Nikola Posted May 4, 2017 Share Posted May 4, 2017 What "hand holding" does the mod add? and if I add this you will not be able to easily undo it without massive xml rewrites and re balancing.. We removed the 2x resource multipler, healing on beds, guns for followers, toned down the starting benefits for classes (no guns, for example), removed brain schnitzel, wellness juice, weekly/monthly magazines, some prefabs that were effectively goldmines were deleted (glass factory, I am looking at you), vitamins no longer give what felt like 10 wellness, profession pages removed from zombie drops entirely. Those were the major items we found that made an otherwise great mod feel too easy early game. Unrelated to your mod, but we also have a 5 min despawn on player backpacks (so starting tools over at 1 is a major setback - most players who die lose their entire inventory on death), always run is turned on after day 14 (we do periodic resets), 25% loot (no respawn), no air drops, days are 120 mins but nights 12hrs, difficulty is ramped up to max and block durability ramped down to min when we decide to do a server wipe (last man standing horde night - winner gets free lunch for a week). Your mod is great, it's why we (my brother, our kids and wives) play it - in fact, it was the primitive/journeyman crafting that we love - absolutely no one grinds, we can focus on base building and dying glorious deaths. No doubt it would be a lot of xml tweaking to maintain the current system. I am not arguing for the sake of saving me time here though, I am befuddled at the notion that it removes grinding - it does the exact opposite. Ignoring all the changes we have made, I no longer gain any skill benefit from building a base (this is where we gain 90% of our primitive/journeyman crafting). To get a better axe (until I am level 20, or skill 20?) I am making a level 1 axe that I have to grind up. With normal settings, it very possible to lose a backpack when exploring - this negates 100% of the time I spent making my axe, making my shovel, making my hammer, weapons? All that is level 1. Not sure how long you intend for the new repair process to take, but assuming I had these at 100 or so, that is 300-500 hundred repairs I need to make. At 10 seconds a repair, we are looking at a lost time investment of an hour to an hour and a half...over a full day (your settings) of just repairs to replace lost items...and that's only to get back 100 points from 3 - 5 items! Imagine you had a set of iron tools up to 400 or so (but only level 30, so you craft at 100). You are looking at a week of repairs just to replace those tools. This is just accounting for time, not materials. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidianmcbovril Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 I always replace over repair until the fixer perk unlocks. Isn't that the point of the perk? There doesn't seem to be a benefit before then to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
abarham Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 Hey everyone -- I'm playing on a slightly (very slight) modded version of TS and I'm curious what you do between Iron and Steel... I can make 500+ level iron weapons by about level 50 (no grinding, just repairing the ones I have and making new ones), have a good repeating crossbow, and all the concrete I could ever want but still have a hard time with horde nights... Mind you this is not surviving -- that's fairly straight forward with spikes, traps, barbed wire, etc -- but this is more along the lines of what do you do? I feel like until I get to 75 I kind of need to grind. Whether this grind is the general play loop of the game (build, explore, loot, kill) or actual grinding doesn't seem to matter, but I feel like I had a goal at the lower levels, and now I feel like I'm waiting for the gated level 75 stuff (bullets, steel, etc.) before I can progress any further. Not bitching, just curious if there is something that I'm missing ... Likely will try and make mazes for the zombies to walk through ... if I can get them to do it, and see mischief I can get into with that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tetrameth Posted May 5, 2017 Share Posted May 5, 2017 We removed the 2x resource multipler, healing on beds, guns for followers, toned down the starting benefits for classes (no guns, for example), removed brain schnitzel, wellness juice, weekly/monthly magazines, some prefabs that were effectively goldmines were deleted (glass factory, I am looking at you), vitamins no longer give what felt like 10 wellness, profession pages removed from zombie drops entirely. Those were the major items we found that made an otherwise great mod feel too easy early game. Unrelated to your mod, but we also have a 5 min despawn on player backpacks (so starting tools over at 1 is a major setback - most players who die lose their entire inventory on death), always run is turned on after day 14 (we do periodic resets), 25% loot (no respawn), no air drops, days are 120 mins but nights 12hrs, difficulty is ramped up to max and block durability ramped down to min when we decide to do a server wipe (last man standing horde night - winner gets free lunch for a week). Your mod is great, it's why we (my brother, our kids and wives) play it - in fact, it was the primitive/journeyman crafting