A17 Agility - Why

[Scyris]

I know right? I get the feeling he really strongly dislikes A17 but I just can't be sure since he is so subtle about it. He needs to just stop holding back and tell us how he really feels.

 

 

 

 

 

Yeah, for when you blow your hidden shot (or the hidden shot wasn't enough for the kill) then the extra damage from perception helps, even at low levels it can mean 1 shot less for the kill, which can be a lifesaver at times. Of course the synergy with hidden and headshot is just awesome. Even though the archery perk doesn't increase damage directly, faster draw & aim does translate to more DPS, so I feel it is worthwhile having put points there. As stated salvage is solid, looter - a16 I considered it critical, a17 meh, but it is something.

 

I've not been using guns a hell of a lot and haven't had a chance to really go into those perks to debate how useful they are/aren't.

 

For guns I really like the smg now personallty. My go to in A16 was the sniper rifle, but all of the 7.62mm round using guns are now pretty much trash, the magnum is still good, and the smg is good, shotgun has been garbage for many alphas in a row, and this continues into a17e as mods don't seem to up its damage much. The Marksman rifle should have damage matching the magnum, while the ak47 should be around 45-50 dmg. No gun should hit for less than the ammo's base dmg, like 9mm ammo base dmg is 25, yet the smg hits for.. 20 somehow?

[Punchdrunk]

No comments on the fact that you can only strafe sideways by bunny hopping like someone in a wheelchair?

 

I don't need to strafe at full sprint speed, just y'know, like a normal human being can...

[meganoth]

No comments on the fact that you can only strafe sideways by bunny hopping like someone in a wheelchair?

 

I don't need to strafe at full sprint speed, just y'know, like a normal human being can...

 

Maybe nobody commented because they are wondering what the problem is. I just started 7d2d, kept the 'd' key pressed and I was moving sideways, and moving, and moving.

[Dimpy]

Strafing speed significantly reduced.

Backpedaling removed.

Running while reloading removed.

Stamina greatly reduced.

Ladder movement speed greatly reduced.

Crouching doesn't crouch anymore.

Encumbrance added to slow you down.

Jumping/punching etc cost more stamina.

Stamina is reduced by consumables rather than being a fixed pool.

Not being able to cancel a reload in progress by switching items.

Building/upgrading blocks is significantly slower.

 

Why are you dead set on slowing down the agility of the player in A17? It feels like the worst FPS I've ever played. It's awful.

 

This game is also a survival horror game. They tend to have slower pace. Ideally the extra time should be used by the player to make long-term survival decisions and experience the ambience of the moment. If you want the game to be faster-paced, I suggest decreasing the time scale using commands, which makes EVERYTHING faster.

[Punchdrunk]

Maybe nobody commented because they are wondering what the problem is. I just started 7d2d, kept the 'd' key pressed and I was moving sideways, and moving, and moving.

 

interesting, maybe i'm bugged then, although it's in every game, and all versions of a17 so far.

 

When I try and strafe sideways, i take 1 step and stop, i have to keep pressing, 1 step each time.

I did rebind my keys, which I do for every game, I'll try going back to the default ones and see if that fixes it.

[Poojam]

This game is also a survival horror game. They tend to have slower pace. Ideally the extra time should be used by the player to make long-term survival decisions and experience the ambience of the moment. If you want the game to be faster-paced, I suggest decreasing the time scale using commands, which makes EVERYTHING faster.

 

Yea. It didn't have a slower pace for the last 5 years. Making it slow as of A17 makes it feel like I'm on a set of railroad tracks.

 

I get what you're saying, but it's a cheap trick. Just make the zombies more lethal, because this change has a big cost to the other gameplay elements. Don't slow everyone down so that the threats of zombies are harder to overcome. One step forward, two steps back. No pun intended.

[lumpoycustards]

I think a lot of this is covered by perks. To make the "run while reloading" perk valuable it must not be a default state. Then the player chooses what to spec into based on their playstyle.

[Poojam]

I think they should just make zombies a greater challenge if that's what they want. Don't slow people down in ways that compromise the ability to be able to support PVP. Give the always running zombies a buff, give the zombies more ranged offensive items (guns, rocks, etc), and better AI that doesn't run in a straight line.

[Poojam]

Because they were seen as too OP. The game has elements of FPS but is not a FPS like Doom or Serious Sam. It was seen as too arcade-like for the game.

 

This clip of Serious Sam looks like a ton of fun. I agree it's arcadey looking, but it was made 17 years ago. It has an appropriate mix of flying, stealth, ranged attacking, suicidal exploding, line-of-sight attacks, and randomized circle spawning that makes the player have to rely on a mix of different guns and defensive maneuvers to adequately defend himself and progress in the game. If you look past the graphics, I would say it does a better job at creating a threat for an FPS PVE than 7DTD.

[Zourin]

Run and Gun + Rule 1 + Automatic Weapons + SMG = serious kite mode. Add in Parkour, and you become an absolute maneuver freak with a gun that restores stam, capable of vaulting cars, low walls, and dropping off buildings without becoming a dead cripple. (12 points to start)

 

That's a hell of a power combo, along with a high fort tank build (healing factor, pain tolerance, Immunity, flurry), you can really do quite a bit of damage.

