Perks and Choices

[RestInPieces]

No. But I'll be brief. PvP is one reason for rushing the progression. The other reason I mentioned was a strong dislike for playing the game with sub-optimal abilities and gear........And again all my comments are about the speed of progression and the actions taken to most efficiently rush through the progression-- not about the existence or not of progression.

 

I get what you are talking about, but I wanted to see if we were on the same page about whether the game incentivises players to progress, either to experience more content or to achieve a goal more easily etc.

 

So theoritically speaking:

 

-There is character progression, which naturally becomes desirable because there is an incentive behind it.

-We have a strong incentive, if I may say, which includes unlocking content, gameplay QOL, becoming more powerful.

-We are presented with choices to achieve it. Each choice has a significantly different speed factor while leading to this result.

 

Now. When, in general, one is incentivized to progress and is presented with various choices to achieve that progression, what is the most humanly sensible thing for that person to do?

 

The answer explains why more and more players perceive the game as a grindfest. It's not because they are completionists, it's not because they have to be pvp'ers, it's because it's the most logical thing to do, considering the above, established factors that the game design is responsible for.

 

That's why I am spamming for:

-Balancing the ways you get experience as much as possible.

-Essential perks like recipe perks not to be tied with character progression.

-Survival perks not changing survival so drastically (shrug off diseases, injuries, 999% more satiation etc), but complementing it.

 

Now, if there was an insignificant difference between these choices and character rpg progression was not significant enough, then and only then would I justify your viewpoint and say it is a matter of playstyle.

 

 

Btw I'll mention it again (until they implement it). The new system opens the way for an even better system of "raising attributes by doing", so I am still hopeful!

[SnowDog1942]

Thats the truth, diablo 2 was great, then diablo 3 hit and I was like "What is this crap?" I expect diablo 4 to be even worse.

 

So you haven't heard of Diablo Immortal?..... you gotta check it out if you haven't lol....worth it for the laughs.

[KingSlayerGM]

@Roland

 

I appreciate you kept your cool and took the time to calmly reply to each of my posts. Thank you.

 

I, on the other hand, was a bit rough. I'm sorry for that.

[SickPuppy]

I learned Karate by painting a fence. Its all good.

 

Nice.

 

The only worry I have with the new system is in the end we will still be overpowered to the point it's not about survival anymore. For me the fun has always been early game stages. I saw a couple of perks one was totally immune to broken legs, the other immune to stun. These two alone plus having stacks of ammunition and a plethora of weapons, I'm guessing will make late game the same as A16 where people will become bored and start complaining for A18 and more challenge again. It will take the survival purist to not take those perks.

 

I'd prefer a more player skill based challenge than unlock a perk and now the action you used that didn't work or got you killed now suddenly works, but you are still doing the same action that got you killed in the first place. Saying that and without trying A17 I can't see a big problem with it. I'm not a purist that has to do that same action over and over again because it boils down to fun. I enjoy killing zombies and looting but mining resources puts me to sleep. But I'm happy to know I can still build cement bases from doing what I find fun.

 

i think what TFP has done should be commended, it seems to me they have tried to do the impossible and please everyone, even though it doesn't seem like it on forums, the open play style and options / settings to suit everyone's play style is astounding. Not to mention making their game easily moddable.

[bloom_meister]

A lot has been written of late about the desire for a system where you gain advantages in an action by practicing that action. Those who are detractors of the Perk system say that it is flawed because by killing zombies they can magically be better at planting and harvesting corn. They claim that there is a huge disconnect between where they spend their points and the actions they did to gain those points.

 

So........no.

 

 

The new perk system is an open and free system that allows people the choice to play the game however they wish. If someone doesn't care about where points come from or how they are spent they can play it that way.

 

If someone cares very much about where points come from and how they are spent, the good news is they can choose to play the game that way as well.

 

For example:

 

We earn xp from farming. There is a farming perk. I could grind farming at the exclusion of all else until I earned a point that came purely from farming and then pend that point to improve farming.

 

We earn xp from mining. I could do the same as I outlined above.

 

Now this is a very purist and probably very boring way for most people but for those who have been going on and on and on about how much they supposedly love this style of play....it is there for them if they choose to take it. And why wouldn't they since they talk and talk about how much they love it....

 

But there is an even less extreme way that those who say they like to learn by doing could do just that and here is how:

 

The player could play the game doing all sorts of activities but probably (realistically) getting most of their points from killing zombies. Now lets say that this player wanted to be able to craft seeds and so wanted to put a point into the farming perk but they had not yet done any farming. Well, that player could then do some farming. Not enough to earn a complete point by solely farming but enough to feel that they had gained some experience and learning. THEN, they could spend the point on farming.

 

Now lets say that the player wanted to improve their accuracy on headshots but knew that most of their kills had been by melee. Well, that player could then decide to practice headshots by killing the zombies by ranged attacks for the rest of that day and maybe the next to really put some headshot practice in. THEN, the player could spend that point on improving headshots. In this case most of another perk point would even have been earned purely by doing that action.

 

In reviewing all the perks there is not a single perk that a player could not choose to practice before spending the point on that actions to improve it. And in the vast majority of the perks the actual action used to practice actually does earn xp which would actually contribute to the point that would be spent for that action.

 

So why wouldn't a player play this way?

 

1) They actually care more about min/maxing and endgame rushing than they care about making sure skill progression matches the actions aligned with that skill.

2) They really don't care at all about learning by doing and are just fine with perk points earned not aligning with perk points spent.

3) They didn't realize they had such freedom to play the game the way the really wanted to all along (but now they do after reading this)

4) They don't like choices like these and want the game structure to force them to play the way they say they like to play.

 

Maybe somone who says they like to learn by doing can explain why they wouldn't play that way given the fact that the game allows for it if they will just choose to do what they want.

 

I like dead is dead and I sometimes choose to play that way. Whether the devs ever put a mode in that forces it or not I will play dead is dead whenever the mood strikes me because that is what I want. I've already decided to give what I've described a try although I am not one who has proclaimed learning by doing as the pinnacle of game design.

 

Level gating the perks annihilates your points

[Khulkhuum]

I just realized something that most people shrugged off or didn't take into account (this is in view of people arguing about so many things being behind skills like cooking an egg). A wall of text commences:

 

Finishing the tutorial quests grants 5 skill points - this means practically 5 levels of progress without levelling. Going further with that, when you spend the 5-10 minutes to finish it, you can customize your "character" as you see fit. I would go as far as say that these are the beginning points you can use to show that your character can do something from the get go (or has some basic basic skills). Would be good if it were more points (as there are so many skills to raise, as well as base stats), but still...

 

I'm beginning to like the idea of a blank slate of a character, as i have seen people who are complete useless when it comes to warming up anything in a stove, cooking an egg or any other basic thing in the kitchen. In the same manner, there are people who are very weak or don't know how to hold 10 different objects (or bags or packages) at the same time, who don't know how to make a campfire, who don't know how to jump over obstacles, etc.

 

In summary: I think it's great thinking on TFP to make it like this, although i would prefer more points at the beginning. Later on you enhance your character how you want even more, even considering the level gating.