!!7 Days to Die Asset Mod!! ....? What do ya think?

[Spider]

I think in the other thread ( https://7daystodie.com/forums/showthread.php?92794-How-can-you-tell-that-a-lawyer-is-lying )Kubikus has a great idea and it deserves discussion and more thought.

 

I think a Asset Mod for 7D2D modding community to reference would be awesome. I think this could be the biggest thing for 7D2D modding since SDX and Magoli's Combo Pack. I’m so sure it would be, I’m willing to take it on. Here's the details.

 

I(and hopefully others please, please,please) would make a 7D2D Asset Mod. We would make a thread explaining how this would work and we would ask for Asset Sponsors. An Asset Sponsor would find an Asset they would like to have added to 7D2D and they would provide us with a link to purchase it and they would donate the money for it to the Asset Mod Team(AMT). The AMT would email a screenshot of the asset in the store back to the sponsor to confirm its correct. Once the asset is confirmed we would purchase the asset and do all the work to get it loading into 7D2D. Then we would group the assets by categories in separate downloads like Plant Assets Pack, Weapon Assets Pack, Food Asset Pack and so on. We would use a generic naming system like plant001, plant002 or weapon001, weapon002 and so on. That is it, no code for spawning, xml or nothing just the unity3d files.

 

This is How the Asset Mod would be legally used by the community. “Mod Maker A” would make their mod like normal but use the ATM naming system for any ATM assets they wanted to use for their mod. If “Mod Maker A” wants to use plant001 and plant002 in their mod, they would set up all the xml code but reference ATM asset names (plant001, plant002) in their code. “Mod Maker A” would need to communicate and explain to the players how they would need to also download the Plant Asset Pack from ATM and how to open the Asset Pack and copy and paste the needed files into their game file (plant001 & plant002).

 

Boom done. All legal as long as no one includes the unity files with their downloads. If they just reference them and explain where to get them it works perfect.

 

So in short make a Asset Mod where people can sponsor the purchase of an assets to be added to the Asset Mod and the Asset Mod can be used by all in the 7D2D Community freely and legally.

 

 

Thoughts?

[Prisma501]

First thought is "if every mod community does this, a 3D artist will sell his payed asset exactly 1 time". Rest will be taken care off by redistributing an "Asset mod". Cant imagine this is legal as you are robbing income from the 3D artists.

 

Cheers

 

-edit- to see my point better think bigger than just the game 7dtd. Would it be okey to create a construction like this for all games globally and all existing assets? Never would have to buy a payed asset again ever as long as ONE person did pay for it. Why not just pay for the darn thing if you like it so much you want it in your mod?

[Spider]

@Prisma501

On Steam other modding communities do things like this. Where you have a mod that other mods use things from its very common in the Workshop there is even a function in the Steam Workshop to add a notification to the player when they subscribe to a mod that needs another mod to work.

 

This is legal because the mod would be free. If I tried to charge to be in a group that had access to the Asset Mod (like Napster) that would be illegal. This would not and is common practice on Steam Workshop

[Kubikus]

I think that the whole copying back and forth and selective download sounds kinda illegal, I believe it needs to be one package, like one game:

 

That is it, no code for spawning, xml or nothing just the unity3d files.

 

This is How the Asset Mod would be legally used by the community. “Mod Maker A” would make their mod like normal but use the ATM naming system for any ATM assets they wanted to use for their mod. If “Mod Maker A” wants to use plant001 and plant002 in their mod, they would set up all the xml code but reference ATM asset names (plant001, plant002) in their code. “Mod Maker A” would need to communicate and explain to the players how they would need to also download the Plant Asset Pack from ATM and how to open the Asset Pack and copy and paste the needed files into their game file (plant001 & plant002).

 

The player should have to download the complete master mod, that also should to be an actual mod and not just a bunch of asset files.

 

I am still looking for any TOS for assets, where are these at? Does the asset store not have general terms?? I found another set of individual terms here:

 

http://mr-necturus.com/store/index.php?route=information/information&information_id=5

 

mr. Necturus allows and grants you the customer a worldwide, non-exclusive, non-transferable license to use the products in video games, videos, and website promotional content. This license is active and valid only in refernce to the products sold on mr. Necturus, and then said, only if you have purchased them. Any usage of mr. Necturus content by an individual who has not purchased the products, even in a non commercial setting is not asceptable.. All rights are reserved and will be removed if you the customers, does not adhere to this.

