All melee weapons actually viable

[Sentient Potato]

I've been playing since Alpha 14 give or take and one issue I've always had is how wishy washy the fun pimps can be with melee weapons. Is it too much to ask that they actually make all the melee weapons viable? Like an axe should actually be viable against zombies and so should the knives and whatnot but they aren't. It's almost like the fun pimps in my eyes can't decide what they actually want out of the weapons and can't really decide whether or not they're gonna make the weapons good. Like maybe I'm too much into deadliest warrior but like you'd be surprised the utility of things. 

[meganoth]

That axes are not very viable as weapons has a simple balancing reason: Since they also are very good resource tools (naturally for wood, but also meat) they would be OP if they were equally good as dedicated melee weapons.

 

This was already practically tested before: Axes were nearly as good as other melee weapons in an earlier alpha and practically everyone (including madmole himself) was only using axes. Because you saved one of the toolbelt slots, and because you could open doors and kill zombies without changing weapons. 

 

 

[BFT2020]

As a player that typically uses knives as my primary weapon, I can state that they are viable in-game.

[zztong]

I've seen a number of newbs on Twitch use an axe as a weapon. I doesn't seem clear to many people that in the game an axe is supposed to be just a tool. I wouldn't say the game needs to cater to axe as a melee weapon with a full line of skills, but I can see why a player would feel like it was a reasonable choice compared to a wooden club or a pipe baton. By the same measure, a pick would seem to be a good melee weapon, but as far as the game is concerned: axe, pick, shovel and torch are all improvised weapons.

 

Even more confusing, the sledge is a weapon. Hmm, maybe that's the answer... maybe axe, pick, and shovel should all be considered part of the "sledge" family.

[meilodasreh]

46 minutes ago, BFT2020 said:

As a player that typically uses knives as my primary weapon, I can state that they are viable in-game.

Yes here too, although I have to say that in A21 there are many more of those situations where you are suddenly swarmed by a whole bunch of Zs, and in these "oh sh!$ situations" even a fully perked/modded/specced into machete is rather underwhelming compared to e.g. a MP-5.

But yes that's how it should naturally be, isn't it?

I mean the one thing is a blade, the other a full-auto gun, guess what spits more doom.

So I don't really complain. You can't rely just on melee, maybe that works in early gamestages, and also later for your "common combat situations",

but someday you will need some real firepower, cause the sh!$ WILL hit the fan 😄

[Riamus]

8 hours ago, zztong said:

I've seen a number of newbs on Twitch use an axe as a weapon. I doesn't seem clear to many people that in the game an axe is supposed to be just a tool. I wouldn't say the game needs to cater to axe as a melee weapon with a full line of skills, but I can see why a player would feel like it was a reasonable choice compared to a wooden club or a pipe baton. By the same measure, a pick would seem to be a good melee weapon, but as far as the game is concerned: axe, pick, shovel and torch are all improvised weapons.

 

Even more confusing, the sledge is a weapon. Hmm, maybe that's the answer... maybe axe, pick, and shovel should all be considered part of the "sledge" family.

I think the issue is with the battle axe.  A fireman's axe or stone axe don't really scream weapon.  Sure, they can be used as that, but they really feel more like tools.  A battle axe, however, is absolutely a weapon and not a tool.  It was a bad choice for a tier 3 tool, imo.  Players are going to think it's meant to be a normal weapon.  I know that when I first started playing, when I saw one for the first time, I didn't realize it was an upgrade to the stone axe or fire axe at first.  I thought it was a weapon because that's what a battle axe is.  There really isn't any reason to be surprised that new players think it's a weapon.

[RhinoW]

7 hours ago, Riamus said:

I think the issue is with the battle axe.  A fireman's axe or stone axe don't really scream weapon.  Sure, they can be used as that, but they really feel more like tools.  A battle axe, however, is absolutely a weapon and not a tool.  It was a bad choice for a tier 3 tool, imo.  Players are going to think it's meant to be a normal weapon.  I know that when I first started playing, when I saw one for the first time, I didn't realize it was an upgrade to the stone axe or fire axe at first.  I thought it was a weapon because that's what a battle axe is.  There really isn't any reason to be surprised that new players think it's a weapon.

100% with you on this. When I saw the first sneak peek of the axe, I was so hyped for a new weapon, and suddenly its just a boring ass resource gathering tool. It feels like the devs didn't thoroughly communicate the purpose of the weapon and simply told the artists "make a cool post apocalyptic axe". 

 

And same thing goes with the steel knuckles, why the hell are they spiked? Such a wasted opportunity to allow the metal spikes mod to also be installed on the knuckles.

[zztong]

8 hours ago, Riamus said:

I think the issue is with the battle axe.

 

That's a good point, and if that's the only issue then changing the graphic might be enough.

 

Though at the beginning of the game, if you were to find an iron axe early I could see why you might conclude (based on the icon and name) that it was better than a Q1 club.

[BFT2020]

Hmmm, the game needs some sort of user interface that displays how well the item does against say blocks vs entities.....then people can see how the axe does against zombies when compared to other melee items.....

 

oh wait.....🤷‍♂️

[RhinoW]

4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:

Hmmm, the game needs some sort of user interface that displays how well the item does against say blocks vs entities.....then people can see how the axe does against zombies when compared to other melee items.....

 

oh wait.....🤷‍♂️

You completely missed the point.

[EggsAisle]

That, and the stat screen is tucked behind an inconspicuous little icon that neither the UI nor the tutorial do a good job of pointing out. It's pretty easy for new players to miss.

 

I agree with the battle axe criticisms and the above reasoning. I've never liked the model besides, it's way too huge and bulky compared to... uh... every other wieldable item, essentially. But I can't stand the comically-oversized weapon aesthetic in general, so I'm not really neutral in that respect. 

 

As for actual weapons, I think they've done a pretty good job of making all the melee weapons viable. In A21 I've run with knives, spears, and fists at the higher difficulty levels and they all put in good work. I don't miss the spear throw at all; I applaud the attempt, but it felt very janky and I never had much fun with it. I haven't tried clubs since A19 but nothing leads me to believe they're any weaker. And stun batons have always been reliable, if sometimes slow; I don't use them because the visual blowout and sound effect from the stun proc are so over-the-top that it's viscerally unpleasant. Drove me completely nuts last time I tried an Int build. No one else seems to comment on it, though, so I'll either figure out how to mod it out or just not play Int.