Did you ever want to know

[pApA^LeGBa]

how many electrical parts can be harvested in the Navezgane General Hospital?

 

It´s 2584. Fully perked into salvage operation with a fully modded Q6 impact driver.

 

And no i wasn´t bored,  The District Zero overhaul mod uses them to craft energy cells for laser weapons.

[meganoth]

Are you sure the mod didn't change the harvest drop chance of electrical parts as well?

 

[Roland]

And you complain that checking dew collectors and looting toilets is boring....

[pApA^LeGBa]

28 minutes ago, Roland said:

And you complain that checking dew collectors and looting toilets is boring....

 

When did i say it´s boring? I said i don´t like the water changes and my main argument is that it is stupid that there is water everywhere that can´t be used at all, that water isn´t harder now, just different, but there is even more food now (wich is really odd as MM stated water had to be changed because it was an all you can drink buffet on day one, but food was aswell and now is even more of an all you can eat)  and that containers with liquid in them suddenly dissappear. And yes, i wouldn´t mind having bottles for acid and canisters for gas in my inventory when used. Also the conformity with other liquid was never the reason for this.

 

We just tested the mod for the first time, and electrical parts beeing loot only instead of beeing craftable like in other mods where you need a ton of them, is a thing we don´t really like. I have to  play it like intended before i deny it, isn´t that something you would agree with? (You at least used that argument a lot before A21 hit)

 

@meganoth Not 100% sure, but the amounts i get from the things i usually always wrench down seem normal.

Edited August 11, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Roland]

Man, I was just joking. Too soon, I guess.

[Gamida]

Too Soon™

[Jost Amman]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

When did i say it´s boring? I said i don´t like the water changes and my main argument is that it is stupid that there is water everywhere that can´t be used at all, that water isn´t harder now, just different, but there is even more food now (wich is really odd as MM stated water had to be changed because it was an all you can drink buffet on day one, but food was aswell and now is even more of an all you can eat)  and that containers with liquid in them suddenly dissappear. And yes, i wouldn´t mind having bottles for acid and canisters for gas in my inventory when used. Also the conformity with other liquid was never the reason for this.

Did you even consider how much inventory clutter we have every time they add something new?

 

Players like you simply don't get it, or just don't want to think about it.

Please... please... add back the weapon parts in loot! --> Net result: a huge amount of parts in loot that make inventory management a nightmare.

Fortunately, it's not up to players to decide how the game should be balanced, and may I say I'm grateful it's not up to (most) modders too?

 

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

and electrical parts beeing loot only instead of beeing craftable

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a grammar nazi here, but since I noticed you often use that, I thought you either really like bees, or it could be a misspelling of being. 

 

Edited August 11, 2023 by Jost Amman (see edit history)

[Vaeliorin]

9 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

how many electrical parts can be harvested in the Navezgane General Hospital?

 

It´s 2584. Fully perked into salvage operation with a fully modded Q6 impact driver.

 

And no i wasn´t bored,  The District Zero overhaul mod uses them to craft energy cells for laser weapons.

So about half the amount I usually have in a box by day 21 (I wrench a lot...)

[pApA^LeGBa]

13 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Did you even consider how much inventory clutter we have every time they add something new?

 

Players like you simply don't get it, or just don't want to think about it.

Please... please... add back the weapon parts in loot! --> Net result: a huge amount of parts in loot that make inventory management a nightmare.

Fortunately, it's not up to players to decide how the game should be balanced, and may I say I'm grateful it's not up to (most) modders too?

 

Sorry, don't mean to sound like a grammar nazi here, but since I noticed you often use that, I thought you either really like bees, or it could be a misspelling of being. 

 

 

What you don´t get is that not everyone is the same and that people enjoy different things. You were happy for years with the old system but now it´s apparently the devil ifself.

 

Inventory Managment is a part of survival gameplay btw. And i didn´t say a single word about weapon parts. Please don´t make stuff up just to have an argument. That makes you look desperate.

 

And again, i don´t like what the new system does to the freedom of how to play, the system might not be the best but i can adapt easily and would´t mind it too much if it wouldn´t force a certain playstyle. I also would appreciate changes that make survival harder, but this change isn´t doing that. They even made it easier with food. What a joke.

