I only want ONE feature for A21!

[KieranDevvs]

Please.... For the love of the flying spaghetti monster... Improve the performance of the game!

 

It's so CPU bound its unreal. 

Spend an entire year on it if need be. If you need a 2nd round of funding to outsource the work, i'd be more than happy to buy the game again to contribute towards it.

Just do something... Anything...
 

 

[Matt115]

It will be done when this game will be in beta

[KieranDevvs]

1 hour ago, Matt115 said:

It will be done when this game will be in beta

I asked in a live stream a year or so ago and the devs said they weren't planning on doing any optimisations. Has this changed or is this your assumption?

[Matt115]

Just now, KieranDevvs said:

I asked in a live stream a year or so ago and the devs said they weren't planning on doing anymore optimisations. Has this changed or is this your assumption?

Yep, water overhaul for example is planned. So - a some things will done to work better 

[AtomicUs5000]

3 minutes ago, KieranDevvs said:

I asked in a live stream a year or so ago and the devs said they weren't planning on doing any optimisations. Has this changed or is this your assumption?

 
I'm pretty sure they meant not while in Alpha. This isn't to say that nothing is ever optimized though. I've seen them make improvements over the years, just enough to ensure new content can get put in. It would just be wasteful to put effort into fully optimizing when they are still in the stages of adding content, only to have to do it over and over again until it finally goes Beta.

[Maharin]

Somebody optimizes something somewhere in the code frequently, I bet (as a former programmer, that's the way I did it).  It's the full system optimization that will wait until every game system is in place and stabilized to a reasonable level.  Otherwise, you're just wasting time.

[Rotor]

5 minutes ago, Maharin said:

 (as a former programmer, that's the way I did it). 

 

Frankie, is that you?

[Maharin]

My real name is Leopold Reynolds Absinthe.

[Rotor]

I admit, I looked it up to see what rabbit hole you had dreched up :).

 

 

[Matt115]

2 minutes ago, Rotor said:

I admit, I looked it up to see what rabbit hole you had dreched up :).

 

 

yes yes... better is to get into Łódz ( THIS IS PLACE WITH NO RETURN!)

[Maharin]

Did you find anything?  I just made that up so it's possible. 

 

 

[Rotor]

GIN!...not the game ... or some Aghata Christie obscure villain.

 

NO WAY! You made it up.

 

You dont seem the villain type, therefor...

[Maharin]

My mind is too disorganized to be a villain.  The voices don't talk to each other but they do talk to themselves.  This is good because I get to eavesdrop so I know what I'm thinking.  It's only problematic when they all go silent at the same time.

[pApA^LeGBa]

Like already said, full optimization is done in beta when everything is in the game.

 

I only have lags downtown and during hordenight with more than 16 zombies. AMD R5 3600 with 16GB RAM @3200Mhz CL15. Downtown will hopefully at least get a bit of optimization in A21. It´s not the FPS drops, those don´t go under 35FPS usually, mostly between 40 and 45FPS, wich isn´t optimal but very playable, it´s the stuttering lag that makes it so bad in cities downtown.

 

When i am not in downtown or horde night, i get stable 60FPS, even when i use the ultra preset.

 

@KieranDevvs Take a look here for some tips that might help: https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/1/3190241086281294394/

[Matt115]

10 minutes ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

Like already said, full optimization is done in beta when everything is in the game.

 

I only have lags downtown and during hordenight with more than 16 zombies. AMD R5 3600 with 16GB RAM @3200Mhz CL15. Downtown will hopefully at least get a bit of optimization in A21. It´s not the FPS drops, those don´t go under 35FPS usually, mostly between 40 and 45FPS, wich isn´t optimal but very playable, it´s the stuttering lag that makes it so bad in cities downtown.

 

When i am not in downtown or horde night, i get stable 60FPS, even when i use the ultra preset.

 

@KieranDevvs Take a look here for some tips that might help: https://steamcommunity.com/app/251570/discussions/1/3190241086281294394/

Honestly i don't undesrtand people. In past 30 fps was standard and now 45 fps is not enough for them. Honestly i don't see any diffrence bettween 60 and 30 fps xd 

[SylenThunder]

Just going to drop this here since it's relevant...

