[WIP] True Survival SDX

[Jeoshua]

Spider - Funny that you should mention Zomboid. I've been trying to add some of the flocking mechanics into this game. So far I've gotten the zombies to respond and come to each other when they spot you. I'll keep you posted on more.

[JaxTeller718]

I have a bit of feedback and it might be a bit longwinded. First let me say that this mod is incredible and I have had an insane amount of fun playing it.

 

Now that I think about it, I think my feedback might not even be related to this mod, but more the nature of 7D2D in general.

 

It's just that every time I play I lose the fun at the mid-game. There just isn't any more goal or challenge. Survival is easy, decapitating zombies in 1 hit is easy. I was the highest level player on Spider's official server as of a few days ago (59 I think)

 

I wasn't even close to Steel tools, but I crafted weapons (like TheShark) that would instantly decapitate zombies in 1 hit 90% of the time. And I had no points into the dismemberment perk. I could wade in to hordes of zombies at 0,0 in Iron Armor and with a few stims and med kits just slice through dozens of zombies.

 

What this does is make my desire for better weapons (guns, end game katana, steel tier stuff)-- completely disappear. Melee combat is trivial with mid-game weapons. Even with my crafted spiked clubs it was a 1- or 2- hit for most zombies. I had 100 archery and 100 melee at Level 55. I had no decent guns.

 

Some might say: Well wouldn't going for guns be motivation to keep playing? My answer would be hell yes! But the way the heatmap works, firing off a lot of rounds ends up with a never-ending cycle of screamers, cops, and eventually miners, military, etc zombies, enough to deplete ammo supply. And for what? What's the point? Running with an archery/melee combo keeps the heatmap low and kill count high.

 

I am realizing this is sounding ilke a complaint, I'm truly not complaining. I have a TON of fun playing this mod. I'm just recounting my experience of what happened when I hit mid-game. Maybe some people can make suggestions for other goals to keep me motivated at mid-level, something to make me desire end-game items. But to me, it felt like the mid-game items felt like I was using epic purple raidboss legendeary quest items. Any feedback/thoughts are welcome

 

Again, I really hope this doesn't come across as an accusation or complaint about the mod.

 

I think the biggest issue all of us who have modded the game for better zombies and weapons has run into is the fact there IS no mid game. You either have weapons that are ineffective and annoying to use or you have weapons that one shot. Its on Pimps to fix combat because we have all done everything we can to try to extend gameplay.

[xyth]

@xyth-

 

The wrench drop rate is wear I want it. It shouldn't be that common and when you find one early game it should be special. The Player can craft them at level 10 so I don't see it as a problem as you have the ability to make them for 190 levels out of 200. I did have a plan to make this part better though. The plain is to make the Claw Hammer more useful by making it able to disassemble blocks. It would mean you could disassemble blocks with it but get less than you would with a wrench. Then the plan was to also make the Screwdriver disassemble things and give more items. So their would be 4 different tiers of getting materials from world blocks. Normal breaking, then disassembling them with the Hammer, Wrench and Screwdriver. We could also make them harvest different materials too. Like the Hammer might give more wood or metal but no parts and the wrench might give mechanical parts and the screwdriver might give electric parts and components. Its a ton of work in the block file and that's why it hasn't been done. With A16 coming it will completely need redoing and I'm not one to like wasting time on something I'll have to redo in a few weeks.

 

 

The drop rate is fine if there is an alternate path to grinding scrap iron with stone ax and supplementing that with the occasional pot, engine block, table etc. At level 11 with full focus on scrap iron collection since day 1 I just got 1200 iron and made an anvil. I really need 2 anvils (1 for workstation and 1 for forge) but that wont happen until I get a wrench. Making a wrench takes more than level 10 as you suggest. Its locked behind forged Iron and I think L5 in Journeyman crafting. Without a wrench, you cant level journeyman crafting, as all the recipes that level that seemed locked behind something else (Id be more specific but I need to get in game to do that). Anyway, removing the wrench single gate by enabling the hammer is a good solution. Screwdriver less so because its locked behind the wrench. Quick fix is to let the hammer (which has an iron head) actually damage cars (maybe just on the last car breakdown stage only to save you mod time) so we at least get scrap drops on destroy.

[Spider]

@xyth-

Scrap Iron is very easy to find using the Stone Axe. Break metal chairs, school desk, office chairs and scrap iron tables any anything not nailed down. I collected my metal for my Anvil in one game day.

[xyth]

I think the biggest issue all of us who have modded the game for better zombies and weapons has run into is the fact there IS no mid game. You either have weapons that are ineffective and annoying to use or you have weapons that one shot. Its on Pimps to fix combat because we have all done everything we can to try to extend gameplay.

