zztong

I'm looking forward to Wednesday and the RWG session. I've seen previous sessions and the Q&A seems to be a "jump ball" of quick questions that quickly scroll past. Longer questions are likely to get lost in the shuffle. I thought I'd follow khzmusik's lead and ask questions here. Maybe they'll help TFP folks prepare for the session. Some of these just confirm fundamentals (as I understand them) based on what we learned in the Dev Diary forum and other Dev videos. The RWG will create a Settlement (city, small town, etc) with 1 or more Districts (city center, commercial, industrial, residential, etc), right? We can define custom Settlement types, right? If so, how? Perhaps via XML? District Tiles are placed contiguously, right? That is, they're placed next to each other, not scattered in a patchwork manner about the Settlement. Does the RWG ever repeat District types in a Settlement? That is, could it decide to have two City Center districts? We can define custom Districts, right? If so, how? Perhaps via XML? Can we tell the RWG that a custom District should have a minimum size, maximum size? Can we specify dimensions? For instance, can I tell the RWG that my custom district should be 1x3 minimum and 2x6 maximum? (Min X = 1, Max X = 2, Min Z = 1, Max Z = 3) I'm asking because not all potential Districts I can envision would be major parts of a city and I'd hate to see one end up being 1/3 of a City. Another reason is a prefab modder might build out a District over time and during early releases nobody will want to see a sprawling but highly repetitive District. A Tile's filename tells the RWG which District it represents and the expected road support (rwg_tile_CityCenter_corner_XYZ_01), right? Or, is there some other indicator? What does the RWG do if you do not provide all of the expected road geometries? That is, what if you provide cap, corner, straight, and t, but do NOT provide intersection? Is the District considered invalid? Do you get a "missing Tile" error? Do you get some other District's intersection? Does the District just not contain any intersections? A Tile can contain 0 or more Markers, right? (I understand a Tile without Markers is probably not the expected use.) A Marker can represent the placement of a POI or the placement of a Part, right? The RWG chooses a POI to place in a Marker by matching the District name with the value of the POI's XML tag for Zoning and the X,Z dimensions of the POI. Early demonstrations had the X,Z dimensions matching exactly, but there was some talk of matching within some range down to the next standard size, or something like that. Which way did it turn out? Is it perhaps an option when you define the Marker? What does the RWG use any other factor to determine placement of Parts? That is, if a Tile has a 10x10 Part where the creator envisioned something like a Food Truck, what keeps something like a 1x1 mailbox from being placed there? Whatever the RWG mechanism is for picking Parts to place, is it aware of its proximity to the edge of the Tile? If so, could it pick Parts smartly depending on if the part will connect to another Tile of the same type of District, or not? That may be confusing, so here's an example. Assuming I am creating my own District and I want to make sure that all of my District's Tiles have a sidewalk that connects 20 blocks in from each corner. (Kind of like how TFP standardized the location and size of road connections.) This way, the connections to other Tiles in my District will have that sidewalk connectivity between Tiles. Of course, I cannot expect other Tiles in other Districts to meet that interface. So, if a Part defined to hit the edge of a Tile could potentially trigger a test of the neighboring Tile to see if it was from the same District. If not, then pick a non-connecting Part, like grass or air, versus a connecting Part being sidewalk. Without that test, I'll end up with sidewalks that just end, or run into buildings, extend towards the Wilderness, etc. Phew. (This is kind of like khzmusik's last question, but my thinking was coming at it from a different angle.) IIRC, we can only put POI Markers at Ground Level on a Tile. Does that mean that Part Markers have to be at Ground Level too? Can we put Markers for Parts inside a POI, or are Markers/Parts solely a capability of a Tile? Above, khzmusik asked if a Tile could have a Sleeper Volume. If so, what happens if we define a Sleeper Volume on a Tile in a position such that it completely envelopes a Part? What if it completely envelops a POI with its own Sleeper Volumes? What if a Sleeper Volume partially envelops a Part or POI? Will the resulting overlapping Volumes cause problems? Can Parts on a Tile include Quests? For instance, a tier 1 "Find the Bag" quest where the bag is atop a billboard? That's probably too easy, but does the tech support it? How do you keep "Buried Supplies" quests from landing at locations that intermix with Tile features, like sewers and Parts? Or, is that kind of complication part of the charm? (They buried the supplies under the water tower? Gee thanks.) If you're looking for a suggestion for integrating Tiles and new Quests, consider a block that can be placed at a location in a Tile that indicates a "Defend Location" quest is supported at that location. Then traders could send players to that location. Maybe its a Quest that can only be triggered at night. When triggered, a couple of (scaled) waves of Zs attack based on the number of players and their levels within some established distance from the quest trigger. Maybe the Z's triggered have their awareness heightened when they spawn. I think that suggestion involves features already in the game.

