TheProphet Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 One of my favorite places on the internet is 2b2t, a Minecraft server that has been running since 2010 with no restarts. It's an anarchy server where anything goes, and it's fascinating because you can find endless stuff in it built (and destroyed) by people. As the updates get rolled out, the unexplored chunks spawn the new stuff so there is always an incentive to keep exploring. There's even a museum where people have collected legacy blocks and items that no longer work or spawn, they are traded etc. It's a massive universe within Minecraft. The map is infinite, or as big as currently possible by Minecraft (30 million blocks on all directions). The world has been explored to around 5%. Here's a vid for these not familiar with it: I was wondering if such a thing exists in 7DTD. Im sick of map restarts, "safe zones", roleplaying, endless non-vanilla stuff that overcomplicates things or otherwise dumbs it down... It would be cool if someone is commiting in making a similar project for this game. Im sure the interest in no restarts ever policy alone would attract many including donators to keep the server up. The only thing I would add that 2b2t doesn't have is an anti-cheat policy. I know due a bug the map is limited to 10k which is not much, but in the future when this gets fixed, could we run a server like this? The most important is to never reset the map. I believe in the future something like 2b2t will be able to be done in more modern engines. It's all a matter of getting the math right and having the funds to host the ever growing server. 2b2t is currently near 4000 GB and has no problems getting funds from donators. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer777 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 in theory that may work for 7days prophet but you would need a massive system to run it non stop with no restarts and as of right now new alphas force map wipes unless you opt out so may or may not work Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OneArmedBandit Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Hey there It certainly isn't possible as long as the game is still in alpha stage because of the updates regularily changing (thus breaking) core elements of the game and old savegames won't work anymore. (of course you could stay with the version you began with, but then you'll miss new content) after Gold release one might of course play a map for thousands of days, but as you said yourself: it won't be much fun after a point because of the very limited (compared to minecraft that is) size of the map - which I don't believe will be *considerably* increased for the final game. at least not in the manner you are thinking of ....but of course I gladly let myself be convinced otherwise! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 17, 2018 Author Share Posted August 17, 2018 Hey there It certainly isn't possible as long as the game is still in alpha stage because of the updates regularily changing (thus breaking) core elements of the game and old savegames won't work anymore. (of course you could stay with the version you began with, but then you'll miss new content) after Gold release one might of course play a map for thousands of days, but as you said yourself: it won't be much fun after a point because of the very limited (compared to minecraft that is) size of the map - which I don't believe will be *considerably* increased for the final game. at least not in the manner you are thinking of ....but of course I gladly let myself be convinced otherwise! Well, apparently the problem is that Unity derps when you try to get past 10k due a bug. Big efforts should be put towards fixing the math involved there because 10k is really small. Modern computers are able to host massive servers without lag. It really isn't a problem of resources. To reduce lag client-side, you could limit the amount of chunks that a player can generate, just like 2b2t does, which renders 4 chunks of distance from where the player is standing no matter what your view distance setting is client side. So basically, change the chunk generation setting server-side, I assume this already exists within 7DTD. This allows for 100+ players at once without problems. Whatever you client is showing you past 4 chunks is previously visited chunks by the player (cached.) It even allows to use vehicles like the boat which generates chunks at faster speed. So it's just a problem of solving the world border bug, then just hosting the world as it grows. 2b2t exists since Minecraft was in beta version. You mentioned "Old savegames wouldn't work". I don't really get what you mean, it's an online server. Also new content wouldn't be a problem if the world border was extended, because new content would be generated in non-explored chunks, so these biomes would contain the new items and the new stuff, that's the magic of 2b2t. You enter and the spawn is like going back to 2010, everything is destroyed. You must travel several miles until you find vegetation and living animals. Then as you travel you start seeing items from more modern versions (you could always find someone's base and raid it if you are lucky). Then when you get far enough, you could be exploring land which has never been explored by anyone else, on this moment these chunks are generated in whatever latest version is running. This is why it's so awesome, Minecraft doesn't require restarts, and so it has allowed an entire lore within the server: I wish to see this in 7DTD. As much as I love Minecraft im honestly a bit sick of block-style games, can't really take it anymore. 7DTD has the right elements to take it to the next level. We must just solve the world border limit, 10k is too tiny for this. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Once 7 days is finished, I'm certain something like this will be very possible. Although the map data is going to be quite a bit larger. Luckily Intel has some really sweet new storage drives for 1U units they just released. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Menace312 Posted August 17, 2018 Share Posted August 17, 2018 Once 7 days is finished, I'm certain something like this will be very possible. Although the map data is going to be quite a bit larger. Luckily Intel has some really sweet new storage drives for 1U units they just released. Who would have the money and the room at home for a 1U server rack? I'm jealous Sylen.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blazer777 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 the other problem with this prophet is 2b2t is currently at 12TB Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SylenThunder Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Who would have the money and the room at home for a 1U server rack? I'm jealous Sylen.... Ya know, 15 years ago I might have said the same thing. Then I grabbed an old SunFire V20z and built a rack in the basement. I think it cost about $200 total. I've since upgraded that to a Dell PowerEdge R710. (Well, added really, still have the SunFire too.) All told I'm only about $600 in and that costs less than most people spend on desktops. I imagine setting up a petabyte of storage won't be cheap though. Figure it's likely about $1000 per terabyte. