meganoth

Naturally all other options are not appreciably better than the overpowered method. In the sense that a survival game has you hunting for scarce resources mostly, getting unlimited water anytime is overpowered. And what surprise, players like overpowered methods. Remember when the fireaxe was a melee weapon as good as any other AND able to chop wood, saving you a belt slot? Many players loved it and there were complaints when the axe was nerfed. Remember the arrow slits that zombies could not traverse at all? Many players loved it and simply made unbreakable bases on horde night. And complained that the obvious bug was fixed. Overpowered items and methods for a game are like sweets for a child. The child will cry and not understand that they are taken away from him, but it is better for it in the long run.

Sure there are logs. The real logfiles talked about here, if there is any question what I am talking about: https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/3956-how-to-report-an-issue-please-read-before-creating-new-threads/ How do you know there is no relevant information in there? Have you read many of them already? Do you know what to look for? I can't promise that anyone here finds a smoking gun in there but I would wager our chances are better.

Oh right, I didn't notice that the antivirus FAQ was only about excluding the directories, not about opening ports at all, though you should do that step anyway. I am a linux-user so I don't even know whether the windows firewall has those ports blocked or not and what you can do about it. @SylenThunder : Do you have a moment to enlighten us? One thing you should do: Use to find out your routers current outside IP adress (also shown in the router webpage surely). Then start your server and ask one of the other players to point a port sniffer program at that address. He should see port 26900 TCP and at least one of the UPD ports in the range 26900 to 26903 being open. If not you failed at forwarding them. If the ports are open but your friends still fail to connect, then maybe it really is time now for you to post full logs, one of the server and one of a client trying to connect and failing.

Ok. That means that you did not forward the server ports in your router. Or the servers firewall blocks the ports. I assume you have your server in your home network, right? Then you need to forward a few server ports in your router. The ports are (if you kept them at default) 26900 TCP and 26900-26903 UDP. This part is different for all kinds of routers, more information is in https://community.7daystodie.com/topic/3998-support-faq-information-and-common-solutions/ Especially the info under "What are the system requirements for a dedicated server?" is important for you, there is a link to a page where you can get info about opening ports on all router brands. And " Why are you telling me to exclude the program from my Antivirus software? " gives you info how to handle your PCs firewall so that it doesn't block the ports. If you do that, players should be able to join without steamnetworking and your latency should drop. Another thing: WLAN is generally not the best idea when playing networked games and especially bad for a server. If you have your server on WLAN, change that. If you or your friends have their client PCs on WLAN, well, it works most of the time, but if they have the option to connect them via wire(especially if they live in a densly populated area) it would be a good idea.

Then you probably either use up too much stamina with your playstyle or you don't create good food. If all you eat is grilled meat but work in the mines and run around in heavy armor you just didn't adapt to your playstyle. I usually eat something once or twice a day (I think? I don't really notice it) Nonetheless good idea to mod if you just don't like it. It does sound very linear. And I think it would be good if the game had a value "price-multiplier" in the XMLs. The trader would actually carry stuff that is ahead of your progression, but multiply the price of those items with "price-multiplier" * ("level above"+1). Price-multiplier could be something like 0.5. I.e. the trader would have a premium on the "better" stuff. Result: When you are usually finding quality 2 AKs tops, you could buy a AK of quality 3 at price * 1.5, quality 4 at price * 2, quality 5 at price * 2.5 (compared to what they cost now).

What Star69 said. And: Don't confuse server FPS with client FPS. If you see 20 FPS on the server that is totally fine, you don't need more. Only if it goes below 20 you should worry. I can't tell you if you are doing anything wrong when stopping or saving the server when you don't tell me how you stop or save the server.

We would need the complete logfiles of server and client. That small excerpt doesn't tell me anything. The immediate solution is probably deleting the player files. As you had the problem before you probably know that already. Since it happens often and to different players it seems the network or server performance could be the problem. It might also be possible that one particularily weak client makes other players get out of sync(?). If it is network you should check if any or all players connect through steamnetworking instead of litenetlib (a complete logfile will tell you). That decreases network performance. Server performance can be checked easily, search for lines with "FPS:" in the server log, the FPS on the server should be at or above 20.

