teragon maps

[crimson_binome]

6 hours ago, Shvonder said:

Please explain, if I have such "empty" blue city tiles in some places on the map, does it mean that I set the number of objects incorrectly?

 

 teragon cant find your game install.

[Shvonder]

3 hours ago, crimson_binome said:

 teragon cant find your game install.

Gddmn it, i again forgot manually change game folder path. Thanks!

[Riamus]

13 hours ago, Shvonder said:

Please explain, if I have such "empty" blue city tiles in some places on the map, does it mean that I set the number of objects incorrectly?

 

It means you are missing a path to your POIs.  If those are custom, you have to have a valid Add Source Path pointing to them.  If vanilla, your game path has to point to the correct folder where the games exe file is located.  Check the documentation regarding importing custom POI and the add source path command for info.

9 hours ago, Tim.Z said:

I´m sorry, I don´t know why they are empty. But can anybody tell me how to add Compo Pack Pois in an existing ini? I watched all the tutorials but can´t get a good map. If I import the .ini from Bobrpggamer the world is perfect, but there are no compo Pack Pois and I don´t know how I can add them, that would be awesome.

 

Thanks.

Tim.

CP has is own presets for Teragon.  Load one of those and it is ready to use.  You can then edit it as you want.  Be sure to look at the commands in that preset that match what is listed in the documentation for importing custom POI so you can learn how it works.  You can then use those commands in any other preset.

Edited February 25, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[bobrpggamer]

On 2/23/2023 at 6:40 AM, paulj_3 said:

Good Morning! Hi Bob!  No - don't stop with the rants! It helps other, lesser mortals (like me!) to understand more about the issues that we might - or do - face as we explore Teragon each day. I am just glad we have this particular forum thread, (Kudo's to Crimson_binome for starting it.) as you, Spud, Geoff, ZZTong, BT202, and Shvonder, have all put in information which has spurred a TON of development advice and information to come pouring back through the mighty Riamus hotline to the god Pille! It is hugely helpful to us, and likely serves to inspire TFP's development process, too.
Like you, "I am too busy mining and wrenching cars to get resources for my base. That's what I love about the game". Yup - I loved the limited map-making technology that this game has brought, as it (mostly) allowed 'mere mortals" to get involved in the creation of one's own, personal game. Modding and creating maps was one of the greatest part of playing Far Cry 3 and 4, too - particularly 4, as the game had matured and had a superb editor with the ability to push the newly-created map up to Ubisoft's very comprehensive Player Maps website. For me, 7DTD goes a long way toward equaling the "enjoyment longevity" of the Far Cry (4) game, and now Pille's Teragon has ramped up the ante to a whole new level! I'm 78 now, and the urge to create and learn is still very present, and is very much satisfied by the continuous development activity which this game provides, along with the interactions with you, Riamus, and all of the other guys participating here. Thanks!

Well if you are 78 and have Grand kids they probably think you are the coolest Granddad in the world playing Far Cry 3 & 4 and 7 Days to Die.

On 2/23/2023 at 6:46 AM, spud42 said:

@bobrpggamer    

I think you are confusing 8 bit and 16 grey scale images with the 0-255 or 0-100 of the colourRGB. the colour doesnt have anything to do with bit depth its just an arbitrary scale for each of the primary colours. 0 being black and 255 being 100% of R or G or B. if you set the scale to 0-100 then you can think of it as 0 to 100% of R or G or B.  the graphic you make is then exported as a 16bit greyscale png image. i tried to upload an image of that quick and very dirty height map but for some reason the forum kept rejecting it.  ok had to resize it in paint 50% 3 times now it loads if more time is taken a quite detailed map could be produced.

I am not sure about bit depth in grayscale, I always thought the higher the bit depth has higher values like an HDR image.

On 2/23/2023 at 11:40 AM, Tim.Z said:

@Bobrpggamer:

 

Thank you so much for your Maps. I tryd to build one but my Laptop was on 3% to build the small roads after 15 hours, so I canceled it. I have only one Question: Should there be Compo Pack Poi´s? Because I did not get any.

