Early game tips and tricks for newbies and veterans alike

[Mr_PeaCH]

I am embarrassed to report how many hours I have put into the game but I'm continually amazed by how I find fun, different and often better ways of doing things. Figured I'd start a thread and see if I could maybe help someone out and hopefully learn something in return myself.

 

I'm specifically thinking of things that are useful to know or maybe fun to try in the early game; the first two or three weeks say. In my typical (SP, RWG) game this is the time I'm finding my first and hopefully second towns, deciding where I might like to build or improve a permanent base, judiciously spending my skill points and starting to build better tools, etc.

 

PRO TIP:

 

The cemetery POIs make excellent places to hole up in for the first few nights. They are surrounded by strong, high walls and bars (you only have to fix up one small section) and are big enough that you're not likely to be sensed by random roaming zeds. And finally, since there's not much productive that you can 'do' at night in the first few nights - you have the entire cemetery to roam and loot coffins. Some decent early game stuff to be had and a great way to raise your Looting Skill if nothing else.

 

Usually I try and look for a 2 story POI; even just an old burned out home down a dirt path. Knock out the stairs and just stay hidden in the attic or upstairs all night. At maximum there are maybe only a couple trash bags or maybe a body or backpack to loot so not much to do other than grind at early tools, weapons or crafting - skills which all generally are gained normally pretty quickly anyway.

 

So when a recent game forced me to hole up first night in a cemetery I was impressed and wondered why I'd never considered them before. I kept moving my torch around and looted the entire cemetery under cover of darkness and kept clear of zombies the entire time.

[The-Walking-Dad]

The cemetery POIs make excellent places to hole up in for the first few nights. They are surrounded by strong, high walls and bars (you only have to fix up one small section) and are big enough that you're not likely to be sensed by random roaming zeds. And finally, since there's not much productive that you can 'do' at night in the first few nights - you have the entire cemetery to roam and loot coffins. Some decent early game stuff to be had and a great way to raise your Looting Skill if nothing else.

 

So when a recent game forced me to hole up first night in a cemetery I was impressed and wondered why I'd never considered them before. I kept moving my torch around and looted the entire cemetery under cover of darkness and kept clear of zombies the entire time.

 

 

I think the cemetery is an almost perfect base. It's a little too big to defend, or would be if zombies approached from all sides in significant numbers. But if you knock into each crypt you have a decent sized and strength starter base, easy to expand, and if you till the soil (after replacing it after looting it, if that's your approach) then you've got a decent sized farm too. Plus zombies shouldn't spawn on tilled land, so that's a bonus.

 

Usually I try and look for a 2 story POI; even just an old burned out home down a dirt path. Knock out the stairs and just stay hidden in the attic or upstairs all night. At maximum there are maybe only a couple trash bags or maybe a body or backpack to loot so not much to do other than grind at early tools, weapons or crafting - skills which all generally are gained normally pretty quickly anyway.

 

I dislike grinding skills by mass crafting, I dislike knocking out the bottom rung of ladders, I dislike wood-framing entrances without upgrading them, and I dislike knocking out stairs. By not doing these things I feel a lot more tension about my looting and building. And when it comes to the weekly horde! Wow, I'm genuinely worried and defending my base actively. I'd recommend this stuff for a play through at least (but then, I've lowered the rate of skill progression by 1/4 and I'm considering lowering it again to 1/2).

 

Blade weapons (bone shiv, hunting knife, machete) are the best melee weapons in the game. They double as tools, so save inventory space.

 

Stone axe is the best early-game tool. It triples as butcher tool, wood chopper, and mining tool. Saves inventory space. Don't be in a hurry to make an iron fire axe/pickaxe! The stone axe is much cheaper and much more effective at lower levels.

 

In the first 24 hours: run far, run fast. You only have a short grace period from temperature/weather survival. Make it count and explore as much as you can as quickly as you can so you can uncover comfortable surroundings as quickly as possible. This improves your chance of finding a decent looting spot (town) too and of gaining experience fighting zombies (not mechanic-based experience, but player experience from getting used to the undead).

 

Initial thoughts on your post. Love these, always helpful.