That would only work halfways as other methods would also be limited (to a lower degree) by the stack size. And forcing players to make decisions because it takes less clicks (instead of in-game reasons) is a last-ressort solution, taken if no other solution is possible. A rot system for food is proposed regularily in the forum, garnering positive vibes from one part of the community. And shot down immediately by another part of the community. This is always a very controversial topic. Survival game players tend to appreciate the idea, all others find it horrible. I'd say if you ever want to design a mod with an alternative system, think carefully if you want to include a rot system for water 😉 There surely will be a mod reversing the change immediately after A21 comes out, there always is as people hang onto old stuff often just because they are used to it. Lets hope there will also be mods implementing ideas like yours.

Please post this stuff in the mod authors thread itself, whatever mod you are talking about. If not, the section "Discussion and Requests" is for general modding discussion. Where I moved this thread to

Good points. Some comments: Lowering stack limit is not going to limit water availability for most players, it just makes handling of water more of a grind and boring. Lets say you have 100 empty jars in your base and need water. If you could transport them in one stack you would fill them up at a pond, easy. If they were only stackable to 5 you still would take all of them with you and fill them at the pond, but it would take you an absurd amount of clicks to fill them. But you would do it because you know that you eventually need that water (for food and glue and ...) and need to to that work anyway You are right that water jars in toilets doesn't make much sense. But 7D2D already was already halfways where one item of "jar of water" was just a quant of water with the container abstracted away. Specifically you never did get back a water jar if you used the water, just like you never saw an empty gas can or empty acid bottle even though the icon might mislead you into thinking there was a container. Now if you look at the jar of water you get out of the toilet just as a quantity of water and abstract the container away then water out of toilets makes sense again. Obviously simulating all the fluid containers in the game would be a step towards realism, and especially for the water containers as water is available in ponds and rivers and logically it should not be difficult to just build arbitrary containers for water if you can build a drone! But there are disadvantages down that road too, lots of micromanagement of containers and always the problem that water is essentially endless if you have at least a few reusable containers that you can refill, at least for glue and other production where the water doesn't need to be free of poisons. And if the containers vanish when used there you have your realism break again. So TFP went with abstracting away containers completely because they were already there with all other containers and halfways with water containers. There is no doubt that there could have been other solutions, with different advantages and disadvantages. At the moment they have already finished implementing the "abstracting away" solution, balanced it to some extent and want to drop it on their guinea pigs ( 😉 ), the players, to see what happens. Undoubtedly many players will immediately object and loudly proclaim the decline of western civilization because of this, then some will appreciate the change and others will always protest at the strangeness of it. If too many object then a solution similar to yours might eventually be implemented to appease the masses. We will see.

I think Joel is not involved much in 7D2D anymore because he was working as designer for the game and the design part is practically finished. They have made a list of necessary features the game still needs and programmers and graphics designers are mostly working on those. If testing and feedback shows there are adjustments to be done they will surely do that, but most of the game is largely fixed by now. I.e. we can assume that perks that don't work will get changed (Sexrex is a good example here), but they will surely not add a dozen or more perks because those don't grow on trees. They would need major development that is just not in the cards for a small team that still needs to add bandits and a story. And as can be seen the team has its hand full with that alone.

"sandbox" is not really a well defined term. If you want to have your own brand of sandbox and get rid of just the survival part of 7D2D but keep everything else you will have to mod the game.

You have to ask the question what problem you want to solve with a change. Now in A20 water is unlimited. There usually are bodies of water everywhere, so once you have a few hundred jars you can fill them up after a 10 seconds drive with the minibike. Nobody would be interested in say dew collectors or wells or rainwater collection when the easiest method by far is just doing this 10 second drive to the next pond and fill up those hundreds of jars. And jars can be crafted in the hundreds easily if you have a forge. So these are nice ideas but they would likely be ignored by everyone if implemented. TFP wanted to solve something different: Not how to make additional ways or just a different way to obtain water, but make water a scarce and therefore valuable item. One you would be happy to find in loot, at least in the early and mid game.

