danielspoa Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Hi devs, would you consider bringing back visual mods for armor? maybe old mods and clothing like the cap, hat, puffer, etc as cosmetic mods now. Have two ideas - A21 cosmetic mods without stats, to compete on the paint slot of armor pieces or a second slot, one for paint and one for the appearance model - A21 mods with heat and cold resistance, dedicated slot, could even open space to bring back a more impactful weather effect --------------------- About the mod Super Charger, memory may be failing me but I think it used to show its effect on the vehicle stats in A21? it doesn't now, and I'm unsure its just not reflecting on the stats or that mod is really not working at all 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaledwyn Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) Armor numbers need to be adjusted. Full biker set gives +10%! Me sitting at ~82% with full T6 + 2x+2 and 2x+1 armor mods AND 96% movement. My wife now is at 86% with T6 heavy armor and armor mod nerf (was 92% previously) and much less movement. Edited July 5 by Thaledwyn (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRussel Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Yep, found a legendary part in a common trash pile as well as a tier 4 quest's end loot. Gotta look in everything. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javabean867 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 14 hours ago, Adam the Waster said: Point exactly Honestly though putting a significant number of points and resources into heavy armor, I'd be disappointed if I wasn't tanky. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laran Mithras Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 46 minutes ago, Javabean867 said: Honestly though putting a significant number of points and resources into heavy armor, I'd be disappointed if I wasn't tanky. This. Heavy armor should be heavy. Instead of nerfing the safety, nerf the other stats. Make the movement penalty much heavier: such as, no running. Leave it as it is and make the penalties for using it weigh against the benefits of taking little or no damage. What's the point of teching up, perking up, and saving scads of resources to make armor that just never quite does it? Just my opinion. As it is, with the heavy armor nerf, ALL the other armors will now need nerfing. Ugh. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 44 minutes ago, Laran Mithras said: This. Heavy armor should be heavy. Instead of nerfing the safety, nerf the other stats. Make the movement penalty much heavier: such as, no running. Leave it as it is and make the penalties for using it weigh against the benefits of taking little or no damage. What's the point of teching up, perking up, and saving scads of resources to make armor that just never quite does it? Just my opinion. As it is, with the heavy armor nerf, ALL the other armors will now need nerfing. Ugh. Agreed It needs a movement speed penalty even with the book..the book helps with some armors but really heavy armor needs to make you slower 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laran Mithras Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Armor plating was removed from heavy armor. Instead, why not make penalties for having a plating piece attached to already "heavy" armor? Movement penalty. Increase in Food and Water consumption. Stamina drain. - all of these offset (somewhat) by perks and books. At the top end, Level 6 Heavy Armor with Armor Plating, the previous invulnerability with no running, increased Stamina, Food and Water usage. What is WRONG with that? We're on a path of never-ending nerfs now and nerfage never ends well. Granted the invulnerability wasn't intended, but there are other choices in attempting to "balance." The nerfing game is going to Rekt the balance all down the line. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 Just now, Laran Mithras said: Armor plating was removed from heavy armor. Instead, why not make penalties for having a plating piece attached to already "heavy" armor? Movement penalty. Increase in Food and Water consumption. Stamina drain. - all of these offset (somewhat) by perks and books. At the top end, Level 6 Heavy Armor with Armor Plating, the previous invulnerability with no running, increased Stamina, Food and Water usage. What is WRONG with that? We're on a path of never-ending nerfs now and nerfage never ends well. Granted the invulnerability wasn't intended, but there are other choices in attempting to "balance." The nerfing game is going to Rekt the balance all down the line. Maybe along with your buffs you get a few debuffs. Yes your heavy raider armor gives you increase critical protection but it slows your movement speed by 10% The only issue I see is stuff like Nomad. I wouldn't really call Nomad a heavy armor. It's more of a heavier medium armor. Maybe some armors like raider and murader once it comes out slows you down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Javabean867 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I'll have to check my armor when I get back online. But I'm pretty sure you can't stack the 2 armor plating mods, as opposed to removing them as an option completely. I know I have the 2 point armor mod in 1 of my slots, but I haven't made a new world woth the latest update, so I might be sliding by at this point lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