 

And everyone saying it didn´t kill a part of beeing able to play however you want, is straight up lying.

 

Also as someone who exclusivly plays SP, please don´t judge like you know everything. Greetings from a football field full of dew collectors from our MP Coop server where you can´t play without using the trader anymore.

Edited August 12, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[meganoth]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

They even made it easier with food.

 

I assume this is probably just an unintended consequence of dabbling with the loot tables. If you remove lots of items from some loot table or make items drop less often then other items necessarily drop more often. Probably they could have saved themselves a lot of balancing time if they had programmed a statistical tool to analyse actual drop amounts for typical plays early in development (which is a lot easier to see in hindsight). Then they could have "fixed" certain drop amounts (for food for example) once they are satisfied with their balance.

 

 

[Jost Amman]

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

What you don´t get is that not everyone is the same and that people enjoy different things. You were happy for years with the old system but now it´s apparently the devil ifself.

Years ago, the loot tables were ridiculously empty compared to what they added later, and you not taking that into account demonstrates how little you understand about balancing a game.

 

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Inventory Managment is a part of survival gameplay btw. And i didn´t say a single word about weapon parts. Please don´t make stuff up just to have an argument. That makes you look desperate.

It was an example of people who think like you, you can't even understand that? 

 

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

And again, i don´t like what the new system does to the freedom of how to play, the system might not be the best but i can adapt easily and would´t mind it too much if it wouldn´t force a certain playstyle.

You mean people who like to completely forego a core part of the game?

We've been there, we've discussed that, and I think TFP shouldn't sacrifice balancing the game for the broader audience for the sake of, what looks like, a vocal minority.

 

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

And everyone saying it didn´t kill a part of beeing able to play however you want, is straight up lying.

As I also said on Steam, playing "the way you want", doesn't mean you should be able to do whatever you want independently of the rules and mechanics of the game.

I want to be able to fly to the moon, why can't I?

I want to be able to kill zombies with my mind, why can't I?

Everyone has a different point of view on what "play however you want" is, but in games means gameplay is not linear, doesn't mean what you think.

 

6 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Also as someone who exclusivly plays SP, please don´t judge like you know everything. Greetings from a football field full of dew collectors from our MP Coop server where you can´t play without using the trader anymore.

I've always supported different balancing for SP and MP, actually, and my opinions have always been exclusively on my SP experience and SP gameplay... who looks desperate making up stuff to discredit my opinion now? 

 

I've suggested some time ago that the devs create separate balancing rules for SP and MP, but someone from the team (I think) replied it's too much work to do and that the current balancing is ok. I disagree. But who am I to know? Whatever.

 

You'll definitely be a great customer for some modder, but you're absolutely stonewalling any change in vanilla.

 

[Abusimplea]

20 hours ago, Jost Amman said:

Please... please... add back the weapon parts in loot! --> Net result: a huge amount of parts in loot that make inventory management a nightmare.

Not a new problem. The inventory already has waaaay too few slots for the loot diversity of the game.

Moar potential inventory slots and another tier of pocket mods would be nice. Also, weapon parts should be salvagable into steel or iron.

 

The inventory size is one of the most modded things in this game. Most PvE servers have serverside mods giving more active and potential inventory slots.

[Jost Amman]

42 minutes ago, Abusimplea said:

Not a new problem. The inventory already has waaaay too few slots for the loot diversity of the game.

Moar potential inventory slots and another tier of pocket mods would be nice. Also, weapon parts should be salvagable into steel or iron.

 

The inventory size is one of the most modded things in this game. Most PvE servers have serverside mods giving more active and potential inventory slots.

Maybe I didn't explain my example very well... I didn't mean the weapon parts that we have now, I mean the ones where you had each part of the weapon as a separate component (like handle, trigger, stock).

 

The old ones really cluttered the inventory while looting!

Compared to now, TFP already have removed at least 3/4 unnecessary objects from loot for each weapon type.

 

Glass jars are nothing compared to that, but they did clutter mostly the loot tables.

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Jost Amman I am talking about doing mechanics of the game. I want to be able to deceide by myself how much of wich existing mechanic the game has i want to use. The game is about surviving the zombie apocalypse and withstanding the horde every 7 days and it shouldn´t matter how you do that. This is what made this game so great. I do not forego the mechanics of this game, i use all of them, i just differ the amount of time i spend with them with every playtrough. I am not asking for anything new or unrelatable.