 

Greetings from Hamburg/Germany.

Tim.

Thank you. I am glad you enjoy them.

 

[bobrpggamer]

On 2/24/2023 at 7:16 AM, Tim.Z said:

I´m sorry, I don´t know why they are empty. But can anybody tell me how to add Compo Pack Pois in an existing ini? I watched all the tutorials but can´t get a good map. If I import the .ini from Bobrpggamer the world is perfect, but there are no compo Pack Pois and I don´t know how I can add them, that would be awesome.

 

Thanks.

Tim.

If you make a map from my ini, please show me what it looks like with more POIs or the CP pack, I'd love to see it. I use imgur for images but you can use whatever you like.

[Tim.Z]

Hi.

 

I have tried to use your ini and then add import town property list and import poi property list.

The path is for example C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/7DaysToDie/Mods/CP48.6 Complete/Teragon Lists/CP_All_Plus_Vanilla_Town_Property_List.txt

That is exactly the path that worked when I used the cp teragon ini. But it does not load the compo pack towns. A few are filled with pois, but these are the vanilla ones. and a few towns only have empty tiles. I realy don´t know what to do. Your map os so beautiful, but the vanilla pois are to boring for me, because i know them in and out.

 

Tim.

[Riamus]

18 minutes ago, Tim.Z said:

Hi.

 

I have tried to use your ini and then add import town property list and import poi property list.

The path is for example C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/7DaysToDie/Mods/CP48.6 Complete/Teragon Lists/CP_All_Plus_Vanilla_Town_Property_List.txt

That is exactly the path that worked when I used the cp teragon ini. But it does not load the compo pack towns. A few are filled with pois, but these are the vanilla ones. and a few towns only have empty tiles. I realy don´t know what to do. Your map os so beautiful, but the vanilla pois are to boring for me, because i know them in and out.

 

Tim.

If you only load the town property list, it won't have POI to put there. You need to load both town and POI lists for CP.

[bobrpggamer]

11 hours ago, Tim.Z said:

Hi.

 

I have tried to use your ini and then add import town property list and import poi property list.

The path is for example C:/Users/[username]/AppData/Roaming/7DaysToDie/Mods/CP48.6 Complete/Teragon Lists/CP_All_Plus_Vanilla_Town_Property_List.txt

That is exactly the path that worked when I used the cp teragon ini. But it does not load the compo pack towns. A few are filled with pois, but these are the vanilla ones. and a few towns only have empty tiles. I realy don´t know what to do. Your map os so beautiful, but the vanilla pois are to boring for me, because i know them in and out.

 

Tim.

You can just load the heightmap, biome map and the watermap. Then only add the towns and POIs to the command queue . If you do this map creation will only require the town and POIs to produce, so you can roll the dice as much as you want and not spend too much time doing so. That's what I did on all my maps and the trial and error took a lost less time.

 

I have no Idea what it takes to add the CP pack, so only the guys that know can help you there.

 

You can also find the terrain you want by only adding terrain to the queue. By adding the 3 main heightmap commands and putting a update preview at the end and a interrupt after it until you get it right. Then do the same for erosion, rivers and biome maps. After this, the only way to see preview in color and with the biomes is after the create zone map in the default queue. Right before towns is where you put your last update preview and put an interrupt at create towns and this will show your terrain and biomes in color so you can see if you have enough space (without water and tough terrain) to put towns and POIs in. If you do not have the space to put towns and POIs due to too many lakes and bays and too tall and rough terrains., you will not get the massive quantity and size of towns that you may want. When you have found the right terrain and biomes you want, then export the heightmap, watermap, and biome maps. and load them at the start of the queue and disable the map creation commands you do not need and it will skip its way down to zone map and then straight to town and POIs. The zone map takes seconds so you don't need to save that and load it.

 

It take a lot of trial and error and that the only way I got a map that I liked enough to keep.

Edited February 26, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[Blackout]

On 2/25/2023 at 8:27 PM, bobrpggamer said:

If you make a map from my ini, please show me what it looks like with more POIs or the CP pack, I'd love to see it. I use imgur for images but you can use whatever you like.