 

• What is the difference between a Voxel game, and all the other games I play?
• Why do I get such low FPS on this when I can play _______ just fine at full settings?

[pApA^LeGBa]

@SylenThunder It´s the stuttering in downtown. Just 30-45FPS is ok, but it shouldn´t be the goal for TFP tbh. I propably wouldn´t even recognize it many times if it wasn´t for those mini freezes. Those shouldn´t happen at all no matter how different voxel games and 7D2D are.  And i never had that stuttering in any other voxel game i played so far.

[Matt115]

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@SylenThunder It´s the stuttering in downtown. Just 30-45FPS is ok, but it shouldn´t be the goal for TFP tbh. I propably wouldn´t even recognize it many times if it wasn´t for those mini freezes. Those shouldn´t happen at all no matter how different voxel games and 7D2D are.  And i never had that stuttering in any other voxel game i played so far.

Random drops of FPS happens in a lot of games even not voxels ones -  LOTR battle of north iron fortress is good example. So this is pretty normal and there is a big problem to do something with this

[pApA^LeGBa]

@Matt115 It´s not the FPS drops that bother me. It´s the stuttering lag, the mini freezes happening in downtown. There is low FPS and there is lag. Two different things. Lag shouldn´t happen at all.

[KieranDevvs]

12 hours ago, SylenThunder said:

Just going to drop this here since it's relevant...

 

• What is the difference between a Voxel game, and all the other games I play?
• Why do I get such low FPS on this when I can play _______ just fine at full settings?

I'm happy that i've read that you're going to be working on performance at some point in the future and it answers my concern of this post but I do want to address some comments I heavily disagree with. 

Voxel games are in some ways more demanding, yes, however:
1) There are plenty of games that are voxel based that perform way better than this: Empyrion galactic survival, Minecraft with mods, Teardown, Space Engineers, ect.
2) This game was initially released in 2013. We've had almost 10 years of hardware advancements and yet the game runs worse than previous alphas (this is somewhat to be expected as more features and graphical capabilities are introduced but we should be seeing improvements overall, not regressions). I can use a Intel 7th gen quad core CPU or a 12 core Ryzen 5 5900x and see very little change. I can use a GTX 1080 or a 3080 and see again, very little difference. 

If your GPU rasterization is faster than the physics / update cycle of the engine, you end up seeing that your CPU is throttling your system because it can't keep up with the frequency GPU draw calls.
If your GPU rasterization is slower than the physics / update cycle of the engine, you end up seeing that your GPU is throttling your system because the draw calls can't complete fast enough to keep up.
What we're actually seeing is under utilisation of both the GPU and CPU which indicates bad hardware scaling.

 

14 hours ago, Matt115 said:

Honestly i don't undesrtand people. In past 30 fps was standard and now 45 fps is not enough for them. Honestly i don't see any diffrence bettween 60 and 30 fps xd 

30 FPS was standard in 5th gen consoles, 15 years ago. 60fps is the standard and has been on PC for well over a decade. Consoles have only just recently adopted 60fps but nonetheless, its the standard everywhere. That's why phones have 90-120hz screens, thats why theres a huge market for high refresh rate monitors and that's why YouTube spends millions every month, serving the entire world videos in 1080p 60fps or higher. Have you tried to play a VR game in less than 60fps? Yeah you can't. Why? Because it induces motion sickness.

https://fast.wistia.net/embed/iframe/16y5zaztga

If you can't tell the difference then good for you, however, the rest of the population can.
I'll be looking forward to playing this game again once its not a slide show in cities.

1 hour ago, pApA^LeGBa said:

@Matt115 It´s not the FPS drops that bother me. It´s the stuttering lag, the mini freezes happening in downtown. There is low FPS and there is lag. Two different things. Lag shouldn´t happen at all.

Lag is terminology that usually describes network latency.

