theFlu

Yup, and yup. It used to be an awesome food source, I think 20 food, good HP recovery, and no real drawbacks, stacked to.. way too high. Now it provides an easy way to get glue. I wouldn't be surprised if it found itself in some high-tier cooking recipes in the future.

I'm not entirely sure if it was exactly this most recent patch (19.5 b60), but the Tier 5 buildings play awesomely well right now. I've been running arcade-style run&gun through some of them and so far it's been smooth as silk. So: Well done, Team, and a sincere Thank you! As that is my main point, I'll hide a description in a spoiler for anyone curious:

Hah, thanks; I didn't exactly know what to ask, but that was more than I would've asked for .. O(n^2), yeah, that seems like an issue. Then again, reading the transcript, it's just a hard limit of "less than", so they'll just need to solve it for the largest one, the small ones will be pretty instant ... And fire/ban anyone who proposes adding the ability to do larger maps ...

@Roland I seem to remember you had something to with teaching math, help a virus out here...?

As long as the weight allows, nothing stopping one from turning it into a tunnel base, walls on each side, roof on top. I think I've seen one on the tubes... If needed, extend the support wall downwards, although I have no idea how far down the support faces will carry, may be a limit somewhere. Nor am I going to guess how it will fail .. Your weights are a bit odd for the current iteration, atm they're 5, 10 and 20 for wood, stone and iron; but close enough for the concept.

Had to go back and verify.. all these poor innocent wood frames The f17 was the first block to get destroyed, only 16 blocks left - which is equal to the 13 free-hanging iron blocks in the horizontal case.

Sure, waiting for 20 is likely smart; I doubt they're redoing the system though, so getting a grasp of the concepts wouldn't go to waste. As for how the pillar thing applies; the four faces of the pillar will each carry their worth of weight (iron types carry 300, 300x4 allows for that 1200). The same applies for vertical support faces that are supporting the same structure, in this case the dirt-dirt-stone combination all add to the maximum mass of the structure above. Vertically the 14 block limit seems a bit finicky, I just stacked 28 wood blocks to the side of a wooden pillar from three support faces. It only collapsed once I messed with the bottom by adding support underneath and then removing - it got cut neatly at the 14th block. EDITs: of, code editor looks bad, and a spoiler spoils it ... nevermind the editing ...

Right below those examples "WARNING: A lot of this has changed since Alpha 13 and may not be relevant anymore." It's completely outdated. Some of the concepts apply, but none of the numbers. For your question mark.. I started to answer "how much does dirt carry (20 weight = 4 wood blocks = 2 stone blocks = 1 iron block) and ended up giving a condensed explanation of a part of the SI system. It's likely a little dense to read, just load up a new navezgame game and start messing with the creative menu.

All the sides of all blocks attached to bedrock are carrying the attached weight. You can create a massive stone platform on one steel support block surrounded by 4 steel blocks to spread the load. (A single steel support attached to stone faces would be limited to the carry capacity of stone. Adding four steel blocks to the sides of the support increases the amount of stone-steel carrying points threefold, allowing you to carry roughly 1200 weight of stone, or 120 blocks) As such, the plates will carry from the stone layer just fine, the dirt layers add a little, but not really significant (20 weight per face)

What is this 8 block limit...? I think I've seen it mentioned before, but .. it's not a thing? Iron frames (and steel blocks) can carry the weight of 15 iron blocks, but will fail an SI test at the end of a line when attaching the 15th block collapsing both 14th and 15th block (a 14/15 block SI limit, and it seems to still(/again?) be the case that a player will count as the 15th block, causing the 14th to collapse when stepped on). Stone can carry 12 stone blocks, and the whole line will collapse with the addition of the 13th (weight failure as expected at the carrying end). Wood can carry the weight of 8 wood blocks, and fails similarly to stone above. If this is the limit you're using, then it wouldn't apply as the fort in question seems to be using stone(concrete) blocks? Just tested in 19.5 b60.

