V1.1 b4 EXP

[Arez]

27 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

what i would like to know is... What pve player thought it would be a good idea to have one option on spawn death?

I haven't put a bedroll down in a long time so I don't know if there have been any changes, but wouldn't there be an option to spawn on your bedroll if one was put down?

 

And another thing - making games sucks. One simple change can break 3 other things. Once you think you're out...it pulls you back in. So I could never pretend to know what's going to be an easy fix and a pain-in-the-tuchus fix. And I wouldn't be surprised if even seasoned developers wouldn't know what's going to be more of a headache than not.

 

So to think other less consequential fixes should be ignored for more important things assumes that all fixes are equal. Fixing the paint could've taken 10 seconds while fixing the death loop could take a week. So even if they ignored the paint, it still wouldn't get the death loop fixed any quicker.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Minion said:

what i would like to know is... What pve player thought it would be a good idea to have one option on spawn death? The death loop is a real problem and issue for pvp servers because--- if a player kills another player that person spawns within earshot of the killer..... After the person gets killed because of this it can cause him/her to go into this loop which can lock them out of game. Very nasty bug that needs fixed for sure. OF COURSE IF YOU DONT PLAY PVP ODDS ARE YOU WOULDN'T ENCOUNTER THE PROBLEM THAT OFTEN. but yeah those pve players are loving life only having to go 50m to a backpack after death........

 

Just a question... if this is an issue, why aren't players placing a bedroll somewhere so they have an option to spawn near that instead of only at their backpack?  It sounds like they just don't want to run far to their backpack and so are paying the consequences of that choice.

Edited August 13 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Mando]

3 minutes ago, Riamus said:

Just a question... if this is an issue, why aren't players placing a bedroll somewhere so they have an option to spawn near that instead of only at their backpack?  It sounds like they just don't want to run far to their backpack and so are paying the consequences of that choice.

He just made a point about the PvP situation which isn't the biggest problem here. 

The big problem here is the deathloop issue and second is when you die without a place to spawn bedroll or backpack you will spawn where you died. For PvP that open the doors for headaches, like spawn camping, or even servers like mine that the raid is allowed players sometimes abuse of this bug with have almost nothing with them and when they die, they will spawn inside of the enemies base, but I have rules for that, anyone that does that during raid will get punished, which isn't a problem, but during combat it's very very weird. 

Ideally when you die and have nowhere to spawn it should take you to the map spawn points like it was on alpha version.


I'm only being vocal because this game isn't an alpha version anymore and I'm saying what needs to be said, if you all understood what I mentioned in a rude way, well... I am just a server owner/player frustrated with this current situation and I'm doing my part in reporting them and being quite vocal about it because before things goes into @%$#. 

I love the game, I love what they have done with 1.0, but those two bugs are the worse and nobody knows what has been done about it.
 

[Suxar]

7 hours ago, Adam the Waster said:

Inflation (Increase or decrease cost) 

 

No use. For a single-player game there are only unnecessary problems, the elements are already very expensive and are extremely rarely sold, and besides them you can’t buy anything else in the second week. It’s useless for PvE, no one buys anything from merchants there anyway, there are players’ machines where you can buy cheaper and more regularly.

This is unnecessary.

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, Suxar said:

No use. For a single-player game there are only unnecessary problems, the elements are already very expensive and are extremely rarely sold, and besides them you can’t buy anything else in the second week. It’s useless for PvE, no one buys anything from merchants there anyway, there are players’ machines where you can buy cheaper and more regularly.

This is unnecessary.

 

Huh? "In PvE nobody buys anything from merchants"? I can easily show this is wrong, because I buy in SP and my group buys in MP co-op PvE from the trader, even in the second week and later. You may be right about open (PvE/PvP) servers, but there are a lot of players not playing on those servers who might benefit from trader balance changes.

 

[Suxar]

14 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

А? "В PvE никто ничего не покупает у торговцев"? Я могу легко показать, что это неправильно, потому что я покупаю в SP, а моя группа покупает в MP кооперативном PvE у торговца, даже на второй неделе и позже. Вы можете быть правы насчет открытых (PvE/PvP) серверов, но есть много игроков, которые не играют на этих серверах, но им могут быть полезны изменения баланса торговца.

 

Everyone has their own playing style, of course. But somewhere after the second week, I buy only 5 things from traders: 3 modifications for a dew collector, a solar battery and a solar cell. If this could be found somewhere else, I probably wouldn’t buy anything.

 

I mainly need brass from the merchant. A stack of scrap contains 6000, and a stack of dukes contains 20000. Which is more convenient for storage.

[meganoth]

5 hours ago, Mando said:

He just made a point about the PvP situation which isn't the biggest problem here. 

