Has Horde night lost its magic?

[RipClaw]

42 minutes ago, Laz Man said:

I don't see how that is more thrilling then what we have today.

There were some quirks with the old AI that made it a little more thrilling. If you currently have a weak spot or a breach in a wall, the new zombie AI will find it. In A15 you could be lucky and the zombies came from a different direction.

 

It was also very hard to get the zombies into a funnel. I had a funnel base in A16. To get the zombies into the entrance I had to dig big pits that reached the bedrock. With the current AI it is very easy to direct them where you want them.

 

[ElDudorino]

Yeah, some randomness would really go a long way towards keeping things interesting. Having a bunch of zombies constantly running down the same path makes it so that not only is their behavior super easy to exploit, but you basically have to exploit it because those zombies are going to funnel into one spot regardless.

 

(Assuming you aren't fighting the horde on foot)

Edited February 24, 2022 by ElDudorino (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

1 minute ago, ElDudorino said:

Yeah, some randomness would really go a long way towards keeping things interesting. Having a bunch of zombies constantly running down the same path makes it so that not only is their behavior super easy to exploit, but you basically have to exploit it because those zombies are going to funnel into one spot regardless.

They weren't really random in the past either. They ran in a straight line toward the player and spawned somewhere random. So it then looked like they were acting randomly.

In general, I'm against complete randomness because you can't plan for randomness and then the bases would actually just be kill towers that you shoot down from. That would be just as boring.

 

As someone who likes to use traps, I have to rely on a certain predictability because the traps are fixed and don't move.

 

Currently, the zombies have already behaved somewhat randomly. If all the zombies would just run exactly where I want them to go, I wouldn't have any damage to the base after the horde. But after the horde I always see destroyed blocks because some of the zombies rather punch against the wall than follow the given path.

 

[Vaeliorin]

28 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

There were some quirks with the old AI that made it a little more thrilling. If you currently have a weak spot or a breach in a wall, the new zombie AI will find it. In A15 you could be lucky and the zombies came from a different direction.

 

It was also very hard to get the zombies into a funnel. I had a funnel base in A16. To get the zombies into the entrance I had to dig big pits that reached the bedrock. With the current AI it is very easy to direct them where you want them.

 

LIke this (obviously it's not finished)?

 

 

 

I gotta be honest, I miss A16 horde nights on one level, and don't on another.  I really liked the early hordes when I'd stand on top of my base trying to pick the enemies off, eventually moving down into the base to take them on in melee when they got to the walls.  Then, once you'd reached the trickle part of horde night, I'd try and see how far away I could hit them from with a bow or crossbow. 

 

Of course, eventually they'd turn into all ferals/radiated, at which point I would just let the traps kill them because my aim is garbage against anything that isn't running straight at me on level ground (well, it's better than it used to be now.)  That's the part I didn't like, because it felt like I didn't really get to participate in horde night anymore, just sit back and watch things die.

[RipClaw]

2 minutes ago, Vaeliorin said:

LIke this (obviously it's not finished)?

Pretty much like this but with dart traps in the walls and electric fences.

 

[Vaeliorin]

23 minutes ago, RipClaw said:

Pretty much like this but with dart traps in the walls and electric fences.

 

Yeah, I hadn't put the electric fences in yet.  And I don't remember dart traps being a thing in A16, but it could just be that I didn't use them.

[Survior]

I read the OP over a week ago and have been giving it some thought. The result is that today when I loaded my game I turned off blood moons.  I think I will enjoy the chill of being able to travel the map and do POIs and such at my own pace over... spending the whole week to gather just to lose most of is at the end of the week and needing to do it all again.

 

[Viktoriusiii]

On 2/24/2022 at 4:24 PM, Laz Man said:

Are you sure its just not nostalgia?  Back then you could just build 3 high solid square base and call it a day.  I don't see how that is more thrilling then what we have today.

 

Yes I am.

There were exploits. Just like now.

They fixed a lot of them, sure. And I appreciate that.
But it came at the cost of "intended play"

If you played as intended and tried to fortify  base that they could reach, it was hella scary.
Today the intended way is funneling or dying (or fighting them in the open), since if you try to do a perimetre defence, they will break through one block and the rest will be useless.

