Screamer question

[Old Crow]

Am I insane, or isn't there supposed to be a "cooldown" of sorts between Screamers? My friend's server is set to 2 hour days, and we had a pair of Screamers show up and call friends because we were using our workbenches. Normal, expected. After finishing off the mini-horde and their HOA mistresses, about 5 real-time minutes of complete silence later, we spot a new Screamer running up to tell us our stereo was too loud and that we needed to trim our rose bushes.

 

Isn't there supposed to be a longer cooldown between Screamers appearing? Or was I imagining this?

[Rooster Gold]

I believe its supposed to be 15min now, but can spawn more than 1, it was 5 in past alphas but only one at a time.

[Riamus]

One of the devs stated it was something like 21 minutes in the same area.  If it's less time (check your log, which will show the times they showed up, to make sure), report it as a bug and include the log.

[AudioCraZ]

Screamers are absolutle @%$# in 7D2D. Flat out bad. Day 1, get two screamers that summon two more screamers. While we are fighting with rank 1 clubs and pipe weapons. Seriously, WHY ARE SCREAMERS SHOWING UP ON DAY 1?!?! This is not challenge, this is just lazy game design. I am sick and tired of just getting going  to build somethign just to get steamrolled and lose everything (and die multiple times) to the Screamer Steam Roll ON DAY ONE.  Give admins the ability to adjust screamers in the server config. There should be no screamers on day one, if there is, ONE and they can't summon more screamers.  Last map, on day 2 we got 2 Screamers that summoned 2 screamers that summoned 2 more screamers. What is worse, they are massivly overpowered in starting game, but are far too easy in mid to end game. They have absolutly no balance, and really make no sense. I get the idea of them, but they are badly implemented.

 

And I have tried to use screamer mods on my dedicated server, but they tend to cause server crashing. 

[ElCabong]

Get rid of the screamers that everybody hates and bring back the hornets with their nests that everybody liked.

[Riamus]

47 minutes ago, AudioCraZ said:

Screamers are absolutle @%$# in 7D2D. Flat out bad. Day 1, get two screamers that summon two more screamers. While we are fighting with rank 1 clubs and pipe weapons. Seriously, WHY ARE SCREAMERS SHOWING UP ON DAY 1?!?! This is not challenge, this is just lazy game design. I am sick and tired of just getting going  to build somethign just to get steamrolled and lose everything (and die multiple times) to the Screamer Steam Roll ON DAY ONE.  Give admins the ability to adjust screamers in the server config. There should be no screamers on day one, if there is, ONE and they can't summon more screamers.  Last map, on day 2 we got 2 Screamers that summoned 2 screamers that summoned 2 more screamers. What is worse, they are massivly overpowered in starting game, but are far too easy in mid to end game. They have absolutly no balance, and really make no sense. I get the idea of them, but they are badly implemented.

 

And I have tried to use screamer mods on my dedicated server, but they tend to cause server crashing. 

It would be challenging to ramp up heat on day 1 to get screamers unless you are going crazy with campfires.  You don't have guns and no forge, workbench, center mixer, chem station.  And although I didn't look, I have a feeling they are locked by game stage.  So I think if you really have that experience, it is a bug.  Report it with a log and they can look into it.

[Vaeliorin]

36 minutes ago, Riamus said:

It would be challenging to ramp up heat on day 1 to get screamers unless you are going crazy with campfires.  You don't have guns and no forge, workbench, center mixer, chem station.  And although I didn't look, I have a feeling they are locked by game stage.  So I think if you really have that experience, it is a bug.  Report it with a log and they can look into it.

If you do enough building on day 1, it's certainly possible (especially if you play with 2 hour days.)  When I play "Base Day 1" games, I've once or twice (back in A21 and before) gotten a screamer on day 1 from all the chopping/digging/building I was doing, but that was literally spending all day in 1 spot, essentially (having to venture out a little bit to get more trees.)

