Limdood Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 I found a level 5 steel sledgehammer in a tier 4 POI... All of the steel sledgehammer parts I'd been trying to save up to eventually make one became instantly worthless...I'd NEVER need them again. The way the game is at this point, even if I spec HARD into a given attribute, I'm STILL more likely to FIND a level 6 version of the weapon/armor/tool I've specced into LONG before I can craft a level 5 one. For finding one...I just have to find it...that's all...or save up and buy one from a trader. For crafting one, I need to hit level 10 in an attribute, level 5 in the governing skill, get access to steel (or military fiber), And after all that I STILL need to find the schematic AND find enough of the item to scrap it several times for enough parts. The RNG for actually crafting a level 5 version of an item is SIGNIFICANTLY harder/more restrictive than finding a level 6 version of that item in loot or a trader inventory...It's currently much harder to accomplish less... I like looting high end items...it's fun...but getting them so quickly (day 11 I think) trivializes some aspects of crafting. I'd honestly love to see TWO top tier items of each type....one that was only craftable, and one that was only lootable. Have them share parts, so that you can scrap the lootable stuff for materials for the craftable stuff....that would introduce a progression of: Tier 1 (crafted primitive) -> Tier 2 (iron/leather, crafted or found) -> Tier 3 (advanced, looted only...military armor would be a great example) -> Tier 3.5 (very advanced, crafted ONLY, made from scrapped Tier 3 parts) This keeps the benefit of looting - you still end up with very strong gear, and having tier 3 loot-only stuff lets TFP tell a bit of a story...maybe that tier 3 loot is the cutting edge of what the forces fighting off the zombies were using shortly before they were overwhelmed (hence military armor as an example, or modern military-grade weapons), AND it makes crafting important. Crafting would then allow you to get just a little bit more out of an item....not a full tier stronger, but just enough, with just enough of a bonus somewhere in the stats to make people go "you know, It might actually be worth scrapping some of these [tier 3 item] to get that next step. It also somewhat solves the problem of sitting in a safe little region collecting levels and resources to craft top tier loot, a problem A17 had that appears to be one of the reasons the A18 item-parts were added, to force people to go out and fight and loot. Due to the already haphazard/mad max/post-apocalyptic look of a lot of the high end stuff already, It would make sense to flavor a lot of that new "Tier 3.5" stuff as modern+. Not futuristic, just modern gear with extra bells and whistles added on, like the way the iron and steel spear aren't just metal poles sharpened to a point. I get that TFP want us out exploring and looting, and not just being an eclectic hermit watching crafting timers and digging in our mine, but if crafting makes it harder and take longer to get inferior gear to looting...why craft gear? Unless there was some gear we could access through crafting that wasn't available from traders or POIs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RolandDT Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 With the new perk system, I really wish we could craft top level (L6) items after all that investment in the tree. I'm fine with being able to loot top end items *in addition to* crafting them. As you said, crafting is a heavy investment, and shouldn't be thrown away. I like the idea that I have to go out and farm lower level items of the same group and scrap them for parts in order to make a better version. I like the increasing number of parts for higher level items. What I don't like is looting being the only way to get top end gear. If I spec hard into Agility and max out Bows and Handguns, I should be able to craft a L6 T3 item (after finding the schematic, of course - I think that system is great). There should be some level of challenge to obtaining L6 gear, but crafting should be a viable path to that. You can't argue that crafting allows you to stay inside your base, because the only way to get parts is either via looting or trading. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesimpson99 Posted October 15, 2019 Share Posted October 15, 2019 Keep it as is but add a mod slot to crafted items. That way it is worth making but is still only middle of the range for stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limdood Posted October 15, 2019 Author Share Posted October 15, 2019 Keep it as is but add a mod slot to crafted items. That way it is worth making but is still only middle of the range for stats. Which would still be inferior to looted items. While being harder to make, require more investment, and take longer. Current max crafted: Level 5 items with 3 mod slots Current max looted: Level 6 items with 4 mod slots Your proposal would give max crafted and max looted the same mod slots, but looted would still have better average stats. Not to mention it would be back to the days where you never knew how many mod slots were in your item. Currently it is clear how many mod slots an item has at a glance, immediately. Level 1, 2 items have 1 slot, level 3, 4 items have 2 slots, level 5 have 3 slots, and level 6 have 4 slots. Being able to quickly understand things at a glance is important in a game, and changing that would be a change for the worse Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