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Gronk Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Well, apparently the problem is that Unity derps when you try to get past 10k due a bug. Big efforts should be put towards fixing the math involved there because 10k is really small. Modern computers are able to host massive servers without lag. It really isn't a problem of resources. That's not really an issue with some good programming, all game engines have a limit it's just more obvious with some than others. TFP have apparently put a system into A17 that solves that problem although I have no idea how far it can be pushed. I've also solved that problem to create 1,000,000 km of wrappable terrain so I know from personal experience it's not insurmountable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian9824 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 Some of those features would never be possible. Stuff like legacy items that don't spawn or work anymore couldn't exist in the game once removed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 That's not really an issue with some good programming, all game engines have a limit it's just more obvious with some than others. TFP have apparently put a system into A17 that solves that problem although I have no idea how far it can be pushed. I've also solved that problem to create 1,000,000 km of wrappable terrain so I know from personal experience it's not insurmountable. That sounds good. How much distance is 1,000,000 km tho? In 2b2t, the limit is ±30,000,240 blocks, however im not sure how many km that is. Is the current 10k counted in km? Edit: I found this: Here is what Notch says, The world is 30 million blocks across. A block is one square meter. 30,000,000 meters is 30,000 km. 30,000×30,000 is 900,000,000, so the Minecraft world is nine hundred million square kilometers. The earth has a surface area of about 510 million square kilometers. It IS larger than the earth, people! So 30,000km from 0,0... 7d7t could have 1,000,000km? impressive. I just hope they don't code some sort of border. Please let people individually set the world limit according to how much they can host in their servers. There's some rich people out there that will be willing to host a server as big as needed and upgrade as people explore further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 Some of those features would never be possible. Stuff like legacy items that don't spawn or work anymore couldn't exist in the game once removed. If it can be done in Minecraft then I don't see how it cannot be done in 7dtd. You just need to avoid the game crashing due lacking items. For example in Minecraft, in 2b2t some guy found a 2011 base, and he tripped out when he found a chest with leaves from the alpha version: The game doesn't crash, it just renders the item with that sort of placeholder texture. This made players search for these items as rarities in the server, they even made museums to put them there. It just becomes part of the lore. Backwards compatibility to avoid forcing world resets it's what made Minecraft so cool, and it was made in java, there's nothing that says this cannot be done in 7dtd. the other problem with this prophet is 2b2t is currently at 12TB Yet they don't have problems running it for near 10 years. Again, you will find donators. 2b2t is the dream of any PVP player, so you will corner the market with such a server, with so many players donators will come because they will not want to see a reset to see their work wasted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Damocles Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 The thing is: Unity is a general purpose game engine, while Minecraft uses a custom server for exactly that kind of game. Thus Minecraft having the advantage to optimize the server for exactly that purpose of huge worlds. A custom server can even be split into separate instances for different regions. Unity will be much harder to run a server with that many people. Its just not build specifically for that purpose. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Brian9824 Posted August 18, 2018 Share Posted August 18, 2018 If it can be done in Minecraft then I don't see how it cannot be done in 7dtd. You just need to avoid the game crashing due lacking items. For example in Minecraft, in 2b2t some guy found a 2011 base, and he tripped out when he found a chest with leaves from the alpha version: The game doesn't crash, it just renders the item with that sort of placeholder texture. This made players search for these items as rarities in the server, they even made museums to put them there. It just becomes part of the lore. Backwards compatibility to avoid forcing world resets it's what made Minecraft so cool, and it was made in java, there's nothing that says this cannot be done in 7dtd. Yet they don't have problems running it for near 10 years. Again, you will find donators. 2b2t is the dream of any PVP player, so you will corner the market with such a server, with so many players donators will come because they will not want to see a reset to see their work wasted. They are totally different systems. Rendering in 7dtd doesn't work like that. The item has an itemid that is re-used by a different item. It would require massive changes to many systems for something thats basically serves no purpose and that 99.9% of users would never even care about or see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheProphet Posted August 18, 2018 Author Share Posted August 18, 2018 They are totally different systems. Rendering in 7dtd doesn't work like that. The item has an itemid that is re-used by a different item. It would require massive changes to many systems for something thats basically serves no purpose and that 99.9% of users would never even care about or see. Well I remember back in 2013 when they said "oh it's impossible to have a non-blocky world" Technology progresses over time. The point of procedual technology is to allow for worlds to be as big as the server can host, and to avoid constant resets because people empty the worlds of resources after a while. It's just a matter of gettings things done on all parts. The itemid thing is a non issue, it can be fixed pretty easily, you can tell the engine to not crash and put a placeholder. 99.9% of PVP servers would play in a server that never needs to reset so it's worth investing time in making the game backwards compatible, maybe not for now but when we get past alpha. By then I guess it will be 2030 too so computers will allow for massive worlds Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Archived
This topic is now archived and is closed to further replies.