New Auger Heat and its Problems

[Druuna]

Ok, after a dozen deaths I have adapted it. Underground mining is bad, surface mining works good (giant hole where you can fast jump out). It's just important to kill screamers fast. I need now double the time for mining because of the fighting but I get good XP for the mass killing.

[Frekton]

Yeah it's pretty bad, I ended modding the auger and removed the heat from it completely. Got tired of being swarmed by zeds at bedrock in the middle of the day. I asked to have the ability to turn off digging zombies either in xml or game setting. All I got was snarky answers from the devs about either turning off zombies completely, turning off bloodmoon or modding the terrain blocks to have 30k hp....

[RipClaw]

I'm not happy about digging zombies either. It was always wonderfully relaxing to work in the mine.

 

The zombies seem to be able to hear the auger up to 30m away, regardless of whether you are under the earth or not. Of course this is not realistic.

 

If the zombies get on my nerves too much in the long run then I will probably make a modlet so that the zombies hear the auger only 10-15m far. Since my mines normally lie deeper I should have no more problems with zombies.

[myrkana]

Ok, mining with the Auger generates now crazy much heat, the screamers coming every minute or two.

Not that I don't like that, it's a nice change in the otherwise boring work of a miner, but it has problems which can lead to really bad lag spikes. That happens if your digging tunnels become labyrintic enough so that the screamers have problems to reach you ... but they can hear you!

So they spawn and scream and spawn and scream ... and suddenly 50 or 100 zeds in and on the area around you creating bad lag spikes so that fleeing can end up in death fast.

 

Solutions would be to decrease heat generation or decrease screaming frequency of the screamers.

A better solution would be to let the screamers only scream if they see you, not if they only can hear your Auger. If they see me I have to deal with them and they don't scream 100 zeds together.

 

What do you think about it?

 

THe auger has always caused a lot of heat. That has always been the drawback to using a chainsaw or an auger, they raise the heat in an area very fast. Just build defenses aroudn where you're digging. I build a simple wood wall 2-3 high and put wood spikes around it or metal for a mroe long term thing. That takes care of 90% of the screamers and other zombies that walk over.

 

There is a non heat generating method you can use, Shovel

[mr.natural]

just make a hole behind you in the tunnel, have always crushed stones on you so you can close the tunnel behind you when they arrive. Alway have an second entrance. Be creative

[RipClaw]

just make a hole behind you in the tunnel, have always crushed stones on you so you can close the tunnel behind you when they arrive. Alway have an second entrance. Be creative

 

If it's a screamer horde then depending on the gamestage it can be that you get feral and radioactive zombies. In my case screamer hordes usually contain at least 2 radioactive zombies. That means they run even during the day and the destroyed stone holds them just for 1-2 seconds. But until you have selected the destroy stone and placed more time passes. You actually lose time with the tactics.

 

An AK47 or a shotgun is the better option here.

 

As for the second exit, it doesn't help if you can't find it. I don't know what it's like with you but with me it's like I'm following the resources when I'm mining. But they are not nicely arranged in a line. Sometimes a labyrinth is created so that I can't find the exit under normal conditions let alone when a horde of zombies is on my heels.

 

And as for "bee creative", I wonder where the creative underground bases are that have been announced by those who have always called for digging zombies. It has always been argued that they don't build underground bases because it's boring because the zombies can't dig and if the zombies dig then they would build the ultimate underground fortress.

[RipClaw]

THe auger has always caused a lot of heat. That has always been the drawback to using a chainsaw or an auger, they raise the heat in an area very fast.

 

It was never as extreme in the previous alphas as it is now. I have used the auger in A15 and A16 and rarely had a screamer when I came out of my mine and I have spent down there sometimes hours. I should have had dozens of screamers. So something has definitely changed.

 

There is a non heat generating method you can use, Shovel

 

You mean a pick and a shovel. You can't get far with a shovel alone. One of the big advantages of the auger is that it doesn't distinguish between gravel, dirt, stone, iron and other resources. You can work without having to change tools all the time.

