Complaints about OP gear, skills and perks.....

[Catrina]

I am a novice gamer and not too tech savvy. I say this to premise why I do not want to see, things continue to get 'Nerfed' in 7dtd, because some advanced and highly skilled players think they are Over Powered (OP). For some, new to gaming and not as skilled, these help balance not over power our play.

Here is an idea, if you are that good and find things like say maxing out a Stealth Builds in 7dtd to be OP, then Do Not Do It. WOW! what a concept. don't use things you think are OP, and thereby make the game more challenging for yourselves. Let those of us who like and want the better gear, skills and perks, to help balance our lack of experience, have them.

Want to make it a real challenge for yourselves? Play with a newbie, or four, and make it you goal in life to try and make sure they survive. That should test you abilities.

I know, most of you hate playing with newbies. Well then, back to my primary point, don't use what you think is OP. Leave them for the rest of us. Use game MODs that make it more challenging. Or maybe do a play through with where you only use Primitive Armor and stone weapons and tools. As far as I know, there is no rule in 7dtd that says you have to use all the advanced armor, weapons, tools, skills and/or perks.

 

Edited September 30 by Catrina (see edit history)

[theFlu]

Welcome to the forums, thanks for your opinion, and git gud!

 

A22 rolled in with players being able to achieve complete damage immunity. No damage taken from any of the zeds. That is brokenly OP. Fixed by now, but whether you're new or not, brokenly OP.

 

Stealth, sitting in the middle of the end boss fight of a Tier 6 Infested Clear, blasting the 60 zeds roaming around you with a deagle and never being detected by any of them, is brokenly OP. Whether you're new or not.

 

Now, if you find damage immunity appealing, feel free to toggle on "dm" and from there toggle on "God Mode" (default keybing possibly 'q', maybe 'g'; can't remember). That'll give you damage immunity - and you don't even need to mod the game for it. But, let us who know how to play the game have some semblance of playable mechanics in it.

[Riamus]

Although I understand where you are coming from, the average player is not new to gaming and is probably at least decently skilled in games.  Balancing needs to be done for the average gamer, not for the new player or the best player.  And sometimes that does mean things need to be nerfed.  New players don't stay new players for long.  This game is already extremely easy to play once you spend a little time learning how things work.  And if you're struggling, just reduce difficulty.  If that's still a struggle, you can use the creative mode to make things even easier.

 

In any case, everything should be balanced and nothing should be OP... for the average player.  It's not a matter of whether or not you use something that is OP.  It shouldn't be OP in the first place.

[Rotor]

/delete

Edited September 30 by Rotor (see edit history)

[warmer]

I think any game with stat points and armor bonuses can be min maxed to death. I've seen people 1 shot final bosses in Diablo. Is "that" OP, sure but it also takes someone designing any ENTIRE build around a certain skill. I always spread out my skills because I play 90% solo. If I was playing with 1 specific goal in mind for my build, I could certainly go in a direction that would be considering OP, but at the same time, your character is TRASH at a lot of other things. It all depends on what you want to do. The only skill I think "was" OP in my experience was parkour in A21.

Parkour USED to be OP, you could literally fall from any height and not die. WHILE cool, it actually completely ruined the game for me because I could just nerd pole to the top of any POI and then jump off and run home with zero fear. In a MP setting, anyone with maxed parkour and speed boosts to run speed had a crazy unfair advantage compared to other players. They nerfed it, it's still really powerful, but it's not super hero level powerful. Anytime a certain skill or item puts a character into "Super hero" status mobility/damage/immunity wise the game ceases to be fun for the player, because the challenge is gone, or that player becomes a nightmare to deal with on MP servers. When you break a core game mechanic, that needs to be looked at. I love a good power fantasy, but if it goes to far, it's no longer fun in my opinion.

Edited September 30 by warmer (see edit history)

[AidenwithAnAxe]

Fear makes the game fun 🙂

[Arez]

20 hours ago, Riamus said:

Although I understand where you are coming from, the average player is not new to gaming and is probably at least decently skilled in games.

Up until recently in Call of Duty, people thought the average KD was 1.0. It turns out to be 0.8. 

 

Being decently skilled is an above average trait.

[theFlu]

1 hour ago, Arez said:

It turns out to be 0.8. 

Not knowing much about CoD, but given every kill is globally also a death, the true avg should always be 1. I assume there's environmental deaths, or that's a median, not mean?

[Catrina]

21 hours ago, warmer said:

player becomes a nightmare to deal with on MP servers

I must admit, I did not consider the affect with multi-player servers. I have only played 7dtd in single player mode and a few times with a small group of friends. Never on an open multi-player server. I can see where a very skilled player that is a bad actor (Griefer and griefing I think are the terms) could use such things in bad-faith actions and ruin the fun for others.