 

Yes, this issue, plus the combat limitations spider mentioned are 2 of the biggest weaknesses in this game. I would add the lack of difficulty progression options, and the lack of mechanics to control abundance are the next two.

 

To make horde night interesting, I think its necessary to consider mutant zombies part of the game lore. Basic zombies are too limited to make midgame interesting.

 

I make sure that the zombies that spawn have a decent chance of breaking through my defenses. Suicide mole, cops and other exploders (with increased block damage) spawn at high rates on horde night. Block targeting zeds with high hit points come as well (gupBiff types). These punch trough everything easily but double walled steel. Bees swarm the base top and with Spider's fatal poison a bee is nothing to ignore. Still too easy? I want to add special zeds that target blocks with acid, and let the acid melt steel fast. In this case wood would largely be immune to acid, stone somewhat resistant, and metal not at all. Racing to get steel for base defense becomes less important that creative base design.

 

In this mod Spider reliably throws fatcops and brutes in every wave, which helps keep things interesting, but more specialized zombies would make it more so.

 

 

On a final note, and maybe this is a subject for another topic, but I think we need to find a way to really differentiate player classes. There are ways to approach this, one being letting folks pick a primary and maybe one or more secondary starter quests then restrict progression in other profession skill areas. So you can be excellent at somethings, but never better than mediocre at others. That would make repeat play thoughs more interesting. It would make coop more interesting. It might have a negative impact on pvp, but frankly this game isn't really good for that anyway if compared to most other games.

[xyth]

@xyth-

Scrap Iron is very easy to find using the Stone Axe. Break metal chairs, school desk, office chairs and scrap iron tables any anything not nailed down. I collected my metal for my Anvil in one game day.

 

I wasn't lucky enough to find a school, and most metal objects can't be picked up or damaged more than 1 per hit (file cabinets, shopping cats, sinks, cars, most desks, tvs, kitchen appliances, metal used in buildings or decorations, pipes, scrap piles..etc. I found scrap iron tables and a few iron tables and office chairs, but none of the other items you listed. With that in mind I'm sure the next play through will be easier.

 

Oh, and forged iron is locked at L25 so making a wrench at L10 isnt happening unless you find forged iron in the pockets of a utility worker as thats the only place in loot where its found. Its also not listed as a possible destroy drop either.

[AkaiRyu]

11 hours into the mod, and I love it.

 

I just found a box with a bike (day 11), and i feel like it's a bit stupid that you can't have the gas from the barrels because "you don't know" how to; compared on how many realistic features this mod have.

 

I was thinking of being able of taking the gas from the barrels from the start, but:

 

- Lower the gas barrel spawn raito, or

- Lower gas from each barrel (+ a skill that when leveled up it lets you take more gas from each source).

 

Just some thoughts. Great work, i'm ♥♥♥♥ing loving this game again as the first time i played it in vanilla. Feels.

[daydark]

@Spider (didn't want to quote wall of text)

 

You make a lot of valid and fair points. I've taken to heart what you said. You're right, regular zombies should actually be easy to kill. A knife to the head should do the trick. I guess I just don't seem to encounter many of the tougher zombies (ferals, etc.) very often.

 

And yeah I think maybe some of the mid-tier weapons could use a look. The power curve between Club, Iron Reinforced Club, and Spiked Club felt very satisfying and natural. I guess really, I just made a massive wall of text because one weapon (theshark) made me feel way too OP.

[Spider]

@daydark-

The Shark is the highest tier Knife. Maybe it needs to be harder to get or make?

[Ajbass]

First mod I've ever played for 7DTD, played it for around a week now and man it's feels like a whole new game, absolutely brilliant. The progression being a lot slower makes it far more rewarding, and the variety of Recipes/Workstations is incredible.

 

If I may ask a question: Zinc Powder, is there anywhere else to get it beside 1 per (roughly) every 1000HP of a boulder?

[xFORCERx]

Is there any way to reduce the fps drops / stuttering when play on Spider's official server?

There are usually 5 players average and I am playing with 2 of my friends there. I can play kinda normally for the first 15 minutes, then I suppose the memory leak starts destroying my PC and I can't do ♥♥♥♥ anymore.

 

My video settings are kinda medium. Uma textures set to low and basic textures to half resolution. SSAO and all other tick options are turned off. Shadows are set to high I think. Draw distance at 10.

 

Any advice is more than welcome!

 

8 GB ram

i5 4460

GTX 560 Ti 1GB Vram

[DarkKlotz]

If I may a suggestion for sugarcane.

 

In Minecraft (yes im a old nerd) 3x sugarcane = paper. So. 5x sugarcane + water(or anything) = paper.

