Feedback for The Fun Pimps on Alpha 17

[Roland]

When devs start to add sliders and "options" it means they are lost, or can't admit mistakes.

 

I think that for some of you no matter what step they take next it is a sign to you that they are lost or can’t admit mistakes...

 

This takes the cake though. They literally are adding in options solely for the community so that those who have a tough time rolling with the ups and downs of development can tailor their experience. The devs don’t need them or want them to finish up development. They know what they want and it is called default. I pray they don’t spend time trying to balance all the new gameplay iterations because of all the new options.

 

I know I’ll probably reflexively ban the first person that sets xp gain to 200%, zombie block damage to 0%, and then complains that the game is over by day two and so boring and easy...

[Roland]

At least you dont sound irratated AT ALL with thiscomment lol

 

Am I forgetting to add smilies to my posts again?

[LoboFH]

I think that for some of you no matter what step they take next it is a sign to you that they are lost or can’t admit mistakes...

 

This takes the cake though. They literally are adding in options solely for the community so that those who have a tough time rolling with the ups and downs of development can tailor their experience. The devs don’t need them or want them to finish up development. They know what they want and it is called default. I pray they don’t spend time trying to balance all the new gameplay iterations because of all the new options.

 

I know I’ll probably reflexively ban the first person that sets xp gain to 200%, zombie block damage to 0%, and then complains that the game is over by day two and so boring and easy...

 

Well, let me get my point straight, I think A17, even with some good nice features, is a dramatic step in the wrong direction in a game, even with all the bugs and early acess shenanigans, that I loved (800 hours here) ... so yeah, sliders won't save this mess, they need to acknowledge the mistake and get back to the drawing board.

[Roland]

Doesn't this already exist in the form on Block durability option? I usually play on default or harder settings so correct me if I'm wrong here.

 

There is block durability which makes blocks easier or tougher to break for both zombies and players. The new option will reduce or increase exclusively zombie damage against blocks.

 

So you could turn block durability down low but also turn zombie damage down low so they still have a tough time breaking your walls but you have an easier time mining. That’s the difference.

 

 

Just don't take away my ability to deal with the horde night on foot without my base involved, I am purposely putting myself at risk of dying easier because I enjoy kiting the horde and this helps sharpen my reflexes and aiming as a personal player.

 

Personally I think night is too easy because zombie speed is so slow. Even on nightmare you quickly gain distance on even the fastest enemies. The way it should be in my mind is that sprint is just barely under player speed so that they aren’t ditched so easily. Nightmare speed should be faster than player run speed. Run should be the current sprint and jog is probably fine where it’s at—a slightly faster walk that puts extra pressure on POI clearing (for those who do it by remaining in the building...)

 

BUT...I’m no hypocrite. TFP should just leave all the speeds but the default speeds the hell alone until they are all done with the default game experience. I don’t want them getting caught up trying to make every option choice balanced.

[Jugginator]

Speaking of nightmare run speed, did they reduce it in the latest patch? I feel like they're slower than before. Nightmare should be right on my arse! Lol

 

#A17isMostFunVersion

(I see you Roland, I'll join)

[Roland]

Well, let me get my point straight, I think A17, even with some good nice features, is a dramatic step in the wrong direction in a game, even with all the bugs and early acess shenanigans, that I loved (800 hours here) ... so yeah, sliders won't save this mess, they need to acknowledge the mistake and get back to the drawing board.

 

Aaaaaaaah...

 

Agree to disagree

 

#A17isMostFunVersion

[OnlyMeiya]

There is block durability which makes blocks easier or tougher to break for both zombies and players. The new option will reduce or increase exclusively zombie damage against blocks.

 

So you could turn block durability down low but also turn zombie damage down low so they still have a tough time breaking your walls but you have an easier time mining. That’s the difference.

 

ahh that makes more sense

 

 

Personally I think night is too easy because zombie speed is so slow. Even on nightmare you quickly gain distance on even the fastest enemies. The way it should be in my mind is that sprint is just barely under player speed so that they aren’t ditched so easily. Nightmare speed should be faster than player run speed. Run should be the current sprint and jog is probably fine where it’s at—a slightly faster walk that puts extra pressure on POI clearing (for those who do it by remaining in the building...)

 

BUT...I’m no hypocrite. TFP should just leave all the speeds but the default speeds the hell alone until they are all done with the default game experience. I don’t want them getting caught up trying to make every option choice balanced.