It feels just... I am sorry... lame.
It doesnt feel like 7d2d. It feels like the game switches genre for a night and becomes a 1st person TD shooter.

 

I am not asking for much. Zombies can still know where to go and ignore it.

I like the new AI more because it is far less buggy and can reach even intricate defensepositions.
I just hate how they all flock to one point.

Fataal said he added randomness. And that might very well be true.
BUT they avoid traps (except if you place them unnaturally in the ground) and come to doors like they are smeared with zombiebrains.

If there is a weakness, they will all flock to that one point. And it is boring (for a horrorgame).
I always reduce zombieblockdamage (on higher difficulties) because otherwise it means that concrete is done within 30 seconds, iron doors or bars are done even faster.

>A16 hordenight had its faults. Like most systems back in the day.
But as said MANY times:

TFPs generall dont fix systems. They overhaul them completely, often leaving them less fun and far more basic than before.

 

[ChickenWings]

On 2/21/2022 at 1:56 PM, Slingblade2040 said:

 

So has the horde night lost its touch?

 

Not for me, but I live in the wasteland 🙂

[Laz Man]

12 hours ago, Viktoriusiii said:

 

Yes I am.

There were exploits. Just like now.

They fixed a lot of them, sure. And I appreciate that.
But it came at the cost of "intended play"

If you played as intended and tried to fortify  base that they could reach, it was hella scary.
Today the intended way is funneling or dying (or fighting them in the open), since if you try to do a perimetre defence, they will break through one block and the rest will be useless.

It feels just... I am sorry... lame.
It doesnt feel like 7d2d. It feels like the game switches genre for a night and becomes a 1st person TD shooter.

 

I am not asking for much. Zombies can still know where to go and ignore it.

I like the new AI more because it is far less buggy and can reach even intricate defensepositions.
I just hate how they all flock to one point.

Fataal said he added randomness. And that might very well be true.
BUT they avoid traps (except if you place them unnaturally in the ground) and come to doors like they are smeared with zombiebrains.

If there is a weakness, they will all flock to that one point. And it is boring (for a horrorgame).
I always reduce zombieblockdamage (on higher difficulties) because otherwise it means that concrete is done within 30 seconds, iron doors or bars are done even faster.

>A16 hordenight had its faults. Like most systems back in the day.
But as said MANY times:

TFPs generall dont fix systems. They overhaul them completely, often leaving them less fun and far more basic than before.

 

 

Do you have an example A16 horde base in mind?  I would love to test it out in A20 to see how it actually plays out. Sure the AI is more efficient then the past but I don't think its as bad as you think.

 

 

[Viktoriusiii]

21 hours ago, Laz Man said:

 

Do you have an example A16 horde base in mind?  I would love to test it out in A20 to see how it actually plays out. Sure the AI is more efficient then the past but I don't think its as bad as you think.

 

 

Woodland house (or any cobblestone square) with 10 rows of spikes, only escape is inside and up or down.

 

Honestly you could use every poi as a hordebase. The complex ones were just confusing the a.I.

 

Spikes, bow/crossbow and if you felt fancy one row of wires.

That was all.

 

Now, they are better than A17, but still avoid traps like the plague. You'd think they suck at that... being undead and all.

 

Try it. Any base that does perimetre defense that doesnt funnel.

(Obviously if you have infinite m60 ammo, you won't struggle. But back then we managed with bows for 20+ days)

[OneManStanding]

Horde Nights are fun with friends, but not by myself. Playing survival - I like trying different biomes and the new POIs - I would like to be able to see more ambient threats available to the game, such as a general increase in zombie activity as you complete missions, hunt, smelt and build in a general area. Things that would make it worth your while to fortify your crafting base but not to the extent of a Horde Night. I like the feral sense as a way to make things more dangerous in general at night, and I will be giving that a try on another map.

 

Something I have been doing, separate from my survival world, is setting up a Horde World. It's just a plain green map with the Evil Dead cabin POI in the middle of the woods. We creative-in all the armor and weapons we'd like and just let it roll, another horde night every ten minutes. We did iron knuckles only, shotguns only, everybody with M60s... It was fun.