Party size

[Gamida]

So how long has it been since you can have more than 6 people in a party? I never noticed when this was added.

[th3s0n1c]

I believe thats an A19 thing.

 

And on a somewhat related topic.. I thought party GS for bloodmoon was supposed to be fixed (rebalanced)? Me and my 4 friends just got like 8 demolishers on day 28 and we were all around lvl 33 WTF.

[Boidster]

Based on the XML, the starting weight for the party GS calc was reduced from 1.7 to 1.0.

 

So, assuming no deaths and you are all level 32 (for easier math), each member's game stage is 72 (lvl 32 + 28 days alive) * 1.2. Vanilla parameters are:

 

startingWeight="1"

diminishingReturns="0.5"

 

So your party gamestage would be:

 

(72 * 1) + (72 * .5) + (72 * .25) + (72 * .125)

72 + 36 + 18 + 9 = 135 party game stage

 

Demolishers don't show up until GS 153, so you're pretty close. Probably need more specifics than "around level 33".

[th3s0n1c]

33 minutes ago, Boidster said:

Based on the XML, the starting weight for the party GS calc was reduced from 1.7 to 1.0.

 

So, assuming no deaths and you are all level 32 (for easier math), each member's game stage is 72 (lvl 32 + 28 days alive) * 1.2. Vanilla parameters are:

 

startingWeight="1"

diminishingReturns="0.5"

 

So your party gamestage would be:

 

(72 * 1) + (72 * .5) + (72 * .25) + (72 * .125)

72 + 36 + 18 + 9 = 135 party game stage

 

Demolishers don't show up until GS 153, so you're pretty close. Probably need more specifics than "around level 33".

It was about like this: I was level 36, one was 32, another one was 26, another was 28 and the last on was 38. These last 3 people dying all the time. And the second dies occasionally.

I just still find it sort of @%$#ed up that we had cops on day 21 and barely no irradiated and then we suddenly have lots of demos on the next one. We are barely getting to the tier 2 weapons as of now.

[Gamida]

So anyone know what the limit is in a party. I have seen mention of 12+

 

[JCrook1028]

21 hours ago, th3s0n1c said:

I was level 36, one was 32, another one was 26, another was 28 and the last on was 38. These last 3 people dying all the time. And the second dies occasionally.

If you don't have GS's to use then the formula can't be worked.

[Liesel Weppen]

On 10/11/2020 at 2:03 PM, Gamida said:

So how long has it been since you can have more than 6 people in a party? I never noticed when this was added.

Has been long. I had a party of 9 players in A17. The HUD didn't show all party members (dunno if it was limited to 8 or 6), but the party worked, XP had been shared between all players and so on.

I don't know if there is even a limit, besides what the HUD actually shows.

On 10/11/2020 at 6:42 PM, th3s0n1c said:

Me and my 4 friends just got like 8 demolishers on day 28 and we were all around lvl 33 WTF.

Me and my mate only saw demolishers rarely up to day 80 with combined gamestage of 250+. (Both level 70+).

Surprisingly we had two one on day 21, which was still in A19.0. But after that we haven't seen a single one for weeks.

[meganoth]

On 10/11/2020 at 6:42 PM, th3s0n1c said:

 Me and my 4 friends just got like 8 demolishers on day 28 and we were all around lvl 33 WTF.

Logfiles are not deleted so you probably still have the logfile of that session lying around. And the name has the date and time of the server start in it so you should be able to identify the right one.

Look inside, at the start of the bloodmoon it says what combined gamestage the party is assumed to have. Probably you'll also find your individual gamestages and AFAIK information which spawn group the demolishers belonged to and can check if there is something wrong there.

 

 

[th3s0n1c]

1 hour ago, Liesel Weppen said:

Me and my mate only saw demolishers rarely up to day 80 with combined gamestage of 250+. (Both level 70+).

Surprisingly we had two one on day 21, which was still in A19.0. But after that we haven't seen a single one for weeks.

We only had 1 or 2 on day 35 now. With higher levels.. so Idk wtf is going on lol

 

1 hour ago, meganoth said:

Logfiles are not deleted so you probably still have the logfile of that session lying around. And the name has the date and time of the server start in it so you should be able to identify the right one.