[Zor_The_Cruel]

unless you start the game in a snow or pine forest biome, dont wait around until you are overheating to make your first plant fiber hat and bandana.(they help lower your body temperature) The first few days are rough on finding clean water to drink and overheating at all makes you dehydrate, and fast. Make that hat and bandana and put them on so you dont forget. both are super-cheap to make right away, waiting until you are overheating will cost you a lot of hydration.

 

Also, for the veterans like me, previous builds of this game had cobblestone as *much* more resource intensive to make. Now cobblestone just costs small amounts of small rocks and clay, which is super-abundant basically everywhere via clay spots on the terrain and the small iron-rich boulders. And a few wood and plant fibers for the frame (also super easy to collect). Total price of fully filling in a cobblestone frame = 10 small rocks and 10 clay, converted into 10 cobblestone. Super cheap and effective and supports a lot more weight than wood does. probably wont be able to make enough for fortifying on the first night unless you changed to 90 or 120 min days, but within a few days of knocking down trees and the boulders while exploring, using the trusty stone axe for both, and dig up some clay with the stone shovel and you have the resources to build a much stronger fortification than wood or reinforced wood offers.(once you find a POI that you want to make your early base camp. or if you find a sweet spot near good POI's and want to make a structure from scratch.) Dont be so quick to spend points on that cement perk just because it used to be a hard to find book, it isnt even needed for the early/mid game.(or late game either, but that's my opinion) Cobblestone is sturdy, strong, and can be crafted right from the backpack while doing other things. no forge needed at all.

[Mr_PeaCH]

TWD: appreciate your input. Yeah, knocking out the stairs or ladders is so much cheese. But I look at it like this... In a real zombie apocalypse I'd find or build a movable ladder and pull it up after me when I'm safely upstairs. And yeah, I could totally see using the cemetery long term as an initial base. I hear you too on being too big to defend a real onslaught but they do typically come from the same direction and another touch I put on it was to build ways over the wall to escape in all cardinal directions in an emergency.

 

Zor: Yes! Cobblestones for the win nowadays. In fact I've just about given up worrying about making cement/concrete and just use cobblestone stuctures early and late game. I've also forced myself to go adobe (they even made "Peach Adobe"; how could I refuse?) in a desert biome I wanted to base in. Not nearly as strong as the cobblestone granted but they do give you some more fun pieces/shapes to work with aesthetically. Thanks also for your input.

[Gipothegip]

Also, for the veterans like me, previous builds of this game had cobblestone as *much* more resource intensive to make. Now cobblestone just costs small amounts of small rocks and clay, which is super-abundant basically everywhere via clay spots on the terrain and the small iron-rich boulders. And a few wood and plant fibers for the frame (also super easy to collect). Total price of fully filling in a cobblestone frame = 10 small rocks and 10 clay, converted into 10 cobblestone. Super cheap and effective and supports a lot more weight than wood does. probably wont be able to make enough for fortifying on the first night unless you changed to 90 or 120 min days, but within a few days of knocking down trees and the boulders while exploring, using the trusty stone axe for both, and dig up some clay with the stone shovel and you have the resources to build a much stronger fortification than wood or reinforced wood offers.(once you find a POI that you want to make your early base camp. or if you find a sweet spot near good POI's and want to make a structure from scratch.) Dont be so quick to spend points on that cement perk just because it used to be a hard to find book, it isnt even needed for the early/mid game.(or late game either, but that's my opinion) Cobblestone is sturdy, strong, and can be crafted right from the backpack while doing other things. no forge needed at all.

 

Concrete seems to take a lot more effort than it used to. I'll have to check out cobblestone again, and see what it's like now (it's been a couple alpha's since I've built much).

 

On that note, I wonder if bricks are any good?

[Balkoth]

Cobblestone was quite useful in A13 when it had 3000. It's been severely nerfed to be only be 1500 HP in A14. Yeah, it costs a few less materials in A14 (10 Clay and 10 Stone rather than 16 Clay and 16 Stone, plus the 5 Wood and 1 Plant Fiber for the frame in both cases) but the resulting block is too weak to be of real use. I mean, look at the comparison between it and Reinforced Concrete:

 

16 Stone, 16 Clay, 5 Wood, 1 Plant Fiber = 1500 HP

 

30 Stone, 10 Sand, 10 Wood, 1 Iron, 0.2 Clay = 9000 HP

 

If you're thinking "Man, how do I get Sand if I'm not near a desert or a lake with sandy shores?"