anon80 Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 7 hours ago, danielspoa said: Hi devs, would you consider bringing back visual mods for armor? maybe old mods and clothing like the cap, hat, puffer, etc as cosmetic mods now. Have two ideas - A21 cosmetic mods without stats, to compete on the paint slot of armor pieces or a second slot, one for paint and one for the appearance model - A21 mods with heat and cold resistance, dedicated slot, could even open space to bring back a more impactful weather effect --------------------- About the mod Super Charger, memory may be failing me but I think it used to show its effect on the vehicle stats in A21? it doesn't now, and I'm unsure its just not reflecting on the stats or that mod is really not working at all Quite agree with this, if 5th armor slot not possible before weather content expansion update, can we have those old clothes turn into armor mod cosmetic at the very least? for example, the Nerd armor chest piece right now, why not have a specific slot for cosmetic only that changes the short pants into long jeans or something? no offense to whoever designed the Nerd set, it's just.. well I'm sure most of us here loved the mix armor set from the previous alpha, so having an option to wear something else instead short pants that coming with chest pieces would be nice. Edited July 5 by anon80 (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DocRussel Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 The problem with a movement only penalty to heavy armor is that you could stand still in the middle of the street on horde night, do essentially nothing, and never die. Or at least not until the armor health drops to zero. Heavy armor could have other benefits such as immunity to infection, stun, or critical injuries. Raider already reduces the chance for some of these, but what if a set or Raider granted 100% immunity to infection? Or significantly slowed the rate of infection? 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rateds2k Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 7/4/2024 at 11:00 AM, Adam the Waster said: Yes been like that sense alpha 21 Love the variable hit points, I get into a rhythm on hitting zombies that take certain number of hits, Then bam one is like nope, hit me again 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 29 minutes ago, rateds2k said: Love the variable hit points, I get into a rhythm on hitting zombies that take certain number of hits, Then bam one is like nope, hit me again On Console zombies are even weaker one hit with a barbed club and they're dead so I'm going to be really refreshed when I have to fight stronger tougher zombies. Aside from moe Edited July 5 by Adam the Waster (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 4 hours ago, Laran Mithras said: This. Heavy armor should be heavy. Instead of nerfing the safety, nerf the other stats. Make the movement penalty much heavier: such as, no running. Leave it as it is and make the penalties for using it weigh against the benefits of taking little or no damage. What's the point of teching up, perking up, and saving scads of resources to make armor that just never quite does it? Just my opinion. As it is, with the heavy armor nerf, ALL the other armors will now need nerfing. Ugh. All you end up with doing that is to create a min/max situation. If a player can't run in heavy armor or the movement penalty is just really high, but armor is so powerful it can make you invincible (that was why they changed things), then players are just going to put on the heavy armor as soon as they start a POI or horde night and not wear it when moving. It doesn't take much time to swap armor, so that's what they'd do. That isn't a good solution. A player should never be invulnerable because of the armor they wear. Now, yes, if things aren't changed, all other armor will need to be nerfed to compensate. If they do that, they might need to reduce zombie damage to compensate for that nerf. However, what they did with heavy armor seems to be just a quick fix that isn't necessarily going to stay the way it is. It was shown that you could actually gain health when being hit by zombies with the armor the way it was. That wasn't something they wanted happening and the fastest fix for that was what they did. They'll most likely evaluate how to handle a permanent fix now that they have time without players exploiting that. Whether that permanent fix still means no armor mods on heavy armor or a reduction in all armor stats or even changing armor mods to not give so much additional armor or something else entirely, we'll have to wait to see. But feel free to offer them possible options like you did. Just consider the effects of what you suggest. Just like them making a quick change has side effects that people are going to not like, your own suggestion also has side effects that aren't good. Any quickly thought of idea will likely not work well without taking time to really examine all the ways it affects the game, which takes time. As a note, I always used heavy armor before 1.0 so I want heavy armor to be good. In 1.0, I don't know what class of armor I'm using because the way they made armor, there are other stats that I care about beyond just armor value and so I'm not really looking at the armor value. Movement, stamina, or noise