Focus on this line... Exception: Cannot find default hubs KingGen 13.1 had a new format to its configuration file. If you're reusing a list of POIs from an earlier version then you probably don't have an @hubs section. If you're making a custom configuration, then you need to start with a current KingGen configuration and paste in any POI definitions that you want to add.

Note this part... "Cannot find default hubs." I believe this is saying it cannot find the "@hubs" part of your configuration file. If so, there are two possibilities: 1. I suspect you're pointing KG at the file I provided with the modlet. That's not how you use it. What my file contains is the text that you have to paste into a KG POI list that includes all of the rest of the world and POI configuration that you want. You see, I cannot know what other POIs you have, so I cannot provide you a complete file ready for KG. I can only provide you the details for my POIs. 2. When you edited your KG file that controls world generation, you somehow have messed up the structure of that file such that it cannot find the "@hubs" part. Since you should have just been pasting the suggestions found in my configuration file onto the end of your own file, you might have instead pasted my suggestions into the wrong place in your file.

Correct. Only the built-in RWG uses the rwgmixer.xml file. Correct. The build-in RWG is willing and able to read POI XML files and binary files to collect information about each POI related to placement such as zoning, size, rotation, offset, and more. Generators like KingGen and NitroGen prefer to have all of that pre-processed into one data file. You use a tool to build that file, assemble that file manually, or edit a file produced by their tool. Not that I'm aware of, but POI lists only appear to be about 1/3 of that file. I suppose it is possible some part of a running game needed info about biomes, stamper nodes, and whatever else is down there.

Version 19.6-ZZ005 has been released. There are now 60 POIs and 9 Decorations (minor content, like POIs). New in this release: Cave_01, KZTV_01, Skyscraper_01, Skyscraper_01_destroyed, Store_09, Store_10, Warehouse_01. The contents of this modlet will also be in the next CompoPack expected to be released with A20. I do plan to support and expand on this modlet in A20. (I'd start now if I could.) I don't envision any new content for A19 after this.

I'm curious what design conventions/rules TFP have regarding POI design, especially any related to integrating with the new Tile approach. For instance, since POIs can abut each other on the new Tiles, do you develop POIs with structures that go right to the edge of the POI's area? If so, then two POI structures walls could touch each other. That can be desirable (common in big cities) but also undesirable (a tall building next to fortress walls). Another "for instance", do you always assume the Tile provides parking spaces and thus leave parking spaces out of your POIs? I'm curious about the development of Parts and the interface with Tiles. Do you have a way to signal what "type" of part it is that might affect placement on a Tile? For instance, if the Tile is looking to place a Part where the marker is 6x14 and the Tile designer is thinking "any billboard", do you as a POI designer have some way of indicating the type of Part you built is a billboard? (Perhaps via the filename, XML, or some other mechanism?) Are Parts developed like POIs in the Prefab Editor? If so, can Parts have Zombie Volumes and Quests? Example: A billboard with a quest satchel and a vulture.

Release 19.6-ZZ004 fixes a problem with zztong_TFP_Cemetary_01.

I'm speculating here as I have no direct knowledge of how textures work, how their runtime environment works, etc. ... I suspect it is desirable to load up all textures into memory (perhaps a "texture cache") on the video card. There would be a finite amount of space for that which depends on the video card in question. If that cache were exhausted I'm not sure what would happen, perhaps the runtime environment would have to juggle textures in/out of the cache. and perhaps affect performance. Paint textures would be some of the game's textures. Mods adding more paint textures would compete for space at some point. ... And again, that's speculation. Certainly we would all enjoy more paintable textures.