 

Answer #1: Gravel. It can be found on the edge of paved roads or you can find the "small roads" made entirely of Gravel. Gravel is something like 8 Stone and 7 Sand for 100 HP. Dig it up with a Shovel.

 

Answer #2: Wastelands. The "rock" in the Wasteland gives 11 Stone and 4 Sand for 100 HP. Probably want to use a tool good vs Stone initially but later on can one shot it with a Steel Shovel.

 

Answer #3: Cement Mixer. Can grind Stone into Sand.

 

Brick...used to be good in A13. Was a way to make the 3000 HP Cobblestone more easily (no Plant Fibers or Wood needed -- and saved 2 Clay/6 Stone) if you had a Forge. Now it's a better cheap building material than Cobblestone (like 4 Clay for 1200 HP rather than 10 Stone/10 Clay/5 Wood/1 Plant Fiber for 1500 HP) but you're still better off going for Concrete.

 

Advice I would give in general...

 

1, you only get XP for natural skill ups. All those zombie kills give you zero XP.

 

2, schematics are a trap. If you read them solely for the skill increase, you lose potential XP. This is especially bad if you do so at a high skill level. You ideally want to read schematics at low skill level (less XP lost) or at max skill level (no XP lost).

 

3, XP is really important. Your odds of finding a 301+ quality item are apparently 1% until you hit level 97 (Quality Joe/Scavenging adds to that number, so read it as 451+ quality item if you have both maxed). Then you have a 38% chance to find a 301+ quality item. Kind of a massive difference. This is based on the loot.xml file. The file also seems to indicate that you have a better chance of finding books/rare items at higher levels too (with one breakpoint at level 101, so good number to shoot for). If that level 101 number seems daunting then it might relieve you to know that you can easily hit that level by the end of week 2 if you try. Miscellaneous Crafting (spam stuff like Wood Frames, Concrete Mix, Wood Log Spikes, etc), Weapon Smithing (spam Wooden Clubs, Arrowheads with the Forge open, completed arrows, etc), Tool Smithing (spam Stone Shovels or Anvils with the Forge open), Gunsmithing (spam Gunpowder), and Construction Tools (build your own base or just keep placing Wood Frames on the ground and upgrading them for the sole purpose of getting skill) are some of the easiest to level (and thus easiest to earn XP from). If you have a Desert available and the Gas Can schematic then you can level Science from 0 to 100 very quickly by making Gas with the Campfire open. If you're wondering, the next breakpoint after 97 is 129, which is *much* harder to hit and rather painful.

 

4, Iron Bars are excellent for making a "lip" to stop Spider Zombies. They not only act as a lip but also allow you to shoot down at the zombie horde.

 

5, get to Concrete ASAP. Steel is also a massive game-changer. I'm not sure what the "best" method of early base building is but I see four main options. A, build a Forge in a PoI initially and mass upgrade Wood Frames someplace else to get to 20 Construction tools. Then use Rebar Frames to build your actual base after that. B, build a temporary Wood fort with a Forge initially. Then use Rebar Frames to build your actual base after that. C, build a temporary Cobblestone fort with a Forge initially. Then use Rebar Frames to build your actual base after that. D, build your fort with Cobblestone and then upgrade to Reinforced Concrete. Catch is you need more Concrete Mix overall (twice as much, in fact) but you save some time in a few ways such as not needing to place Rebar Frames.

 

6, line up your shots. Headshots do massive damage and ammunition is likely to be an issue. Make the shots count -- the zombies are slow.

 

7, mining is insanely lucrative. Burrow into the ground in non-Desert/non-Plains/non-Snow and you'll find Coal, Nitrate, Iron, and Lead. Desert is useful for Oil Shale but that's later in the game and much less important early on. You will go from struggling to find Iron to overflowing in it. And have tons of materials to raise Gunsmithing (mass craft Gunpowder -- you'll use it eventually).

 

8, Quicker Crafting/Miner 69er/Run Forest Run are extremely powerful. Quicker crafting leads to faster everything including leveling which kind of builds on itself. Miner 69er lets you eventually one-shot Stone and speeds up harvesting massively. Run Forest Run lets you run extreme distances and saves a lot of travel time.