didn't matter to me before 1.0 and still don't, but the other bonuses do matter and might outweigh the armor class for me. So I really have no idea what class I'm using right now. Edited July 5 by Riamus (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 9 hours ago, danielspoa said: Hi devs, would you consider bringing back visual mods for armor? maybe old mods and clothing like the cap, hat, puffer, etc as cosmetic mods now. Have two ideas - A21 cosmetic mods without stats, to compete on the paint slot of armor pieces or a second slot, one for paint and one for the appearance model - A21 mods with heat and cold resistance, dedicated slot, could even open space to bring back a more impactful weather effect --------------------- About the mod Super Charger, memory may be failing me but I think it used to show its effect on the vehicle stats in A21? it doesn't now, and I'm unsure its just not reflecting on the stats or that mod is really not working at all With how they changed armor, it's unlikely they'll add mods that change the appearance of armor based on mods. However, dyes are still planned to work in the new armor and there is a wardrobe system coming that should have some effect on things. We don't yet know if that system just lets you swap armor sets quickly or if it lets you "transmogrify" stuff so it looks like something else. Regarding temperature mods, they aren't useful currently because armor gives 80 resistance (IIRC) right now to avoid needing those slots since we're so limited on slots now. But once they complete the new weather and environmental system, that will change. The mods are still here because they'll probably still be used in the new system. Spending time removing them from all the loot tables only to have to add them back later isn't a good use of time. Better to just have them be a "trash" item that you can sell to a trader. Not unlike other games with trash items. I'm pretty sure that the supercharger works. It saved a lot of time going 4km back and forth when moving my base. I started without it and finished with it and it definitely saved time. 2 hours ago, anon80 said: Quite agree with this, if 5th armor slot not possible before weather content expansion update, can we have those old clothes turn into armor mod cosmetic at the very least? for example, the Nerd armor chest piece right now, why not have a specific slot for cosmetic only that changes the short pants into long jeans or something? no offense to whoever designed the Nerd set, it's just.. well I'm sure most of us here loved the mix armor set from the previous alpha, so having an option to wear something else instead short pants that coming with chest pieces would be nice. The only chance for something like that will come with the wardrobe system. It would be nice, but we'll see how they implement that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laran Mithras Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 2 hours ago, Riamus said: All you end up with doing that is to create a min/max situation Do you really believe there is no min-max in 7DTD? You likely don't really believe that and the comment was just a quick way to dismiss the idea. Nothing will ever stop players from min-maxing. Likewise, nothing will ever stop some players from roleplaying deliberate design weaknesses. As for "tank in the middle of the road during Blood Moon" disadvantage ideas... +Cop spit takes away 50% of armor health on metal (tanky) armor +Successive hits received greater chance of infection +Successive hits increased chance of fatigue +Double Food and Drink drain +Chance of Sprain +Chance of Concussion +Demo explosions result in Stun +Double Cold/Heat penalty "Greater/increased chance" = more than normal. Those disadvantages would definitely stop me from wearing metal tank armor. Would it stop min-maxers? Nothing will ever stop min-maxers. ETA: my opinion on metal armors - all heavies should have a minimum 2-point penalty to Agility. Perhaps 1 point to Perception. Whatever the case, I hope the avalanche of armor nerfs works out. Edited July 5 by Laran Mithras (see edit history) 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Laran Mithras said: Do you really believe there is no min-max in 7DTD? You likely don't really believe that and the comment was just a quick way to dismiss the idea. Nothing will ever stop players from min-maxing. Likewise, nothing will ever stop some players from roleplaying deliberate design weaknesses. As for "tank in the middle of the road during Blood Moon" disadvantage ideas... +Cop spit takes away 50% of armor health on metal (tanky) armor +Successive hits received greater chance of infection +Successive hits increased chance of fatigue +Double Food and Drink drain +Chance of Sprain +Chance of Concussion +Demo explosions result in Stun +Double Cold/Heat penalty "Greater/increased chance" = more than normal. Those disadvantages would definitely stop me from wearing metal tank armor. Would it stop min-maxers? Nothing will ever stop min-maxers. ETA: my opinion on metal armors - all heavies should have a minimum 2-point penalty to Agility. Perhaps 1 point to Perception. Whatever the case, I hope the avalanche of armor nerfs works out. Yes just yes. thats how it should work Edited July 5 by Adam the Waster (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWORDY Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 56 minutes ago, Laran