 

But what is "usage"? Put a copy of the asset into a game, I'd say. Not reference the asset that already is in the game.

 

First thought is "if every mod community does this, a 3D artist will sell his payed asset exactly 1 time". Rest will be taken care off by redistributing an "Asset mod". Cant imagine this is legal as you are robbing income from the 3D artists.

 

Cheers

 

-edit- to see my point better think bigger than just the game 7dtd. Would it be okey to create a construction like this for all games globally and all existing assets? Never would have to buy a payed asset again ever as long as ONE person did pay for it. Why not just pay for the darn thing if you like it so much you want it in your mod?

 

This is a thought of myself as well, I had discussed it:

 

Of course, this sounds somewhat like a trick. A dodge? Like abusing a loophole in the legal system. This might not be legal and my idea naive. But then again, how many modders actually spend considerable sums at the store? I honestly don't know. So practically, this might end up putting a lot more money into asset creators' pockets than if every modder has to purchase their stuff individually. Because if you had to spend fiddy bucks for just a few things, you're kinda thinking "meh, that's not worth it". If you spend the same fiddy bucks, but get access to a whole array of stuff, you'd be a lot more inspired. So ethically I don't see a problem with it.

 

I believe, if every modding community did this, it would lead to more sales, not less.

 

Or let's see this from yet another angle, let's assume we are the actual developers of 7dtd. And we have our own assets. But, as a service to the modding community, we would stuff all kinds of assets from the store into the game, so that modders have material to work with. Plants, tools, vehicles, etc. Spend 1000 bucks at the store to give the community material. Would that be unethical? I see no reason, because it is implausible that modders will spent that kind of money. Because modders don't make any money off of their work.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

@Prisma501

On Steam other modding communities do things like this. Where you have a mod that other mods use things from its very common in the Workshop there is even a function in the Steam Workshop to add a notification to the player when they subscribe to a mod that needs another mod to work.

 

This is legal because the mod would be free. If I tried to charge to be in a group that had access to the Asset Mod (like Napster) that would be illegal. This would not and is common practice on Steam Workshop

Interesting. Can you link a couple of examples for this?

 

Obviously - needless to say - I like the idea, but I also would only participate if I knew it is legal.

[Spider]

@Kubikus

 

What makes things illegal is when people start redistributing the asset files. The AMT would have a license like any other buyer of the assets to do that. But no one else would be able to repack it in offer it for download.

 

As for the removing files thing this is a technical thing. I would imagine if this got going it would have a lot of files and the asset files can be large. I was just thinking logistically what would be the easiest way for the end user to use the files. It would need to be tried out to see what worked best and was simplest for the end-user to do. But the idea is sound.

 

Also no you don't need any other files for the mod. The mod would be the loadable assets that's it. How you used them would be up to the end user or whatever mod they were using that utilized the ATM assets

 

 

As for Steam Example's, off the top of my head....

 

Project Zomboid - Hydro Craft, other mods use this as a base and branch off of it

Rim World- Huglids, doesn't even do anything but is used by a ton of other mods

Rim World - RT's Weapons, other mods use this and redo his stats on the weapons he added

[Doombringer101]

https://unity3d.com/legal/as_terms

Section 2.2.1 covers it I believe.

 

2.2.1 Non-Restricted Assets. The following concerns only Assets that are not Restricted Assets: Licensor grants to the END-USER a non-exclusive, worldwide, and perpetual license to the Asset to integrate it only as incorporated and embedded components of electronic games and digital media and distribute such electronic game and digital media; reproduction and display in distributed physical advertising materials is permitted solely for marketing purposes in respect of such electronic games or digital media. Except for game services software development kits (“Services SDKs”), END-USERS may modify Assets. END-USER may otherwise not reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, distribute, sublicense, rent, lease or lend the Assets. It is emphasized that the END-USERS shall not be entitled to distribute or transfer in any way (including, without, limitation by way of sublicense) the Assets in any other way than as integrated components of electronic games and digital media or in supporting physical marketing materials. Without limitation of the foregoing it is emphasized that END-USER shall not be entitled to share the costs related to purchasing an Asset and then let any third party that has contributed to such purchase use such Asset (forum pooling).

 

I suggest asking the question in the Unity forums for additional clarification if required.

[Guppycur]

Definition of asset is needed to be understood too...

 

.unitypackage = asset

.unity3d = compiled asset

 

So which is not distributable? First for sure... But the second gets distroed all of the time.

