Zeds know block durability?

[RyanX]

Not really understanding how zeds know what blocks to start attacking first...even if it's behind the building they are moving towards. Make Zombies Great Again! And while you're at it, fix the minigame where you take bicycle damage every time you hit a stone on the it. That is all and thanks!

[Benjiro]

If any of your blocks is slightly damaged, the smart AI pathing can calculated its less block HP between you and them, so they attack that block.

 

For example, if you have a square tower with everything else is equal ( defenses, blocks etc). If one of your blocks on the south side is damaged and the the Zombies start in the North:

 

North: 10.000HP to get to you.

East: 10.000HP to get to you.

South: 9.950HP to get to you.

West: 10.000HP to get to you.

 

This is how smart AI works. They calculate the path every few seconds based upon the blocks between you and them. Ground is 0 score, a block is X HP score, a defense feature is Y score. And all this combines how the AI even outsmarts even some players.

 

The old AI will simply have done a direct line towards you in the north and used brute force to open a pathway.

[Cirion]

I think they're more interested in block distance rather than block HP from what I have seen. They aren't going to prioritize certain blocks before others. Unless perhaps they can not get a clear path to you. Then yea they are gonna destroy everything and probably focus low HP blocks.

 

Single walled structures are pointless. It'll get trashed quickly. They'll opt to destroy your walls even if they have a clear path, if its a shorter linear path to you. This AI is still in the game, it has not changed.... unless.... see below...

 

But once you double wall structures, they seem to leave most of the building alone (assuming they have an otherwise clear path to you, this is important). They will NOT follow the clear path to you when it is only single walled, unless the clear path to you is also the shortest path. Tested and verified this. If you really want added security, you should triple wall your structures, that way if one wall goes down somehow you're still OK.

 

Doesn't matter if the blocks are wood or steel. The same rules seem to apply.

[crazyduck]

If any of your blocks is slightly damaged, the smart AI pathing can calculated its less block HP between you and them, so they attack that block.

 

For example, if you have a square tower with everything else is equal ( defenses, blocks etc). If one of your blocks on the south side is damaged and the the Zombies start in the North:

 

North: 10.000HP to get to you.

East: 10.000HP to get to you.

South: 9.950HP to get to you.

West: 10.000HP to get to you.

 

This is how smart AI works. They calculate the path every few seconds based upon the blocks between you and them. Ground is 0 score, a block is X HP score, a defense feature is Y score. And all this combines how the AI even outsmarts even some players.

 

The old AI will simply have done a direct line towards you in the north and used brute force to open a pathway.

 

I would not call it a Smart AI i would call it a Cheating AI . If you need to give your AI such Details to make it work something is wrong.

Sure the AI always know everything and it would make sense if Zombies attacking random Blocks to get to you and if a block is gone they focus on this place but not if there is one block from 400 with 5 HP lower value as all the other blocks.

Same the integratet GPS inside player build Houses no Zombie should know the exact Route to the Place where the Player is hiding , if they come close to Player they could smell him , hear him or possible see him but not if you have 3 floors hiding in the upper floor in the room on other side of the building and zombies break into the base and run like GPS Controlled to your location.

[Cirion]

I would not call it a Smart AI i would call it a Cheating AI . If you need to give your AI such Details to make it work something is wrong.

Sure the AI always know everything and it would make sense if Zombies attacking random Blocks to get to you and if a block is gone they focus on this place but not if there is one block from 400 with 5 HP lower value as all the other blocks.

Same the integratet GPS inside player build Houses no Zombie should know the exact Route to the Place where the Player is hiding , if they come close to Player they could smell him , hear him or possible see him but not if you have 3 floors hiding in the upper floor in the room on other side of the building and zombies break into the base and run like GPS Controlled to your location.

 

I would agree with this. If zombies really do do this, that's definitely cheating. They should just attack blocks at random when they can't path to you.

 

I'm also annoyed that zombies will actively avoid traps. They should not do that.

 

When bandits are added to the game, I can understand them dodging traps, since they're smart, but zombies should not be smart.

 

The only way to make zombies eat traps is to use a base design similar to what I just posted in the 500 block base design challenge thread, where the only clear path to you has traps.

[Benjiro]

I would agree with this. If zombies really do do this, that's definitely cheating. They should just attack blocks at random when they can't path to you.

 

I'm also annoyed that zombies will actively avoid traps. They should not do that.