that we love - absolutely no one grinds, we can focus on base building and dying glorious deaths. No doubt it would be a lot of xml tweaking to maintain the current system. I am not arguing for the sake of saving me time here though, I am befuddled at the notion that it removes grinding - it does the exact opposite. Ignoring all the changes we have made, I no longer gain any skill benefit from building a base (this is where we gain 90% of our primitive/journeyman crafting). To get a better axe (until I am level 20, or skill 20?) I am making a level 1 axe that I have to grind up. With normal settings, it very possible to lose a backpack when exploring - this negates 100% of the time I spent making my axe, making my shovel, making my hammer, weapons? All that is level 1. Not sure how long you intend for the new repair process to take, but assuming I had these at 100 or so, that is 300-500 hundred repairs I need to make. At 10 seconds a repair, we are looking at a lost time investment of an hour to an hour and a half...over a full day (your settings) of just repairs to replace lost items...and that's only to get back 100 points from 3 - 5 items! Imagine you had a set of iron tools up to 400 or so (but only level 30, so you craft at 100). You are looking at a week of repairs just to replace those tools. This is just accounting for time, not materials. In a scenario such as the one your describe where it is basically just your family playing, its pretty easy to police grinding. So to imply that the primitive/journeyman mechanic ends grinding for all is a bit of a longshot. In light of the idea in getting people to just play the damn game rather than artificially cranking out useless items to play a 'chase the numbers game', the fact that the option is there is reason enough that there is room for improvement. I'm now convinced you are not comprehending the answers that you are being given. Each post you make tries to make a point of something that has already been outlined in a previous post. At a glance, in you last post the 2 most prominent ones are the fact that these proposed changes will affect your personally 'modded' version of 'True Survival' which makes your whole post kind of moot, and the second one strangely enough, is your inability to still not recognize that building a base will in fact land you with 'skill benefits' that you will carry with you regardless of if you permanently lose your tool because of some changes you made to the game options. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
altug Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 The crossbow flashlight seems not working, what am I missing? I can't see any skill/requirement related to it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine576 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 All points, are valid, about grinding. No matter what is done, we will still be grinding. But i like spiders proposed changes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 No one wants to force anyone to grind. The current progression is an improvement on that so grinding is not required like it seems to be in the vanilla version. What Spider is attempting is to improve this even further. Until he codes it up and we can test on the server, I do not know if this will be an improvement or not. if it isn't, we can always use the current system. If it is an improvement, we will put it into the release version. Either way, we will not be forcing anyone to grind. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine576 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Grinding skill, xp or anything is part of the video game in general, making the grinding the least tedious, boring, that can be controversial lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nikola Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Tetrameth, you have accused me of failing to read and failing to understand replies a few times now. What am I not understanding? What assumption am I not getting correct? Spider wants to eliminate the three current methods of raising a players tool skill. Spider wants to add specific skills for each tool. Currently, a player gains skill for a set of tools from repairing, crafting, and base building with that set. He proposes all tools (weapons?) begin at level one. All repairs improve the tool. At level 20, 40, etc - players can spend skill points for a specific tool to raise the base craft level to 100, 200, etc. It was alluded we would need to combine tools for the repair process. This was all done in the name of reducing grinding. Then he asked for feedback on this system. These are from Spiders posts. What is not correct or has since been changed? Please answer this - if I am not understanding something, I want to know. I gave reasons why this change introduces grinding. I included numbers on how much time this change will cost players in replacing tools assuming Spiders recommended settings. Upwards of two days of pure repairing before you get iron tools - ignoring the time to wear down those tools and ignoring the material costs. You are taking the least fun part of the game, having a level 1 axe, and making it the default playstyle for 20 levels. This biggest problem with this method isn't that it uses repairing - that's cool. The problem is you are putting players time