The big problem here is the deathloop issue and second is when you die without a place to spawn bedroll or backpack you will spawn where you died. For PvP that open the doors for headaches, like spawn camping, or even servers like mine that the raid is allowed players sometimes abuse of this bug with have almost nothing with them and when they die, they will spawn inside of the enemies base, but I have rules for that, anyone that does that during raid will get punished, which isn't a problem, but during combat it's very very weird. 

Ideally when you die and have nowhere to spawn it should take you to the map spawn points like it was on alpha version.


I'm only being vocal because this game isn't an alpha version anymore and I'm saying what needs to be said, if you all understood what I mentioned in a rude way, well... I am just a server owner/player frustrated with this current situation and I'm doing my part in reporting them and being quite vocal about it because before things goes into @%$#. 

I love the game, I love what they have done with 1.0, but those two bugs are the worse and nobody knows what has been done about it.
 

 

Granted, but you still didn't answer the question: Why not place a bedroll? Sure, this doesn't help someone already in a death loop. But now the problem is known and we all know it takes weeks between patches and TFP may still have problems recreating/finding the bug. And changing the UI is usually easier said than done, they need a lot of testing time for that. So why not use the workaround?

 

PS: One of your bugs is confirmed which is a good sign. The other, the deathloop is not. This could mean they are still trying to recreate that bug.  One thing missing on that bug report is a complete vanilla logfile. It is NOT that they don't like mods, or open servers. But mods invariably change the logfile so they never can be sure if something unusual points to the bug or just the mod. And only one or more complete logfile gives them all the information.

 

Maybe you know this already: Fixing a bug is a two step process. QA people try to recreate the bug, then a developer tries to fix the bug he now sees before him because he knows how the bug can be triggered on some test machine.

 

So if you see or find anyone saying they have that bug in vanilla, get him to post a complete logfile. Or try to recreate the bug in a vanilla server where the complete logfile can be posted. If they can't recreate that bug the bug report will just sit there while the developers fix bugs that could be recreated.

 

 

[II Blittz II]

On 8/8/2024 at 5:39 AM, schwanz9000 said:

 

 

 

1. Consoles do not get experimental releases.
2. We don't expect to see any game breaking issues with old save games, but we always recommend starting a new game. Not only for various bugs that "may" occur, but for the benefit of new or updated content such as art, POI's, and/or RWG algorithm updates.
3. We are working to push more bug fixes into V1.1 to address console specific issues.
4. As of this writing, V1.1 is NOT scheduled to have crossplay or RWG on consoles.
   
   Stay tuned for more.

Thanks, schwanz! 😀

[Grandpa Minion]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

Just a question... if this is an issue, why aren't players placing a bedroll somewhere so they have an option to spawn near that instead of only at their backpack?  It sounds like they just don't want to run far to their backpack and so are paying the consequences of that choice.

in pvp players well destroy players bedroll.... Even with a bedroll down same thing can easily happen ......

Edited August 13 by Grandpa Minion (see edit history)

[Mando]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

 

Granted, but you still didn't answer the question: Why not place a bedroll? Sure, this doesn't help someone already in a death loop. But now the problem is known and we all know it takes weeks between patches and TFP may still have problems recreating/finding the bug. And changing the UI is usually easier said than done, they need a lot of testing time for that. So why not use the workaround?

 

PS: One of your bugs is confirmed which is a good sign. The other, the deathloop is not. This could mean they are still trying to recreate that bug.  One thing missing on that bug report is a complete vanilla logfile. It is NOT that they don't like mods, or open servers. But mods invariably change the logfile so they never can be sure if something unusual points to the bug or just the mod. And only one or more complete logfile gives them all the information.

 

Maybe you know this already: Fixing a bug is a two step process. QA people try to recreate the bug, then a developer tries to fix the bug he now sees before him because he knows how the bug can be triggered on some test machine.

 

So if you see or find anyone saying they have that bug in vanilla, get him to post a complete logfile. Or try to recreate the bug in a vanilla server where the complete logfile can be posted. If they can't recreate that bug the bug report will just sit there while the developers fix bugs that could be recreated.

 

 

First, it's a PvP, someone will find the bedroll and break it. Second, even spawning in your bedroll the issue happens  So... nothing else to say

 

5 minutes ago, Mando said:

First, it's a PvP, someone will find the bedroll and break it. Second, even spawning in your bedroll the issue happens  So... nothing else to say

 

I already tried full vanilla, the same thing happens with or without mods in exactly the same way as I mentioned in game and logs.

