every quest is very easy, no idea why you are spending a day digging for anything - A17 is far more generous in regard to location than A16 ever was (and that's before perks being added). As for level gates, they are here at least for the lifespan of A17. I dislike them as a direct replacement to character progression but I also don't hate them with a passion like some more hyperbolic commentators on this forum.

 

Actually some of us get salty about ferals because they were added with no way to remove them (baring extensive XML edits every single alpha) and they made the zombie walk/run option irrelevent because no matter what you set it to you still get running zombies.

 

This is getting fixed with more options added to game settings soon so at least it was only around 2 years of the pimps going 'no we want to force running zombies on everyone all the time'

 

Now just gotta pray we also get the option to turn off irradiated bull♥♥♥♥ without XMLs too.

[ricp]

Actually some of us get salty about ferals because they were added with no way to remove them (baring extensive XML edits every single alpha) and they made the zombie walk/run option irrelevent because no matter what you set it to you still get running zombies.

 

This is getting fixed with more options added to game settings soon so at least it was only around 2 years of the pimps going 'no we want to force running zombies on everyone all the time'

 

How dare those pesky fun pimps have the temerity of adding zomibes to their zombie game!

[Viktoriusiii]

Actually some of us get salty about ferals because they were added with no way to remove them (baring extensive XML edits every single alpha) and they made the zombie walk/run option irrelevent because no matter what you set it to you still get running zombies.

Actually, beside footballers, you should be able to make ferals jor/walk as well now... or am I mistaken?

 

@ricp

disagree with nearly everything you said... thats... wow but oh well...

(and digging without an iron shovel and without bugusing takes over 4 hours at least!)

 

and please stop antagonizing others. He has some valid points. You might not like it, but don'T derail this discussion with banter. Thanks

[WolfyBlah]

Actually, beside footballers, you should be able to make ferals jor/walk as well now... or am I mistaken?

 

Id forgotten about the footballers.. so even with these options I STILL need to edit the XML every update, what a disappointment but at least its significantly less edits (anymore than 0 xml edits to have walking zombies is too many, why do we even have options like this if they get completely ignored by TFP.

 

And if you had read the bottom part of my post: im aware of he new settings.

[ricp]

@ricp

disagree with nearly everything you said... thats... wow but oh well...

(and digging without an iron shovel and without bugusing takes over 4 hours at least!)

 

Even with absolutely no perks, it should take you no more than 5 real world minutes to find any buried item. With perks? Much much less than that. It's range is about a 10 box square with no perks, and about a 5 box square with them. No treasure is more than 2 layers down. You do the maths - or better still go watch someone doing exactly that.

 

and please stop antagonizing others. He has some valid points. You might not like it, but don'T derail this discussion with banter. Thanks

 

For a start you seem to still be under the impression you get to choose what others post on a thread you've started (this is the third time you've tried this trick), secondly I am not antagonising anyone - people who complain about zombies in a zombie game are just plain daft and should expect to be ridiculed.

[lazyknob]

Lumping too many issues into one thread will hardly go anywhere.

 

Right off the bat you got this guy saying, if too many ferals spawn, lower the difficulty.

There are deeper issues which because, he isn't interested, decides to sweep it under the carpet.

 

There are several factors leading up to this. Level gating. Whether it's the pre 30 or pre 60 mark on higher difficulties.

The tools you have available to you affects how you deal with danger and whether it's available to you soon enough.

Things like crucible being hidden away at 60. Would it make a difference? Depends on who's playing.

Then you have 221 removing the majority of medicine cabinets of washrooms = lesser healing in the open world.

 

Many little nibblets which adds to the overall difficulty at different points.

 

Or is the gamestage just scaling up too fast on certain difficulties.

 

On the one hand he makes a thread about people 'whining', on the other hand, he decides an issue isn't pertinent just because 'he' feels it inconsequential.

[Randomdude]

The most recent balancing, b221, seems to have gone in the right direction. It's all subjective of course. One man's meat, and all that...