Stuttering / freezing when rasterizing is most commonly caused by poor IO (input/output) performance, main causes are not enough RAM so the system has to write to the page file (disk), or slow disk speeds when streaming resources into RAM, or not enough memory on the GPU so it has to keep dumping data and loading new data in frequently in order to rasterize.

It's usually not related to the performance of the game unless they're doing some very odd logic.

[Maharin]

I'm waiting for the C64 port of 7DTD.  It will be epic...ally slow.  I suspect it will be at least 60 HPF (hours per frame).

[SylenThunder]

9 hours ago, KieranDevvs said:

1) There are plenty of games that are voxel based that perform way better than this: Empyrion galactic survival, Minecraft with mods, Teardown, Space Engineers, ect.

Not a single one of those is nearly as complex as 7 Days is, and the only one that's fully 3D Voxel is Minecraft. Space Engineers seems complex because of the sheer number of stuff that it has. Except that SI calculations are only on the ships, and are rather limited at that. It's got nearly zero enemy AI, and 90% of the world isn't even voxel-based.

Empyrion falls into a similar bucket, except that it's got a little more on the Voxels, and a lot less in complexity.

Minecraft is so powerful that you cannot even have a glow to the torch because the calculations required to render it will crash Java.

7 Days on the other hand, is a 100% 3D Voxel game. With complex structural integrity calculations, a much more complex AI, and several other systems running in the background that not a single one of those games even has.

Which is exactly why 7 Days is so demanding on the core components of your system, and most of the others only care about your GPU.

 

9 hours ago, KieranDevvs said:

2) This game was initially released in 2013.

Incorrect.  This game entered Alpha development in 2013. It has not been released yet.

It has not even entered Beta development, where the focus is on optimization and bug fixing. They're still working on the core foundation of the game.

As it has grown, and features are added, engine updated, ect. The min spec required has increased. As such the store pages were updated to reflect this. I forsee at least one more change before it does release.

 

9 hours ago, KieranDevvs said:

I can use a Intel 7th gen quad core CPU or a 12 core Ryzen 5 5900x and see very little change. I can use a GTX 1080 or a 3080 and see again, very little difference. 

Ok, now you're really in my ballpark.

Firstly the 7th gen Intel chipsets are mostly junk. My 3rd gen would run circles around a 7700k even when it was overclocked. Somewhere around here there are thread both here and on Steam where I posted heavily detailed comparisons with a number a variations in builds.

The 12-core Ryzen is great for doing a lot of different things. It's completely wasted on games though as they focus on a single core. I can guaruntee that you will see a difference between the 7th gen intel and the 4th gen Ryzen if you actually have both systems optimized properly. I have comparisons going from a Core 2 Quad Q6600 all the way up to an R9 3900X. GPU's in use vary from a GTX650 up to 1070's in SLI. 

Also note that since the game is not GPU-bound, it really doesn't matter if you have a 1070 or a 3090 in the long run. 

 

And if you're going to blame bad hardware scaling, maybe you could have started to convince game engine developers a little over ten years ago to start utilizing hyperthreading and offering multi-core support. It's not until literally just a year or so ago that Unity started to support more than a single core, and even that is extremely limited.

 

10 hours ago, KieranDevvs said:

30 FPS was standard in 5th gen consoles, 15 years ago. 60fps is the standard and has been on PC for well over a decade.

Technically it was the standard until last year in Consoles.

60 FPS has been the standard for recommended system requirements for about the past five years. Min-spec standard is still 30.

That said though, my old Q6600 is still capable of 60FPS. It's not pretty, but it's a min-spec system. At least it can still do it at 1080p instead of having to drop to 760p.

 

10 hours ago, KieranDevvs said:

Lag is terminology that usually describes network latency.

 

Amen. I am so tired of people constantly mis-using these phrases out of ignorance. I even covered it in detail in the FAQ thread I linked earlier.

[Matt115]

34 minutes ago, SylenThunder said:

Not a single one of those is nearly as complex as 7 Days is, and the only one that's fully 3D Voxel is Minecraft. Space Engineers seems complex because of the sheer number of stuff that it has. Except that SI calculations are only on the ships, and are rather limited at that. It's got nearly zero enemy AI, and 90% of the world isn't even voxel-based.