[meganoth]

And as for "bee creative", I wonder where the creative underground bases are that have been announced by those who have always called for digging zombies. It has always been argued that they don't build underground bases because it's boring because the zombies can't dig and if the zombies dig then they would build the ultimate underground fortress.

 

No, they didn't ALL argue they would build underground bases. I have called for digging zombies because underground generally is boring without them. I never said I would build bases down there. Just to clarify that I don't feel I need to justify myself here.

 

BUT recently I got two ideas for underground bases and wanted to try them out. Yesterday we (co-op group of four) tested this design (the pictures are from AFTER the horde night):

 

 

 

 

And this worked great. They dug down inside a water-filled moat instead of going over the pit edge, so they created the waterfall you see down on half height (the hole is already getting repaired in the pictures).

 

From there they went down the ladders on the pit wall where we could shoot them and throw them off the ladder, so they got fall damage.

Then they got damaged by blade traps (with spike traps on top) on the bottom floor. Finally if they went up the ladders on two sides that led up into our cage we could shoot them from above. So even the worst shooter got headshots most of the time and they fell down again or their head exploded.

 

We didn't much arrange who would guard the holes and who would shoot the zombies coming out of the hole in the wall side so twice a zombie actually did get inside the cage.

 

It would have even been better if we could have gotten the zombies to fall from all the way up. Not because of more damage because their fall damage is limited AFAIK. But them falling from the top looks a lot more entertaining that just from half height. But it still was a lot of fun seeing them fall again and again

 

This is just the first version we tried out. There are optimizations we could do and an obvious one would be to make a larger hole. Making the hole walls out of concrete wasn't my idea but the player helping me prefered it that way and we had lots of concrete.

[RipClaw]

No, they didn't ALL argue they would build underground bases. I have called for digging zombies because underground generally is boring without them.

 

If it was too boring for you in the underground then you could also simply build on the surface. You had the choice.

 

You also didn't have to make a mine but you could get a lot of resources from above ground sources like the small rocks or the above ground resource nodes.

I've been driving around a lot and mining resources above ground and I've been sometimes running in a wandering horde. A lot of times it was a zombie dog horde.

 

There are people who appreciate a little boredom. Some people just want to relax sometimes. That was taken from them with the decision to let the zombies dig.

 

And in A17 and 17.1 the decision was also taken away from them.

 

I had several bases in the A16. Partly underground and partly above ground. But they were all just working bases. I also had bases that were only there to fight the horde. These were all bases above the ground.

As long as the zombies could not dig the player always had the choice whether he fights the horde or not. I've always decided to fight the horde, but I don't blame anyone for saying they don't want to fight the horde. That's their decision.

 

In 17.2, players again have the option not to fight the horde by turning off the bloodmoon horde but only as single players or if it is their own server. If the play on a public server they only can log out before the horde starts.

 

I never said I would build bases down there. Just to clarify that I don't feel I need to justify myself here.

 

And yet you're responding to this part of the posting. So I must have hit a nerve.

 

BUT recently I got two ideas for underground bases and wanted to try them out. Yesterday we (co-op group of four) tested this design (the pictures are from AFTER the horde night)

 

It's a pitfall, not a classic underground base.

 

A classic underground base has only one hatch on the surface and the rest is hidden under the surface. These bases are also not meant to fight the horde but to work and store raw materials.

 

These bases are very popular with PvP because they are easier to hide.

 

But this pitfall shows very nicely the problem with underground bases. You never know where the zombies are digging. Accordingly, the defense is difficult here.

[meganoth]

There are people who appreciate a little boredom. Some people just want to relax sometimes. That was taken from them with the decision to let the zombies dig.

 

Not really. Relaxing is possible by

1) turning on god mode

2) setting some options, surely more to come

3) modding the game

4) turning off your PC and reading a book

 

Relaxing is not possible by playing the game in its default setting. Hint: That is on purpose.