 

When bandits are added to the game, I can understand them dodging traps, since they're smart, but zombies should not be smart.

 

The only way to make zombies eat traps is to use a base design similar to what I just posted in the 500 block base design challenge thread, where the only clear path to you has traps.

 

I just looked at several of those "bases" in the 500 block challenge thread and it so make me cringe. When i play a Zombie game, i expect to build a old fashion medieval fortress. Thick walls, ramparts, battlements, machicolations! Now its really more about AI cheesing with deliberate open paths, drop zones, infinite loops etc.

 

Never felt safe in pre-A17 7D2D unless i had a thick wall and no clear way inside. Now one feels safe with a clear path inside that cheeses the AI. How things have turned around...

 

Agree that bandits need to get this Ai. And sleeper zombies inside of houses also need the smart AI, so they can properly navigate the houses but that is it. The rest outside needs to be more dumb Ai.

 

A16 was already low on the hours played ( compared to A15 and before ). A17 is even lower. The game simply does not feel the same anymore and it all started with A16.

[LuckyStar]

I would not call it a Smart AI i would call it a Cheating AI . If you need to give your AI such Details to make it work something is wrong.

 

 

 

 

Have you ever actually worked on AI?

 

 

Sorry I don't mean to offend, but your statement is just such a silly thing to say about AI.

OF COURSE the AI needs to know things ahead of time.

It's job it's not to figure out where you are but simulate figuring it out.

 

If you're thinking 7DTD is going to have some advanced heuristic AI that can think at the level a human does while using up tons of resources to create and render a voxel world, you're living in a fantasy.

 

Now I'll agree that the AI as it is needs work but what you're asking for is science-fiction.

[HungryZombie]

Have you ever actually worked on AI?

 

 

Sorry I don't mean to offend, your statement just such a silly thing to say about AI.

OF COURSE the AI needs to know things ahead of time.

It's job is not to figure out where you are but simulate figuring it out.

 

If you're thinking 7DTD is going to have some advanced heuristic AI that can think at the level a human does while using up tons of resources to create and render a voxel world, you're living in a fantasy.

 

Now I'll agree that the AI as it is needs work but what you're asking for is science-fiction.

 

I wish they could just make the zombies like open doorways more than my walls. If they figure that out I'll call it a WIN =)

[LuckyStar]

I wish they could just make the zombies like open doorways more than my walls. If they figure that out I'll call it a WIN =)

 

[crazyduck]

Have you ever actually worked on AI?

 

 

Sorry I don't mean to offend, but your statement is just such a silly thing to say about AI.

OF COURSE the AI needs to know things ahead of time.

It's job it's not to figure out where you are but simulate figuring it out.

 

If you're thinking 7DTD is going to have some advanced heuristic AI that can think at the level a human does while using up tons of resources to create and render a voxel world, you're living in a fantasy.

 

Now I'll agree that the AI as it is needs work but what you're asking for is science-fiction.

 

Seems you did not understand what i meant. I did not mean the AI should not "know" it, but you can do it easy way and let the AI "use" this Informations or make it so the AI use different Mechanics to reach the Goal.

you can tell the AI to fully use all this Data and take the easy way like attack block with lowest hp or you can let the AI spread out attack different Blocks and if somewhere a Block is destroyed every Zombie in Range of X go to this Hole to get inside.

 

same inside the Houses, you can let the AI use the Data and take the direct Route to the Player or you let the ai run into the house and let them ignore the X Y Z Coordinates of the player and use different Mechanics like Smell, Hear or See the Player to attack and if no Smell no Hear no See swarm around the Building until you hear smell or see the Target.

[pahbi]

AI in every game has to cheat to some extent in order to work. I'm guessing zombies in 7DTD have to cheat even more, given that their clever opponents can build an infinite variety of ways to kill zombies.

 

- P

[Venemox]

If it's one thing Zombies are known for, it's their intelligence! Or maybe their prescient knowledge, x-ray vision, or psychic hive mind.

[xXBadDreamXx]

ah yes...ultra smart supernatural zombies that have gotten this way because theyve eaten so many BRAINS!

[hotpoon]

Had an incident just now where I was standing on some scaffolding that had one plank attached to a roof of a POI I hadn't yet entered. I saw a dog and took a pot shot at it and instead of running to the bottom of the scaffolding, it ran to the house, and started breaking the door down.