[Riamus]

Well, I didn't say it was impossible, but challenging.  A normal player isn't likely to be doing a ton of building on day 1 and is likely to spend part of the day looking for food (eggs), doing initial quests, finding a good spot to have a base, maybe doing a quest or two, etc.  And mining and tree cutting are often not in the same area, so heat is split between them.  I think most people aren't going to do significant mining or tree cutting in the first day anyhow because they'll want better tools first... at least a few quality levels instead of Q1, though that's just my assumption.

 

I think that in a case where a player is doing something unusual compared to the normal way of playing, it isn't unexpected to see unusual results such as screamers.  That isn't necessarily something the game needs to account for.  There are far too many factors that come into play that can impact how the game plays just based on how an individual chooses to play the game.  Some end up being beneficial and some are detrimental.  But trying to account for every possible result of every possible way people play the game is a bit too much to ask for, imo.  Expect that if you play noticeably different from what is expected that you'll get unexpected results and just adjust your gameplay to account for those results.  In the case of screamers on day 1, if that happens, then just be sure you're putting up spikes around the area where you're working.  If you're doing that much building, it shouldn't be difficult to do that.

 

Though, unless it has changed in 1.1, I've done a ton of building with 2 players doing it at once in 1.0 and it took until after the first horde night on 2 hour days before I saw any screamers.  We weren't mining or cutting trees at the base, though.  Maybe that is why we didn't see any.  Heat was spread out in areas for mining, tree cutting, and base building (we built a base that was about the size of the land claim).

[Vaeliorin]

Yeah, I'm not saying it's common, just that it isn't necessarily a bug.  Like I said, I've only seen it when doing a playstyle where I had to have a base built by night on Day 1, and have to live there the rest of the playthrough without tearing anything down.

[AudioCraZ]

14 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:

Yeah, I'm not saying it's common, just that it isn't necessarily a bug.  Like I said, I've only seen it when doing a playstyle where I had to have a base built by night on Day 1, and have to live there the rest of the playthrough without tearing anything down.

 

No major base, but a cooking station that we placed on top of a billboard with some crates for storage. We had been out doing quests and clearing for gear, but definetly moving around.  some had even mapped out other biomes. Lots of moving around. We just happen to be back at the base around 1900 hours and of course 2 Screamers... then they summoned more screamers. Little ammo and T1 clubs meant we died a lot and they destroyed the billboard. 

 

Everything in the game is pretty badly buggy, and much of those bugs have their charm. But the scremers are just BAD. A halfed assed idea that was slapped together badly and are game breaking buggy. My favorite is the bug where you never hear a scream (even though you are whacking her with a club) but here comes the mob... I think the idea of them is great, but at this point they have slapped so many bandaids on the code that the Screamer need to be scrapped and redone. Maybe they can fix things, but it seems every update from the past year or so they just keep getting worse.  I attempted to run that mod that supposed to return the Scramers back to A21, but that mod would crash my dedicated server after about 6 hours or so. 

 

It would be nice if there were some options for the Screamers (as they are game breaking) to allow adjustment. "ScreamerSpawnDay" specifiying what day they can start spawning. "ScreamerSpawnNumber" specifying how many screamers can spawn at a given time. The Screamer Steam Roll can be fun after you have built up for it. Then there is at least a chance of survival... Mid game getting screamer rushes while you are in a quest POI... that can get fun. 

 

The last map we ran 3 of us were in a quest POI, and all the sudden we hear screamers go off... We were on Day 2 at this point. We finished off the zombies inside (we were still with clubs and pipe weapons) and sure enough, double Screamers with a bunch of other zombies they summoned pounding on the walls of the POI house. We go outside and notice the second set of Screamers... We would die, fail the quest, run back and try to clear some more, then die some more. They summoned two more Screamers. Day two and dealing with the Screamer Steam Roll. Each of us died 5 or so times trying to clear everything and get our stuff back. There is a point where somehting is "challenging" and there is a point where something is broken and just @%$#ing bad. 

 

From what I have seen, it is EXTREAMLY rare to see 1 Screamer. From what I can tell, it is a 80% to 90% chance of Double Screamers. 