[RipClaw]

6 hours ago, theFlu said:

Not knowing much about CoD, but given every kill is globally also a death, the true avg should always be 1. I assume there's environmental deaths, or that's a median, not mean?

The KD ratio is simply the number of kills a player has achieved divided by the number of deaths he suffers. A KD ratio of 1.0 would mean that he kills other players just as often as he dies himself. A KD ratio of 0.8 means that you die more often than you kill other players. The average player kills 4 other players while dying 5 times.

 

I looked for the statistics. It looks like about 30% have a KD of 1.2 (6 kills / 5 deaths), 10% a KD of 1.5 (3 kills / 2 deaths) and only the top 1% players have a KD of 2 or more.
 

Edited October 1 by RipClaw (see edit history)

[RipClaw]

33 minutes ago, Catrina said:

I can see where a very skilled player that is a bad actor (Griefer and griefing I think are the terms) could use such things in bad-faith actions and ruin the fun for others.

Unfortunately, this is the case in many multiplayer games. They are dominated by a minority while the majority is actually just cannon fodder that serves to amuse the top players.

 

However, 7 Days to is balanced for co-op multiplayer and not for PvP. You are supposed to work together and not fight each other.
 

[Roland]

On 9/29/2024 at 10:30 PM, warmer said:

Anytime a certain skill or item puts a character into "Super hero" status mobility/damage/immunity wise the game ceases to be fun for the player, because the challenge is gone, or that player becomes a nightmare to deal with on MP servers.

 

Super Hero powers in a zombie world might not be fun to play but it sure is fun to read. Peter Clines' Ex series is a great read/listen for anyone who enjoys playing zombie games.

[RipClaw]

7 minutes ago, Roland said:

Super Hero powers in a zombie world might not be fun to play but it sure is fun to read.

I wouldn't say having superpowers in a zombie apocalypse is boring. It's so satisfying when you can one-shot zombies after getting roughed up by them for so long and you constantly had to run away.

 

What is all this resource gathering, looting and leveling good for if you wouldn't get to a point where you finally be the hunter instead of being the prey?

[Suxar]

3 hours ago, Catrina said:

I must admit, I did not consider the affect with multi-player servers. I have only played 7dtd in single player mode and a few times with a small group of friends. Never on an open multi-player server. I can see where a very skilled player that is a bad actor (Griefer and griefing I think are the terms) could use such things in bad-faith actions and ruin the fun for others.

In a multiplayer game, things are not so simple. If there are problems with cheats on PvP servers, then on PvE this can be both a problem and a blessing. I have seen more than once how experienced players dragged newbies to level 6 missions, taking out all the zombies themselves and leaving all the loot for newbies. On the other hand, I have seen a situation where they picked up passwords to doors and boxes and destroyed all their contents.

A lot depends on the players themselves. It is difficult to predict who will do what, someone interferes with others playing, and someone helps.

[theFlu]

6 hours ago, RipClaw said:

The average player kills 4 other players while dying 5 times.

Thanks, but that I understood from the 0.8 - you managed carefully not to answer my question. Average mean, or average median?

[RipClaw]

2 hours ago, theFlu said:

Thanks, but that I understood from the 0.8 - you managed carefully not to answer my question. Average mean, or average median?

As far as I can tell, this is the origin of the data:

 

https://www.reddit.com/r/CODWarzone/comments/puu1f5/how_does_your_kd_compare_to_the_rest_of_the/?show=original

 

Apparently 0.8 is the KD that most players have. The actual average of all players is 0.92. A median does not seem to be given.
 

[theFlu]

Thanks Mean of 0.92, mode of 0.8. Hmm.. some deaths without corresponding recorded kills are happening, that's something like "fall damage" or accounts outside of tracking. EDIT: or account averages being used, instead of actual counts, ofc ..

 

Not that surprising of a graph tbh, most people in group pvp are just cannon fodder, and even the decent ones occasionally end up fed on as well.

Edited October 1 by theFlu (see edit history)

[Riamus]

I would not say that the average KD ratio in a game like CoD shows that the average players aren't decent players.  It just shows that such games tend to promote certain tactics that aren't going to be known by most new players.  What, if those stats include new players who may stop playing after such attacks, it didn't really mean anything useful. 

 

Besides, I was referring to being decently skilled overall.  You will get an average like in CoD because of the kind of game it is, while other games are easy enough that the average player has no trouble with anything.  Overall, the average player in the average game should be generally decent.  And we are really talking about this game anyhow.  An average player in this game, who isn't new to the game, is going to be decent without much trouble.

[ElCabong]

I agree with the op entirely. This is why the trader mission rewards suck. They were op.