 

And yet you're responding to this part of the posting. So I must have hit a nerve.

 

Oh, certainly. I'm in the group that wanted digging zombies and you claim we all wanted to build bases in the underground. Thereby misrepresenting my position.

 

It's a pitfall, not a classic underground base.

 

A classic underground base has only one hatch on the surface and the rest is hidden under the surface. These bases are also not meant to fight the horde but to work and store raw materials.

 

These bases are very popular with PvP because they are easier to hide.

 

But this pitfall shows very nicely the problem with underground bases. You never know where the zombies are digging. Accordingly, the defense is difficult here.

 

Its a base in the underground. Call it new-age underground base.

 

Underground bases only meant to store raw materials are trivial, I don't need to show that: Go down to bedrock, built storage boxes there. While you are there, the zombies (in A17) will NOT sense you. The way down is a small window of risk, so maybe make sure you are not sensed by stopping halfway and listening for a while.

 

With this pitfall I really don't care much where they come out. They also came out pretty much at the height where I was expecting them (I just didn't expect them to dig into the moat).

 

Also this was version1. If I ever get to version 2 (sadly my group voted on finally restarting because we had everything, but I want to do a similar base design again in the new game) I might add specific entry tunnels for the zombies. Maybe even make a plateau on half height so the zombies don't need to dig to be exactly there.

[RipClaw]

Relaxing is not possible by playing the game in its default setting. Hint: That is on purpose.

 

It was possible in A16 and before and some people have it appreciated.

[Khulkhuum]

I think the most important factor for the auger is that its advantage is faster digging, but disadvantage is that it attracts tons of attention. I understand that the game needs to be balanced, but i don't see it on par with using guns (the amount of sound and heat), rather greater.

 

My question is, why does a better tool need to have detriments to compensate it being better? Something i don't really understand and most notably seen in Dead Space 3. There tier 1 addons to weapons had +1 additions (to what attribute was based on the addon), but tier 2 addons mostly had +1 to something and -1 to something, sometimes having +2 and -1. I never used those, apart from weapons sometimes not getting the +1 bonus from tier 1.

 

In this manner, i prefer how Terraria manages progression. Each higher tier weapon or tool (pickaxe, axe, hammer) always is faster, has greater damage and sometimes range. When i find a better item i instantly know it's something useful. In 7DTD even if i find an auger or some gun it doesn't necessarily mean it's gonna be useful, mainly because i may lack skills or useful mods.

[FA_Q2]

just make a hole behind you in the tunnel, have always crushed stones on you so you can close the tunnel behind you when they arrive. Alway have an second entrance. Be creative

 

Have to say that I do like the fact I have to actually design my mine now. It gives that section of the game a lot more purpose.

[mr.natural]

Have to say that I do like the fact I have to actually design my mine now. It gives that section of the game a lot more purpose.

 

Exactly, I mine a lot and played from A15 onwards. Had almost always an underground base and a seperate horde base. I got so bored that I tried al the mods from A16. In ravenhearst there were also digging zombies and I loved it. It is a zombie apocalypse, not minecraft (which I played before I discovered 7d2d). It is great to get scares and to use your intelligence. With A17 vanilla I get bored from level 40/50, no more real challenges 'cause the zombies are too easy to kill. So I'm still playing ravenhearst because I think the game should never became easy. And If you can't stand the heat, lower the specs.

[Druuna]

Want to add a new strange observation in this case:

When the zed flooding is triggered by the screamers I jump into my truck and kill Greens and original zeds by driving over them (sadly the modded zeds are invulnerable against this attack, but the new modded boss zeds are vulnerable).

If I drive long enough around them they start to make a zed lump, they climb on each other and do not longer chase me. First when I dismount the truck the lump resolves and they continue with chasing me. If I drive with full speed through the lump I get lots of damage but they too ... at least those who are vulnerable.

Anyway if I'm not fast enough with killing the screamers the flooding kills my FPS to a dia show and I can only leave the area. That should not happen that the game brings itself into an unplayable state.