Heh, you don't even need that half the time... I've been playing arcade at the T5 buildings, and on top of Dishong, I was surprised to see that stealthing on the roof in bright daylight, some of the zeds just ran past me to stand there, after I had already shot them. I was crouched by mistake, so it really took me by surprise.. (Agi spec with 5/5 stealth points, military armor, no mufflers - might've been standing in the shadow of the antenna tower)

Complexity in building? You shovel some mats, maybe show them to a magical Mixer, and then stack blocks on one another..? There's no complexity there. And why would there be, it's just a mandatory part of a base-building game? (It's about 90% joke, don't get yer panties in a twist... )

While getting used to is part of the boredom, I was trying to make those changes Active. As in, whether you know how to treat the injury or not, and whether you use a cure or not, it will change your behaviour in the game. Or punish you for not respecting it. I see that as more fun; if you can achieve a "playable injury", now you have a little more complexity in the game. Minigame for cupboards? Nah, I'm good, way too common an event and would just be annoying. Minigame for lockpicking? Beats staring at a safe for 20 secs with nothing to do ... wouldn't be amazing in six months, but it would be Better in six months assuming you can save some of the time.

Lol, talk about coincidences.. you're literally talking to a guy who hasn't eaten fiber for two and a half years.. carnivore ftw Yes, sure, exactly... the remedies produce a solution to a challenge, the injuries Are the challenge... except they're not really challenging and the remedies are basically the same, "loot a couple med boxes". Improvements could be made.. How would I make some of these more interesting? Well, I'll draft something on the spot.. (poor quality warning) Laceration... doesn't drop your max health, but makes you bleed sporadically on it's own. Quite often even, so you might even need to pull down curtains from your environment to control the bleed. This would "color" your environment a little different, you want to know where the cloth is. Make the suture kit calm it down to what it is now; getting hit will cause bleeds with the high chance of tearing you stitches and putting you back to square one. Duration couple hours without sutures, half an hour with. Bleeds.. let them bleed. Slow loss of life, but at least a couple minutes long without bandages. Gives a nice sense of urgency since you know you'll have to deal with it; note that cloth is essentially everywhere, you'll just need to grab it. This means you'll really want to stitch that laceration. Scrapes... they lower your max health, one of these might be useful .. but I would make this the one that you can instantly heal.. it's not a bleeder, and if you cover the scratches with cloth and antibacterials, you're pretty much golden. Unless you want to go for a "swapping bandages" mechanic, but that seems a little overkill. Concussion.. I'm not even sure what it actually does, I could check, but .. ehh. Make it blur your vision sporadically, dependent on your stamina state.. the lower the stamina, the blacker it goes and the longer it lasts. (You know you're not supposed to strain yourself with head trauma) Making it cause trouble navigating and fighting. The effect goes away temporarily with pain killers, but the debuff doesn't. Getting hit has an increased chance of stunning you whether or not medicated. - side note, make driving into a tree on a motorized two-wheeler actually hurt ... Fatigue .. why is this a combat injury? Tighten the screws a lot on the food supply, make being hungry cause increasing fatigue over time.. needing some Real Good foods to slowly recover. Vitamins help, maybe a lot, maybe just temporarily. Yes, you may be starving all the time, but you don't have to make it completely debilitating; being well fed would then be a buff for the early game until the inevitable overabundance kicks in. Sprains .. they're all right as is, could use a little love, but we can't choose to use "the other hand" for the blade for obvious reasons. Broken bones, might copy the idea from earlier.. make it fall-only, require a cast and a friendly NPC to set, and require a crutch to move decently for couple game days. Maybe maybe maybe you can inflict one on the second-to-last hit to land (as in, on any hit that would kill you if doubled in effect). That's not a huge improvement on anything, but might demand your attention and affect your game play in reasonable ways...

That quite a pessimistic take, and to be honest, I think it defeats itself neatly. There's a whole genre of survival games that revolve around those mechanics, and a group of people seem to enjoy the games. If the mechanics were completely uninteresting, then they would've been cut from the genre; so I'd argue they must have some kind of internal intrigue. And whether we see them as "just a mandatory part of a weird genre" or "interesting game play", since we have them - and I assume "must have them" - then it stands to reason to make them .. significant? As interesting as possible for the very least. As for your example of hunger, TFP have created 4 mostly separate (but somewhat interdependent) solutions for food; buying, farming, hunting, looting. Cooking combines them all, sure, but each of the components is largely self-sufficient if you adjust your game play around it. They're doing their best to make it interesting, and I'd say the current system is pretty good. It mostly suffers from becoming practically obsolete with high tier recipes and a visit to Bob's Boars with no spoilage.