 

I agree, you do seem to outrun them far too easily, however, when they're too fast it becomes very difficult to hit them because they micro-strafe a lot more, used to be when they were too far from the player they would zig-zag to make it harder to just pick them off.

 

I don't mind if they're a little faster, but I disagree with making them becoming so fast you can only run from them till you're out of stamina, that would almost remove being able to be productive at night, the last thing I want to do is be unable to move 50 meters from my base and whack a stone boulder or tree just to feel like I was being productive, granted I can work on my base at night but I don't want night being removed from exploration and scavenging.

 

So roland I just did a 7th day horde on insane/32 enemies, what would you suggest I try for a new challenge difficulty wise? Increase their run speed?

[DiesFourth]

I was wrong Roland was right.

 

After B8 i tried my ramp loop structure and it failed miserably: (

 

Turns out it didnt fail I did, several different ways.

 

Faced with a seemingly overwhelming sense of desperation i ran to the forums to cry and whine.

 

What i SHOULD have done is EXACTLY what Roland said, research experiment and learn.

 

Turns out the jump distance was merely reduced and i had my " safe space " 4 blocks away from the ramp and 2 higher. Making the hirgth the same for safe space and ramp aswell as extending the lip of the ramp to 1 block from me did the trick.

 

Now here the funny part, the game actually improved as with the gap now 1 i was within melle range. Now i use ammo on cops and melle on everything else increasing my exp points AND getting an occasional loot bag lol

 

I now have a greater respect and understanding that all changes might look bad initially but could turn out to be for the better after all

 

Roland im sorry i ever doubted you but im sure i will again, most likely very soon.

[Roland]

I agree, you do seem to outrun them far too easily, however, when they're too fast it becomes very difficult to hit them because they micro-strafe a lot more, used to be when they were too far from the player they would zig-zag to make it harder to just pick them off.

 

I don't mind if they're a little faster, but I disagree with making them becoming so fast you can only run from them till you're out of stamina, that would almost remove being able to be productive at night, the last thing I want to do is be unable to move 50 meters from my base and whack a stone boulder or tree just to feel like I was being productive, granted I can work on my base at night but I don't want night being removed from exploration and scavenging.

 

So roland I just did a 7th day horde on insane/32 enemies, what would you suggest I try for a new challenge difficulty wise? Increase their run speed?

 

Here's the thing about night. They can't see you until you get within a few meters of them but they can hear you from far away. I have tested this extensively. If you shoot a zombie with an arrow at night and then stealth walk just five meters away they will run towards you but it isn't because they can see you. They are simply running to the spot they last heard you but they won't attack you. You can throw a rock and they will run after it. If, instead, you run or walk away without being crouched making noise they will again start running after you. But they don't see you once you get more than about five meters away. They just follow because the noise you are making keeps giving them an updated point to run to which helps them follow. Once you get even a short distance if you stop, crouch and move away from the last point you were making noise you will lose them.

 

It is a fun way to spend the night now but not very difficult at all. If the zombies were faster then it would be much more risky and enjoyable but as long as you knew the mechanics of it you could still be productive. You would just have to be ready to drop into sneaking and shift away silently before they reached your position. The nice thing about the faster fun speeds is that you always hear their footsteps approaching. Whatever it is that makes them sometimes silently approach only seems to happen when they walk. (obviously this doesn't work on blood moon nights )

 

As for difficulty, probably putting restrictions on yourself-- for example switch the zombies to run during the day but restrict yourself from leading them out of the POI. You must deal with sleepers within the interiors of the POIs where you find them. That one is too hard for me. I can do it with Jog but I get cornered and overwhelmed too quickly on Run.

 

But maybe you can do it.

[Roland]

I was wrong Roland was right.

What i SHOULD have done is EXACTLY what Roland said

 

 

....but im sure i will [doubt Roland] again, most likely very soon.

 

Finally somebody posted something actually representative of the true majority.

[DiesFourth]

 

 

 

 

Finally somebody posted something actually representative of the true majority.

 

lolololol i take it these " wins " dont come along every day

[OnlyMeiya]

Here's the thing about night. They can't see you until you get within a few meters of them but they can hear you from far away. I have tested this extensively. If you shoot a zombie with an arrow at night and then stealth walk just five meters away they will run towards you but it isn't because they can see you. They are simply running to the spot they last heard you but they won't attack you. You can throw a rock and they will run after it. If, instead, you run or walk away without being crouched making noise they will again start running after you. But they don't see you once you get more than about five meters away. They just follow because the noise you are making keeps giving them an updated point to run to which helps them follow. Once you get even a short distance if you stop, crouch and move away from the last point you were making noise you will lose them.