davesimpson99 Posted October 16, 2019 Share Posted October 16, 2019 I was only putting forth an idea to at least give crafting some value. I get the idea that TFP want T6 to be special and that you'll have to find them. Either it's bugged or mod slot have a random feature. I've gotten T3 items with 3 mod slots. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolf959 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 even if I spec HARD into a given attribute, I'm STILL more likely to FIND a level 6 version of the weapon/armor/tool I've specced into LONG before I can craft a level 5 one. For finding one...I just have to find it...that's all...or save up and buy one from a trader. For crafting one, I need to hit level 10 in an attribute, level 5 in the governing skill, get access to steel (or military fiber), And after all that I STILL need to find the schematic AND find enough of the item to scrap it several times for enough parts. The RNG for actually crafting a level 5 version of an item is SIGNIFICANTLY harder/more restrictive than finding a level 6 version of that item in loot or a trader inventory...It's currently much harder to accomplish less... I completely agree. The current setup has basically nerfed crafting. I don't know about a singleplayer game, but in my multiplayer game we stopped getting useful crafts after tier 3. You have to find so many parts to craft an item, what are the odds that one of the items Isn't tier 6? and honestly, mostof the reason i go all the way into a perk is to craft tier 6. By the time we could have crafted a primitive bow, we looted a Compound bow. I feel like becoming self sufficient isn't a terrible idea either. I mean, that's the end goal in many a zombie movie. AND, even if we could craft tier 6 from the beginning, we would still need the brass we get from looting. Maybe just make it even MORE difficult to craft Tier 6? I would like to loot for fun. What if the quests had a little more story to them? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I found a level 5 steel sledgehammer in a tier 4 POI... All of the steel sledgehammer parts I'd been trying to save up to eventually make one became instantly worthless...I'd NEVER need them again. Existence of random stats completely invalidates that. You might craft much better one with more mod slots then you have found. Or worse one. Random stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Existence of random stats completely invalidates that. You might craft much better one with more mod slots then you have found. Or worse one. Random stats. Or put that ton of perk points you wasted in crafting on combat skills instead, and you far outweight the few extra stats you have just a chance to get when crafting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Or put that ton of perk points you wasted in crafting it and put them on combat skills, and you far outweight the few extra stats you have a small chance to have while crafting. Wasted? So you do not want better performing tools then? Because *whispers* this is no longer A17 or A16 or A15, perks improve crafting quality AND performance of items. Yeah, 80-100% better tools regardless of how you got them is such a waste of perks. You sure you played A18 yet or are you just reading notes and complaining? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalarro Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 perks improve crafting quality AND performance of items. First good argument you have made in about 30 posts. At least regarding this topic. Yes, Im taking miner69 100% of the times anyway like you say, that's true, and raises another crafter/builder issue regarding the perk distribution. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katitof Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I can't see this as any kind of issue regardless of how you put it. If you're lucky and find a tool, great! You've got good tool and perk makes it perform even better! If you're unlucky for raw drop, but accumulated enough parts and crafted one, great! You've got good tool and perk makes it perform even better! For whatever reason you see this win-win situation as always lose. How's that crafter builder issue, if you don't need to invest into attributes that contribute completely nothing to your playstyle just because they have that one specific perk that does exclusively one thing and nothing more? I've got the feeling like you're still thinking in A17-A16 way while being on A18, forgetting completely that A17 FORCED you into deep int speccing regardless of how you wanted to play, which is no longer a problem in A18. Wasn't being forced into attribute specifically one of your problems? So why are you ignoring that everyone was forced into int previously regardless of playstyle? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 The whole idea of needing parts to craft stuff is pretty dumb in my opinion. I can craft a fully functional 4x4 with just some random materials I've scavenged but I need to go out and find parts to make a wooden baseball bat? I can craft generators and an entire electrical system that runs power to my whole base and various traps is very easily done but I need parts to create a steel sledgehammer? I can understand the need for parts for guns to a degree, still seems like with some of the stuff I can craft from scratch that gun parts wouldn't be a challenge either but I could understand those. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 The whole idea of needing parts to craft stuff is pretty dumb in my opinion. I can craft a fully functional 4x4 with just some random materials I've scavenged but I need to go out and find parts to make a wooden baseball bat? I can craft generators and an entire electrical system that runs power to my whole base and various traps is very easily done but I need parts to create a steel sledgehammer? I can understand the need for parts for guns to a degree, still seems like with some of the stuff I can craft from scratch that gun parts wouldn't be a challenge either but I could understand those. You're looking at it from a logical stand point and not a game play stand point. Sure, needing parts to craft a baseball bat is silly... but the point is to control access to better tools and weapons. Tier 3 weapons and tools require uncraftable parts to delay people's access to them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AtomicUs5000 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I don’t look at like I need to find parts to craft a weapon. It’s more like I can scrap all the low tier weapons I find and at least make some kind of use of that scrap. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 You're looking at it from a logical stand point and not a game play stand point. Sure, needing parts to craft a baseball bat is silly... but the point is to control access to better tools and weapons. Tier 3 weapons and tools require uncraftable parts to delay people's access to them. Having to find the schematic/book needed to unlock the recipe should be good enough in my opinion. Lower the rarity and make them only spawnable after a certain game stage. I think that would be a better solution than to require parts but that is just one guys opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Having to find the schematic/book needed to unlock the recipe should be good enough in my opinion. Lower the rarity and make them only spawnable after a certain game stage. I think that would be a better solution than to require parts but that is just one guys opinion. But once you get the schematic you can make as many as you want. Parts both slows your access but also restricts how many get added to a game. So you can't craft a boat load and sell them to a trader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 But once you get the schematic you can make as many as you want. Parts both slows your access but also restricts how many get added to a game. So you can't craft a boat load and sell them to a trader. Traders will only buy items until they have 3 in their inventory so at most you will be able to sell 3. Not that great of a money maker compared to the resources needed. Plus if it's late enough in the game where the schematics will actually spawn and you still need money then you probably don't know how to sell things to the trader anyway lol. Also what does the trader sell now that you are so worried about people getting access to? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Also what does the trader sell now that you are so worried about people getting access to? Lots of things Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Lots of things Such as? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Such as? Um, almost anything in the game? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 People complained about having no reason to loot, so they added parts. I welcome that. Let them work it through. Here's an idea....parts can be consumed by 'adding' them to an existing item. This addition will have a random effect which will improve that item. Maybe it will do as little as bump one stat by +1... or as much as add another mod slot. RNG. Or perhaps the number of parts you consume pays the price of various augments available, so you can save them up for that extra mod slot. You can of course just craft a new item with them as well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ghostlight Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I've got the feeling like you're still thinking in A17-A16 way while being on A18, forgetting completely that A17 FORCED you into deep int speccing regardless of how you wanted to play, which is no longer a problem in A18. It is a problem, specifically for those items that are enablers for other important things. The prime example is the Crucible. If you don't find one of them, someone HAS to spec to Int 10 / Engineering 5 asap. Pretty much to the exclusion of all other perks. In Multi-player, Concrete bases will simply not handle the higher level hordes I've seen (assuming no AI exploit). Heck I lost a re-enforced concrete base to the day 21 horde in MP! In all game modes, almost all high tier items - especially mods - require Steel. To my mind, no crafted item that is so essential as the Crucible should require a full investment in a stat like Int. Level 10 of any stat should be absolute specialisation for a build, not a basic requirement for success in the game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 Um, almost anything in the game? So you are worried about someone being able to craft and sell, at most, three of an item to the trader to be able to buy some random item he might be selling at that moment? So what's to stop me from doing the same thing but selling iron tools instead of steel? Or Iron Reinforced Clubs instead of Baseball Bats? Same thing is going to happen just not quite as fast. People complained about having no reason to loot, so they added parts. I welcome that. Let them work it through. Here's an idea....parts can be consumed by 'adding' them to an existing item. This addition will have a random effect which will improve that item. Maybe it will do as little as bump one stat by +1... or as much as add another mod slot. RNG. Or perhaps the number of parts you consume pays the price of various augments available, so you can save them up for that extra mod slot. You can of course just craft a new item with them as well. I have full faith in TFP's dev team to do what they deem best and I welcome any change that they bring. I may not agree with certain changes but that's okay because I know they will make an amazing game no matter what. I like the idea of being able to use the parts in that manner. I would suggest an addition in that using the parts like that comes with an increased parts cost each time you attempt it. That way you will need more and more parts to keep attempting to make the item better. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kalen Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 So you are worried about someone being able to craft and sell, at most, three of an item to the trader to be able to buy some random item he might be selling at that moment? So what's to stop me from doing the same thing but selling iron tools instead of steel? Or Iron Reinforced Clubs instead of Baseball Bats? Same thing is going to happen just not quite as fast. I'm not worried about anything.... I'm pointing out possible reasons why TFP may want to limit how many high tier items you can craft. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sjustus548 Posted October 25, 2019 Share Posted October 25, 2019 I'm not worried about anything.... I'm pointing out possible reasons why TFP may want to limit how many high tier items you can craft. I asked you what you were worried about people getting access to and you said "lots of things". Have I since convinced you that there is no reason to be worried? That's great to hear. I'm so happy I could ease your mind about this. Now let us sit back and both enjoy this wonderful game that TFPs have brought us. I'll bring the beer if you want to grill up some meat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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