Look inside, at the start of the bloodmoon it says what combined gamestage the party is assumed to have. Probably you'll also find your individual gamestages and AFAIK information which spawn group the demolishers belonged to and can check if there is something wrong there.

Are you talking about the output log files? I couldnt find any of that info in there. Just like... server configs and who entered/left. (Would that be on the files of whoever runs the server? If so, that isnt me)  If its in another file, I'm not aware of (and I'm not very good at messing with those stuff)

[Liesel Weppen]

20 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

We only had 1 or 2 on day 35 now. With higher levels.. so Idk wtf is going on lol

As i said, it's normal. Dunno what people want. In previous versions "everybody" complained, they are to hard, now "everbody" complains there don't spawn any *lol*

 

And still, the pure level don't mean much, what is important is your gamestage. If you die a lot, you may still have level XY, but still not a high gamestage.

The idea behind the mechanic is to not deadlock people that are dying a lot anyway.

 

But maybe decoupling the difficulty setting from the gamestage calculation was a ... suboptimal idea.

[th3s0n1c]

9 minutes ago, Liesel Weppen said:

As i said, it's normal. Dunno what people want. In previous versions "everybody" complained, they are to hard, now "everbody" complains there don't spawn any *lol*

 

And still, the pure level don't mean much, what is important is your gamestage. If you die a lot, you may still have level XY, but still not a high gamestage.

The idea behind the mechanic is to not deadlock people that are dying a lot anyway.

 

But maybe decoupling the difficulty setting from the gamestage calculation was a ... suboptimal idea.

I'm not complaining they dont spawn.. Im complaining they spawned too early, imo. And I have no problem with they being "too hard", I really dont think they are. But I think they should be correctly tied to game progress. Like you had stated.. you only had them at day 80 on lvl 70+. That's a proper moment for them to show up.

In my solo world on A18, I only had demolishers after day 50 or 60 and after lvl 60+.

Now on A19 (19.1, more specifically), like I said, I find it @%$#ed up that we were getting 6 demos at day 28 when we barely had tier 2 weapons and lvl 30-ish. "Just because we are in 5 people and our gamestage combines".

[Liesel Weppen]

6 minutes ago, th3s0n1c said:

 Like you had stated.. you only had them at day 80 on lvl 70+.

Nope, i stated that we had two of them in week 3. But then for a long time never again.

I don't know if this was a bug... maybe.

[meganoth]

1 hour ago, th3s0n1c said:

We only had 1 or 2 on day 35 now. With higher levels.. so Idk wtf is going on lol

 

Are you talking about the output log files? I couldnt find any of that info in there. Just like... server configs and who entered/left. (Would that be on the files of whoever runs the server? If so, that isnt me)  If its in another file, I'm not aware of (and I'm not very good at messing with those stuff)

Yep, should be in the server output log. Bloodmoon starts like this:

2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.139 INF BloodMoon starting for day 64
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Party of 4, game stage 328, enemy max 1296, bonus every 43
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Party members: 
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 670, gameStage 171
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 171, gameStage 163
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 185, gameStage 163
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 176, gameStage 182
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.153 INF BloodMoonParty: SpawnZombie grp 0 feralHordeStageGS304 (count 1, numToSpawn 432, maxAlive 99), cnt 1, zombieJoeFeral, loot 0.03, at player 670, day/time 64 22:00

 

See the line starting with "Party"? You should have "Party of 5, game stage <nnn>". Your combined gamestage is this nnn

 

The serveradmin might send you the excerpt of your blood moon if you give him the time it happened. Then search for lines with "ZombieDemolition" in them, they also tell you what HordeStageGS<nnn> is spawned. Look into Data/Config/gamestages.xml  and entitygroups.xml and find lines with HordeStageGS<nnn> to see what should have spawned

 

But lets just assume you were minimum gamestage for demos,  the first mention of Demos happens in GS153:

 

entitygroups.xml:	<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS153"><entity name="animalZombieDog"/><entity name="zombieDarlene"/><entity name="zombieJoeRadiated" prob="0.48"/><entity name="zombieUtilityWorkerFeral" prob="0.7"/><entity name="zombieSpiderFeral" prob="0.5"/><entity name="zombieDemolition" prob="0.16"/><entity name="zombieFemaleFatRadiated" prob="0.47"/><entity name="zombieFatCopFeral" prob="0.6"/><entity name="zombieFemaleFatFeral" prob="0.6"/><entity name="zombieSpiderRadiated" prob="0.57"/><entity name="zombieJanitorFeral" prob="0.4"/><entity name="zombieMoe"/><entity name="zombieBoe"/></entitygroup>


gamestages.xml:		<gamestage stage="153"><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS140" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="2" interval="18"/><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS147" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="2" interval="30"/><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS153" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="7"/></gamestage>

It basically says there will be 216 zombies, randomly picked with probabilites as listed in entitygroups. The sum of values is about 8.6 and a demo has value 0.16, so the probability for a zombie to be demo is 0.16/8.6*100= 1.86. I.e. only every 50th zombie is a demo or you will see about 4 demos on average.

 

But probability is a @%$#, it is highly improbably but possible for up to 216 demos attacking your base at that gamestage if TFP doesn't built any fail-safes into their randomness algorithm. 

 

[th3s0n1c]

2 hours ago, meganoth said:

Yep, should be in the server output log. Bloodmoon starts like this:

2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.139 INF BloodMoon starting for day 64
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Party of 4, game stage 328, enemy max 1296, bonus every 43
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Party members: 
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 670, gameStage 171
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 171, gameStage 163
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 185, gameStage 163
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.141 INF Player id 176, gameStage 182
2020-09-19T22:47:06 6904.153 INF BloodMoonParty: SpawnZombie grp 0 feralHordeStageGS304 (count 1, numToSpawn 432, maxAlive 99), cnt 1, zombieJoeFeral, loot 0.03, at player 670, day/time 64 22:00

 

See the line starting with "Party"? You should have "Party of 5, game stage <nnn>". Your combined gamestage is this nnn

 

The serveradmin might send you the excerpt of your blood moon if you give him the time it happened. Then search for lines with "ZombieDemolition" in them, they also tell you what HordeStageGS<nnn> is spawned. Look into Data/Config/gamestages.xml  and entitygroups.xml and find lines with HordeStageGS<nnn> to see what should have spawned

 

But lets just assume you were minimum gamestage for demos,  the first mention of Demos happens in GS153:

 

entitygroups.xml:	<entitygroup name="feralHordeStageGS153"><entity name="animalZombieDog"/><entity name="zombieDarlene"/><entity name="zombieJoeRadiated" prob="0.48"/><entity name="zombieUtilityWorkerFeral" prob="0.7"/><entity name="zombieSpiderFeral" prob="0.5"/><entity name="zombieDemolition" prob="0.16"/><entity name="zombieFemaleFatRadiated" prob="0.47"/><entity name="zombieFatCopFeral" prob="0.6"/><entity name="zombieFemaleFatFeral" prob="0.6"/><entity name="zombieSpiderRadiated" prob="0.57"/><entity name="zombieJanitorFeral" prob="0.4"/><entity name="zombieMoe"/><entity name="zombieBoe"/></entitygroup>


gamestages.xml:		<gamestage stage="153"><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS140" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="2" interval="18"/><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS147" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="2" interval="30"/><spawn group="feralHordeStageGS153" num="216" maxAlive="48" duration="7"/></gamestage>

It basically says there will be 216 zombies, randomly picked with probabilites as listed in entitygroups. The sum of values is about 8.6 and a demo has value 0.16, so the probability for a zombie to be demo is 0.16/8.6*100= 1.86. I.e. only every 50th zombie is a demo or you will see about 4 demos on average.

 

But probability is a @%$#, it is highly improbably but possible for up to 216 demos attacking your base at that gamestage if TFP doesn't built any fail-safes into their randomness algorithm. 

 

Got it.. apparently we got GS 153 ON DOT. Still find it stupidly bad balanced lol