 

It is a fun way to spend the night now but not very difficult at all. If the zombies were faster then it would be much more risky and enjoyable but as long as you knew the mechanics of it you could still be productive. You would just have to be ready to drop into sneaking and shift away silently before they reached your position. The nice thing about the faster fun speeds is that you always hear their footsteps approaching. Whatever it is that makes them sometimes silently approach only seems to happen when they walk. (obviously this doesn't work on blood moon nights )

 

 

 

But maybe you can do it.

 

I've noticed something to this extent because I do a lot of stealth sniping at night, I am used to "Stick and move" "Hit and run" tactics at night, I just don't want them so fast that kiting them isn't an option anymore.

 

 

As for difficulty, probably putting restrictions on yourself-- for example switch the zombies to run during the day but restrict yourself from leading them out of the POI. You must deal with sleepers within the interiors of the POIs where you find them. That one is too hard for me. I can do it with Jog but I get cornered and overwhelmed too quickly on Run.

 

Fastest Run speed possible?

 

Am I allowed to build inside these POI's and lay traps?

 

What difficulty "Setting" specifically? Insane or default?

[Cirion]

So it was briefly noted earlier on in this thread, but will the fact that zombies actively avoid traps be addressed?

 

I don't mind that if bandits do so (when they're introduced) since bandits should be smart, but zombies should not be smart. lol

[Guppycur]

The idea is that the ai is made as good as possible, FOR the bandits, then that same ai will be dialed down for zombies.

[Cirion]

Ah, so this AI they made was actually intended for the bandits and not the zombies? I suppose that makes some sense.

 

Does that mean we can expect bandits soon? (Alpha 18?)

[OzHawkeye]

Ah, so this AI they made was actually intended for the bandits and not the zombies? I suppose that makes some sense.

 

Does that mean we can expect bandits soon? (Alpha 18?)

 

Fingers crossed. :-)

[Guppycur]

Ah, so this AI they made was actually intended for the bandits and not the zombies? I suppose that makes some sense.

 

Does that mean we can expect bandits soon? (Alpha 18?)

 

I dunno, it's something Richard (the fun pimp) said. But yeah I think I'm right.

[Roland]

Fastest Run speed possible?

 

Am I allowed to build inside these POI's and lay traps?

 

What difficulty "Setting" specifically? Insane or default?

 

No. Run. There is walk, jog, run, sprint, nightmare. Set zombies to run during day so the third fastest. You pick the difficulty setting you want to do and then adjust up or down as needed. Same with zombie speed I guess. I tried jog and run and settled on jog for myself.

 

Sure, stage the interiors how you like. I usually parkour like crazy over couches and tables and run from corner to corner to corner.

 

Maybe I should put some barbed wire on my belt....

[OnlyMeiya]

No. Run. There is walk, jog, run, sprint, nightmare. Set zombies to run during day so the third fastest. You pick the difficulty setting you want to do and then adjust up or down as needed. Same with zombie speed I guess. I tried jog and run and settled on jog for myself.

 

Sure, stage the interiors how you like. I usually parkour like crazy over couches and tables and run from corner to corner to corner.

 

Maybe I should put some barbed wire on my belt....

 

Sure, I'll play around with it, I'll start on the default setting, so this will have to be a ninja run (No pun intended)

[MrVecetti]

Sure, stage the interiors how you like. I usually parkour like crazy over couches and tables and run from corner to corner to corner.

 

Have you not experienced issues post b338 with the landing noise waking up the majority of the zombies that have spawned at that stage of the poi, and just wrecking the walls and more? Same issue when clipping certain objects making a land noise causing this aswell.

 

For instance I have yet to successfully stealth the "old style" pawnshop. As soon as u land on the dumpster, the zombies inside the lootroom (which have spawned already for some reason) open the loot room for you. The same when you jump from the roof above the lootroom to the broken stairwell leading to the roof. The entire 2nd floor hears you and starts breaking up the kitchen to get to you.

 

Or Joe's Bros Building, buildingsite POI. Which is completely parkour based but the zombies always wake up when landing on their platform. While being hidden behind blocks so you cannot kill them prior to getting to the platform.

[Mike06]

I am still trying to give the A17 a fair chance but it been pretty much every day new dissapointment.

 

The lost so much in A17, weapons and tool QL is now meaningless, thei means we lost thousands and thousands of content items.