 

So, if a master mod were to be made and one giant .unity3d file included, modders would only need to reference the file they want in the xml.

 

Everyone gets master.unity3d, only ONE dev (not a team!) gets the .unitypackage for each asset.

 

...but this is how it already is now. Problem is, people don't like sharing their bought assets compiled .unity3d files, which is okay, because there is a lot of work that goes into turning a .unitypackage into a .unity3d file. Sometimes, even additional bought assets.

 

So as much as I like the idea, we already do this, just on a smaller scale.

[Spider]

@Doombringer101-

 

I have no doubt about the legality of this project it is already being done in other ways on steam and here.

 

@Guppycur-

 

Yes I understand you and others already do this on a smaller personal scale. What I am suggesting is we make it less excusive club thing and more a community thing. Also I understand that it does take a lot of work to prepare the assets for 7D2D. But unlike others I believe the purpose of technology is to make things easier for others, for the hard work of one to make the work of others faster and easier. I have no wish to force others to do work that I have already done and I can easily share and I know for a fact that many other modders here also feel the same way I do and also find it aggravating to spend hours doing work that is not necessary because it has already been done. This is why many if not most Modders share their work.

[Spider]

Just think of how many hours of a modders life we could save if instead of having to set up and rig every added asset you could use a data base of 7D2D ready assets. How many more cool things would modders have time to make and think up with all those hundreds of hours saved?

 

Think about this, what if Magoli put all this personal work and time into his Combo Pack and then didn't share it and forced everyone to custom build all their own POIs or individually have to go around and collect them from their creators and set them up. That would suck and the 7D2D Modding Community would be lesser without his shared work. Well that is how we are handling assets right now and I don't think we have too is all. I think there is another way.

[Prisma501]

@Prisma501

On Steam other modding communities do things like this. Where you have a mod that other mods use things from its very common in the Workshop there is even a function in the Steam Workshop to add a notification to the player when they subscribe to a mod that needs another mod to work.

 

This is legal because the mod would be free. If I tried to charge to be in a group that had access to the Asset Mod (like Napster) that would be illegal. This would not and is common practice on Steam Workshop

 

That section posted earlier says something completely different. Non-commercial and even lending are addressed. Calling a bundle of compiled assets the name mod doesn't make it one. That's a big difference with an existing mod that happens to have a cool vihicle you would like in your mod too (and even then it's stealing income from the artist).You are proposing a middleman construction where assets can be bought on request so that no one ever has to pay for the usage of that asset again. Nobody is saying everybody needs to do it all by themselves but this discussion has nothing to do with whether a modder wants to share his/her mod but paying for the usage of work that someone is making a living of. Share your compiled assets at free will. But if they need to be paid for, why not let the receiver of your download pay the artist who's work he is using too? Then this would be a beautiful construction. Now it's just dodging responsibility imo.

 

Cheers

 

-edit- concrete example: that wilderness mod. IF Jax would have given permission to use HIS work. Then the creator of wilderness is going to use all payed for assets in Jax' mod too in a completely different mod. Why not let him pay for the usage of the assets too and be done with? He doesnt have to do all work for rigging the asset in. All nicely done and shared by Jax. But pay the artist or use only free assets from the stores.

 

Cheers

[Subquake]

I can already see a problem here - the sheer size of the asset mod. It would be huge, the more assets it would have, the bigger it would be and not everyone would want to download a 10+ gigabyte asset mod just to play another mod, that adds a handful of items from the asset mod.

 

1 asset with 2k textures - around 60mb (uncompressed)

10 assets with 2k textures - 600mb (uncompressed)

 

I hope you get my point. .unity3d File would be compressed, but still it would be a lot of gigabytes and it would directly impact games loading time on startup.

 

My Undead Legacy asset library for A17 is already around 25+ gigabytes uncompressed and it's gonna be a challenge to say the least to play my updated mod in A17 with weak video cards (< 6gb VRAM) and < 16gb system RAM.

 

Not everyone likes big mods such as Starvation or similar big mods, that require you to download a lot of stuff. Mods like that are for veteran players, that like to venture out into the unknown and have completely new experiences with new stuff to see etc.

[Spider]

@Prisma501

 

If the ATM needs to have a basic xml included to load the assets in order to fulfill some legal requirement I see no problem to that being included but not used in game. Also I wasn't trying to debate Modders sharing just trying to give and example of how this could be useful and benefit all modders and players alike. Everyone has the free will to do as they wish. To use the mod if they want to or not be involved at all.