[meganoth]

24 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

in pvp players well destroy players bedroll

 

22 minutes ago, Mando said:

First, it's a PvP, someone will find the bedroll and break it. Second, even spawning in your bedroll the issue happens  So... nothing else to say

 

Thanks. the info that the bug happens even with bedroll was missing or I simply overlooked it. Needless to say, mentioning stuff like this in the bug report can help, any detail really.

 

The other reason I don't understand: Someone finds the bedroll, the player sees his home icon vanishing (ideally) and puts a new bedroll down somewhere else. That your stuff gets found and broken is after all part of PvP. It would be different if your bedroll could be sensed somehow by other players, but assuming this isn't the case I see no downside to putting down a bedroll, for example in a hidden corner of a derelict building.

 

 

Edited August 13 by meganoth (see edit history)

[Grandpa Minion]

10 minutes ago, meganoth said:

 

 

Thanks. the info that the bug happens even with bedroll was missing or I simply overlooked it. Needless to say, mentioning stuff like this in the bug report can help, any detail really.

 

The other reason seems a bit flimsy: Someone finds the bedroll, the player sees his home icon vanishing (ideally) and puts a new bedroll down somewhere else. That your stuff gets found and broken is after all part of PvP. It would be different if your bedroll could be sensed somehow by other players, but assuming this isn't the case I see no downside to putting down a bedroll in a hidden corner of a derelict building.

 

 

when our server was looking into having a mod to fix the issue this is what he told me.

[meganoth]

5 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

when our server was looking into having a mod to fix the issue this is what he told me.

 

Interesting. Everything seems to point to the spawning procedure itself being bugged and creating a toon with a death condition, likely because the condition he died from was not removed.

 

[meganoth]

49 minutes ago, Mando said:

already tried full vanilla, the same thing happens with or without mods in exactly the same way as I mentioned in game and logs.

 

This does not help QA to recreate the bug, this is not about believing or not believing your words. As I explained before, their best bet to recreating the bug is to get their hands on a complete vanilla logfile. Because QA people who have read hundreds of vanilla logfiles will spot irregularities in a vanilla logfile but those irregularities are often hidden under other harmless irregularities a modded logfile produces. And they need a complete logfile because only that gives a complete picture and prerequisites of a bug may be shown **anywhere** in a logfile

 

 

 

 

 

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Grandpa Minion said:

in pvp players well destroy players bedroll.... Even with a bedroll down same thing can easily happen ......

Maybe use a mod that makes bedrolls invulnerable?  Should be possible, I would think.  If nothing else, raise bedroll durability to an extreme amount or something.  Might even just make an invisible block with bedroll properties.  Something like that would solve the problem faster than waiting on TFP to come up with a solution for you.

[Grandpa Minion]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

Maybe use a mod that makes bedrolls invulnerable?  Should be possible, I would think.  If nothing else, raise bedroll durability to an extreme amount or something.  Might even just make an invisible block with bedroll properties.  Something like that would solve the problem faster than waiting on TFP to come up with a solution for you.

ive already stated what the problem is and how it happens, making bedrolls invulnerable does not solve the issue. Think about it for a sec.. if your on a pvp server and someone kills you....you spawn naked.... guess what? you spawn next to the person who is still holding a gun and kills you again... after a couple times of this happening the person who is being killed goes into the death loop,

[Riamus]

11 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

ive already stated what the problem is and how it happens, making bedrolls invulnerable does not solve the issue. Think about it for a sec.. if your on a pvp server and someone kills you....you spawn naked.... guess what? you spawn next to the person who is still holding a gun and kills you again... after a couple times of this happening the person who is being killed goes into the death loop,

If you spawn at a bedroll, then unless the person is camping there, you won't spawn next to them.  And you have the option to spawn "near" the bedroll as well, which should give room enough to escape.  Your statement that people destroy the bedroll, causing people to spawn near where they died would be solved if they can't do that.  I'm just offering options to avoid the problem until TFP does something to resolve it.  Or even just let people keep their stuff on death so they can defend themselves after dying.  But I understand people like losing stuff on death.  Still an option, though.

Edited August 13 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Grandpa Minion]

4 minutes ago, Riamus said:

If you spawn at a bedroll

spawning near a bedroll a players is still in shooting distance of the killer.. odds are he well already have killed you before you fully login.

[Riamus]

3 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

spawning near a bedroll a players is still in shooting distance of the killer.. odds are he well already have killed you before you fully login.

And can those distances be modded?  Like I said, offering suggestions to reduce the problem until TFP can do something.  If you don't want any suggestions, then that is up to you.  It won't speed up how quickly TFP does something. 

 

Honestly, this game is so poorly designed for PVP that I don't know why people bother.  There are so many other options out there that offer better PVP.

