Chimosh Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 It just blows my mind. I've come back to the game to just see whats been going on. Decided to test out a nomadic style of game play with my wife. We have found a nice church POI that has its own labyrinth and a nice bell tower. We decided to test out staying in the bell tower for the first horde night. You could guess the zombie AI has no idea how to get to us, when its actually pretty easy, the POI has its own ladders to get to the roof and its a quick step across the rooftop up another ladder to get to us. But the zombies cannot navigate ladders, and more often than not sabotage themselves by taking out ladder pieces. Then just spend the night running around in circles. I shouldn't be surprised..... I remember 5 years ago complaining about zombie AI. Much improvement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 Yeah, the zombie AI is kinda detremental to itself when ladders are involved, they seem to have a hard time getting on the right side to actually climb them, so they often go into destruction mode and end up taking out the only way up to you themselves. Zombies and ladders have never worked right in 7dtd ever. But think about it, would a zombie with how uncoridanated they are actually even be able to climb a ladder? I surprized they can actually run without tripping over their own feet (add this feature btw, decent chance for slow walking zombies, much lower chance for ferals). A19 has other problems though like the generally hated new loot system, that is far to linear and far to easy to get quality 5-6 items like candy in every contrainer. They need to go back to a18 style and just add the new items, and maybe tweak it a bit so stuff like steel tools are super hard to find early game. Plus no matter the gs finding quality 4-6 stuff was rare in a18, compared to now where its handed to you pretty much every single container. I'd honestly like to see more options in the options section for customizing games, like why not a option to disable zombie digging, or zombie swimming? If I wanna live in a hole I should be allowed to, its my game, but the devs keep removing stuff like this to try to force people to play a certain way, and that doesn't fly in a sandbox type game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gideon Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 I'm not over concerned with this, as they are ZOMBIES. If/when we get living opponents, like bandits, then I will be deeply concerned if their pathfinding is terrible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boidster Posted August 1, 2020 Share Posted August 1, 2020 In A18.4 we built a custom horde base in an open city block with a bridge ~20 blocks to the roof of an adjacent building. Ladder on that building's wall to get up to the bridge gave us a way to get into/out of our base when all the traps were on. I was amazed when part of the horde figured this out and climbed up that ladder and came across the bridge at us. We had an iron door at the end of the bridge, but weren't paying attention to it during the fight. Only when I ran to that side of the base to refill dart traps did I notice a biker gang was almost finished beating the door down. CHANGE OF PLANS! I had no idea the AI could find a path to me by using a ladder 30 blocks away (20 blocks from base to building, + 10 blocks because I was standing on the far side of the horde base). This not to argue that the AI is great with ladders, but they were pretty good at least this one time. Note to self: always put horizontal doors or trap doors into the bridge! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Solomon Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 15 hours ago, Boidster said: In A18.4 we built a custom horde base in an open city block with a bridge ~20 blocks to the roof of an adjacent building. Ladder on that building's wall to get up to the bridge gave us a way to get into/out of our base when all the traps were on. I was amazed when part of the horde figured this out and climbed up that ladder and came across the bridge at us. We had an iron door at the end of the bridge, but weren't paying attention to it during the fight. Only when I ran to that side of the base to refill dart traps did I notice a biker gang was almost finished beating the door down. CHANGE OF PLANS! I had no idea the AI could find a path to me by using a ladder 30 blocks away (20 blocks from base to building, + 10 blocks because I was standing on the far side of the horde base). This not to argue that the AI is great with ladders, but they were pretty good at least this one time. Note to self: always put horizontal doors or trap doors into the bridge! Its more spawn related than pathing related what happened with you guys, they probably spawned at the ladder and pathed straightforward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chimosh Posted August 2, 2020 Author Share Posted August 2, 2020 18 hours ago, Scyris said: Yeah, the zombie AI is kinda detremental to itself when ladders are involved, they seem to have a hard time getting on the right side to actually climb them, so they often go into destruction mode and end up taking out the only way up to you themselves. Zombies and ladders have never worked right in 7dtd ever. But think about it, would a zombie with how uncoridanated they are actually even be able to climb a ladder? I surprized they can actually run without tripping over their own feet (add this feature btw, decent chance for slow walking zombies, much lower chance for ferals). A19 has other problems though like the generally hated new loot system, that is far to linear and far to easy to get quality 5-6 