 

 

The spawn rates for PoI are absolutely fine, imo, if you are suffering from this then set your difficultly level lower. Just about every PoI feral is easy enough to deal with. People tend to get salty about them because they rush in, run out of stamina, then get cornered and ruined. "Softly softly catchey monkey". You need to expect ferals in any dungeon PoI rather than be surprised to find them. If it turns out there are none, then that's just fine. "Plan for worst, hope for best".

 

Trader prices have been tweaked for b221, I think they are a bit over generous now, but hey-ho some people like using the traders for everything so that'll make them happy.

 

Loot in cars has always been overly random, this is not A17 specific. Personally I wouldn't have loot in the cars.

 

Nests are too plentiful, but I'd equally like to see the number of feathers nerfed - especially as we get at least 1/3rd of our arrows back.

 

Guns have been tweaked in both quantity and price. I agree there are too many, but then I also think that a level 1 gun should do much less damage than a level 5 one, regardless of mods.

 

As for the rest? No, don't add more loot bags, no running doesn't take too much stamina, damage has been tweaked and isn't to far off in term so getting gameplay right, quest XP is a new mechanism that will get tweaked the more we get used to it. As it is, I'm fine with it. Every quest is very easy, no idea why you are spending a day digging for anything - A17 is far more generous in regard to location than A16 ever was (and that's before perks being added). As for level gates, they are here at least for the lifespan of A17. I dislike them as a direct replacement to character progression but I also don't hate them with a passion like some more hyperbolic commentators on this forum.

 

As I disagree with 90% of what you just said, I'm ecstatic that you have nothing to do with the development of this game.

[Kirtonos]

I'll add another one to the list... Damage to vehicles by small stones and wood logs is way too high. Personally, I'd remove collision from small stones and half damage from wood logs. I get that damage is the upkeep for vehicles but nothing is more annoying than watching your bike take durability hits for running over stones that you probably didn't see in the weeds.

 

I'll second the loot from cars. I'd even go as far as saying that I think the loot table has gotten mixed up with munition crates because a high percentage of what I get out of cars these days is ammo of some kind.

 

I'll give an amen brother on the stamina while running issue. Again, I get that devs want to limit the amount of kiting that can be done against zeds and give value to consumables like beer and coffee but jesus this is just painful. In the b221 game, our trader was 3.5km away from our spawn point when we restarted. Since the trader is crucial now to your early game, that was a very long and painful run.

[lazyknob]

I'll add another one to the list... Damage to vehicles by small stones and wood logs is way too high. Personally, I'd remove collision from small stones and half damage from wood logs. I get that damage is the upkeep for vehicles but nothing is more annoying than watching your bike take durability hits for running over stones that you probably didn't see in the weeds.

 

I'll second the loot from cars. I'd even go as far as saying that I think the loot table has gotten mixed up with munition crates because a high percentage of what I get out of cars these days is ammo of some kind.

 

I'll give an amen brother on the stamina while running issue. Again, I get that devs want to limit the amount of kiting that can be done against zeds and give value to consumables like beer and coffee but jesus this is just painful. In the b221 game, our trader was 3.5km away from our spawn point when we restarted. Since the trader is crucial now to your early game, that was a very long and painful run.

 

Haha, when I hear the stones being crushed under the bicycle, I'm thinking wtf am I riding? A steamroller? And then the color matches...

 

My recent reset was 6.2km away!

[ricp]

As I disagree with 90% of what you just said, I'm ecstatic that you have nothing to do with the development of this game.

 

The joys of having an opinion. I fail to see how my mine are so outlandish that it resulted in your little hyperbole, though.

[Viktoriusiii]

The most recent balancing, b221, seems to have gone in the right direction. It's all subjective of course. One man's meat, and all that...

Agreed.

