Quest system rework idea / suggest a mod

[emBee]

I am of the opinion that the current quest system is both too strong and exploitative feeling but also breaks one of the things I value most which is the sense of immersion - I have always loved about the game that POIs and routes through POIs are more or less whatever you want - I went back to play Fallout for example and not being able to just chop out a door was so silly feeling. But I think that the mechanism of a quest "resetting a POI" creates an easy loop to loot a house (or nerd pile up to the end loot if you know where it is) trigger the quest and reset the POI and do it again; you can endlessly 'farm' POIs for mats, instead of creating a natural pressure to expand and explore new areas to scavenge. 

 

I think opening trade routes is a good idea; I think you could possibly keep Buried Supplies (esp now with the changes) as long as it was a limited number to prevent holes-regrowing if you selected the same spot twice; and I think you scrap fetch, clear, and power. (Its cool to see a new one but it really doesn't add much, imo) : in their place, you put maybe something like supply requests at traders : lower tiers ask for smaller quantities or more common materials; higher tiers ask for harder to find ones. You could add POI-specific items to scrap or loot (sink parts, valves, whatever) to encourage exploration of new POIs; you could add "zombie eyes" as a lootable for killing quests; you could add some zombie part that only drops from some zombies (cop hats? biker vests?) or at night only? to encourage other kinds of dynamics. I think keeping the "tier completion" level is good too but could be tuned.

 

I know I can just not do them, or not do them in the exploit-y way, but I was just hoping for something a little more "in game" feeling. If there's an existing mod that does some or any of that I'd love to hear of it.

[ElDudorino]

I like the clear/fetch quests and removing them in favor of WoW-style "gather 12 chicken gizzards" quests sounds awful to me.  I do somewhat agree that resetting PoIs is very slightly problematic, but the devs could always add in something like once a PoI has been cleared (either inside a quest or outside of one), you could be forced to go back and defend it from being overrun again.  Maybe along with an NPC defender.  Obviously this would have to happen after NPCs are added.  Or maybe you'd have to patrol a certain area at night and keep the dead occupied so they don't go after certain buildings.  There's definitely more they could do with quests or just in-game objectives in general.

 

I don't have a mod to suggest unfortunately.

[emBee]

Yeah, not the WoW gizzards or at least not too much of the "grind X skills to get Y things"; say at T1 you get to a trader who has a set of "resupply" objectives: they need 3000 clay, 250 glass jars, 125 raw meat, 2000 wood, and will also take 20 zombie heads as proof of your good deeds. You complete 75% of the requests and it completes your T1;  maybe T2 is looking for 100 forged iron, 200 bullet tips >> I don't know but generally things that are scavengable craftable or mineable. Maybe one or more of the options is sort of "you can find faucets in residential houses" or something else that walks players from low level POIs to high level POIs.

 

I hope we get more NPC / raider / faction interaction at some point. That would be great!

[Darklegend222]

POIs reset so that you can gather a quest there. Imagine you travel 4km to a skyscraper you can't quest at because someone decided to destroy it. What fun would that be? Not getting to quest where you want, and not being able to use your daring adventurer perk.

 

I would that y'all stop the "exploiting" and double-looting, then coming here and saying it breaks immersion. I haven't double looted since A19.4 and I'm loving it. I've even gone as far as to turn loot abundance to 75%. It really makes you appreciate the loot when you need it.

 

Not having a wrench until day 5-6 really puts a damper on my pipe bomb crafting, but it doesn't hurt enough to make my 5 stacks un-craftable before day 7.

 

I definitely agree with the buried supplies though, I put frames around every hole that I dig so I don't drive into them. Pulling a buried supplies twice a day really adds up, especially if you get them right in the middle of a road.

 

I don't know how I feel about the zombie parts for completion as horde nights will take care of them. There's not really a good way to balance quest progression out that I can think of. I really dislike the change to make traders have their own individual questline because spending 10 nights at a new rooftop while questing at a new trader and ferrying materials around from base to base is just boring. So I've never gotten a second trader npc to tier 2.

 

Why would they send me to a new trader, then that trader rewards me with exp, but the new trader doesn't give me higher tier quests. Surely they need me to help right? Guess not if they won't pay better.

[emBee]

As I said in the initial post I get that there's the option to just not do quests at all; to clarify its the "magically heal a building" that I find immersion breaking. The double looting is a choice, I know. 

I also understand that for the current framework of quests, the POI needs to be reset to a known state in order to make the conditions of the quest doable; if we still had quests in the game, but POIs didn't reset, then the nature of questing would have to change - that is not be so tied to a specific POI, or tied to finding a fedex box, or tied to clearing zombies in some specific circle where we now know there are zombies. I was suggesting some alternatives that would maybe meet those goals.