And I do mean the QL is meaningless, once you level int to what ever is required to get iron QL3 I think it was then the weapon/tool HP exceeds of one repair resource. So it does not matter to get QL6 item with 600HP or QL1 with 100HP as one iron resource repairs 100HP so it does not matter if you repair your 1QL item 4 times or 6QL item once : repar cost is same, damage is same, resource yeald is the same everything is the same !!!

 

So we no longer even have item QL at all not did we lose 594 QL levels and as such as many items. In old time even if you had 590QL AK you were still looking for more weapon parst for it.

 

...as you then still had weapon parts

...and repair quality loss.

 

Now the game is just one boring XP grind to get perk points and repeating boring NPC missions to get maney t buy stuff from NPC vendor, you know like EVERY damn other MMO.

 

They managed even to botch the AI. It had been REALLY broken for years now they "fixed" it and it is even worse. In Zombie game the enemy should be simple stimulus and straight attack path, now they gigh level AI pathing to figure out easyest route to the destination having information they should not have, like that there is a weak boarded window when they run to the other side of the building they can not see and every one or them then starts to run this pathing is train.

 

Zombies should try to attack you by the most direct route, regardless of the danger and damage to themselves. An insect AI not high level deduction.

 

what else..

we lost land claim being hard , now is is just "sand bagging" keep palcing the 5 stone land claim where ever you go.

 

and I alrady mentioned the level grind. normally I have would forge running in 2 game days due to my skill, now skill and knowledge of payer does not mater it is just level grid to open stuff.

 

It is so heartbreaking to see a great game ruined like this, it as an innovative and novel game not is it is just a cheap Fallout clone with voxel.

There is no point exporing , jut camp a city for zed respawn there is not much point in looting either. Just grind level and make what ever you want. Vehicles are pointless as you do not need to move nor explore. As no recipes anything to be gained, all recipes are temporary.

even the weapon power ups (sight, remember when we had weapon parts? ) and you were separately scavenging and exploring to find that one part you were missing and how great it felt when you finally did ?

 

Clearly in A17 point was to make this 100% console game. So now pimps have game no one wants and those (console players) can not have.

 

I am still hanging on the hope this gae got bac on the track but it's not likely. I desperately hoping some of the features we lost might be added back to the game.

 

There is a good stuff in A17 but like one for new improvement, the game lost half dozen existing which pimps spent a lot time and effort to create.

I am imagingin they hired some un imaginative and untalented lead on this game who BS-ed his way into the company and does not own a single original though and is just trying to copy general features from other games to make 7d as generic as possible.

 

The power ups in tools/weapons, come on !!!! Every single POI in a maze with traps, hiding zombies warddropes ?? Mazes where fun when they were in moderation, like the construction site.

Less is more !

[Roland]

Have you not experienced issues post b338 with the landing noise waking up the majority of the zombies that have spawned at that stage of the poi, and just wrecking the walls and more? Same issue when clipping certain objects making a land noise causing this aswell.

 

For instance I have yet to successfully stealth the "old style" pawnshop. As soon as u land on the dumpster, the zombies inside the lootroom (which have spawned already for some reason) open the loot room for you. The same when you jump from the roof above the lootroom to the broken stairwell leading to the roof. The entire 2nd floor hears you and starts breaking up the kitchen to get to you.

 

Or Joe's Bros Building, buildingsite POI. Which is completely parkour based but the zombies always wake up when landing on their platform. While being hidden behind blocks so you cannot kill them prior to getting to the platform.

 

Faatal did a fix on jumping noise at one point. I’ve noticed a big difference to how it was. I’ve jumped up and down inside to see if I could wake up the whole house and it hasn’t been happening.

[OzHawkeye]

Faatal did a fix on jumping noise at one point. I’ve noticed a big difference to how it was. I’ve jumped up and down inside to see if I could wake up the whole house and it hasn’t been happening.

 

Interesting. I tested that in a Navazgane 17.1 game, and while I didn't get every last zombie come marching out, I got most of them.

 

I just jumped up and down outside a few times. I'll try again when next I play.

[Roland]

Could be it is broken. I haven't been able to play since school started. After he logged in the fix I noticed a difference.

[OzHawkeye]

Could be it is broken. I haven't been able to play since school started. After he logged in the fix I noticed a difference.

 

I'll try again tonight, if it happens (and I'll do a proper check in God mode next time), I'll log a bug report. I definitely didn't get all the zombies come marching slowly out, there were some on the 3rd floor (and 4th, s/w corner house in Diersville) that I had to still deal with.