This is not the concept stage. TFP reveals features only when they are sure they are in, and they are sure they are in only after they are practically done implementing them. And that means you are too late and too early at the same time. Too late to stop the implementation and too early to give informed feedback to the developers. Informed feedback means feedback about how well it plays out in game, not an assessment of its realism. I am very very sure the developers already know there are big problems with the realism part. Ah, okay, I had thought you meant meaningful choice when you said "player choice". If the water you get from a lake is unlimited then there is no need for any other choice since this is just without any drawbacks. There are players who want more survival than now. Others want less, like you. The devs seem to be in the first group. Simple as that. Thats the danger of a genre mix. It might appeal to a lot more players than a single-genre game, but all players who just want to play less than the whole mix get somewhat frustrated at having to play those other genre-parts. I have a friend who absolutely hates the jump-and-run parts in many POIs. But it is part of the package and he has to endure them to play the rest of the game. Again, the reason for the change was to make water a scarce resource, like you would expect in a survival game. The dew collectors were not the reason for this change they were part of the solution. It seems you want to play a sandbox really and don't like survival. So I would suggest you use creative menue to get yourself the ability to craft whatever you need. Or get a mod that helps you play your way. Any reason why the devs should listen to someone who thinks they are bad developers anyway? 😁 Seriously, I liked most of A17. If you don't, your tastes are very different than mine and the developers obviously. You can't expect the developers to make a game they don't like and instead do one especially for you. You didn't get my point. I was not talking about reality, I was talking about their function in the game. And for progression in the game the forge is as important as the dew collector.

You didn't get the joke. I was hinting at 7D2D already playing on Zarkon-5.

Next project? What about this project? Did you know that there is a city called Navezgane on Zargon-5 ? ( see https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Zargon-5 for more details) 😁

I made a comparison. Avoiding to use the dew collector is as easy or difficult as avoiding the forge. I didn't say anything about HOW difficult it is. In effect if Grue is okay with the forge being in the game he should be okay with the dew collector as well.

Lets address your points then Exactly. Too simple. So it was changed for gameplay reasons. Like all other strangeness the game has you will not notice it once you get used to it. I am not aware that 7D2D got dew collectors because Green Hell has them. At least this supposed reason you invented here is a lot better than the usual "TFP did it to prevent my playstyle" 😉 Which choice exactly is prevented? Like they are able to ignore the forge? You can find and buy water in the world and avoid dew catchers like you can ignore the forge and find or buy forged iron and steel and end products you would build in the forge. Exactly the same, right? The thing is that the magazine system does not force normal players to do anything that they aren't doing already. Are you going through POIs collecting stuff? If yes, you will automatically find magazines. You don't need to change your routine at all if you don't flat out ignore the scavenging part

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Moved to "general support" as I assume you didn't use any mods. First thing you could try is reseting the launcher to default options. There is a button at the lower left saying something like "reset to defaults". Do that and try again to start the game. If it doesn't work come back and report. Also please try to give more information. In what way does it not work? Are there error messages? Do you see any windows pop up or does it fail silently to start the program?

Roland could playtest A21 already and has reported that instead of paper or empty book cases he finds a lot of magazines now. And as the game balance needs a lot of magazines to be found just assume all the paper you found in the crack-a-book will be a magazine in A21 and you are probably near the truth.

You are right, didn't notice it. Moved.

You don't block epic, right? Otherwise that could be another reason it doesn't work If you want you can put a logfile on pastebin and publish a link to it here so people can check if there is any indication of the problem in there. How to find the logfile is described in a pinned thread in the "General Support" section here in the forum

I agree with you, I also don't like that text and had actually complained about it some time ago, without result.

Data loss is random. The game is constantly writing to the savegame to record changes and any interupted write can corrupt any of the files in the savegame. You could try to go into the savegame and locate your player files in the directory "Player". There are always backup files there and if you didn't start the game twice it could still have your old data. If not, use "giveselfxp" in the console and the creative menue to give yourself the lost levels and items back. And if you want to be save from future blackouts make backups of the savegames regularily