What are your most desired changes now A18 is almost in stable?

[camelCase]

Without going into a long list of niggles. What are your top issues with A18 and how would you change them?

 

Mine would definitely be farming, crafting (vs. looting), and some of the first person animations (some are just plain worse).

 

I would fix farming by either:

 

• Nerf vending machines or changing their refresh to the POI loot respawn time

• Making farming less efficient, but removing artificial gates like food poisoning on cooked food (perhaps this could be linked to cooking skill?) and creating farm plots.

 

I would fix crafting by:

 

• Allowing tier 6 craftables, but still random stats that makes looting desirable. Just not as OP desirable as it is now

• Directly comparing effort of crafting vs. looting/trading... AP ammo as a great example

• Only allowing repairs to an item's quality if you can craft that quality (back to A16)

 

Just for info, I love the update and most of it's changes but these really stand out to me as badly implemented or rushed out ones.

[Katitof]

I can't agree with a single thing you wrote there.

 

1) Food is never an issue if you play solo, try playing in group and have fun survivng on vending machines.

 

2) That would simply result in bigger fields, just like in the past.

 

3) No. Top quality of loot should NEVER be obtainable without you moving out of the base.

 

4) Makes no sense, crafting ammo was always best option and will always be, scavenging for it is good only for early game.

 

5) That would make 97% of loot impossible to use.

[OzHawkeye]

Yeah, I'm with Katitof there.

 

The best loot should never have been craftable I reckon, and it's one of the highlights of A18, that Tier6 can no longer be crafted.

 

Farming is in a better state than it's ever been I reckon, at least, as I've experienced it so far in my single player game. It's no longer a matter of days before a farm has you overflowing with food.

 

Repairing is also in a much better state, and I would not at all agree with the idea of only being able to repair what you could craft, because again, I don't think you ever should be able to craft the best.

 

So, what would I change? Well, so far I've noticed (on a sample size of just one game), that loot is somewhat too easy to come by, ore veins are a bit too easy to find, and pay out ore quite a bit too easily.

 

I spent 1 game day mining Shale in a nearby desert (which I had no trouble at all finding), and brought back what turned out to just off 70,000 gas cans worth of Shale Oil for my Chemistry Station. As a single player, I expect it will take a verrrrrryyyy long time to use up that supply. That said, I also don't mind if they don't adjust that either, since I'm not much into mining anyway.

[Ghostlight]

More zombies.

[Kalarro]

 

3) No. Top quality of loot should NEVER be obtainable without you moving out of the base.

 

5) That would make 97% of loot impossible to use.

 

Yes, move out of your base and get more items instead of repairing them.

 

Not saying this is how it should be, just showing how bad your #3 argument is bc we can also apply it to your #5

 

Obviously you dont like crafting. Well I do. Theres a ton of things to find looting now. Same as looting was pretty useless in a17 and we asked for an improvement, crafting is pretty useless now.

 

Making the few crafting skills you chose to spezialize into give you better items than looting, which will still give you everything you didnt spec into, wont make you stay in your base forever.

[OzHawkeye]

Yes, move out of your base and get more items instead of repairing them.

 

Not saying this is how it should be, just showing how bad your #3 argument is bc we can also apply it to your #5

 

Obviously you dont like crafting. Well I do. Theres a ton of things to find looting now. Same as looting was pretty useless in a17 and we asked for an improvement, crafting is pretty useless now.

 

Making the few crafting skills you chose to spezialize into give you better items than looting, which will still give you everything you didnt spec into, wont make you stay in your base forever.

 

Well, with all due respect of course, but imho, you should never, ever, ever, be able to craft something that is better than, or even on par, with the best loot - even with perks. As it stands, your perk choices allow you to craft nearly the best kit in the game for that category, which is pretty good, and indeed, in my game, approaching day 60, I'm still using some crafted items because I haven't been lucky enough to find better looted replacements.

[Ghostlight]

I love the fact you cannot craft T6, however T6 items are dropping much too often.

[Viktoriusiii]

I actually agree with kati and Oz for once.