 

Will probably add more later.

[Fyrdrinc]

Cobblestone has, for a long time, been an extremely good building material. Now it's just extremely good because clay stopped being just a surface layer and now goes down about 5 blocks deep. You can make a LOT of cobblestone rocks after just a little bit of digging and some hacking up boulders. And the frame is quite reasonably priced...

 

The other one that they have improved enough to go with now is flagstone. Flagstone takes 3 cobblestone rocks per block and although it's not really great durability to make walls, it's a very adequate floor material. And it looks good adjacent to cobblestone. I use flagstone a lot to make flat defensive skirts around my bunkers, under spikes. I hate how dirt is lumpy and grows grass where I want to place spike fields, so I just make a bunch of flagstone and replace the ground layer with it. Then spikes can go in on top. Flagstone is also a nice way to line an underground passage or stairwell so you're not looking at bare rock all the time, without all that wood and fiber cost.

[Mr_PeaCH]

Balkoth -

 

I think I see your point about schematics and that reading them for skill points when you could be gaining both points in a skill set and XP by earning them; I had never considered that before. I don't generally min/max or go out of my way to grind unless it's something I need or want, but I get what you're saying and I'd never considered that before.

 

However I'm not sure I buy the math on Scavenging and 301+/451+ quality items. You'll hate that I do this but my strategy early is to spend skill points on Scavenging to get to the next 'bar' and start finding better stuff sooner. For example I try to have 20 points saved up by the time my naturally gained Scavenging is 20 so I can spend 10 to get instantly to 30 and then 10 more for the next Quality Joe - and again by about 45; save up 25 points to jump to 60 Scav and 3 QJ. In my current game I'm at level 42 on day 21; my Scavenging is now about 70 with Quality Joe at 3. I can't prove it but it feels like I'm finding deep blues (451+ and purples) and rates much higher than 1%.

 

Back to your points; I do take advantage of making big batches of gunpowder to raise Gun Smithing, or bolts for Weaponsmithing or just the act of building or fortifying with materials to improve their related skills AND gain XP. Just now I was bracing for my next horde and I must have gained 3 levels due to XP from all the stuff I was doing naturally; chopping wood, breaking rocks, digging clay, making spikes, cobblestones, frames, etc. Your post really brought home how the XP is gained.

[Anarki247]

The only tip I can give to help new players is to ensure you know how to build that first defensive structure for when you find yourself stuck out in the middle of nowhere when a horde comes along (night).

 

I was struggling to survive on my first few nights when I played this over a month ago. A friend then showed me how to build a little tower and now I can get one of these up in around 120 secs which can be a godsend when Ive found nowhere else to fortify on a long scavanging run.

 

There are tutorials on the forums I think which will help the newer payers.

[Balkoth]

However I'm not sure I buy the math on Scavenging and 301+/451+ quality items.

 

Unfortunately, it's not my math -- it's the developer's math.

 

<!-- This generates items with Quality Levels based on the player's level and skills / perks. -->
<!-- Level is the percentage to Max Level for the player. Max level is found in progression.xml -->
<!-- The list is worked from the top. If you get a hit, the associated QL is generated. -->
<!-- If there is no hit the default quality is used. -->
<!-- AFTER you have a QL, the QL of your scavenging skill / perk is added straight so once you have 150 in skills/perks you will never find an item lower than that. -->
<lootqualitytemplates>
<lootqualitytemplate name="baseTemplate">
	<qualitytemplate level="0,0.16" default_quality="1,100">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,100" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.16,0.32" default_quality="101,200">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,200" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.32,0.48" default_quality="201,300">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.48,0.64" default_quality="301,400">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.03"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".10"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.75"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.64,0.80" default_quality="401,500">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.5"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.80,1" default_quality="501,600">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.10"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.4"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplates>

 

Now, I *know* that's at least slightly wrong since I've seen items <150 even with max Quality Joe and Scavenging...but I don't know if that's a bug with QJ/Scavenging or with the base "code" (note: that's technically not actual code -- code would be clearer and easier to read).

 

You'll hate that I do this but my strategy early is to spend skill points on Scavenging to get to the next 'bar' and start finding better stuff sooner.

 

Not at all. I buy up to 90 Scavenging and 3/3 Quality Joe. Leave the last 10 points for XP gain since they're worth the most anyway and make like a 3 point difference in quality.