Empyrion falls into a similar bucket, except that it's got a little more on the Voxels, and a lot less in complexity.

Minecraft is so powerful that you cannot even have a glow to the torch because the calculations required to render it will crash Java.

7 Days on the other hand, is a 100% 3D Voxel game. With complex structural integrity calculations, a much more complex AI, and several other systems running in the background that not a single one of those games even has.

Which is exactly why 7 Days is so demanding on the core components of your system, and most of the others only care about your GPU.

 

Incorrect.  This game entered Alpha development in 2013. It has not been released yet.

It has not even entered Beta development, where the focus is on optimization and bug fixing. They're still working on the core foundation of the game.

As it has grown, and features are added, engine updated, ect. The min spec required has increased. As such the store pages were updated to reflect this. I forsee at least one more change before it does release.

 

Ok, now you're really in my ballpark.

Firstly the 7th gen Intel chipsets are mostly junk. My 3rd gen would run circles around a 7700k even when it was overclocked. Somewhere around here there are thread both here and on Steam where I posted heavily detailed comparisons with a number a variations in builds.

The 12-core Ryzen is great for doing a lot of different things. It's completely wasted on games though as they focus on a single core. I can guaruntee that you will see a difference between the 7th gen intel and the 4th gen Ryzen if you actually have both systems optimized properly. I have comparisons going from a Core 2 Quad Q6600 all the way up to an R9 3900X. GPU's in use vary from a GTX650 up to 1070's in SLI. 

Also note that since the game is not GPU-bound, it really doesn't matter if you have a 1070 or a 3090 in the long run. 

 

And if you're going to blame bad hardware scaling, maybe you could have started to convince game engine developers a little over ten years ago to start utilizing hyperthreading and offering multi-core support. It's not until literally just a year or so ago that Unity started to support more than a single core, and even that is extremely limited.

 

Technically it was the standard until last year in Consoles.

60 FPS has been the standard for recommended system requirements for about the past five years. Min-spec standard is still 30.

That said though, my old Q6600 is still capable of 60FPS. It's not pretty, but it's a min-spec system. At least it can still do it at 1080p instead of having to drop to 760p.

 

 

Amen. I am so tired of people constantly mis-using these phrases out of ignorance. I even covered it in detail in the FAQ thread I linked earlier.

1. i totaly agree about that... well i usually have something like "but..." but this time i agree 100% about that. 

2. <sigh> are you tired too about that? i mean - people rly thing that 2013 is year of 7dtd release xd idk how they don't see big sigh on steam "Early access"

6. (yep i skip   ) so - 30 is still standard - well quality mode in most games mean 30 fps + raytracing

7. you are both wrong! Lag - it's person who can't hit ball while playing football! ( even i sometimes joking )

[John Black]

I don’t expect major optimizations, but the current situation definitely warrant some investigation. The voxels are fine, they run fine until you add zombies into the mix. So there is some serious AI, SI or zombie animation code blocking the rendering pipeline. I can’t peg my GPU or any processor even when force running at 2core + 2HT in town when dropping below 60fps. The current situation is screaming for a profile and when performance gets this out of hand some minor change(s) can usually have a profound effect.

 

I would rather have SI, AI a couple of frames behind or even reduced animations than dipping down to 30-40 fps when the @%$# is hitting the fan.

[Matt115]

14 hours ago, John Black said:

I don’t expect major optimizations, but the current situation definitely warrant some investigation. The voxels are fine, they run fine until you add zombies into the mix. So there is some serious AI, SI or zombie animation code blocking the rendering pipeline. I can’t peg my GPU or any processor even when force running at 2core + 2HT in town when dropping below 60fps. The current situation is screaming for a profile and when performance gets this out of hand some minor change(s) can usually have a profound effect.

 

I would rather have SI, AI a couple of frames behind or even reduced animations than dipping down to 30-40 fps when the @%$# is hitting the fan.

Well 30 fps is good enough - for years it was standard so... better to have stable 30 and better animations