I see a Prefab called aaa_theater_plays in A19.x that doesn't look complete and isn't part of world generation. It has a really good start. I'd love to see how TFP finish it.

Version 19.6-ZZ003 has been released. There are 9 new original POIs. There are 4 classic TFP POIs that have been recovered from A17 and brought up to date. This modlet now contains a total of 57 POIs. The contents of this modlet will also be in the next CompoPack expected to be released with A20.

Which version of KingGen and what errors or issues did you see? You are copying/pasting the contents of the file I give you into whatever larger file you're making, right? The file I give you won't stand alone because it doesn't include vanilla POIs, Traders, etc.

An updated version of this modlet is now available: A19.5-ZZ002 POIs Included: zztong_Apartment_Bldg_01 zztong_Apartment_Bldg_01_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Apartment_Bldg_02 zztong_Apartment_Bldg_02_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Bar_Pool_Hall_01 zztong_Brownstones_01 zztong_Cabin_Fort_01 (Updated in ZZ002) zztong_Drive_In_Movie_01 zztong_Drive_Thru_01 zztong_EMS_01 zztong_Farmers_Market_01 (Updated in ZZ002) zztong_House_01 zztong_House_02 zztong_House_03 (New in ZZ002) zztong_KZMB_Radio_01 zztong_KZMB_Radio_01_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Law_Offices_01 zztong_Lumber_Yard_01 zztong_Masonry_01 zztong_Motocross_01 zztong_Office_Bldg_01 zztong_Office_Bldg_01_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Office_Bldg_02 zztong_Office_Bldg_03 zztong_Office_Bldg_03_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Pharmacy_01 zztong_Pharmacy_01_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Propane_01 zztong_Remnant_House_01 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Restaurant_01 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Shelter_01 zztong_Shelter_01_destroyed (New in ZZ002) zztong_Solar_Farm_01 zztong_Stone_Quarry_01 zztong_Storm_Cellar_01 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Strip_Mall_01 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Strip_Mall_02 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Survivor_Site_Urban_01 zztong_Trailer_Park_01 zztong_Wind_Turbine_01 Decorations Inlcuded: zztong_Hunters_Trap_01 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Hunters_Trap_02 (New in ZZ002) zztong_Mass_Grave_01 (Updated in ZZ002) zztong_Mass_Grave_02 (Updated in ZZ002)

There is a known issue with zztong_Cabin_Fort_01. (Thanks to baronlandau on NexusMods for reporting it. There is a layer of incorrectly filled land below the POI that makes the entire POI collapse into an empty lot. This will be fixed by the ZZ002 update, coming soon. Sorry for any inconveniences.

I'd be okay for it just to function, but if you want to give it a purpose, perhaps let it just cook food a bit more quickly. Or really, just cooking based on electricity instead or fuel is pretty good by itself.

I don't mind the idea of a climbing zombie, but I worry using the normal zombies will make that attribute too common. Would it mean that a player in their lower levels would deal exclusively with climbing zombies, or would this attribute emerge after a certain game stage? Or, would this attribute be applied to only a certain percentage of normal zombies? Thankfully, military Z's aren't parachuting from planes or rappelling from helicopters.

I do like the idea of an Eclipse making for an unpredictable horde, though they seem to happen in real life something like every 2.5 years at any given location. Maybe if they happened in game approximately every (7*7*7) 343 days, or even just randomly with a low chance. Perhaps unusually think storm clouds (perhaps as a result of the nuclear detonations) that black out out the sun could happen approximately every (7*7) 49 days, or even just randomly with a modest chance. Perhaps just normal thunderstorms make for some semi-night activity among some Zombies?

Oh, the little yellow dot when there's only one (or a few) Z's left?

For my education, what is the effect of both settings?