 

Or.. 5x sugarcane + drying rack = paper

[Jeoshua]

I personally would rather sugar be used for food purposes, as opposed to importing (silly) Minecraft recipes. Grind it down in the Stone Mill and get Sugar. And there should be more than one way to get it, such as from corn in the chemistry station (Corn Syrup).

 

Brewing alcohols should require Sugar. Maybe some Sweet Coffee that gives a little more oomph. Definitely as an ingredient for Red Bull (actually the MAIN ingredient). Etc. And as an ingredient for Pie.

[DarkKlotz]

I personally would rather sugar be used for food purposes, as opposed to importing (silly) Minecraft recipes. Grind it down in the Stone Mill and get Sugar. And there should be more than one way to get it, such as from corn in the chemistry station (Corn Syrup).

 

Brewing alcohols should require Sugar. Maybe some Sweet Coffee that gives a little more oomph. Definitely as an ingredient for Red Bull (actually the MAIN ingredient). Etc. And as an ingredient for Pie.

 

I agree with this as well. I didn't suggest food group because there is already a ton, and trying to give the drying rack some lovin.

[wolverine576]

I personally would rather sugar be used for food purposes, as opposed to importing (silly) Minecraft recipes. Grind it down in the Stone Mill and get Sugar. And there should be more than one way to get it, such as from corn in the chemistry station (Corn Syrup).

 

Brewing alcohols should require Sugar. Maybe some Sweet Coffee that gives a little more oomph. Definitely as an ingredient for Red Bull (actually the MAIN ingredient). Etc. And as an ingredient for Pie.

 

Yes. And also maybe some cupcakes! Add sugarcane to anything sweet, as in carrot cake too. 100% agree to redbull. Whats better than a cupcake to bring a smile in a zombie apocalypse?

[wolverine576]

I dont think there is much wrong with the amount of scrap iron to be found in early game.

 

Fan Belt gives scrap iron, when scrapped on the player

[Spider]

@Ajbass-

Zinc Powder also drops from stone so once you start mining you will have tons.

 

@Jeoshua-

Ya I was thinking along those lines also for sugar cane. Had an idea to make a Beer and Mead. Beer from grains and Mead from honey and sugar. I might go a head and do that. Its only adding recipes all the work is already done.

 

@xFORCERx-

Try turning your shadows off. It sucks but until they do a optimization pass it is what it is.

 

Quick question-

 

1)Fatty Zombies can swim?

 

2)Zombies and animals fight again?

[TormentedEmu]

Accidental double post

[TormentedEmu]

Bug report: I used a scuba tank and it gave me 5 minutes of breathing time, but my character still died after running out of breath after 30 seconds of being underwater.

 

Question: What is the cause of input lag from the crafting menu every time I type in a name to look for an item?

 

Cheers

[Erik Louden]

1) no

 

2) yes

 

A few days ago I started a character and within 10 minutes he was poisoned by a scorpion that was completely clipped through the sand.

 

So that being a death sentence, I started over and a few hours later got poisoned by a spider that was clipped through the terrain.

 

Maybe hold off on spawning poisonous animals a few days to allow player to at least have a chance to have the ingredients to make antidotes?

[Jeoshua]

@Ajbass-

1)Fatty Zombies can swim?

 

2)Zombies and animals fight again?

 

Yes and yes. It would be best if zombies even went after non-violent animals, but those animals had a "Run away!" AI Task pretty high up. That way the Zombies can react to other things than the player.

 

Also, fat floats.

[wolverine576]

craft_exp_gain="30"

 

Where is this xp applied? To the crafting xp, or player xp? How is player xp gained in crafting towards player xp?

[Spider]

@wolverine576-

The crafting XP is applied to whatever the Crafting Skill was set to in the item or block file for that item/block. All crafting XP goes toward the skills. When you level a skill it gives Xp to the Player level.

[wolverine576]

@wolverine576-

The crafting XP is applied to whatever the Crafting Skill was set to in the item or block file for that item/block. All crafting XP goes toward the skills. When you level a skill it gives Xp to the Player level.

 

Ugh my brain herts

[xFORCERx]

@xFORCERx-

Try turning your shadows off. It sucks but until they do a optimization pass it is what it is.

 

 

I'll try that now.

Just wanted to say you created a new game for me, not just a simple tweak. When someone asks me to play 7dtd, I tell them:

 

"I am waiting for A16 because I get bored after playing 10 minutes in A15... Or maybe I will play with you, but only under one condition. True Survival SDX mod". And that's the truth.

 

I am comparing your mod to something like Skyrim mods. It's how the game should've been. Or an option to make the game like that.

I am glad the community has such a great man like you.

 

Looking forward to further updates/balance changed/optimizations.