 

Spoiler

 

 

This was the most painful map creation experience in 7D2D for me, since I bought the game in 2013.
But I'm very thankful that we have Teragon to be able to do this.

I hadn't played for a few months and wanted to go back into action with 20.6 and the Compo Pack 48.6.
So I learned that we have a new tool, Teragon, but this is not easy to use.

I used your beautiful created vanilla 10k map ini as base and started from there. Goal was to create the same map, with the Compo Pack 48.6, all-inclusive + vanilla.
Took me 2 days and around 15 to 18 hours, more than 50 creation runs that failed, to finally get a result that looks playable.
First problem, I ran into, was to get Teragon to use the Compo Pack POIs. After I finally managed to get that working, the city number and size was the next problem.
Each adjusting run, was around 17 minutes and at first, I had a lot of crashes until I figured out that displaying the POI names on "Updating Preview" causes Teragon to crash when the new POIs are used. So I unchecked that and got to the next step.
Now all other POIs were generated and for some unknown reason, your ini had the setting of over 300 to 1000 POIs per biome, which flooded the whole map with several thousands POIs. Took me several runs to tune that down, up to the point where I allow only 25 POIs per biome (initially it was set to 300-1000).

Next step were the main roads. Took around 1:40 hour to generate them, just to find out that I forgot to remove the checkbox for "Display POI names" for the other "Updating Preview" tasks... It crashed again.

After another 1:40 hour I got to the next step, side roads. This was the most painful process, as it progressed, it became slower and slower.

Teragon also failed for unknown reason, to create the preview JPG and PNG, even so the setting for it was correct.
That is the reason I have only screenshots from Teragon itself.

The final result was had still way too much wilderness POIs, so I had to adjust the number further down, to only 5 per biome.
The first picture above, shows the result from the first full run, the other 2 pictures show the result from the second full run.
So another over 4 hours wasted.

The final run was 4:19 hours and the result good enough to stop at this point and try to play the map.

If anyone wants to give this map a try, download it from Dropbox. You need the compo pack 48.6 in your mods folder!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdrdeyx2v2uis8u/Teragon %26 Compo Pack 48.6 All inc Vanilla - 10k V2.rar?dl=0

Edited March 3, 2023 by Blackout (see edit history)

[Wolves Hero]

On 2/17/2023 at 8:52 PM, bobrpggamer said:

You might be able to get rid of old west towns by striking out the old west line the Town Property List with //

 

The default:

 

// town name; min tile count; max tile count;center:tile_type1,tile_type1,...;outskirt:tile_type1,tile_type2,...

// tile types -> commercial, countryresidential, countrytown, downtown, industrial, oldwest, residential, rural

//

//

regular_town;7;any;center:downtown,commercial,industrial;outskirt:rural,residential,countrytown

small_town;3;8;outskirt:residential,countrytown

oldwest_town;1;4;outskirt:oldwest

 

To:

 

// town name; min tile count; max tile count;center:tile_type1,tile_type1,...;outskirt:tile_type1,tile_type2,...

// tile types -> commercial, countryresidential, countrytown, downtown, industrial, oldwest, residential, rural

//

//

regular_town;7;any;center:downtown,commercial,industrial;outskirt:rural,residential,countrytown

small_town;3;8;outskirt:residential,countrytown

//oldwest_town;1;4;outskirt:oldwest

 

Its worth a try, but may cause an error or CTD.

 

With POIs its all about the last 2 settings.

 

Flatness Threshhold

Altitude Deviation Threshold

 

You could have 25000 spawn limit and either get a CTD or the same as 300 spawn limit.

 

The best thing to do is to add 10 Create Region POIs with different last 2 setting (20 Flatness and 20 Altitude works best for me) to get as much as you can. I get around 50 this way and if I get to many its a CTD for some reason.

 

Worked well on towns on my test Square islands 8K map but still too few wilderness POIs already 10 Create Region POIs with 25000 spawn limit but none worked maybe too small on 16 islands. No issued on old KingGen lots of wilderness POIs.