You're certainly correct that there are some small campuses with a few buildings. The university for which I work has branch campuses that are as small as 1, 2, and 4 buildings. I didn't mean to suggest what you propose isn't realistic, just that I didn't see it as a way to implement what I had envisioned. Quite frankly, what I had envisioned really doesn't fit the game's "scale" and the campus I work at is bigger than most 7D2D cities. Your goal/vision is a better fit.

I do like the observatory. It looks great. I've thought some about how best to make a University as a project, and concluded that my preference would be to make each building and things like pedestrian greens their own POIs and then hope that some RWG tool would allow a group of POIs to be defined. I'm thinking of like Nitrogen where a "farm" designation on a POI gets it selected for "farm" placement, typically four farm POIs together. When I tried to conceive of one as a single POI, I kept ending up with something more like a small community college. Of course, my perspective could be off. I work at a University that has over 100 buildings on the main campus.

THIS MODLET HAS BEEN UPDATED. The current Version is A21.2-ZZ021 (As of 21 APR 2024) See release notes for later versions found within this discussion. I've made a collection of original prefabs (POIs and Decorations) available as a modlet. It does not contain any custom blocks, resources, objects, etc. It depends only on the vanilla game and introduces no other requirements or dependencies. My goal is to provide semi-plain "meat and potatoes" POIs of an acceptable quality and in enough quantity to fill gaps in world generation and make a meaningful dent in player demands for variety. I hope you'll find these to be good enough to help round out the nooks and crannies of your generated worlds. The modlet is configured to plug into the Vanilla game. ZZTong-Prefabs Download at NexusMods Version ZZ020 only included a bug fix for biomes.xml. Included in Version ZZ021: POIs Included: zztong_adot_01 zztong_apartment_01 zztong_apartment_02 zztong_apartment_03 zztong_balloon_safari_01 zztong_bar_pool_01 zztong_biowaste_dump_01 zztong_brownstones_01 zztong_buried_treasure_02 zztong_cabin_fort_01 zztong_car_show_01 zztong_car_wash_01 zztong_cave_01 zztong_cement_plant_01 zztong_containers_01 zztong_crater_01 zztong_delos_oldwest_01 zztong_dog_park_01 zztong_drive_in_movie_01 zztong_drive_thru_01 zztong_electrical_substation_01 zztong_ems_01 zztong_farm_01 zztong_farm_02 zztong_farm_03 zztong_farm_04 zztong_farm_05 zztong_farm_06 zztong_farm_07 zztong_farm_08 zztong_farmers_market_01 zztong_field_aloe_01 zztong_field_animals_01 zztong_field_blueberry_01 zztong_field_chickens_01 zztong_field_coffee_01 zztong_field_corn_01 zztong_field_cotton_01 zztong_field_fish_01 zztong_field_hop_01 zztong_field_mushroom_01 zztong_field_potato_01 zztong_field_pumpkin_01 zztong_field_yucca_01 zztong_fieldday_01 zztong_garage_01 zztong_gateway_filler_01 zztong_gateway_filler_02 zztong_gateway_filler_03 zztong_gyroport_01 zztong_house_01 zztong_house_02 zztong_house_03 zztong_house_04 zztong_house_05 zztong_house_06 zztong_house_07 zztong_house_08 zztong_house_09 zztong_house_10 zztong_house_11 zztong_house_12 zztong_house_13 zztong_house_14 zztong_house_15 zztong_house_16 zztong_house_17 zztong_house_18 zztong_house_19 zztong_house_20 zztong_house_21 zztong_house_22 zztong_intersection_01 zztong_intersection_02 zztong_intersection_03 zztong_intersection_04 zztong_kzmb_radio_01 zztong_kztv_01 zztong_law_offices_01 zztong_lot_vacant_01 zztong_lot_vacant_02 zztong_lot_vacant_03 zztong_lot_vacant_04 zztong_lot_vacant_05 zztong_lot_vacant_06 zztong_lumber_yard_01 zztong_masonry_01 zztong_mass_grave_01 zztong_mass_grave_02 zztong_motocross_01 zztong_ntt_hq_01 zztong_ntt_hub_01 zztong_office_building_01 zztong_office_building_02 zztong_office_building_03 (revised) zztong_oil_pump_jack_01 zztong_pharmacy_01 zztong_political_party_hq_01 zztong_presidio_museum_01 zztong_propane_01 