 

The spawn rates for PoI are absolutely fine, imo, if you are suffering from this then set your difficultly level lowerno they are not. I don'T know which difficulty you play on, but 15 zombies (or more) in a 2-3 room building is NOT in any way justified. Yes not everything has to be realistic, but it becomes a grind rather than an exploration!. Just about every PoI feral is easy enough to deal withnot if you don't have a good weapon already. Yes you can cheese them, lure them out and so on, but ferals are still ferals! Especially on insane, feral on day 2 means as much your death as a zombiebear that spots you.. People tend to get salty about them because they rush in, run out of stamina, then get cornered and ruined.I'm not one of those people. I lure them outside and fight them there... but usually with molotovs, because there are like 15 zombies, all of them need 10 blows to the head. "Softly softly catchey monkey". You need to expect ferals in any dungeon PoI rather than be surprised to find them.Really? Why? What tells me what POI has ferals in them? And should I stay away from pois until I have better weapons? Well there is the last bit of fun that I have in A17(early game) and you throw it out of the window, saying "just expect a feral!" If it turns out there are none, then that's just fine. "Plan for worst, hope for best".

 

Trader prices have been tweaked for b221, I think they are a bit over generous now, but hey-ho some people like using the traders for everything so that'll make them happy. I dislike the generousity, but overall agreed.

 

Loot in cars has always been overly random, this is not A17 specific.Yes it is. In <A16 you only got stuff that you would find in a regular car with the 0.5% chance of something good like an auger/chainsaw. Now its 80% ammo and guns or emptyness. Personally I wouldn't have loot in the cars. Why not? People who have tried to escape the apocalypse, ran out of gas/crashed and fled quickly while zombies surround the car. I wouldn't look through everything I packed with me. Cars are one of the most sensible lootcontainers in my opinion.

 

Nests are too plentiful, but I'd equally like to see the number of feathers nerfed - especially as we get at least 1/3rd of our arrows back.jup.

 

Guns have been tweaked in both quantity and price. I agree there are too many, but then I also think that a level 1 gun should do much less damage than a level 5 one, regardless of mods. Also jup.

 

As for the rest? No, don't add more loot bagswhy not? more specific loot would bring so much to the game., no running doesn't take too much staminaso you like jogging 100 metres and beeing out of breath? Especially when the trader/quest is 2km away? Well I don't and there is no reason for this to be in so..., damage has been tweaked and isn't to far off in term so getting gameplay rightwell I'll talk about that once they fix the ai. But currently they break metal doors faster than you can repair them... so not really sure if I'd call that "about right", quest XP is a new mechanism that will get tweaked the more we get used to it. As it is, I'm fine with it1000xp for a days worth of work... "fine" is not what I would call that. (you need 9000xp to level up). Every quest is very easy, no idea why you are spending a day digging for anythingbecause I don't have an iron shovel for like 10 days, so a stoneshovel breaks dirt in about 15 seconds... - A17 is far more generous in regard to location than A16 ever was correct! doesn'T change the fact that I was STILL faster with a good iron shovel/old stamina than I am now.(and that's before perks being added). As for level gates, they are here at least for the lifespan of A17. I dislike them as a direct replacement to character progression but I also don't hate them with a passion like some more hyperbolic commentators on this forum. I hate levelgates, but no real disagreement here.

 

Sooo... want me to count how often we disagree? 90% disagreement isn't really a hyperbole, just a gross estimate

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

doesnt mean you are factually wrong... just saying it wasn't really hyperbole

 

4 to 13 thats about 70%

just to piss lucky off a bit more

[LuckyStar]

Sooo... want me to count how often we disagree? 90% disagreement isn't really a hyperbole, just a gross estimate

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

doesnt mean you are factually wrong... just saying it wasn't really hyperbole

 

Pedantic correctness..... aaaaaaaah.

Gotta love it.

 

[JaxTeller718]

The joys of having an opinion. I fail to see how my mine are so outlandish that it resulted in your little hyperbole, though.

 

You were suggesting difficulty, which is strictly taboo around here since everyone knows this is a building mining game and NOT a survival zombie game. Suggestions OTHER than decreasing difficulty, removing challenges and simplifying gameplay will get you mocked and laughed at by "elite" horde base designers.

 

"Big name" streamers said so.