Crafting should be a last resort. T6 beeing uncraftable gives you a reason to explore. I would even like a T7 that is super ultra rare and only in hard dungeon pois (towers mostly)

 

I do agree that crafting needs a bit of a buff (mostly in the cost department) and I do actually like the idea of not beeing able to repair quality that you can't make (or make it more expensive to repair if you cant craft it (one quality above your crafting-x2; two x3 three x4 and so on)

 

 

My changes I already stated are the spearthrow that needs a heavy nerf/rework and the loot tables should scale more with gamestage (less good loot early until day 14-21 or so).

Also more zombies.

Can't say more about the rest tho.

[Katitof]

Yes, move out of your base and get more items instead of repairing them.

 

Not saying this is how it should be, just showing how bad your #3 argument is bc we can also apply it to your #5

 

Obviously you dont like crafting. Well I do. Theres a ton of things to find looting now. Same as looting was pretty useless in a17 and we asked for an improvement, crafting is pretty useless now.

 

Making the few crafting skills you chose to spezialize into give you better items than looting, which will still give you everything you didnt spec into, wont make you stay in your base forever.

 

I've got Q1 and 2 steel pick axe and steel fireaxe on 1st week due to quests.

With OPs suggestion, I wouldn't be able to use them past few initial swings.

I'm not playing str + int build, so you're trying to tell me I should be denied of using these items unless I invest 40+ levels exclusively for the steel path and tools path to unlock steel smelting and steel tools?

 

Sorry, there is no bad argument on my side here, just a handful of extremely salty people who turn themselves earthworms the moment they set farm up and make their first pickaxe and shovel being upset that its no longer top tier min maxed way to play the game.

 

I enjoy crafting very much. Just finished my first steel shovel and M60 after I was lucky enough to find crucible(not speccing int at all, so by your logic, I shouldn't even have access to be able to craft these items without 20+ levels into int to unlock steel).

What I don't enjoy is being FORCED to do something or speccing into something if I want to use it even as a basic Q1 trash loot drop.

[OzHawkeye]

I actually agree with kati and Oz for once.

 

I'm looking over my shoulder to see if Rod Serling is giving a monologue right now. ;-)

[Kalarro]

just a handful of extremely salty people who turn themselves earthworms the moment they set farm up and make their first pickaxe and shovel being upset that its no longer top tier min maxed way to play the game.

 

IMO you are the one beeing salty about this topic, since, while beeing a builder/crafter type of player, I still asked for the addition of reasons to go out loot in a17. While I can see both sides, you just want one to be viable, while the other one seems like a temporary fix while you find stuff. Well it isnt for me. As a crafting survival game, I think crafting weapons and tools should be a major thing, not a temporary fix while you find it.

 

A good way to balance it is that we cant spec into everything. Yes, you may be able at level 250, but by then you dont need to craft or loot items. Since you cant spec into everything, you still have to go out and find everything you arent specced into.

Even more, even for crafting you need to loot now. Tool parts, bow parts, recipes... Even considering me crafting an item instead of looting it, looting is still very useful.

 

Sorry, but same as a17 was totally in favour of crafting instead of looting, a18 (in it's current state) is too in favour of looting instead of crafting. Same mistake different direction.

[Khulkhuum]

My list of propositions:

1. Make parts more obtainable while looting. Instead of finding 5 guns, i'd like to find 1 gun and 4 bags of parts. Having higher looting will allow greater chance for finding intact items instead of parts, but i would prefer for it to max out at something like 50:50.

2. Put the most valued items (grade 3 weapons and tools, auger, chainsaw) only lootable as you hit a certain looting level (looting quality?), obtaining only the lowest tiers at that point. Higher tiers available with further looting level increase (due to character level, gamestage or perks investment). This way you know at some point you'll be finding the best gear, but not from the start.

 

Had something more but forgot...

[OzHawkeye]

While I can see both sides, you just want one to be viable, while the other one seems like a temporary fix while you find stuff. Well it isnt for me. As a crafting survival game, I think crafting weapons and tools should be a major thing, not a temporary fix while you find it.

 

Crafting is a major thing - still. You can still craft T5, and that ain't nothin'. I like to craft, by the sounds of it, maybe not so much as you perhaps, but crafting a T5 is still pretty damn good, and as I say, I'm near Day 60 and still using a number of crafted items.

 

Crafting shouldn't be end-game though I reckon. Getting out there, killin' Zeek, looting POI's is what end-game should be.