 

And if there is only one valid way to do this when there is other possiblities aswell but you get forced by the skill and water mechanic to do one way only , that´s a bad move. It´s bad for replayability. I am already sick of vanilla and have no interest in any overhaul that doesn´t remove the water and skill changes. Never happened so fast before and i played trough 11 alphas (it was A10 at release? It´s so long ago i can´t remember). You can rant whatever you want. That opinion won´t change. I don´t want the game to go out of it´s way, i simply wanna use mechanics that are in the game not only beeing squeezed in during the endless looting cycle. If i want that i play Borderlands or any other loot shooter.

 

If you assume the majority already does only looting anyways, where is the problem in keeping other playstyles aswell? And those changes didn´t balance anything. Water is no issue at all if you adapt to constantly going looting. I don´t even need a dew collector if i throw myself in the hamster wheel TFP seems to want.

 

And until A21 i never ranted against changes since steam release. I complained about survival getting to easy, sure.

 

Edited August 12, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)

[Rotor]

I believe, for better or for worse, the only way to play "survival" mode is to ignore traders all together.  So, with that in mind, and only having ammo I can find, because I cant make brass except wrenching (so i must conserve), I turned all settings down.  Dumb zombies they are.  Currently working on finding stand alone mods for no cops, no demos, and probably no radiated either.  I might even load a not trader mod so I am not tempted by the dark easy path :).  Then add a mod that lets me collect water, which ever it maybe without having to loot to boil.  I should be able to collect from mud and filter with cloth and boil.  Anyways, enough from me.  Back to your regularly scheduled programming.

[Jost Amman]

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

I want to be able to deceide by myself how much of wich existing mechanic the game has i want to use.

Does that mean that you will also do some looting and use traders?

Because I thought you said some play styles are not possible anymore because you have to loot, which from what I understand you hate.

 

If you can loot a bit and trade a bit, there are plenty of ways to skill up crafting, then.

 

And, by the way, I'm not ranting or trying to convince you... why would I care how you play?

I'm just debating, since I find your line of reasoning... peculiar.

 

I think you don't want to admit, even to yourself, that you really want to forego (yes, forego!) an entire part of the game to follow your so-called "play style".

 

3 hours ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

If you assume the majority already does only looting anyways

I never said that.

I just said that looting is an integral part of the game, like fighting zombies, or building, or crafting.

 

That's the usual knee-jerking reaction from you.

You didn't get what you wanted, so you started accusing the other players of being unbalanced (only looting).

But the one who is trying to play the game in a completely unbalanced way, it's you.

 

The standard gameplay loop is:  surviving, fighting, looting, trading, gearing up, crafting, building, harvesting, improving, doing jobs, fighting the BM horde, and exploring.

 

If you remove looting and trading from the loop, you won't be able to improve very much with crafting, because you can't loot, or buy, crafting magazines.

But that's your choice. Nobody is forcing you to completely skip an integral part of the game.

 

Choices -> consequences.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Didn´t i make it clear enough that i want to differ what i do using all the mechanics, with the only difference from playtrough to playtrough being how much of wich mechanic i wanna use?

 

I hate the CONSTANT looting. Not the looting.

[Jost Amman]

12 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Didn´t i make it clear enough that i want to differ what i do using all the mechanics, with the only difference from playtrough to playtrough being how much of wich mechanic i wanna use?

 

I hate the CONSTANT looting. Not the looting.

Good. But you don't need constant looting to play (unless you're a min-maxer).

[pApA^LeGBa]

Yeah sure, try to keep up with crafting skill and water in MP Coop without looting a lot. Good luck with that.

 

And on higher difficulties and wanting to see different biomes than just forest you need to do a lot of looting to keep up with your gamestage for magazines in SP aswell. Sure there is magazine stands and mail boxes, but tbh that´s not what i want when playing a survival game that mailboxes and magazine stands are essential loot containers.

 

And if you don´t want easy mode with questing and trading it get´s even worse if you don´t go looting constantly.

 

Hence why this changes killed a lot of ways to play.

Edited August 12, 2023 by pApA^LeGBa (see edit history)