[Viktoriusiii]

You were suggesting difficulty, which is strictly taboo around here since everyone knows this is a building mining game and NOT a survival zombie game. Suggestions OTHER than decreasing difficulty, removing challenges and simplifying gameplay will get you mocked and laughed at by "elite" horde base designers.

 

"Big name" streamers said so.

 

I'm all for difficulty.

Just not "cheap" difficulty. Difficulty for difficulties sake.

If they made ghosts that can walk through walls now and explode on impact and the only thing that hurts them is a special mod for the shotgun... and you tell me "thats stupid! that doesn'T fit in the world!"

 

Can I also just dismiss your statement as "pah you just don't like it when things get difficult!"?

Because I highly doubt that. So please don't accuse others of stuff they didn't mean or say.

[ricp]

Sooo... want me to count how often we disagree? 90% disagreement isn't really a hyperbole, just a gross estimate

 

I was referring to their claim they'd be "ecstatic" as the hyperbole. Not that people disagree or for the variance of that. Hence the comment about the joys of having an opinion.

 

doesnt mean you are factually wrong...

 

I'd postulate the only people who are "factually correct" are those who agree with TFP. In that respect, and as these sorts of things are heavily subjective, I'd maybe sway away from the whole binary right/wrong labelling. We aren't discussing statistics, we're talking gameplay.

 

Now, forgive the length of this, but I felt I should counter a few of the points you raised....

 

[[ Edit: It's not all one big stream of consciousness and I've tried to split it up, but jinkies it's a bit of a read, sorry ]]

 

In regard to the PoI's, yes, yes totally you should keep away from them early game. Loot is easily found elsewhere. This isn't removing a vital part of the game it's keeping with the time honoured gaming tradition that you shouldn't be taking on the hardest of enemies at the very start of your game. If anything it should make the early game world all the more exciting and dangerous. Remember A16 where the most you could hope for were a couple of sleepers, none of which were ferals? Plus, late game you will be thankful these things provide a bit of a challenge.

 

Certainly within a couple of days you should have looted or crafted your way to being capable of taking on the low level PoIs but in general, if you follow the route that the devs have laid out and take into consideration the tricks they use (hidden sleepers, collapsing ceiling/floors, etc) then they really shouldn't cause any issue. PoIs are easily graded, and let's face it some even advertise on the sides of the wall what they contain (I'm looking at you Bear's Den!), you really shouldn't be hitting the harder ones straight away. How do you tell? You don't at first, but trust me, you will soon. Everyone will soon, and each different PoI will have it's own name, lore and general strategy of attack.

 

My only problem in regard to the harder PoIs is the FPS, it's improved from B208 but I'm still getting lag when swamped.

 

As for car loot, in A16 I've picked up chainsaws and augers in the first day of a playthrough. The RNG in regard to this really is all over the place. As I say, I don't see the need for them (they hold way more space than is ever used) and using cars purely for car specific loot makes sense. I get that the lore allows for cars to be storage too but I've always felt that storage is unnecessary. Personal choice there.

 

Removing the loot drops, or at the very least limiting them as they are now, changes the whole core aspect of the gameplay. Zombies have changed from being a harvestable asset to being a non-benign malice, and a more intelligent malice at that. It changes the game to where zombies were seen as a benefit, to one where they are most certainly not. Now they do give XP, that is true, and you can farm that, but I'll be honest I do not miss searching through hundreds of corpses for the most pitiful low level loot. What's more it seems the "garbage loot" now yields that low level loot much more; more glue, duct tape, gunpowder.. stuff that is all too easy to run out of. What's more the loot that does drop (rarely although more frequently than say b199) is of higher quality. So, aside from the issues regarding optimisation and zombie loot, which is the main reason the loot drop was changed, there is no reason now for all of them to drop loot anyway.