[Grandpa Minion]

10 minutes ago, Riamus said:

If you don't want any suggestions

 

honestly, i think the point mando was trying to make about the paint is for years and years pvp players have set in the background on this forum watching as pve players request get filled over and over all while the pvp communitys seems to be brushed a side. 

[Riamus]

15 minutes ago, Grandpa Minion said:

honestly, i think the point mando was trying to make about the paint is for years and years pvp players have set in the background on this forum watching as pve players request get filled over and over all while the pvp communitys seems to be brushed a side. 

To be fair, PVP was kind of tacked on because of requests but really isn't the intended use of the game.  I think most PVP servers use a lot of mods to help make PVP better because of this.  I'm not saying they shouldn't do what they can to help PVP players, but this game won't ever be on par with so many other PVP games out there in terms of PVP.  My suggestions are just ways you can make things at least somewhat better in the short term.

 

If I were on such a server where camping is so bad, I would probably just bury my bedroll a few meters deep where it can't be found and never spawn at my bedroll (just near).  The only way for someone to find where I will spawn is to get lucky and see me spawn, which is low risk.

 

I generally don't do PVP specifically because of campers and similar cheesy PVP tactics.  If players do PVP in a more fair way, then it can be much more fun to me.  Camping spawn points and traders is just cheap and what I would consider smelling someone who is not good at PVP would do just because it is easy and low risk and they get a kick out of being jerks to people.  But that is just me.  Same for high level characters killing low level characters who have no chance to fight back.  No risk and no skill required to do that.

Edited August 13 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Krougal]

On 8/8/2024 at 11:38 AM, DickJustice said:

What is final then? This makes 1.0 meaningless. Why even take it out of early access in the first place if you're recommending players to start up again after not even 20 days? Why play the game at all? It shows little regard for the userbase experience.

 

As an addendum, you can go on to the Steam comments for the news post about the 1.1 update and see what I'm talking about. There's a lot of dissatisfaction. Often with user comments, I feel it's excessively negative and that often people just love to be really loud about very subjective complaints - but this I totally understand getting worked up about. The whole charm of the game is the player progression - going from easily getting overrun by slower groups of 3 zombies versus mastering the apocalypse, and it takes time and it takes a certain amount of healthy grinding, but you get there. Players who started 1.0 Stable thinking they were safe from restarts, what? They should throw 40 hours away without a second thought? What about working on elaborate bases? Extensive resource gathering?

Streaming media has pretty much made terms like final and 1.0 meaningless.

Gaming is starting to lean more towards being software as a service just like everything else.

Yeah, it makes everything feel like perpetual early access, but it is what it is.

 

If you spent 40 hours playing, then yes, you threw away 40 hours without a second thought (yes, this is coming from a guy who throws away thousands of hours a year), that is what recreation boils down to; wasting time in between being productive.

 

This is not an MMO anyway, I mean how many hours do you people spend in the average 7DTD game before you get bored. 40 hours is 40 days, I am already getting bored and thinking about restarting by then.

 

Oh, and good job pimps! I honestly expected to hate 1.0 but I think it is the best update in a long time. Now just get rid of the ChiCom EAC phone home every 5 minutes bull@%$# so I don't have to play in offline mode all the time and we'll be good.

Edited August 13 by Krougal (see edit history)

[Mando]

Once again, read my report. DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU SPAWN, BEDROLL OR NEAR BACKPACK, THE DEATHLOOP WILL HAPPEN. THANKS

[Roland]

4 hours ago, Mando said:

 DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU SPAWN.....THE DEATHLOOP WILL HAPPEN. THANKS

 

This is the truth because the main problem is not with the game. One of your own solutions was to enable fixed spawn points. All that happens then is the death loop continues when players find the spawn points and camp them. This is a player mentality issue. The PvP players on your server have no desire for fairness or sportsmanship. When someone spawns in naked they should be allowed to depart and have time to recover. Any microscopic amount of sportsmanship (or even basic empathy) would prevent players on your server getting their kicks killing naked respawning players over and over and over.

 

As long as you allow players like that on your server they will find a way to camp spawn points no matter where they are. If they can find the bedroll they can find the fixed spawn point if TFP enabled such a thing. Fix your server rules and manage the rule breakers and enforce fair play practices and you'll get way more mileage than relying on new spawning rules because I agree with you 100% --> DOES NOT MATTER WHERE YOU SPAWN....THE DEATHLOOP WILL HAPPEN.

Edited August 14 by Roland (see edit history)

[LEXXIUS]

Just to clarify, do these POI fixes apply to newly generated custom worlds or do they also apply to the pregen worlds when starting a new save?