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Wolves Hero said:

 

Worked well on towns on my test Square islands 8K map but still too few wilderness POIs already 10 Create Region POIs with 25000 spawn limit but none worked maybe too small on 16 islands. No issued on old KingGen lots of wilderness POIs.

You have an old version. Update it and it will spawn POI without problems with only a single Create Region POI command and a far smaller max POI count (you couldn't fit 25000 on that size map, especially with all the water).

Edited March 3, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[Wolves Hero]

1 hour ago, Riamus said:

You have an old version. Update it and it will spawn POI without problems with only a single Create Region pOI command and a far smaller max POI count (you couldn't fit 25000 on that size map, especially with all the water).

I been tried install updated v0.39 but went back to v0.37 itself don't work for me. Endless 0.37 after update 0.39.

[Riamus]

Not sure why unless you have them in different places.  Try just deleting your Teragon folder (backup your presets first) and download the latest version.  You can also backup your entire Teragon folder if you want so you don't accidentally delete something you need.

[Wolves Hero]

2 hours ago, Riamus said:

Not sure why unless you have them in different places.  Try just deleting your Teragon folder (backup your presets first) and download the latest version.  You can also backup your entire Teragon folder if you want so you don't accidentally delete something you need.

I checked normal loaded 'world generator 1.ini' worked fine lots of wilderness POIs but all vanilla POIs no Compo-pack.  Loaded 'CP All Plus Metropolis Plus Vanilla List.ini' with compo-pack still lack wilderness POIs could outdated.

[Riamus]

14 minutes ago, Wolves Hero said:

I checked normal loaded 'world generator 1.ini' worked fine lots of wilderness POIs but all vanilla POIs no Compo-pack.  Loaded 'CP All Plus Metropolis Plus Vanilla List.ini' with compo-pack still lack wilderness POIs could outdated.

Not sure how they have their preset set up.  Might not have it set to include very many POI.  You can always change the max number in their preset.  But you need to update to the latest Teragon if you want an easy time getting more wilderness POI.  Your version was buggy for POI.

[paulj_3]

@Blackout "If anyone wants to give this map a try, download it from Dropbox. You need the compo pack 48.6 in your mods folder!"

Thank you Blackout! Been playing your map - just gone through the first Horde Night, and having a ball, setting up on top of a smaller, higher, bookstore in the central town, just east of the main mountain range.  This map is right "up there" with Bob's maps and I like them very much. I used MapToolz to add the BurntForest to this one, as - a while ago I had modded gunpowder to be made from the correct chemicals (i.e. 1 x Sulfur, 1 x Charcoal and 6 x  P. Nitrate) and so needed the Burnt Forest to get the charcoal.  This works well with Teragon, with zero issues. I noted your comment about the missing preview png, as mine was the same. I thought it was my mistake somewhere. (and it still might be). The other comment concerns the major roads having steps instead of gradual slopes, but that might just be another part of the learning curve.

Edited March 4, 2023 by paulj_3 (see edit history)

[Riamus]

5 hours ago, paulj_3 said:

@BlackoutThe other comment concerns the major roads having steps instead of gradual slopes, but that might just be another part of the learning curve.

Although I haven't tested it, the vertical smoothing setting on the Create roads and create side roads commands will probably solve that.

 

**Can't seem to remove the tag to Blackout in the quote while on mobile. 🤔

[Wolves Hero]

21 hours ago, Riamus said:

Not sure how they have their preset set up.  Might not have it set to include very many POI.  You can always change the max number in their preset.  But you need to update to the latest Teragon if you want an easy time getting more wilderness POI.  Your version was buggy for POI.

 

Loaded 'world generator 1.ini' file vanilla POIs has lots of wilderness POIs no compo-pack

 

But

 

Loaded 'CP48.6 All inc Vanilla.ini' file with compo-pack still lack wilderness POIs & always repeated POIs every cities, could broken wilderness POIs on all compo-pack files

Edited March 4, 2023 by Wolves Hero (see edit history)

[stallionsden]

51 minutes ago, Wolves Hero said:

 

Loaded 'world generator 1.ini' file vanilla POIs has lots of wilderness POIs no compo-pack

 

But

 

Loaded 'CP48.6 All inc Vanilla.ini' file with compo-pack still lack wilderness POIs & always repeated POIs every cities, could broken wilderness POIs on all compo-pack files

The cp has pois biome specific.  Where they should spawn ie overlook hotel in snow. 