 

You mention stamina, I'll be honest I noticed it when A17 dropped first but the mechanism is very easily learned. If you need to run a long distance, drink some coffee (or several), if you are fighting then manage it. Use a mix of swings, don't sprint in and out like A16. I mean all this is obvious, but it shouldn't take you long to find it second nature. Do I still get stuck out of stamina? Sure, but not that often. If you are looking for a game where to can just run from one side of the map to the other then it's clearly not A17. In many ways I feel it is part of the development curve. You aren't meant to be travelling big distances at the start and while moving the bike away from the workbench means you will have some form of transport available to you earlier than before.

 

In the trader, what tier levels did you get up to? Tier one was pretty rubbish in the previous build, and it's been nerfed a bit since then, but really, go look at the quests. A to B, kill something/dig up something, back to A, collect reward. The only effort comes from it being a distance away from the trader. Other than that it's 7DtD 101, you could rack up 10 15 quests within a few days. It's right you get little reward for it. There are perks of course that buff that, plus you get a bonus for finishing the tiers. I would guess that in the stable release the traders may be involved in the NPC lore that is forever being talked about - can't comment but again that may be getting expanded.

 

As for the digging. Go to the location. Walk all the way north until the box on the radar stops flashing, place a wood frame. Turn 180' then go south until the box stops flashing in the radar again. Place a wood frame. Find the middle point between the north and south boxes, then from there go east (then west) repeating that process. You will now have an area marked out in a cross. Box around that (although I actually think it's a circle now rather than a box) and you'll see the area is pretty small. If you start from the centre and dig a layer down, then crouch and dig one layer below the surface in a 360' sweep (and do this as far as the spade will reach) and you'll find you've cleared most of the dirt away from the area, but done half the work because most of the topsoil is still there. It's very likely you will have encountered the treasure before you've completed it. At it's worst with no perks and the poorest tool it can take you, say, 10 mins most in real life. I'd recommend you go watch someone on YouTube doing this, if you've not been doing this way already then you're going to kick yourself.

 

One final thing about level gates. They are here. I really don't see the point in people complaining about them. TFP aren't going to rip the whole thing out and replace them. A18, perhaps, not now and not for the remaining 17.x builds. Tweaks, sure, and there already have been. My opinion is that I'll see how they really affect the game (I'm sure mods like an A17 Starvation will completely rework the vanilla structure). After all it wasn't really until several builds of the stable A16 did everything get ironed out and we saw how the whole game plays out. IMO, It's far too early for people to be making so many explicit claims about a new game mechanism.

 

What I will say is that I agree with you that a lot of this is all about balancing. Level gates? Hhnnnnggg, yeah ok, prob the only real negative as such, but overall the game is fine, A17 adds a lot and in many ways is the far better game for it.

[JaxTeller718]

Yes there are a lot of people who post stuff like this, but I feel a lot of this was not yet talked about (enough) and in the A17 feedback thread even a 10000letter post gets completely ignored (tested it)

so here it is. Nothing I like or dislike, just balance.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me. But PLEASE stay on topic.

 

 

-block hp/zombie blockdmg

-spawnrate of ferals in pois/quests (was already reduced but I still sometimes get the feral on day 2)

-spawnrate of zombies in pois/quests every trap contains zombies+ random zombies around every corner+ questzombies

-too many guns (and craftable guns later). I generally have a full weaponsshop on day 7. I should struggle to find a pistol by day 7, since I don't explore much. Also crafting guns completely removes the endgame struggle)

-nests are everywhere (900 feathers and 90+ eggs on day 9) burnt biome should not have any (or at least very very few) nests, because they all burnt and because you can see them so insanely well

-a "lucky gun find" early is worse then a crossbow. only perks make weapons viable. (has been somewhat improved, but if weaponspawn is decreased, a gun should be the nonplusultra against lowly zombies)

-running takes too much stamina. I get why mining should take a lot, but stopping every 150 meters (non desert) to get a breather (even with lvl 1 perk) is just not enjoyable yes lateron with perks you can run endlessly, but there are a lot of levels (100 currently, but even if thats lowered next patch) and there are other perks I'd rather put points into than a quality of life upgrade

-loot from zombies should be more frequent, and more specific to the killed zombie (hazmat guy dropped an ak... instead of hazmat clothes, nurse dropped water instead of healing...)