 

That's not to be confused with the Tomb Raider combo (Lucky Looter, Ninja Movement, Shadows, Hidden Strike)

Or the Joe's Bitch build (Lucky Looter, Rule 1, Better Barter, Daring Adventurer)

Or the Naturalist build (Motherlode, Miner 69'er, Huntsman, Living o/t Land)

 

Or even the freaking Hobo build (Slow Metabolism, Well Hydrated, Immunity, Well Insulated)

 

That's right. With only 11 points, which you can have by level 6!, you can be a burgeoning hobo that is resistant to all the natural ways of dying by starvation, dehydration, food poisoning, dysentery, infection, pneumonia, and even ambient temperature.

[OzHawkeye]

I think they should just make zombies a greater challenge if that's what they want. Don't slow people down in ways that compromise the ability to be able to support PVP. Give the always running zombies a buff, give the zombies more ranged offensive items (guns, rocks, etc), and better AI that doesn't run in a straight line.

 

I disagree.

 

Hopefully when A18 hits and we get bandits, it'll be bandits that you'll need to worry about at range.

 

If/when we get bandits, I'll be looking to mod out any ranged attack zombie capability I can find just personally.

[Poojam]

Run and Gun + Rule 1 + Automatic Weapons + SMG = serious kite mode. Add in Parkour, and you become an absolute maneuver freak with a gun that restores stam, capable of vaulting cars, low walls, and dropping off buildings without becoming a dead cripple. (12 points to start)

 

That's a hell of a power combo, along with a high fort tank build (healing factor, pain tolerance, Immunity, flurry), you can really do quite a bit of damage.

 

That's not to be confused with the Tomb Raider combo (Lucky Looter, Ninja Movement, Shadows, Hidden Strike)

Or the Joe's Bitch build (Lucky Looter, Rule 1, Better Barter, Daring Adventurer)

Or the Naturalist build (Motherlode, Miner 69'er, Huntsman, Living o/t Land)

 

Or even the freaking Hobo build (Slow Metabolism, Well Hydrated, Immunity, Well Insulated)

 

That's right. With only 11 points, which you can have by level 6!, you can be a burgeoning hobo that is resistant to all the natural ways of dying by starvation, dehydration, food poisoning, dysentery, infection, pneumonia, and even ambient temperature.

 

Breaking the character's agility, dividing it into components, and giving some of it back via grind-a-perk to unlock is not interesting.

 

With 11 points, I'll still be significantly worse at moving around than I was in A16.4. I don't think there is a valid excuse for that. It's certainly not what I would call new content.

 

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I disagree.

 

Hopefully when A18 hits and we get bandits, it'll be bandits that you'll need to worry about at range.

 

If/when we get bandits, I'll be looking to mod out any ranged attack zombie capability I can find just personally.

 

You'll just have to make them throw eggs.

[Zourin]

Breaking the character's agility, dividing it into components, and giving some of it back via grind-a-perk to unlock is not interesting.

 

With 11 points, I'll still be significantly worse at moving around than I was in A16.4. I don't think there is a valid excuse for that. It's certainly not what I would call new content.

 

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You'll just have to make them throw eggs.

 

A16 did have stamina problems, and you had to perk out of them too. The only difference was that you only need 2 points in cost reduction and 2 points in regen rate to completely eliminate the problem, ignoring the rest of the perk progressions. A16 also had the same grind-a-perk functionality, in case you forgot about the stone-axe grinding thing.

 

The fact you have to invest at all in basic functionality when you pretty much only want combat, resource, and tech perks seems to irritate you as a distraction from where you'd rather be investing, and I'd say that's a damn good thing. There's always going to be a sacrifice when you look at the perk system, but a point is never wasted if it's a point you always use.

 

A character's build is about what you gave up as much as about what you took. If you're 'out of stamina' the problem isn't perk points in Agility. The problem is you're burning through the points you have too fast, and that's points in Sex Rex. If you're burning out mining, then it's Sex Rex and Miner 69'er (fewer swings). None of that requires a massive stamina pool, just a well maintained one, which means being fed and hydrated, and Metabolism/Hydrated perks shore that up. So a very heavy natural resource harvester is going to be Str-Fort built for Sex Rex, 69'er, Motherlode, and a couple token points in Hydrated/Metabolism to take the edge off.

 

Rather than spread out trying to do a lot of things at once, try focusing hard down a tree for what's useful in it first, like 2pts Str, 2 points Rex, and 1 point Packmule. That's level 1 and you've amped your damage output, upped your carrying capacity (with a 2nd point at lvl 2), and cut your stamina expenses by 20%. That's not a waste. You'll be using those points for the rest of the game.

 

If it's mobility, then you're talking different perks, like Rule 1, Parkour, Swimmer, and Run'n'Gun. Agility pairs OK with strength, but really well with Perception with run'n'gun and automatic weapon perks on one hand, and stealth with archery and looter perks. Stealthers don't need Rule 1 OR Sex Rex. They just need enough STAM to GTFO to a more open area or a waiting vehicle if things go south in a bad way.