 

[Riamus]

1 hour ago, Wolves Hero said:

 

Loaded 'world generator 1.ini' file vanilla POIs has lots of wilderness POIs no compo-pack

 

But

 

Loaded 'CP48.6 All inc Vanilla.ini' file with compo-pack still lack wilderness POIs & always repeated POIs every cities, could broken wilderness POIs on all compo-pack files

They are different presets made by different people and so are going to act differently.  The default preset isn't going to include any custom POI like CP.  That's normal, though you can always add the commands to include CP on that preset.

 

I can't help you with POI not spawning well on an outdated version of Teragon that is known to have problems with POI.  The beginning of this thread has info on trying to get POI to down in the earlier versions of Teragon. You can try those, but you aren't going to have anywhere near as much success as if you update.

Edited March 5, 2023 by Riamus (see edit history)

[spud42]

just updated to 0.39.0 will test as soon as i stop playing.  i must say that the rivers no matter how they were adjusted still had steep banks. 

However they do add an extra element to the game. how to get accross when the trader sends you 1.3 Km away and the river cuts through. do i follow the bank? left? right? do i just angle down the bank and then up the other side? ive had lots of coyotes and zeds hanging around in the rivers... 

[bobrpggamer]

On 3/3/2023 at 6:46 AM, Blackout said:

 

  Hide contents

 

 

This was the most painful map creation experience in 7D2D for me, since I bought the game in 2013.
But I'm very thankful that we have Teragon to be able to do this.

I hadn't played for a few months and wanted to go back into action with 20.6 and the Compo Pack 48.6.
So I learned that we have a new tool, Teragon, but this is not easy to use.

I used your beautiful created vanilla 10k map ini as base and started from there. Goal was to create the same map, with the Compo Pack 48.6, all-inclusive + vanilla.
Took me 2 days and around 15 to 18 hours, more than 50 creation runs that failed, to finally get a result that looks playable.
First problem, I ran into, was to get Teragon to use the Compo Pack POIs. After I finally managed to get that working, the city number and size was the next problem.
Each adjusting run, was around 17 minutes and at first, I had a lot of crashes until I figured out that displaying the POI names on "Updating Preview" causes Teragon to crash when the new POIs are used. So I unchecked that and got to the next step.
Now all other POIs were generated and for some unknown reason, your ini had the setting of over 300 to 1000 POIs per biome, which flooded the whole map with several thousands POIs. Took me several runs to tune that down, up to the point where I allow only 25 POIs per biome (initially it was set to 300-1000).

Next step were the main roads. Took around 1:40 hour to generate them, just to find out that I forgot to remove the checkbox for "Display POI names" for the other "Updating Preview" tasks... It crashed again.

After another 1:40 hour I got to the next step, side roads. This was the most painful process, as it progressed, it became slower and slower.

Teragon also failed for unknown reason, to create the preview JPG and PNG, even so the setting for it was correct.
That is the reason I have only screenshots from Teragon itself.

The final result was had still way too much wilderness POIs, so I had to adjust the number further down, to only 5 per biome.
The first picture above, shows the result from the first full run, the other 2 pictures show the result from the second full run.
So another over 4 hours wasted.

The final run was 4:19 hours and the result good enough to stop at this point and try to play the map.

If anyone wants to give this map a try, download it from Dropbox. You need the compo pack 48.6 in your mods folder!

https://www.dropbox.com/s/wdrdeyx2v2uis8u/Teragon %26 Compo Pack 48.6 All inc Vanilla - 10k V2.rar?dl=0

Looks quite beautiful, I am glad to see you made something cool with my ini. Teragon is a finicky program I have had weird things happen all the time including the no preview thing.

[bobrpggamer]

14 hours ago, spud42 said:

just updated to 0.39.0 will test as soon as i stop playing.  i must say that the rivers no matter how they were adjusted still had steep banks. 