 

I don't generally min/max or go out of my way to grind unless it's something I need or want, but I get what you're saying and I'd never considered that before.

 

I wouldn't even be worried about it if A14 hadn't massively nerfed loot progression compared to A13. And as that loot table shows there are major breakpoints at specific character levels. Level 97-101 isn't that bad -- but hitting the level 129 breakpoint is painful. I really don't want to be throwing away easily gained XP earlier on.

 

To be clear: I don't like that this is the new model. I don't like that you're effectively punished for scavenging early on with horrendously crappy loot until you hit level 97. And get bonuses (as far as I can tell) to finding stuff like Calipers at level 51 and 101. It really encourages just grinding XP/base building for the first week or two and then scavenging like crazy -- and trying to mix up the two makes you worse off.

[Epicurius]

Balkoth -

 

I think I see your point about schematics and that reading them for skill points when you could be gaining both points in a skill set and XP by earning them; I had never considered that before. I don't generally min/max or go out of my way to grind unless it's something I need or want, but I get what you're saying and I'd never considered that before.

 

However I'm not sure I buy the math on Scavenging and 301+/451+ quality items. You'll hate that I do this but my strategy early is to spend skill points on Scavenging to get to the next 'bar' and start finding better stuff sooner. For example I try to have 20 points saved up by the time my naturally gained Scavenging is 20 so I can spend 10 to get instantly to 30 and then 10 more for the next Quality Joe - and again by about 45; save up 25 points to jump to 60 Scav and 3 QJ. In my current game I'm at level 42 on day 21; my Scavenging is now about 70 with Quality Joe at 3. I can't prove it but it feels like I'm finding deep blues (451+ and purples) and rates much higher than 1%.

 

Back to your points; I do take advantage of making big batches of gunpowder to raise Gun Smithing, or bolts for Weaponsmithing or just the act of building or fortifying with materials to improve their related skills AND gain XP. Just now I was bracing for my next horde and I must have gained 3 levels due to XP from all the stuff I was doing naturally; chopping wood, breaking rocks, digging clay, making spikes, cobblestones, frames, etc. Your post really brought home how the XP is gained.

 

I just want to throw out there just how refreshing it is to have a post like this on these forums. Thanks Mr. Peach.

[Technech]

My tips is to use weapons to deal the final blow to blocks and safes to get up the skill.

example: Place a lot of flagstone blocks, use your favorite tool to get them down to 1 HP (use your fist at the end to get it exactly right), then use your bow to destroy them. You will see that your skill with the bow goes up much faster that way than by killing zombies.

[Epicurius]

Unfortunately, it's not my math -- it's the developer's math.

 

<!-- This generates items with Quality Levels based on the player's level and skills / perks. -->
<!-- Level is the percentage to Max Level for the player. Max level is found in progression.xml -->
<!-- The list is worked from the top. If you get a hit, the associated QL is generated. -->
<!-- If there is no hit the default quality is used. -->
<!-- AFTER you have a QL, the QL of your scavenging skill / perk is added straight so once you have 150 in skills/perks you will never find an item lower than that. -->
<lootqualitytemplates>
<lootqualitytemplate name="baseTemplate">
	<qualitytemplate level="0,0.16" default_quality="1,100">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,100" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.16,0.32" default_quality="101,200">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,200" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.32,0.48" default_quality="201,300">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.48,0.64" default_quality="301,400">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.03"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".10"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.75"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.64,0.80" default_quality="401,500">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.5"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.80,1" default_quality="501,600">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.10"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.4"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplates>

 

Now, I *know* that's at least slightly wrong since I've seen items <150 even with max Quality Joe and Scavenging...but I don't know if that's a bug with QJ/Scavenging or with the base "code" (note: that's technically not actual code -- code would be clearer and easier to read).

 

 

 

Not at all. I buy up to 90 Scavenging and 3/3 Quality Joe. Leave the last 10 points for XP gain since they're worth the most anyway and make like a 3 point difference in quality.

 

 

 

I wouldn't even be worried about it if A14 hadn't massively nerfed loot progression compared to A13. And as that loot table shows there are major breakpoints at specific character levels. Level 97-101 isn't that bad -- but hitting the level 129 breakpoint is painful. I really don't want to be throwing away easily gained XP earlier on.