[Shame]

I wish there was at least a little more variety to what challenges you could face due to generating heat. But it is just always screamers or a pitstop horde. But mostly screamers.

[Riamus]

6 hours ago, Shame said:

I wish there was at least a little more variety to what challenges you could face due to generating heat. But it is just always screamers or a pitstop horde. But mostly screamers.

Screamers are the only "scout" unit that will specifically come due to heat.  I do agree that some variation of what comes would make things more interesting, though something that can't summon more zombies would be very simple to deal with.  Maybe instead of heat bringing one or two zombies (screamers currently), it could also possibly being a wandering horde directly to the heat location.

[Old Crow]

11 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Screamers are the only "scout" unit that will specifically come due to heat.  I do agree that some variation of what comes would make things more interesting, though something that can't summon more zombies would be very simple to deal with.  Maybe instead of heat bringing one or two zombies (screamers currently), it could also possibly being a wandering horde directly to the heat location.

 

It seems really inconsistent too. I can go nuts mining with an auger quite a while, standing up, and not get a single screamer. Do some cooking or run a single forge? Here come the undead HOA.

[Riamus]

14 minutes ago, Old Crow said:

 

It seems really inconsistent too. I can go nuts mining with an auger quite a while, standing up, and not get a single screamer. Do some cooking or run a single forge? Here come the undead HOA.

It is RNG, so you will get various behavior.  There is only a chance to spawn them when heat hits 25%.  It is like things in the game that you might find right away one game and not find until day 50 in the next.  😀

[8_Hussars]

On 10/4/2024 at 9:15 PM, Old Crow said:

Am I insane, or isn't there supposed to be a "cooldown" of sorts between Screamers? My friend's server is set to 2 hour days, and we had a pair of Screamers show up and call friends because we were using our workbenches. Normal, expected. After finishing off the mini-horde and their HOA mistresses, about 5 real-time minutes of complete silence later, we spot a new Screamer running up to tell us our stereo was too loud and that we needed to trim our rose bushes.

 

Isn't there supposed to be a longer cooldown between Screamers appearing? Or was I imagining this?

Just speculation.

Perhaps RNG triggered a Screamer Set at 25% heat.  Then the chunk rolled over to 100% heat for another Screamer Set.

Maybe the DEV reported cool down only applies to the 100% screamer chance trigger point?

Maybe the screamer fight took longer than remembered or a lot of extra heat was generated during the fight...

[theFlu]

25 minutes ago, 8_Hussars said:

Perhaps RNG triggered a Screamer Set at 25% heat.  Then the chunk rolled over to 100% heat for another Screamer Set.

On the heat UI (dm,  F8, F8), the heat events were cleared at 25, whether or not I had a screamer spawn. It showed a cooldown counter instead. So, while still possible, if the UI is accurate, it shouldn't go past 25 in any case.

[spud42]

just cooking on day 1 will brin the damn screamers. just watched Jawoodle's baton challenge and with cooking and a forge he got 3 or 4 screamers before 4am day 2.....

is there any way in xml to turn them off or change the heat trigger point to be 1,000,000 so they never trigger?

 

[8_Hussars]

14 minutes ago, theFlu said:

On the heat UI (dm,  F8, F8), the heat events were cleared at 25, whether or not I had a screamer spawn. It showed a cooldown counter instead. So, while still possible, if the UI is accurate, it shouldn't go past 25 in any case.

Ok, that indicates the heat counter was reset after the screamers were rolled at 25%.

The counter should move past 25 on its way to 100, if the screamer horde is not rolled at 25%.

[8_Hussars]

4 minutes ago, spud42 said:

just cooking on day 1 will brin the damn screamers. just watched Jawoodle's baton challenge and with cooking and a forge he got 3 or 4 screamers before 4am day 2.....

is there any way in xml to turn them off or change the heat trigger point to be 1,000,000 so they never trigger?