zztong_pump_substation_01 zztong_ranch_01 zztong_ranger_hq_01 zztong_rebirth_01 zztong_red_rocket_01 zztong_remnant_house_01 zztong_remnant_house_02 zztong_restaurant_01 zztong_restaurant_02 zztong_restaurant_03 zztong_roadside_rest_01 zztong_scout_lodge_01 zztong_shelter_01 zztong_sheriff_01 zztong_skyscraper_01 zztong_slabhouse_01 zztong_solar_farm_01 zztong_solar_farm_02 zztong_stone_quarry_01 zztong_storage_01 zztong_storage_02 zztong_store_s_01 zztong_store_s_02 zztong_store_s_03 zztong_store_s_04 zztong_store_s_05 zztong_store_xs_01 zztong_store_xs_02 zztong_store_xs_03 zztong_store_xs_04 zztong_store_xs_05 zztong_store_xs_06 zztong_store_xs_07 zztong_store_xs_08 zztong_store_xs_09 zztong_store_xs_10 zztong_store_xs_11 zztong_store_xs_12 zztong_store_xs_13 zztong_store_xs_14 zztong_store_xs_15 zztong_store_xs_16 zztong_stormwater_detention_pond_01 zztong_strip_mall_01 zztong_strip_mall_02 zztong_survivor_base_ruin_01 zztong_survivor_site_urban_01 zztong_tfp_apartment_adobe_01 zztong_tfp_army_barracks_01 zztong_tfp_cemetery_01 zztong_tfp_docks_01 zztong_tfp_docks_05 zztong_tfp_house_new_04 zztong_tfp_prison_01 zztong_tfp_ranger_station_01 zztong_tfp_school_k6_01 zztong_tfp_settlement_01 zztong_tfp_skyscraper_02 zztong_trailer_01 zztong_trailer_02 zztong_trailer_park_01 zztong_trailer_park_02 zztong_trailer_park_03 zztong_trailer_park_04 zztong_truck_park_01 zztong_truck_stop_01 zztong_vault_k9_01 zztong_warehouse_01 zztong_warehouse_02 zztong_warehouse_03 zztong_warehouse_04 zztong_warehouse_05 zztong_watering_hole_01 zztong_watering_hole_02 zztong_wind_turbine_01 zztong_wind_turbine_02 Tiles Included: rwg_tile_commercial_intersection_zztong_01 rwg_tile_countryresidential_cap_zztong_01 rwg_tile_countryresidential_corner_zztong_01 rwg_tile_countryresidential_corner_zztong_02 rwg_tile_countryresidential_straight_zztong_01 rwg_tile_countryresidential_t_zztong_01 rwg_tile_downtown_intersection_zztong_01 rwg_tile_gateway_intersection_zzttong_01 rwg_tile_gateway_intersection_zzttong_02 rwg_tile_gateway_intersection_zzttong_03 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_01 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_02 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_03 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_04 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_05 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_06 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_07 rwg_tile_gateway_straight_zztong_08 rwg_tile_gateway_t_zztong_01 rwg_tile_gateway_t_zztong_02 rwg_tile_residential_cap_zztong_01 rwg_tile_residential_corner_zztong_01 rwg_tile_residential_intersection_zztong_01 rwg_tile_residential_straight_zztong_01 rwg_tile_residential_straight_zztong_02 rwg_tile_residential_t_zztong_01 rwg_tile_residential_t_zztong_02 rwg_tile_rural_cap_zztong_01 rwg_tile_rural_corner_zztong_01 rwg_tile_rural_corner_zztong_02 rwg_tile_rural_intersection_zztong_01 rwg_tile_rural_straight_zztong_01 rwg_tile_rural_t_zztong_01 Decorations Included: zztong_buried_treasure_01 zztong_cactus_01 zztong_cactus_02 zztong_cactus_03 zztong_cactus_04 zztong_cactus_05 zztong_grave_01 zztong_grave_02 zztong_hunters_trap_01 zztong_hunters_trap_02 zztong_mystery_01 zztong_mystery_02 zztong_mystery_03 zztong_oil_pump_01 zztong_rubble_01 zztong_rubble_02 zztong_rubble_03 zztong_rubble_04 zztong_rubble_05 zztong_rubble_06 zztong_rubble_07 zztong_rubble_08 zztong_rubble_09 zztong_rubble_10 zztong_rubble_11 zztong_rubble_12 zztong_rubble_13 zztong_rubble_14 zztong_rubble_15 zztong_rubble_16 zztong_rubble_17 zztong_rubble_18 zztong_rubble_19 zztong_rubble_20 zztong_rubble_21 zztong_rubble_22 zztong_rubble_23 zztong_rubble_24 zztong_rubble_25 zztong_rubble_26 zztong_rubble_27 zztong_rubble_28 zztong_rubble_29 zztong_rubble_30 zztong_rubble_31 zztong_ruined_horde_base_01 zztong_ruined_horde_base_02 zztong_tent_01 zztong_tent_02 zztong_tent_03 zztong_tent_04 zztong_tent_05 zztong_tete1805_deco_01 Pictures available on Nexus Mods. (See link, above.)