[Kalarro]

Crafting shouldn't be end-game though I reckon. Getting out there, killin' Zeek, looting POI's is what end-game should be.

 

But that's your opinion. My perfect endgame is building defenses. Ive posted a wish for endgame several times where beacons appear that we need to build defenses around and get loot after defending them from hordes.

 

So, since your endgame is looting, you ask for T6 from looting and only T5 from crafting.

Meanwhile, I prefer crafting and ask for same tier for both.

 

Who is beeing more unreasonable?

[OzHawkeye]

But that's your opinion. My perfect endgame is building defenses. Ive posted a wish for endgame several times where beacons appear that we need to build defenses around and get loot after defending them from hordes.

 

So, since your endgame is looting, you ask for T6 from looting and only T5 from crafting.

Meanwhile, I prefer crafting and ask for same tier for both.

 

Who is beeing more unreasonable?

 

Neither of us are being unreasonable - we both want the game to play to our own preferences. I would be quite happy to see TFP make it easy to mod in an ability to craft T6 (if it isn't already easy to do so), and you be free to play the game how you want.

 

Absent that, the ability to craft T6 is - for now at least - a binary choice, either we can do it or we can't, and I reckon the game is better served by not being able to craft T6. If it becomes an easy XML tweak, or even an in-game menu option around Gold, I've got no objections at all.

[quyxkh]

I want the zombie music to play only after the zombie has been rendered on your screen, not always immediately then, but fast zombie motion or most motion through grass/brush to make some quiet-but-audible-nearby noise. "Watch your back" just isn't the imperative it should be.

[Katitof]

But that's your opinion. My perfect endgame is building defenses.

Traps and walls don't have varied quality, so absolutely nothing changes for you here.

 

Ive posted a wish for endgame several times where beacons appear that we need to build defenses around and get loot after defending them from hordes.

So... basically T5-T6 quests?

 

So, since your endgame is looting, you ask for T6 from looting and only T5 from crafting.

Meanwhile, I prefer crafting and ask for same tier for both.

And you still can craft literally everything except for top tier stuff. Its no longer A17 or earlier, you aren't going to be decked in purple by day 14, crafting takes least effort, therefore it doesn't get top tier rewards. Its not hard to comprehend that you won't get best stuff if you don't want to endanger yourself.

 

Who is beeing more unreasonable?

Still you, for expecting top tier loot without ever leaving the base to get anything better then Q1 items for parts.

[Kalarro]

just a handful of extremely salty people who turn themselves earthworms the moment they set farm up and make their first pickaxe and shovel being upset that its no longer top tier min maxed way to play the game.

Its not hard to comprehend that you won't get best stuff if you don't want to endanger yourself.

Still you, for expecting top tier loot without ever leaving the base to get anything better then Q1 items for parts.

 

This is starting to feel like the AI a17 discussion, that no matter how many times you explain it has nothing to do with wanting it to be easier (even on the contrary) they still answer you with "you just want easymode".

 

I like crafting stuff. That's it. It feels good. I ilked the 1-600 quality method much more than the actual one. So, we are now losing even more crafting options in the game and that itself sucks. Can you stop saying for the fifth time that I dont want to be put in danger? Im finding this alpha quite easy anyway, zombies hit for much less or I dont know what it is, granted I havent played until far yet.

 

Some of you just need to stop using the "you just want it easy" argument whenever somebody has a different opinion, unless he specifically says "game is too hard bc of X"

[Limdood]

Well, with all due respect of course, but imho, you should never, ever, ever, be able to craft something that is better than, or even on par, with the best loot - even with perks. As it stands, your perk choices allow you to craft nearly the best kit in the game for that category, which is pretty good, and indeed, in my game, approaching day 60, I'm still using some crafted items because I haven't been lucky enough to find better looted replacements.

currently crafting is harder to find (both a schematic AND enough copies of the item to scrap for parts), takes longer (even if you beeline for level 10 of a skill, you still need to get all the parts, the other mats, and find the schematic), and rewards inferior items (max level 5 vs. level 6) to crafting. You are far FAR more likely to find a given level 5 or 6 top tier item before you get level 5 in the appropriate skill, get all the specialized parts, get all the other mats, and manage to find the "looted only" schematic.