-loot in cars is absolutely insane. Got 20+ 7.65 bulltes on my very first car and more

-Traderprices are completly whacky. Yes gunprices for bad guns shouldn't be that high, but 700 is too cheap. Maybe keep the amount you get by selling but increase the amount you need to pay for a gun (everyone wants a gun! it shouldnt be cheap, even if the quality isn't that great. this only works with less frequent guns)

-questxp is laughable. Yes you generally do it for the items/dukes, but 1000xp for walking 2km, digging for half the day and walking back is just not in any way rewarding! Give us 10000xp at least. (depending on the Tier of the quest of course, but since a normal zombie still gives 500xp..., killing 2 zombies is equivalent to running for miles)

-levelgates are waaaaay too high (i hate levelgates, but if you really need them reduce them to level 30 max you are still bound by perkpoints)

 

 

Those are ONLY balance issues.

I have once created a post explaining all the issues with A17, some are actively beeing worked on so I'll wait to post that again after the next patch.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me.

 

I Got This

 

Double Quest XP

 

Modlet form, SHOULDN'T ruin a game in progress but quest edits can be funny so use at own risk. Doubles all trader quest XP from current values as well as the open quest.

 

You also might want to check out some of my other modlets. Many of the things you mentioned here I have a modlet for.

 

JaxTeller718 Modlet Collection Forum Post

[JaxTeller718]

I'm all for difficulty.

Just not "cheap" difficulty. Difficulty for difficulties sake.

If they made ghosts that can walk through walls now and explode on impact and the only thing that hurts them is a special mod for the shotgun... and you tell me "thats stupid! that doesn'T fit in the world!"

 

Can I also just dismiss your statement as "pah you just don't like it when things get difficult!"?

Because I highly doubt that. So please don't accuse others of stuff they didn't mean or say.

 

Damn, I was actually sort of defending you..... see my modlet link. We think alike. I was more referencing Wolfys comments.

[Odin_the_Mad]

Yes there are a lot of people who post stuff like this, but I feel a lot of this was not yet talked about (enough) and in the A17 feedback thread even a 10000letter post gets completely ignored (tested it)

so here it is. Nothing I like or dislike, just balance.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me. But PLEASE stay on topic.

 

 

-block hp/zombie blockdmg

-spawnrate of ferals in pois/quests (was already reduced but I still sometimes get the feral on day 2)

-spawnrate of zombies in pois/quests every trap contains zombies+ random zombies around every corner+ questzombies

-too many guns (and craftable guns later). I generally have a full weaponsshop on day 7. I should struggle to find a pistol by day 7, since I don't explore much. Also crafting guns completely removes the endgame struggle)

-nests are everywhere (900 feathers and 90+ eggs on day 9) burnt biome should not have any (or at least very very few) nests, because they all burnt and because you can see them so insanely well

-a "lucky gun find" early is worse then a crossbow. only perks make weapons viable. (has been somewhat improved, but if weaponspawn is decreased, a gun should be the nonplusultra against lowly zombies)

-running takes too much stamina. I get why mining should take a lot, but stopping every 150 meters (non desert) to get a breather (even with lvl 1 perk) is just not enjoyable yes lateron with perks you can run endlessly, but there are a lot of levels (100 currently, but even if thats lowered next patch) and there are other perks I'd rather put points into than a quality of life upgrade

-loot from zombies should be more frequent, and more specific to the killed zombie (hazmat guy dropped an ak... instead of hazmat clothes, nurse dropped water instead of healing...)

-loot in cars is absolutely insane. Got 20+ 7.65 bulltes on my very first car and more

-Traderprices are completly whacky. Yes gunprices for bad guns shouldn't be that high, but 700 is too cheap. Maybe keep the amount you get by selling but increase the amount you need to pay for a gun (everyone wants a gun! it shouldnt be cheap, even if the quality isn't that great. this only works with less frequent guns)

-questxp is laughable. Yes you generally do it for the items/dukes, but 1000xp for walking 2km, digging for half the day and walking back is just not in any way rewarding! Give us 10000xp at least. (depending on the Tier of the quest of course, but since a normal zombie still gives 500xp..., killing 2 zombies is equivalent to running for miles)

-levelgates are waaaaay too high (i hate levelgates, but if you really need them reduce them to level 30 max you are still bound by perkpoints)

 

 

Those are ONLY balance issues.