Oh, I clearly didn't understand the way things work. I was thinking they all used the same size grid. I'm also not sure what happens if you get a POI that is larger than the grid. Does it then ignore the POI? Or perhaps puts the POI on the outside edge of the settlement? Or does it make an exception to the grid size? Or...? I think I forgot to ask about resources underground, like Coal, Iron, etc. I dug around some and didn't find any. Was I blind or that an up-coming thing? Sorry if I've somehow overlooked a webpage or post with a roadmap or project plan. I'd happily look there to understand where you're going.

I have no idea, really. I need to play with it more to get an idea of the difference between the results at different sizes and it probably is also a factor of how the generator tries to place large POIs into smaller grids. I was just thinking a common difference between a city and a bedroom community is the size of the city blocks and I was asking the question to kind of probe your thinking, understand your vision, and get an idea of where things are going. Oh, that's interesting. I certainly didn't anticipate there being no rural roads by design.

KingGen works pretty well and certainly is fast. I like it. Is this where you'd like thoughts and feedback? On one of my test worlds, I spawned inside a POI. Luckily, there were no Z's in the room, but the door was locked. I'm assuming that was unintentional, but it's kind of an interesting start. I wonder if anyone has thought about POIs specifically as starting locations. I can choose "Single City" or not. I find myself wanting to pick the number of cities, number of towns, and number of villages, or in some way influence the numbers of settlements. I you pick "Single City" could you further have the option of locating that city in the middle of the map? Will there be "western" towns? I can choose "Grid Size" for cities, towns, and villages. Could it be different for each? I need to play with this more and see how it changes the flavor of those settlements. I noticed rural POIs aren't connected by dirt roads. I'm guessing that's upcoming feature? I kind of like that some rural POIs aren't connected by roads. Maybe if/when dirt roads appear there could be a small chance no road would be generated to it.

I'm seeing the same issues -- disappearing inventories that reappear later and duplicated vehicles -- on 19.4 (b3) via the experimental branch. I'm playing on the Not-A-Gamer Gaming long term server. Sometimes I can just wander a ways away and come back and get a different inventory, such as the current one or one that was current a day ago. Sometimes I come back to an empty inventory, or maybe a super-quick glimpse of items in the inventory and then it looks empty. I had one misadventure when I died and when I arrived at my bedroll (at my base) the vehicle I had driven there was back at base with me. So I drove it back to collect my backpack and the vehicle I had parked there was gone. So, I figured there was some bug that transported my vehicle back with me. Alas, a few real life days later and I noticed a copy of the vehicle where I died was sitting there. Another observation. Start with a vehicle showing its inventory. Remove the inventory. Now take the empty vehicle into your inventory. I get both a vehicle in my inventory and the vehicle itself still sitting where it was parked and it is holding a copy of the starting inventory. Everything duplicated. The most annoying, frustrating thing is when you load up a vehicle's inventory to go work on a project and then that inventory disappears for days.