 

To be clear: I don't like that this is the new model. I don't like that you're effectively punished for scavenging early on with horrendously crappy loot until you hit level 97. And get bonuses (as far as I can tell) to finding stuff like Calipers at level 51 and 101. It really encourages just grinding XP/base building for the first week or two and then scavenging like crazy -- and trying to mix up the two makes you worse off.

 

Unfortunately, it's not my math -- it's the developer's math.

 

<!-- This generates items with Quality Levels based on the player's level and skills / perks. -->
<!-- Level is the percentage to Max Level for the player. Max level is found in progression.xml -->
<!-- The list is worked from the top. If you get a hit, the associated QL is generated. -->
<!-- If there is no hit the default quality is used. -->
<!-- AFTER you have a QL, the QL of your scavenging skill / perk is added straight so once you have 150 in skills/perks you will never find an item lower than that. -->
<lootqualitytemplates>
<lootqualitytemplate name="baseTemplate">
	<qualitytemplate level="0,0.16" default_quality="1,100">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,100" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.16,0.32" default_quality="101,200">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,200" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.32,0.48" default_quality="201,300">
		<loot quality="301,600" prob="0.01"/>
		<loot quality="201,300" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="101,200" prob="0.15"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="1"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.48,0.64" default_quality="301,400">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.03"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".10"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.75"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.64,0.80" default_quality="401,500">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.05"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.5"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
	<qualitytemplate level="0.80,1" default_quality="501,600">
		<loot quality="501,600" prob="0.10"/>
		<loot quality="401,500" prob=".25"/>
		<loot quality="301,400" prob="0.25"/>
		<loot quality="1,300" prob="0.4"/>
	</qualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplate>
</lootqualitytemplates>

 

Now, I *know* that's at least slightly wrong since I've seen items <150 even with max Quality Joe and Scavenging...but I don't know if that's a bug with QJ/Scavenging or with the base "code" (note: that's technically not actual code -- code would be clearer and easier to read).

 

 

 

Not at all. I buy up to 90 Scavenging and 3/3 Quality Joe. Leave the last 10 points for XP gain since they're worth the most anyway and make like a 3 point difference in quality.

 

I am probably the alien player of the group, but I don't Min/Max anything. I will take the bottom rung of a ladder and knock out the stairs though....(so maybe I am a little hypocritical) I let all my skills progress naturally and save my points. I wish they never put in the Scavanging/QJ skill ups. I completely unbalances the game in my opinion and makes my game less fun. Takes away the struggle somewhat. Looking at that code...and figuring out percentages and whatnot takes away the fun/immersion of the game to me. I'm not judging...Just my preference.

 

On subject though - Day one for me is looking for a POI to have a simple safe point. Ideally is on the roof of one of the resource buildings (Working stiffs etc.). You will find that this will be a good place for a while. As a matter of fact, the roof of any building - as long as the weather is ok - is perfect at any point in the game. I wish they would make roof tops less easy to get to to be honest.

 

Day 2-5 is scouting out for a more permanent base location and building up a simple tower of cobblestone with spikes. This is enough to handle the Day 7 horde.

 

Day 8+ is looking for other locations to build other simple towers that are close to looting areas. These will be used as fall back positions and a safe place until the town is looted.

 

On or around day 20-30 - some form a mega stronghold will be built central to all the exploration that has been done. This is the place where forging and storage take place. It is also the place were any 'last stands' take place during horde nights.

 

Again....thank you Mr. Peach for opening this thread of thought.

[Balkoth]

Looking at that code...and figuring out percentages and whatnot takes away the fun/immersion of the game to me.

 

Playing "naturally" and never finding stuff like Calipers and getting awful items indefinitely takes away the fun/immersion of the game to me. Why the hell is this air-dropped military grade Sniper Rifle at 150ish quality? It literally can't hit a zombie like 30 meters away on a body shot (I'm not making this up, this actually happened). Thus I find there are two basic solutions:

 

1, play the game as it actually is, which is what I'm doing

 

2, try to change the game so it allows you to play naturally without punishing you. Which I also advocate and would like to see the game changed to be more in line with your playstyle

[Epicurius]

Playing "naturally" and never finding stuff like Calipers and getting awful items indefinitely takes away the fun/immersion of the game to me. Why the hell is this air-dropped military grade Sniper Rifle at 150ish quality? It literally can't hit a zombie like 30 meters away on a body shot (I'm not making this up, this actually happened). Thus I find there are two basic solutions:

 

1, play the game as it actually is, which is what I'm doing

 

2, try to change the game so it allows you to play naturally without punishing you. Which I also advocate and would like to see the game changed to be more in line with your playstyle

 

Great points! Yeah....there are some things in the game that don't make a bunch of sense when you try to compare reality to it.