 

@Subquake-

 

Yes I thought about that, that's what I was saying have the end-user just download the Asset Pack needed then insert just the files needed to their files. The files would need to be organized on GitHub so the end-user wouldn't need to down load a huge file

[Subquake]

Yes I thought about that, that's what I was saying have the end-user just download the Asset Pack needed then insert just the files needed to their files. The files would need to be organized on GitHub so the end-user wouldn't need to down load a huge file

So you are suggesting a modular asset mod? And how would it be split up, by what criteria? The individual parts of such a master mod would still bloat over time and take up a lot of space.

[Spider]

@Subquake-

 

If by modular you mean the ATM would be a big mod and the parts would be able to be individually used then yes I guess that would be a good name. Exactly how everything would work I don't know. Like all projects it would be a evolving Mod and things would have to be thought out and tested. I'm not suggesting I have all the answers only that I can see that there could be a functional path to a good end product that would be used by many in the 7D2D community.

[Subquake]

Here's the thing... I personally wasn't a fan of some handful POIs in the Combo Pack, therefore I didn't include it in my mod and anyone, who downloaded Undead Legacy could have the pack installed manually, but because of those handful of POIs, that I didn't like, I didn't use the pack and frankly I was a bit tired of the fact, that so many mods included the pack in their mods, it was boring. I would have rather see unique POIs made tailored to the mods than see the same POIs in every mod I play. Problem with that pack was that it wasn't modular and it's a pain in the butt to go through all the POIs by hand and find the ones you don't like and excluding them from the mixer.

 

Similar rule would apply to assets, it would get pretty boring (at least for me) to see the same assets over and over and over again in every mod. I for example might have higher standards for assets, while other modders would settle for something more modest and cheaper or even free assets as an example.

[Prisma501]

@Prisma501

 

If the ATM needs to have a basic xml included to load the assets in order to fulfill some legal requirement I see no problem to that being included but not used in game. Also I wasn't trying to debate Modders sharing just trying to give and example of how this could be useful and benefit all modders and players alike. Everyone has the free will to do as they wish. To use the mod if they want to or not be involved at all.

 

 

How you mean. How is putting an xml in ATM paying the artist for every use?

 

Dont get me wrong, i totally love the idea to make it easier for moddors, but get the impression this is all about not paying the artist of the asset. Hence the "freely". That is not okey imo.

 

Cheers

[Subquake]

How you mean. How is putting an xml in ATM paying the artist for every use?

 

Dont get me wrong, i totally love the idea to make it easier for moddors, but get the impression this is all about not paying the artist of the asset. Hence the "freely". That is not okey imo.

 

Cheers

As long as the asset master mod author is the only one redistributing his work and others just tag along and attach custom XML that reference the assets and require people to download the asset master mod first, from a legal stand point it should be ok.

 

Don't forget, that we don't sell the mods and the money we get to buy assets is either from our personal pockets or from donations & support money from people, that like what we do. With the end product - a mod or an asset mod, we don't earn anything other than satisfaction for the passionate hobby work we do to bring you custom experiences over the vanilla game. That's why I understand the frustration, when someone basically steals the assets, especially including the hard work put into making them game ready, because getting the assets is just the first step, scaling the assets and tweaking them to match the games scale etc is a lot harder than you think, especially for weapons & entities, that have animations attached to them.

 

P.S. I don't like the acronym ATM, it associates with an automatic cash machine...

 

[Prisma501]

As long as the asset master mod author is the only one redistributing his work and others just tag along and attach custom XML that reference the assets and require people to download the asset master mod first, from a legal stand point it should be ok. Don't forget, that we don't sell the mods and the money we get to buy assets is either from our personal pockets or from donations & support money from people, that like what we do. With the end product - a mod or an asset mod, we don't earn anything other than satisfaction for the passionate hobby work we do to bring you custom experiences over the vanilla game.

 

P.S. I don't like the acronym ATM, it associates with automatic cash machine...

 

 

What im saying is that the creator of the asset does this not only for fun and satisfaction. Then the asset would be free. And this construction is only made not to have to pay for assets anymore. Does it matter you dont earn anything with your mods? Imo just not okey.

 

You can take beer from a supermarket without paying because you dont make money with it but just drink it?

 

Cheers

[Subquake]

@Prisma501

 

I think selling assets for mod creators on asset stores is not the main target audience for the asset creators (I might be wrong here), but in general my assumption is that the assets are meant more for video game creation and creation of animated scenes etc.