"Though boring" is one bit that disagrees with "fun" And I know the remedies and how to find them, but it's good info to repeat on the forum.... Sure, you can avoid getting Hit quite actively and that's pretty key for the entirety of the game play. But that game mechanic is already achieved by the standard HP system. The injury system doesn't really add anything interesting to that. - The same armor that reduces your damage taken reduces your chances of getting injured. No clinical difference. You don't even get to make significant decisions there, since the effect sizes on armor pieces are tiny. - "Not taking injuries while at full health" just makes medicating early a little more important, but medicating early is a good idea already. - Breaking a leg from falling... yeah, agree there, completely under the player's control. This one I was thinking about after that previous post, with regards to the severity of the injury: IF every injury was the result of a "proper failure" by the player (not just a vulture spawning around a corner and making a silent swoop on you), the injuries could be made really punishing. The leg breaks for example, if the only way to get a broken leg was to fall a couple stories, I wouldn't mind having to craft a Crutch to equip as a tool and hobble along at 40-60% speed with it, and at 10% speed without, for a game day or two. (Sure, I might moan, but it Was my own darn fault.) But if it happens randomly when the game throws a spidermonkey at my face, it's a different story. The somewhat random combat injuries (concussions, lacerations, fatigue) are all pretty insignificant and easily cured, but only if the RNG has smiled upon you prior - which makes them a non-issue after day.. 3? Not much you can Do, just how lucky you've been all around.

How can getting hit be fun? Talking about HP loss. It isn't Fun, but it's what makes the game. Without it, well, you might kill a few zeds because they're annoying, but.. you get the point. For injuries/debuffs, they need a function, and a gameplay.. if someone complains that a debuff system isn't "fun", they might not have the entire Game Theory under their belt, but they feel like something is wrong about the system. For me, the injury system is a little too random to be Fun. It has all kinds of right elements, but the overall feeling is .. "Well, that happened. Randomly. Now I'm <slightly slow> for half a day and there's nothing I can do about it." It doesn't really change much, there's not much you can do about it before or after, and the things you Can do are passive and a little un-intuitive (keeping full health, passive armor improvements). Not that I can offer a solution to the issues, it would require making decisions about the game that haven't been made, like "what is it trying to be" ...

I agree, they look great. I think they might actually look too good in a way; they're so detailed and specific that they get repetitive easily. Doesn't help that streamers are literally giving them names as a side-effect... Comparing to something like Terraria or (early) Marios, their repetitive enemies are carbon copies, but it doesn't bother the player as they're mostly just .. "icons". The graphic style allows one to see them as a "class of enemy" and I think that makes the difference. Something like Borderlands has the same bandits all over, but they're not that detailed and a lot of them have their faces covered so they're also more like a class. And then there's a lot of variance to enemy types (beasts and bots and such), grouped as "events" and not intermixed randomly. I hope the bandits will give some variance in that "types"-part, but otherwise I wouldn't mind a little less distinct features for the practically identical zeds. In my eyes, for example, soldiers and cops work just fine, but the posse of "nothing specific mechanically but really distinct in looks zeds" gets odd due to the level of detail.

Impossible. 22 Alpha releases in 16 years? Please make your lies somewhat believable ...

Just a bad day, or are you running some form of Black Propaganda / Streisand Effect -ad campaign for A20 or some such...?

Ehh, krhm.. "FBI! OPEN UP!!" ... also known as "concepts I wouldn't mix" 😆

Did you just try to make us google for child porn? That'll look good on a, say, teacher's search history. Or do you realize that the acronym can be used for non-offending purposes even while trying to refer to the thing that feels offensive...? OK, I did read the rest of the thread as well, but still...

I'm working under the assumption that madmole hasn't changed his mind about the skill trees being "feature complete". Thus, this far I haven't bothered trying to craft an actual idea. That in mind, a "small tweaks" version popped to my mind over this discussion; without further ado. Core point is "give the player Something that feels like it relates to the Attribute from the attribute." As in, make STR give something that feels natural to a strong person. That might require scrapping the weapon-specific headshot multiplier and dismemberment from Attributes. Balance it out in base damage or other skills. Or keep it in, but it doesn't really feel that "sane". I'm putting my draft into a spoiler, just to point out: don't waste your time here, there's nothing to be gained from reading this.. I just had to put it on paper

Yer on a platform called twitch.

How would Roland "doubt he knows about it" if Roland had seen him use it?