 

I think there needs to be some separation at the top. have a tier of loot that is looted only, then a half tier above that that is crafted only - BUT requires parts scrapped from the loot-only stuff. because currently the Tier 3 items just don't work. There is almost no reason to ever craft any tier 3 loot. By the time you're able to, you've almost certainly found equal or better, and even if the crafted item is a small upgrade from whatever other Level 4+ item you're using in it's place already, it's not enough of a benefit to justify all the skill points, RNG for schematic, parts hoarding, and other levelling or investment you needed to be able to craft it. I'll make a small allowance for steel/military armor, because those are 1 schematic for 5 items, and in that SOLE case, you are more likely to be able to craft halfway decent steel/military armor before you fill all 5 armor slots with level 4+ equivalent armor.

[camelCase]

I've got Q1 and 2 steel pick axe and steel fireaxe on 1st week due to quests.

With OPs suggestion, I wouldn't be able to use them past few initial swings.

I'm not playing str + int build, so you're trying to tell me I should be denied of using these items unless I invest 40+ levels exclusively for the steel path and tools path to unlock steel smelting and steel tools?.

No, of course not. Well I mean that was implied, but I believe even a layman could repair a pickaxe and fireaxe and that's how I would suggest it's implemented. High knowledge is required to repair to high quality.

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

Same as looting was pretty useless in a17 and we asked for an improvement, crafting is pretty useless now.

Yes, this is exactly how I feel, the same with farming. I just want the game as balanced for each playstyle as possible (and according to A18 release notes, so do TFP).

[camelCase]

Neither of us are being unreasonable - we both want the game to play to our own preferences. I would be quite happy to see TFP make it easy to mod in an ability to craft T6 (if it isn't already easy to do so), and you be free to play the game how you want.

And this is the problem, you'd be perfectly happy for them to mod something in as long as it doesn't touch YOUR base game. Where's the harm in them balancing for each playstyle?

[RolandDT]

And this is the problem, you'd be perfectly happy for them to mod something in as long as it doesn't touch YOUR base game. Where's the harm in them balancing for each playstyle?

 

Quoted for truth. Crafting L6 items should be available, as it requires not only heavy investment in a stat tree and perk, but also looting/trading multiple components (either parts themselves, or lower quality items scrapped for parts). That shouldn't be thrown out the window. Being able to craft top level items does not in any way affect your gameplay of looting, and it does force people to get out and loot or trade in order to obtain parts for crafting. The game is currently balanced around crafting high level items with the increasing cost of parts required to make higher levels of items. I see no reason why crafting should be given the shaft when it's already forcing people to go out into the world (which is a good thing).

[camelCase]

More zombies.

 

I definitely think this should scale with difficulty level. It feels about right for default, but not for one level above it (Nomad is it?).

 

- - - Updated - - -

 

My list of propositions:

1. Make parts more obtainable while looting. Instead of finding 5 guns, i'd like to find 1 gun and 4 bags of parts. Having higher looting will allow greater chance for finding intact items instead of parts, but i would prefer for it to max out at something like 50:50.

2. Put the most valued items (grade 3 weapons and tools, auger, chainsaw) only lootable as you hit a certain looting level (looting quality?), obtaining only the lowest tiers at that point. Higher tiers available with further looting level increase (due to character level, gamestage or perks investment). This way you know at some point you'll be finding the best gear, but not from the start.

 

Had something more but forgot...

I like both of these. Perhaps with number 2 they could just change the RNG? Seems to drop 5's and 6's alot.

[Amotaraso]

Crafting shouldn't be end-game though I reckon. Getting out there, killin' Zeek, looting POI's is what end-game should be.

 

That can hardly be a fair statement

We obviously enjoy different things in this game, and getting out there to kill zeds, is to me a necessity, in order to get the stuff I need, to build up my base, to defend against the hordes on Blood Moon.

 

For me, this is a survival game. Survival to me is not explore. Survival is bunkering up. So we have very different opinions and ideas. <3

[Ghostlight]

You can potentially craft a T5 item that is better than a found T6 item, so everyone should be happy. Crafting is worth it, and looting is worth it.

 

RNG is a thing. In fact I have a tier 2 Pistol that has a bigger magazine than any Pistol I have since found or crafted (up to T5).