 

Not every mod author or team has the luxury to buy expensive assets for their mods just because of the fact, that they won't get anything in return of doing so, while if they would make their own game, eventually if the game would be successful, they could get some return over the investment in the assets they bought to make the game.

[Spider]

 

P.S. I don't like the acronym ATM, it associates with an automatic cash machine...

 

 

HAHA! I didn't think of that lol. Ya would need another name.

[Spider]

@Prisma501-

 

Let me calm your fears and state somethings I assumed where apparent. This Mod would be like any other mod that adds assets to 7D2D. It/I/They would legally purchase the asset from the creator and post/include any legalese language that is required by the creator. It/I/They would also plainly and clearly state that the mod could not be re distributed or any parts in it be redistributed. No different than any other mod that adds copyrighted assets currently. The mod would not be the files that are purchased from the creator they would be the 7D2D load ready files it/I/they created. Even if someone else purchased a asset and wanted to donate a 7D2D load ready asset it/I/they would still have to go purchase legally the original asset for legal reasons to include it in the mod.

[Alloc]

Not affected but I still wonder why this is even going on for so long for people who say they want to stay legal. Doombringer already brought up the relevant part:

https://unity3d.com/legal/as_terms

Section 2.2.1 covers it I believe.

 

2.2.1 Non-Restricted Assets. The following concerns only Assets that are not Restricted Assets: Licensor grants to the END-USER a non-exclusive, worldwide, and perpetual license to the Asset to integrate it only as incorporated and embedded components of electronic games and digital media and distribute such electronic game and digital media; reproduction and display in distributed physical advertising materials is permitted solely for marketing purposes in respect of such electronic games or digital media. Except for game services software development kits (“Services SDKs”), END-USERS may modify Assets. END-USER may otherwise not reproduce, publicly display, publicly perform, transmit, distribute, sublicense, rent, lease or lend the Assets. It is emphasized that the END-USERS shall not be entitled to distribute or transfer in any way (including, without, limitation by way of sublicense) the Assets in any other way than as integrated components of electronic games and digital media or in supporting physical marketing materials. Without limitation of the foregoing it is emphasized that END-USER shall not be entitled to share the costs related to purchasing an Asset and then let any third party that has contributed to such purchase use such Asset (forum pooling).

 

I suggest asking the question in the Unity forums for additional clarification if required.

Emphasis added by me: That's pretty specifically forbidding what you're talking about here. Can't be any more precise than that

 

Also, I agree with Prisma: Even if it *was* ok from a legal standpoint what you're talking about is saying ripping off people is ok because you want to use stuff for free and don't earn anything yourself (IMO).

 

But either way, not my call what you guys do, just thought I would bring up that quote again as I think it was missed.

[Prisma501]

@Prisma501

 

I think selling assets for mod creators on asset stores is not the main target audience for the asset creators (I might be wrong here), but in general my assumption is that the assets are meant more for video game creation and creation of animated scenes etc.

 

Not every mod author or team has the luxury to buy expensive assets for their mods just because of the fact, that they won't get anything in return of doing so, while if they would make their own game, eventually if the game would be successful, they could get some return over the investment in the assets they bought to make the game.

 

If you don't have the luxury, don't use it. There are plenty of free ones around. With your logic I could go a take a Ferrari without paying, because I just can't afford the darn thing. Not making money with it mind you. So all good. Guess it's a morality thingy. I'll leave you to it,. Pris out.

 

Cheers

[Alloc]

I think selling assets for mod creators on asset stores is not the main target audience for the asset creators (I might be wrong here), but in general my assumption is that the assets are meant more for video game creation and creation of animated scenes etc.

If that was the case contacting to the author of the assets you want to use and ask them for permission would solve all your problems already because if they didn't care about such use they would give you the required permission.

[Subquake]

@Prisma501

Isn't this the whole reasoning behind making the ATM, so that people without money, could have custom assets in their mods...

 

@Alloc

"shall not be entitled to share the costs related to purchasing an Asset" - it's a gray area, because people can donate and support mod authors by paypal/patreon/other means and mod creators can spend that money to buy assets if they wish to do so. The supporters don't share the costs, they donate the cash to the mod author and he can do whatever he wants with it without any obligations other than maybe some legally nonbinding promises.

 

"and then let any third party that has contributed to such purchase use such Asset (forum pooling)" - obviously people, who contribute with donations don't have any rights over the assets obtained by the mod author, that buys assets in question.