items like candy in every contrainer. They need to go back to a18 style and just add the new items, and maybe tweak it a bit so stuff like steel tools are super hard to find early game. Plus no matter the gs finding quality 4-6 stuff was rare in a18, compared to now where its handed to you pretty much every single container. I'd honestly like to see more options in the options section for customizing games, like why not a option to disable zombie digging, or zombie swimming? If I wanna live in a hole I should be allowed to, its my game, but the devs keep removing stuff like this to try to force people to play a certain way, and that doesn't fly in a sandbox type game. That depends on your interpretation on what class of Zombie we are talking about. Are we talking The Walking Dead TV series kind, where all they do is walk and have seemingly no intellect. Or are we talking World War Z kind that can vault and run and tumble and are very fast. I mean your view on what you think a zombie should be is already broken by how they behave in game, with ferals and the blood moon making them able to detect you, hints at some intelligence. AND that the blood moon night is designed to challenge players with base building, meaning its supposed to be challenging. The AI doesn't reflect the core game design. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
watzlp Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 In all honesty, I think they just focused more on making zombies Grief players buildings than finding players. Ive literally stood next to an open door and the zombie stood there attacking the wall instead of just walking to me, and I KNOW its because by them attacking the wall, its going to cost me supplies to repair it. Then again, I also have to ask.. why do zombies know to avoid my traps and go to doors and what part of my wall is the weakest in the first place? Did every zombie graduate from engineering school? is that why demo zombies are a thing now? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
meganoth Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 3 hours ago, watzlp said: In all honesty, I think they just focused more on making zombies Grief players buildings than finding players. Ive literally stood next to an open door and the zombie stood there attacking the wall instead of just walking to me, and I KNOW its because by them attacking the wall, its going to cost me supplies to repair it. Then again, I also have to ask.. why do zombies know to avoid my traps and go to doors and what part of my wall is the weakest in the first place? Did every zombie graduate from engineering school? is that why demo zombies are a thing now? You don't like it when they are too dump to find the open door, but you also don't like it when they find your doors. Can we just summarize your opinion to "I don't like it whatever it is"? 😀 The zombie not going to your open door is simply the result of many people having demanded more randomized behaviour of zombies (it was not the only reason, but part of it). So now some of them get in a rage and hit whatever is in front of them. Don't tell me you haven't seen lots and lots of zombies going through open doors immediately. This zombie hitting the wall beside your open door is evidence of this randomizing AI and no bug. About avoiding traps: If you are talking about spike traps and barbed wire, put them flush with the ground (i.e. put them in 1 block deep ditches) and they won't be avoided. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Scyris Posted August 2, 2020 Share Posted August 2, 2020 17 minutes ago, meganoth said: You don't like it when they are too dump to find the open door, but you also don't like it when they find your doors. Can we just summarize your opinion to "I don't like it whatever it is"? 😀 The zombie not going to your open door is simply the result of many people having demanded more randomized behaviour of zombies (it was not the only reason, but part of it). So now some of them get in a rage and hit whatever is in front of them. Don't tell me you haven't seen lots and lots of zombies going through open doors immediately. This zombie hitting the wall beside your open door is evidence of this randomizing AI and no bug. About avoiding traps: If you are talking about spike traps and barbed wire, put them flush with the ground (i.e. put them in 1 block deep ditches) and they won't be avoided. Either 1 block deep ditches, or in the path they "have" to take to force them to walk thru them. Otherwise they'll just shimmy around them. As for the AI i've seen this too, not every zombie is a smart zombie in a19, some of them are randomly dumb as rocks, that zombie mention there was one of the dumb ones. Its a random chance on spawn whether they are smart or stupid, and normal or feral impacts this, ferals then to be a bit smarter than non-ferals as a whole. So far best thing I like in a19 other than the graphics (great job there btw), is the random zombie behaviors when they fall/break doors, I've had zombies fall from the cieling then fall on their butts right in front of me. I've also had ones bust doors down then come thru the door and fall over. Its a nice touch and its random enough that its neat when it happens. The auto shotgun and desert vulture are nice. Loot system is as i've said completly trash and needs to go back to a18 to bring the fun back to looting again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
eXSe Posted August 5, 2020 Share Posted August 5, 2020 I just love the new breakout zombies... especially when they crumple down before me to roflstomp them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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