 

Agree that traders on separate tiers is a little strange (aren't we expanding a 'trade network'? Maybe the reward is you can see other trader's inventories and request items to be delivered from a remote trader you've connected for a time and a fee?) And also that you can redo the Tier completion awards at each trader seems a little odd. 

[Jinx_DG]

On 2/22/2022 at 7:08 AM, emBee said:

then the nature of questing would have to change - that is not be so tied to a specific POI, or tied to finding a fedex box, or tied to clearing zombies in some specific circle where we now know there are zombies. I was suggesting some alternatives that would maybe meet those goals.

What you're proposing is a complete re-working to one of the games core features. I can understand why you're wanting alternatives, and I do see some potential in a few you've made. With that said, I don't see TFP scrapping the questing mechanics for a complete re-work, nor would I want them to as I, along with quite a few others I believe, enjoy the current questing overall. Could it be tweaked and refined, absolutely! 

 

Now if you want to talked about incorporating some of those suggestion so it works with the current system that would be better, imho.  So....  Knowing how the questing currently works (to the degree that we can), which suggestions do you think would be compatible, or at least not require a re-work, and would appeal to a majority of players? Keep in mind in general,  players Love to get New Things in their game, but Hate that Changes have been made. 

[8_Hussars]

On 2/26/2022 at 7:23 AM, Jinx_DG said:

What you're proposing is a complete re-working to one of the games core features. I can understand why you're wanting alternatives, and I do see some potential in a few you've made.

Why not multiple systems?

Although not entirely thought out (or balanced within vanilla), a barter quest system would be interesting.  Where a player can choose an object (a tool, a weapon, or a schematic for example) before hand, and trade a predetermined series of goods and services ("gather 12 chicken gizzards"and fetch/clear this POI) for it.

The capability already exists within the game but is not widely discussed.  The White River - Tools of Citizenship Quests already makes a great start. The Joke mod incorporates the previous "note paper" quest feature through a the Quest Bulletin Board feature to provide new and modified quests (e.g Ladykiller Challenge).  The ReQuests mod does the same and there was a web based design tool (seems to be gone) to support custom and structured multiple stage quest design.

[lil_joha]

as to reseting buildings.  You must be doing single player game.  Play with a person who strips the building completely and your glad it resets so YOU can actuly do the quest and get to see the building in all its glory.

 

 

[Kam R.]

They should add the framework to only spawn "end room loot" when you activate a quest at a POI and make the containers poof after looting.

They should also add the framework to randomize the position of said end loot.

That would give quests some weight and value without the double looting cheese [at least for the mother lode part of it, the basic crap can be double looted for all I care that @%$# is everywhere anyway]. And some variation that to some degree prevents the nerdpole stuff. 

[meganoth]

21 minutes ago, Kam R. said:

They should add the framework to only spawn "end room loot" when you activate a quest at a POI and make the containers poof after looting.

They should also add the framework to randomize the position of said end loot.

That would give quests some weight and value without the double looting cheese [at least for the mother lode part of it, the basic crap can be double looted for all I care that @%$# is everywhere anyway]. And some variation that to some degree prevents the nerdpole stuff. 

 

You think quests have not enough weight and value? Anyone I know is doing nothing but quests. (And we don't even double-dip or nerdpole to loot rooms)

 

Don't disagree about the variation, that would be nice. But notice that the new POIs now usually come with relatively well-defended loot-rooms where you have to use a key or open a garage door to get out again. You need to invest some time getting into the loot-room and you better have some mining skills

 

[Roland]

When you activate the quest marker, turn your back to the POI so you can't witness the change.

 

The main problem is multiplayer. The quest marker also doubles as a rally point so that everyone who is going to go on the quest is together at the time the quest begins. You need some coordinating mechanism in place for that. It doesn't work with a trigger that resets the house while you are on route but not quite there to prevent you from witnessing the change since people often travel to the quest from different places and at different times. It has to be a mechanism for starting the quest once everyone has arrived and is standing within the quest zone. Then activate, the POI resets, and everyone quests. I can't think of a way around that other than as I half seriously suggested above everyone closes their eyes or turns so their POV is not looking where the change occurs.

[Jinx_DG]

4 minutes ago, Roland said:

The quest marker also doubles as a rally point so that everyone who is going to go on the quest is together at the time the quest begins. You need some coordinating mechanism in place for that.

Even with that getting everyone to stay by it so it can be activated comes with it's own challenge. I'm just going to peek in until everyone is here.... I'm going over here to do "this" until everyone is here.... Lol.