[Clism]

just wanted to mention the "hidden" items often under the floors of "starter" houses, the really ratty houses. Look at the metal plates in the floor. One will have a small space between the metal and the wood floor, and through that crack you can see a backpack or a purse.

 

I like hidden, secret, special things you can find. Having more of that would add to the mid to end game. Many rare items, events, even a rare animal (escaped zebra from the zoo?) or a rare type of zed would be a lot of fun.

[argeos]

We usually wander around until finding a spot looking like:

 

- big lake next to a pine forest. Lake deep enough so if the zeds are on the bottom, they cannot touch your feet while swimming

 

We set up our base on the lake's shore. Zeds will mostly come from 1-2 directions, quite never from the waterside

 

At some distance in the lake, we lay the bottom with wooden spikes. If we have to "escape", we simply swim into the lake, standing over our wooden spikes where zeds/dogs will come and die; or we can shoot them from above

 

In any case, quickly surround your initial base with 2-3 layers of wooden spikes. Set up your forge outside the main base

 

Then just explore, and target your "trips" (only books, only some resources, and so on) knowing where to look

[Umbario]

Great points! Yeah....there are some things in the game that don't make a bunch of sense when you try to compare reality to it.

 

Whats wrong with you? You compaire pixels with real life?

[Balkoth]

Great points! Yeah....there are some things in the game that don't make a bunch of sense when you try to compare reality to it.

 

I think it's important to note that we're really talking about two categories here:

 

1, stuff that's not realistic but we accept it for the sake of gameplay. Like, a deer has enough meat for a day's worth of food. An entire. Freaking. Deer. On the flip side, we can skin it in like 10 seconds. An entire. Freaking. Deer. Or how about the fact we can carry thousands of cubic meters of Concrete in our backpack? You get the drift.

 

2, stuff that's not realistic and seems to promote bad gameplay. Player A is a master scavenger. He roams the wastelands, picking through households, looting shops, looking for the best stuff to help him survive. Player B is a master builder. He gathers materials, mines underground, and builds a fortress to withstand the zombie onslaught. Then he goes to loot a nearby home or two and constantly scavenges stuff that's 2-3 times better than what player A finds.

 

Because...

 

...zombie magic?

 

Beats me.

[Gazz]

I use flagstone a lot to make flat defensive skirts around my bunkers, under spikes. I hate how dirt is lumpy and grows grass where I want to place spike fields, so I just make a bunch of flagstone and replace the ground layer with it. Then spikes can go in on top.

If you have dirt lieing around, sod also makes a good and cheap "ground cover" that zombie cops don't turn into swiss cheese quickly.

And it can be repaired.

 

Not an amazing fortress material but I did actually use it to "fortify" the ground around my first base... a little. =)

[Clism]

The large pits still exist here and there, and you can expand one easily. Build a tower on stilts in the bottom of the pit with at least 3 or 4 spaces around it from the walls of the pits. Fill the bottom of the pit and around the top edges with spikes. Sit in your tower and watch the zombies come and fall in your pit and die on the stakes. Cops won't vomit at you if they can't see you.

[Zor_The_Cruel]

the hardest skill for me to resist spending points on to level up is tool smithing.(after scavenging, which I stopped resisting. I pay to lvl to 60 with level 3 Quality Joe once i have the bare essential perks maxed. scavenging takes way too long to level up on its own) I hate making tons of a tool that doesnt stack and constantly scrapping the results for tiny skill up gains. the fastest way? make anvils in the forge. (you have to stay in the forge screen and watch them get made, or you dont get exp from it) It still doesnt stack, but the skill up gains are huge for tool smithing with it. Also, if you dont have tons of feathers to actually make arrows, crafting iron or steel arrowheads in the forge and keeping the forge window open is a great way to keep leveling weapon smithing skill.