I have once created a post explaining all the issues with A17, some are actively beeing worked on so I'll wait to post that again after the next patch.

 

Do you have other balancing issues? Tell me.

 

so most balancing issues are a matter of preference (in my humble opinion). for instance lots of people dont like the amount of guns and ammo you find throughout the world but in the first A17 release the game was waaay more difficult and since there were ferals, cops, and wights in many of the low level POIs it made guns more necessary. i wouldnt even go into a dungeon house without a gun. But now that they nerfed the difficulty a bit it seems like overkill to find so many early on. As soon as they change one aspect of the game it throws off the balance in other areas.

 

Thats why i have been saying that the best possible solution TFP's could create would be to add in a whole bunch of fine-grain settings for all different aspects of the game. Dont like how many guns you find? Turn down weapon spawn rates. Dont like how fast stamina drains? Turn down stamina usage. Dont like that guns dont 1-shot normal zombies with a headshot? turn up headshot multiplier. Dont want special zombies like ferals/wights/irradiated/cops/vultures? disable them. Want to build underground unmolested? turn off zombie digging.

 

If they added the ability to do this in-game when you are setting up your world i think it would make most people happy because you could balance the game according to your tastes and everyone gets to play the game the way they want without forcing others to play that way. you can still do this with mods but not everyone is good at modding and its a pain in the ass to have to change .xml files after every update to get back the settings you like. just my 2 cents.

 

What do you guys think about having more options?

[OzHawkeye]

What do you guys think about having more options?

 

I would be amazed if anyone was actually (really) against having more options. ;-)

[LuckyStar]

I would be amazed if anyone was actually (really) against having more options. ;-)

 

There's always too much of a good thing.

 

Options = Good.

 

Too many Options = Bad

 

So... where do you draw the line?

[Aldranon]

There's always too much of a good thing.

 

Options = Good.

 

Too many Options = Bad

 

So... where do you draw the line?

 

 

Just have the six primary difficulty levels modify all the other settings. Then a person could change a few if they wanted.

 

 

Easy peasy!

[ricp]

I would be amazed if anyone was actually (really) against having more options. ;-)

Can anyone name a game on the market that offers the same level of granular control that is being asked for here?

 

I have no issue, and like you I can't see why anyone would either, if there was a massive configuration page that listed everything from the location and difficulty of ferals, to the quality and distribution of loot, to amending the level gating system.

 

There is the XML, of course, and while I would argue it's more a happy accident (an easily readable data file that exposes some of the variables within the game, spotted by users and now the panacea for all sorts of perceived ills) it does allow a lot of amendment - it only covers a small part of the actual game world though.

 

What I would say is that there aren't games out there that offer that sort of flexibility and it's for one main reason. That being time/money resources. I would suggest no in-game variable exists in isolation, and that events or actions in the world are based on a long chain of interconnected systems, in order to provide these sorts of options they would need to investigate just how altering one affects the rest of the game, repeat for all other settings. Ultimately this is going to take people away from the more important tasks such as bug fixing, optimising and feature implementing.

[WolfyBlah]

I would be amazed if anyone was actually (really) against having more options. ;-)

 

*cough* crafting and loot timers *cough*

 

Hell.. log spikes, the harvest system, the skill system...

 

There are a lot of options the developers dont want to give us (going to yet again state i would never have started playing 7days had i know craft/loot timers would be forced, or had i know crafting would be dummed down to stupid levels...)

 

Id say at least one or two people on the development team dont want to give us options... gazz decided he hates log spikes so now nobody get to have them in thier game... madmole decides he dosent like that people are playing without craft or loot timers so they are recoded to be forced...