into an item. I don't know how else to show how terrible this is for players. At level 30, people are looking at literal weeks of game time replacing those tools. Time to gather materials, time to wear down tools, time to do the actual repair. How is that an improvement? How does that reduce grinding? We have the option to avoid grinding now - you are removing it. You could lower repair times to 1 second and it will still take a week to replace a set of 400 level iron tools. If you do this, we wouldn't want to redo the xml - the changes would be too much. All we would do is extend the repair time, extend the craft time (we already make tools default 2 min craft) and make the gains apply to the player not the tool. If I can repair a tool to 250 QL, I can craft one to start at that level. Problem solved. We would balance from there. I've given all the feedback on this I can assuming I understand the proposed changes. I won't bother you guys with it anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Erik Louden Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Hopefully Spider just does it and we figure it out from there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted May 6, 2017 Author Share Posted May 6, 2017 Hopefully Spider just does it and we figure it out from there. ding ding ding lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wolverine576 Posted May 6, 2017 Share Posted May 6, 2017 Yeah, peoples egos and lack of courtesy, and respect for the way people talk to each other are lacking in this thread. Been that way for along time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ketsu Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Anyone know some easy ways to lvl up engineering and gun smithing ? Something cheap to craft or do to lvl it up @.@ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Anyone know some easy ways to lvl up engineering and gun smithing ? Something cheap to craft or do to lvl it up @.@ Using the screwdriver on things will level engineering. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzland Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Can work benches still be picked up and moved with crowbar? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Spider Posted May 7, 2017 Author Share Posted May 7, 2017 Can work benches still be picked up and moved with crowbar? yes they can Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blaiseit Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Park ranger perk Under quests for the park ranger perk it requires you to build a bear trap and since you can't build it in your inventory the quest can't be completed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
obsidianmcbovril Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Have you lowered the bikeNabox loot count or have I just been extremely unlucky on this play through at day 15 without finding any? Usually get at least three because I know which prefabs to look in.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 7, 2017 Share Posted May 7, 2017 Have you lowered the bikeNabox loot count or have I just been extremely unlucky on this play through at day 15 without finding any? Usually get at least three because I know which prefabs to look in.... I did lower them somewhat but they are still more common than I would like. Keep searching! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ozzland Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 Is recipe for iron bars something i have to find a book for? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gways Posted May 8, 2017 Share Posted May 8, 2017 yes i have found the book Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I have a patch ready to commit, so if anyone has found any new or unpatched bugs please post today. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sphereii Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 I have a patch ready to commit, so if anyone has found any new or unpatched bugs please post today. Oh no, you are doing it wrong... *xyth creates fake patch* xyth: New Patch released! Forum: Was x, y, and z fixed? That was broken for a long time! *xyth spends 5 minutes fixing* xyth: Patched! Thanks! *xyth actually releases new patch* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 Under quests for the park ranger perk it requires you to build a bear trap and since you can't build it in your inventory the quest can't be completed. You need to be in the workbench when the beartrap is finished crafting in order to get credit for making it. - - - Updated - - - Oh no, you are doing it wrong... *xyth creates fake patch* xyth: New Patch released! Forum: Was x, y, and z fixed? That was broken for a long time! *xyth spends 5 minutes fixing* xyth: Patched! Thanks! *xyth actually releases new patch* <Ha!> That's the oldschool model...trying something different. Expecting Crickets though..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xyth Posted May 9, 2017 Share Posted May 9, 2017 The crossbow flashlight seems not working, what am I missing? I can't see any skill/requirement related to it. This is a known issue with the mesh files not allowing the flashlight to activate. There is nothing we can do about this at this time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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