Should TFP just remove the stealth perks entirely?

[Scyris]

I am asking this because pretty much every room just about in most poi's has zombies that just gps to you the second you enter, if they don't they are always behind furnature or in those stupid closets. Stealth should be a viable build but the devs seem adamant at doing anything that can to make it a waste of the players time to even try. Do you think they should just remove the stealth perks and just be done with it already? I'm starting to think so, as the perks are useless when zombies gps to you second you walk into a room. I mean clearing a poi via stealth is already MUCH slower than going in guns blazing, so I don't feel the need to penalize it more by making these triggered zombie volumes aggro on room entry. I liked this game because I could be a sneaky zombie destroyer, but lately, its getting less and less viable due to sleeper position changes and the above mentioned triggered rooms. Doing this poi office 4, and so far every single room had a sleeper volume with sleepers hidden behind things so you cannot get a clear shot, and second you walk into the room no matter how high your stealth perks they just lockon and know your there.

 

I don't know but it seems the devs keep doing things to ruin stealth builds, I don't mind zombies picking up on noise easier (as they very well do in A20), but the whole triggered auto-aggro zombie volumes almost every room needs to stop. As well as hiding every sleeper behind a closet door, or behind objects just so that you can't get a clear shot also needs to stop as its just annoying. Not to mention the zombies always hidden behind objects just looks silly when you know anything about zombie lore. They are supposed to be stupid, not smart enough to hide.

 

This officer_04 poi is a prime example, EVERY single room has zombies falling down from the cieling or sitting behind objects so you cannot shoot them, they also aggro second you walk into the room even if stealth meter is basically at 0. Its just getting stupid lately.

Edited December 12, 2021 by Scyris (see edit history)

[pApA^LeGBa]

I just killed a direwolf at night. No chance without stealth. I shoot an arrow while sneaking, he charged at me, i moved a bit he lost me again. Rinse and repeat until he is dead, he didn´t get close to me once.

 

Stealth is very usefull outside at night. Not everything is about POI´s only.

[Scyris]

Just now, pApA^LeGBa said:

I just killed a direwolf at night. No chance without stealth. I shoot an arrow while sneaking, he charged at me, i moved a bit he lost me again. Rinse and repeat until he is dead, he didn´t get close to me once.

 

Stealth is very usefull outside at night. Not everything is about POI´s only.

 

Well, the main time I am stealthing IS inside poi's there is little reason to be doing it outside when you can outrun most things, not all but most. Its just getting to the point its getting stupid with some of these zombie spawns how perfectly they are placed, and the ones that drop down from the cieling are especially stupid, what the hell was anyone doing up there anyway? They drop down from fake floor blocks that break when the zombie is aggroed. I mean a zombie behind a door I can see, but all these ones in closets, falling from the cieling, always behind objects so you can't get a shot at them is just killing the game for me and others, because of how immersion breaking and silly it is, not to mention the above sleeper volumes where they just charge you second you walk in the room no matter what you do, we need to have some sort of counterplay to that mechanic.

[Darthjake]

2 hours ago, Scyris said:

 

Well, the main time I am stealthing IS inside poi's there is little reason to be doing it outside when you can outrun most things, not all but most. Its just getting to the point its getting stupid with some of these zombie spawns how perfectly they are placed, and the ones that drop down from the cieling are especially stupid, what the hell was anyone doing up there anyway? They drop down from fake floor blocks that break when the zombie is aggroed. I mean a zombie behind a door I can see, but all these ones in closets, falling from the cieling, always behind objects so you can't get a shot at them is just killing the game for me and others, because of how immersion breaking and silly it is, not to mention the above sleeper volumes where they just charge you second you walk in the room no matter what you do, we need to have some sort of counterplay to that mechanic.

 

As I raise my stealth perks, I am finding this less and less, I too was irritated at the drop scare/kill you traps, but now when I enter a POI that I recognize or remember as a drop scare, I stealth through it only making noise to kill Z's and then loot after I think I've cleared it.  Obviously, I've been unpleasantly surprised a few times as Z's that ignored me, and I could not see woke up while I was wrenching stuff down, but 2 Z's at a time is more manageable then  4-5 charging you.

 

That and I break out where they are hiding when I can, doesn't mean much if it is a quest POI, but that way you are only surprised the first time. 

[fabulux]

I never take them, because their use is very limited. If you're clearing POI's and doing POI quests, they are mostly useless. You may be able to get closer to some zeds in a POI, but most are triggered by proximity no matter if you are stealthed.

So, I think TFP really need to take a look at them and see how to make them more relevant or just eliminate them as you suggest.

[enragedcamel]

I agree that triggered encounters inside POIs are intensely annoying. I don't understand why the zombies fall from the ceiling the moment you enter a room if you're stealthed and they wouldn't otherwise be able to hear you. Same with them falling out of wardrobes or any other nonsense. It completely ruins the stealth experience.

 

I understand the need to add some color to the gameplay, but perhaps these encounters should get triggered only if the player makes a mistake such as accidentally step on trash or kick a can. In those cases I wouldn't have an issue with zombies coming crashing through walls — it would actually feel immersive.

[Viktoriusiii]

Yeah this is sadly a trend that doesnt seem to go away anymore.
I complained back in A17 about zombies being placed in the weirdest locations. (like... how did they get inside a fully functioning wall???)
But they are more focused on how the experience is rather than how fun it is (yes these are different. You get into a poi once and they come out of the wall, it is exciting. But after the 5th time you just shoot every wall just in case)

The "auto trigger" should be reserved for very special rooms. Like where you fall from the ceiling into a room of Z's.
Otherwise autotrigger means that exploring a poi as a stealthchar is basicially suicide (at least on higher difficulties), because you don't have anything to fight the Z's with.


EVERYTHING (I said this as well thousands of times) needs to have a clear structure.

-strength
-weakness
-way to overcome weakness/strength

Examples:

Z's:
(good)Screamer:
Pro: can alert more Z's
Contra: very weak

(good)Spider
Pro: very agile/hard to hit/can reach otherwise hard to reach areas/jumpobstacles
Weakness: pretty weak

(bad)Demolition Z'
Pro: high player dmg, high block dmg, super high armor/hp, on death rips open every defense, traps activate the explosion
Contra: - (since shooting his light still triggers his explosion)

Perks:
(good)Strength
Pro: good at mining/building/fighting smaller groups of Z's
Contra: hordes of Z's/special infected

(theoreticially good)Agility
Pro: great at clearing POIs and sneaking around at night
Contra: super weak hordenight

But since sneaking doesn't work anymore, it has lost the only upside to it.
Why would I sneak, if they detect me anyways?
If it was, lets say some sort of alarm that can be lockpicked or a trashpile that could be destroyed, this would give us counterplay again.
But no. Either you just go for the stash because you know where it is and break it open by force, or you are forced to fight zombies.