 

PS- my bare essentials perks? Run forrest run, quick crafting, and miner 49'er(I dont spend directly on mining skill. I mine a lot so it goes up pretty fast on its own for me.) Running perk is self-explanatory. Quick crafting is the sneaky one. Since crafting things to level up skills is the fastest way to level your player, it translates to faster leveling. You've got nothing better to do but craft at night, right?

[Balkoth]

the fastest way? make anvils in the forge. (you have to stay in the forge screen and watch them get made, or you dont get exp from it) It still doesnt stack, but the skill up gains are huge for tool smithing with it. Also, if you dont have tons of feathers to actually make arrows, crafting iron or steel arrowheads in the forge and keeping the forge window open is a great way to keep leveling weapon smithing skill.

 

+1 to both.

 

(Yes, I mentioned both in my earlier post, but it's worth repeating and emphasizing).

 

PS- my bare essentials perks? Run forrest run, quick crafting, and miner 49'er(I dont spend directly on mining skill. I mine a lot so it goes up pretty fast on its own for me.) Running perk is self-explanatory. Quick crafting is the sneaky one. Since crafting things to level up skills is the fastest way to level your player, it translates to faster leveling. You've got nothing better to do but craft at night, right?

 

Indeed. Kind of slapping myself on the head for not including them in my post. Figured it was obvious but, in retrospect, I remember having to convince a friend that Quicker Crafting was really, really good.

[Fyrdrinc]

If you have dirt lieing around...

 

Possibly the only other person on these forums aside from myself who admits to using sod...

 

My problem with sod vs flagstone comes from an efficiency standpoint. With a level 1 stone shovel, it takes something like 9-10 hits to get 1 unit of Fertile Dirt. For those same 9-10 hits on Clay, I can get 20+ Clay Lumps. Plant fibers are plentiful, but so are small stones. So for the same amount of "work" I can get 1 sod block or 6+ Flagstone blocks. Given that Flagstone is far more durable than Sod, it just makes much better sense to use it.

 

Sod has always had this liability, which makes its use rare. It is simply less efficient to make a block of Sod than it is to make ANY other material, including a wood block, and it has no more durability than that wood block. Its only perks are that it is obscenely cheap to repair and that it lays down like "natural" tiles do rather than how "artificial" tiles do.

[Mr_PeaCH]

I'm formulating an idea; gathering information about the various skills as they work now; which are easiest to raise either through normal use or modest 'grinding' and which are hardest to raise even through devoted grinding. Beyond that they should probably also be rated for usefulness.

 

May need to take this to another thread but help me get started here please:

 

In my opinion then...

 

QUICK SKILLS

 

Athletics

Contstruction Tools

Gun Smithing

Mining Tools

Misc. Crafting

Weapon Smithing

 

 

SLOW SKILLS

Armors (Smithing, Heavy, Light)

Leatherworking

Science

Tool Smithing

Scavenging?

 

 

I sort of hesitate to put Scavenging in with slow - it's really that it's so advantageous to get it up to a high level for its own sake and for Quality Joe perks. No matter how much 'natural' scavenging you do it seems like it comes pretty slowly. Myself, I make it a priority to put points into so I can start finding better look faster.

 

There are others that I'm leaving out; if you feel they are important please bring them up. And I'm talking about 'Skills' specifically and not the 'Perks'.

 

With regard to the information upthread about how by earning skills you gain XP and how by purchasing the skills you only gain the skill benefit and are robbing yourself of the XP - what would you say of the SLOW skills are so worth having that it's more acceptable to buy skill points (or gain skill by reading schematics)? And do you feel like I do (am starting to feel) that if a skill already gets QUICK gains through normal play and/or modest amounts of grinding one is advised NOT to read schematics for additional times just for the skill point - denying self the XP from the normal gain.

 

Hope that makes sense. :-) I'd like to come up with an informed consensus and add it to my 'cheatsheet' of game information. Currently the cheatsheet is most useful for tracking weapon parts that have been found and often stashed around the map and keeping track of the books and schematics already found. If anyone would like a look at the current form I'll link it here. Also play my 7DTD Bingo game! Taking suggestions for that as well.

 

7DTD Cheatsheet