Mithras said: +Successive hits increased chance of fatigue +Double Food and Drink drain +Chance of Sprain +Demo explosions result in Stun +Double Cold/Heat penalty I like those points. I think that even with boosts a given player should never be able to sprint, or even run in heavy armor. Jogging should be a max speed. A fall should result in broken legs and increased fatigue if a player has a full backpack, and drops down in heavy armor. Also, some activities like reload speed and ADSing with a weapon shall take longer than in medium or light armor, or without any armor. A penalty to Heat/Cold is welcome. Without mods players in heavy armor should not be able to function in the Desert or Snow biome at all. Powerhits should cost at least 2x stamina in heavy armor. Maintenance of heavy armor must be more expensive than medium or light armor. Right now heavy armor with a few pills grants a player almost immortality. There will be always min-maxing as long as there are players still playing the game... but balancing the armor out at least initially is easier than anybody thinks. Heavy armor shall grant better blunt or projectile protection. At the same time, a player should be more vulnerable to other dangers and become an easier target to hit. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Old Crow Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 On 7/4/2024 at 10:30 AM, Annihilatorza said: Who at the TFP hates the heavy armour. Please fix the heavy armour, you guys have nerfed way it way to hard, it only give you like 7 extra armour for the whole set and 60% more stamina drain and 50% movement speed reduction, Over medium armour And you can't fit the banded armour mod for some reason. It's simply not worth wearing at this point over medium due how little benefit vs cost. The nerf is the fact you can't put banded armor plating or armor plating mods on heavy armor anymore. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TWORDY Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 This video sums up v1.0 perfectly fine. 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Riamus Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 (edited) 3 hours ago, Laran Mithras said: Do you really believe there is no min-max in 7DTD? You likely don't really believe that and the comment was just a quick way to dismiss the idea. Nothing will ever stop players from min-maxing. Likewise, nothing will ever stop some players from roleplaying deliberate design weaknesses. As for "tank in the middle of the road during Blood Moon" disadvantage ideas... +Cop spit takes away 50% of armor health on metal (tanky) armor +Successive hits received greater chance of infection +Successive hits increased chance of fatigue +Double Food and Drink drain +Chance of Sprain +Chance of Concussion +Demo explosions result in Stun +Double Cold/Heat penalty "Greater/increased chance" = more than normal. Those disadvantages would definitely stop me from wearing metal tank armor. Would it stop min-maxers? Nothing will ever stop min-maxers. ETA: my opinion on metal armors - all heavies should have a minimum 2-point penalty to Agility. Perhaps 1 point to Perception. Whatever the case, I hope the avalanche of armor nerfs works out. Now this offers something more than you originally stated. This doesn't leave it wide open to just swap armor to be invincible. Still, I can't see them adding so many debuffs to armor. And I didn't say there wasn't min/max already, but that doesn't mean it should be added so obviously. In any case, I think armor should just be balanced. More armor at each class, with less mobility and more noise as it already was, but without being able to get resistance over 80% including with the armor mod installed. Yes, only 80%. Just my preference even as a heavy armor wearer. Armor shouldn't leave you basically immune to damage or have it reduced so much that it is almost impossible to die. Edited July 5 by Riamus (see edit history) 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 5 Share Posted July 5 I hope they soon add the bike armor. And I wonder why they didn't add armor for the 4x4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Laz Man Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 1 hour ago, Adam the Waster said: I hope they soon add the bike armor. And I wonder why they didn't add armor for the 4x4 The plow is technically the armor. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Adam the Waster Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 (edited) 1 minute ago, Laz Man said: The plow is technically the armor. Awww man. No extra armor! Oh well at least it's armor. Kinda strange they made one mod just for the 4x4 then just using the arnor but hey! I'm Ok with it Edited July 6 by Adam the Waster (see edit history) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FramFramson Posted July 6 Share Posted July 6 4 hours ago, Adam the Waster said: I hope they soon add the bike armor. And I wonder why they didn't add armor for the 4x4 They said bike armour will not be coming because the model was actually made incorrectly (two separate models), and the code won't support it and also "armour on a bicycle is dumb". Still hoping the storage mods won't take too long to implement. They're not cancelled or anything at least, just delayed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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