However they do add an extra element to the game. how to get accross when the trader sends you 1.3 Km away and the river cuts through. do i follow the bank? left? right? do i just angle down the bank and then up the other side? ive had lots of coyotes and zeds hanging around in the rivers... 

This is what helped me with the rivers:

On 2/14/2023 at 6:52 PM, Riamus said:

River elevation should be close to the height of your flat terrain map height.  3 or 1 is definitely too low.  For example, if your standard ground level is 25m above bedrock and you set river elevation to 3, that means the riverbanks are going to be 22m high.  You want a higher elevation, not a lower elevation.  You should also have your flat water map level set to at least the height of your flat terrain map (and potentially higher depending what you're doing).

 

For getting specific POI in towns, it's going to depend mostly one what tiles are used.  If a POI is only available on a corner tile, for example, then it will appear less often than one that is on an intersection tile (cross of T) in a large city because you have far more intersections than corners.  Remember that POI sizes vary and each tile is set up to accept specific sizes, so not all POI are available on all tiles.  It will also depend on what you have for districts.  If most your districts are residential, you'll have fewer POI that only appear in downtown, for example.  You can adjust what districts are allowed in each size town in both center (anything not touching wilderness) and outskirt (anything touching wilderness) in the town property list.  This can help some in getting things to appear, but most of your problem is likely whether or not the tile(s) the POI can fit on are ones that will appear often or not often.  You do have the option of creating your own tiles that allow use of specific POI that you don't see as much and adding them to the town property list and the POI property list to help increase how often a POI appears.

I set my smoothing to 2000 on rivers for the heck of it and it seems to be an OK setting. The rivers I got were about 5 deep not including banks and I could drive my motorcycle down and through the river to the other side.

 

In the command panel I have:

 

Create Flat Heightmap: 30

 

Then after all the rest and right after Scale Heightmap.

 

Create Rivers: Depth 25 - Smoothing 2000 - Branch 3

Subtract Height Map: 25

Create Flat Water Map: Water Elevation 25

 

With this I get decent rivers.

 

Edited March 6, 2023 by bobrpggamer (see edit history)

[spud42]

 

ok. this took nearly 5 hours and i would say over 4 hours was the bloody roads. This is really the bottleneck on this tool.

 

anyway this is that quick and dirty height map i made a few weeks ago. Teragon 0.39.0  rivers on and erosion on . max cities 5 max size 60 min size 5, 250 wasteland POIs.

i think i had to increase the terrain level from 8 to 16 to get these towns. check out those bloody small roads in the lower right quadrant ! 

 

drawing a height map this way does seem viable but more time more steps... towards the end on the mountains i was doing 10 to 15 block difference between painted greys.  i started with a universal 10240 x 10240 at 30 grey... could be why there is @%$# all desert...

 

would like to play around more with this but Pille needs to work on the road generation. using only 1 core of a 16 core processor is SLOW ! 

at 5 hours a map i can only get 1 test world in a night.

 

those rivers though.. lol.

 

EDIT.. hmmm bloody is ok but b u g g e r isnt? lol

Edited March 6, 2023 by spud42 (see edit history)

[Evil_Geoff]

I am totally loving this latest release (0.39.0) of Teragon, other than the bridge building and road generation times.

With that said, I have a suggestion or three for consideration in future updates to address the bridges:

During the main road or side road creation regarding bridges and bodies of water (rivers/lakes) - First, limit the maximum number of bridges across any given body of water.  3 - 5 would not be an unreasonable number.  OR, insert a variable that can be set by the user.

Next, set up the bridge ends to be placed before roads generate.  The middles can then be spawned whenever in the process, either before or after the rest of the road system goes in.  At that point, add the property or tag that forces roads to connect to a Trader (or their tiles) that main roads are connecting to, on the bridge end pieces..  Setting that property/tag for the bridge ends would probably be the easiest fix for having bridges that have no roads connecting them at all.  Here's my last map generation, and other than going in and having to delete most of the bridges, I'm delighted with the results.