 

IIRC, Josh received one set of two screamers which appeared near 4 AM (sometimes its hard to tell with the "entertainment" factor and editing).  Note the workstations ran overnight and Josh destroyed at least 4 metal blocks to get his campfire and storage installed.

A Campfire generates 5 heat for every in-game hour, a Forge 6 heat for every in game hour, and metal blocks 1.42 for each block.  So in a mere 2 in-game hours, the campfire, the forge, and four+ metal blocks provided 27.68 heat to the chunk.  This obviously would bring the heat level above the 25% threshold and trigger a RNG roll for the screamers.
 
IMHO, nothing out of the ordinary in this instance.

I am pretty sure there are mods to turn off the screamers already.

[zombiehunter]

On 10/5/2024 at 7:12 PM, Riamus said:

Well, I didn't say it was impossible, but challenging.  A normal player isn't likely to be doing a ton of building on day 1 and is likely to spend part of the day looking for food (eggs), doing initial quests, finding a good spot to have a base, maybe doing a quest or two, etc.  And mining and tree cutting are often not in the same area, so heat is split between them.  I think most people aren't going to do significant mining or tree cutting in the first day anyhow because they'll want better tools first... at least a few quality levels instead of Q1, though that's just my assumption.

 

I think that in a case where a player is doing something unusual compared to the normal way of playing, it isn't unexpected to see unusual results such as screamers.  That isn't necessarily something the game needs to account for.  There are far too many factors that come into play that can impact how the game plays just based on how an individual chooses to play the game.  Some end up being beneficial and some are detrimental.  But trying to account for every possible result of every possible way people play the game is a bit too much to ask for, imo.  Expect that if you play noticeably different from what is expected that you'll get unexpected results and just adjust your gameplay to account for those results.  In the case of screamers on day 1, if that happens, then just be sure you're putting up spikes around the area where you're working.  If you're doing that much building, it shouldn't be difficult to do that.

 

Though, unless it has changed in 1.1, I've done a ton of building with 2 players doing it at once in 1.0 and it took until after the first horde night on 2 hour days before I saw any screamers.  We weren't mining or cutting trees at the base, though.  Maybe that is why we didn't see any.  Heat was spread out in areas for mining, tree cutting, and base building (we built a base that was about the size of the land claim).

I've had screamers (3) show up when the only thing I had running was two dew collectors, and I was not doing any building/scrapping, or anything.  So that doesn't seem all too challenging.  Granted, that has only happened once, so it doesn't seem too common, but overall, in my opinion, the screamer mechanic needs to change.

[Riamus]

9 minutes ago, zombiehunter said:

I've had screamers (3) show up when the only thing I had running was two dew collectors, and I was not doing any building/scrapping, or anything.  So that doesn't seem all too challenging.  Granted, that has only happened once, so it doesn't seem too common, but overall, in my opinion, the screamer mechanic needs to change.

You had 2 dew collectors running on day 1?

[GigglingZombie]

certainly for me now, i can easily create between 1 to 3 dew collectors very early on; i forget what is needed to be able to get the ability to craft them. but once you can, i am able to as i mass-collect polymers from everywhere, not just tyres on the ground but the squished plastic on the ground too, they're extremely plentiful; - i don't recall seeing any of the main youtube content creators every harvest the squished plastic so maybe it's not a well-known thing

 

p.s. i rarely bother with the 3 mods that you install in the new dew collectors, to me there's just no point, murky water for me is fine, i just boil any on a campfire as soon as i have any. plus a great trick i now employ is to put a campfire on a storage box when out raiding, so i can boil any murkies out-and-about, if i'm far from home and lacking drinkable water/tea's

Edited October 17 by GigglingZombie (see edit history)

[Old Crow]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

You had 2 dew collectors running on day 1?

 

You know they're ridiculously easy to craft, right?

[Riamus]

Just wondering why someone would.

[Uncle Al]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Just wondering why someone would.

 

Having effectively unlimited water access solves your food supply too, early game, as things like grilled corn become usable as a main food source. 

 

Lootable water also become incredibly unreliably if you play with a loot setting lower than 100%.