I thought to myself 'well obviously that dog is a moron' and continued shooting at another zombie in the street. The next thing I knew, the dog was on my scaffolding. It had broken into the house, made it's way upstairs, out the roof, and across the plank.

 

That's just not cricket, Fun Pimps.

 

ah yes...ultra smart supernatural zombies that have gotten this way because theyve eaten so many BRAINS!

 

lol

[Xylvier]

I believe that an AI is always supposed to simulate the intelligence of the entity controlled by it, as mentioned in earlier posts here.

While a game will always grant the AI more insight then a player would have, it should not mean that players always have a chess-master style AI opponent to deal with. That is in the hand of the programmers.

 

AI knows all, ok, uses all to it's advantage, not ok.

Realism is achieved if the AI does make the entities (in this case Zeds) act and react as well as behave like what we would expect from essentially stupid or at least lead by basic instincts (food) creatures. Be it a dog or vulture, a human or a animal zed should not (imho) have much different intellect. The fact that human zombies can still walk on 2 legs is also questionable but that would go too deep.

 

Suggestion:

Zombies can smell/hear/see

(randomise that pls, given their rotten/missing noses or ears/eyes, are those even still working ?? benefit of doubt)

 

In that regard, why not just let them wander (with a certain ranged noise radar) and if they stumble over some noise they get attracted and stick around for a while.

Should there be any other signal, they can get a ping to simulate a possible sight/hear or smell, that ping tho should be seen as a ranged scan that can fail if the hiding player is not moving/smelling and out of sight.

 

Given the situation of a player hiding from multiple zombies eventually surrounded, he would have run or make a stand as zombies that found a player could make a noise and thus inform other zombies to follow suit. Sure, not calling i found food, but honestly, i would not expect them to have any selfishness in their rotting brains left, as such following their instinct of being happy they found food they would most likely make a noise and start attacking.

 

In regards of attacking, line of sight is key, if they can see a player through a gap, that gap needs to be made bigger.

If there is a pit, well it needs to be passed, the first ones may try and fail, but the later ones would certainly have the advantage there (depending on the depth of the pit).

If no sight, and only a direction, well .. humans would go and find a way around ... zombies do not think, they could try to break through and if that is not giving a result and the noise is still keeping their attention, they could move slightly to try the wall aside the one they tried. Eventually going back and forth between them and tearing down the wall (or their arms... if realism is involved).

 

 

 

All this said, humans are not stupid and knowing or at least predicting and studying how zeds behave would fast lead to a playstyle that would make it impossible for zombies to succeed, it's a game with advantage for the player after all (Infinite lives).

 

Playing a game that has zombies that behave like what we would expect (how do we know what to expect anyway), would be a simulator.

How realistic that simulation is would be based on how realistic the capabilities of the players are as well.

So the more the player get's to be able to do, the more the zombies would fall in disadvantage.

 

To make the game challenging again, the programmers pimp(hehe .. fitting wordplay here) the zombies AI and here we are.

Zombies that make you build a base to try and trick them, just so they need to get "pimped" again to keep the challenge up.

 

Long story short, see Zeds as monsters, we have no clue how intelligent zeds are, can be, but when something tries to kill you for food or fun, don't underestimate them

 

Good luck out there and happy hunting.

 

@developers: I would not mind having more realistic zeds in regard of what i mentioned earlier, but i understand that the game needs to have a certain challenge. It's after all not a simulator, but something to keep the player busy with a sense of danger and horror. Thanks for the game.

[Data]

Z’s shouldn’t have the brain power of Einstein otherwise they wouldn’t be z’s,

 

they should just smell/sense you and make a direct line to you,

 

and not be working out the best blue print structural way to get to you, otherwise they are not zombies are they, they are supposed to be dumb f**k dead things, that have just an urge to eat you

 

giving them super brain working out powers, just doesn’t make sense

[HungryZombie]

Z’s shouldn’t have the brain power of Einstein otherwise they wouldn’t be z’s,

 

they should just smell/sense you and make a direct line to you,

 

and not be working out the best blue print structural way to get to you, otherwise they are not zombies are they, they are supposed to be dumb f**k dead things, that have just an urge to eat you

 

giving them super brain working out powers, just doesn’t make sense

 

I agree with you here. The Dev's have commented that the AI is a work in progress and they made it now to be as "smart" as possible for other enemy types. Future releases will have more normal zombie type behavior.