theFlu

"are reproof"?

It seems Jenny-girl has gotten me thrown out of my shack of a house. I can understand, the neighborhood needs to maintain some standards. She gave me a quest nearby, well, it was the next house from mine. Easy as they come. Clicked on the quest marker and .. a warning showed up, "You bedroll has been removed." You what..? Did I make the game public or something? No. Well, it's not like I'm going to die here, carry on. Getting back I find not just my bed, but all my stuff gone. The forge I can't make, the stacks of wolf meat, the coins.. I know most of the useful stuff came from you Jen-jen, but that's still a pretty harsh repo. Well, I was considering a nomad-game for this one anyway, might as well now. It's only night of day 5 so not even a big loss, I just felt like venting a little. Thanks for the ear, traveller. Darn it Jen! (as far reporting goes, I assume it's already known as "Rally marker resets POI’s and removes nearby water")

That sounds like a pretty clear win for the auger IMO. The next time you mine you can also just compare your options. Either do a minute (look at your coffee timer, or a game-hour or something)), or a number of blocks. Prep the area by removing the gravel and other unwanted blocks, so you can just straight up compare results.

Could be called preference for most cases; the auger seems the faster of the two, but there's plenty of complicating factors: - want to save 4 skill points from SexRex? - have an unlimited supply of coffee? - got a good source of fuel? - got the mining books series bonus? (unless they normalized it by now) - how much does your OCD command your mines be tidy (auger tends to favor a messy look as you're hitting everything in sight) - do you hate the sounds

You need to wait for the next day to get the higher tier quests, did you? Other than that, hasn't happened to me, so can't really help..

"Work Truck Accessories Schematic" .. you be running mods, the modding section is that way -> https://community.7daystodie.com/forum/27-mods/ From memory, that recipe is 2400 in vanilla.

Well, if that's how you put it; your "fixes" don't actually fix a thing, if you're still alive, you can always delay your death by your 30 seconds. Or just log log out 30 secs earlier. Just get good at the game so you won't die in the middle of a POI, and learn to take a loss once in your life.

I agree that a lot of the current-meta bases are quite cheesy, but I don't have a clue what you mean by "promoted defense mechanisms". The game doesn't instruct you how to make any type of base, but I can't really see anything it is trying to promote as the right way. At least all the POIs look lore-wise like they've failed their defense, so don't go copying those...

I tend to get them somewhere between my main weapon skills and treasure hunter... The bonuses are stacking in curious ways depending on the patch, would need to check what they actually do now (for instance how they stack with the Urban Combat book that removes the penalties in combat.) The durability is not that big of a deal, but the damage reduction starts to suffer at about half durability, so if you're planning to take plenty of hits on a horde night, it may be pretty significant.

Hmm.. first I'll just point out that I tested it just for fun to see if it's possible; I was a little surprised it was. Why I brought it up was to highlight the absolute unreliableness of the stealth meter; a 19 succeeds where a 1 fails. And I figured it might be an interesting tidbit for anyone involved Second, you're of course right in your implication, sprinting while trying to sneak is generally a bad idea. Then again, sprinting while sneaking could and IMO should be a part of the game play. Let's say you wake up accidentally one or two zeds of a small group; deciding between abandoning stealth entirely or trying to scoot away slow or scoot away fast gives a layer of decisions and game play. And with the way the attack volumes are currently done, there's absolutely no reason NOT to sprint sneak the moment you wake something up, the possible things that didn't wake, are not going to wake from the added visibility of your sprint. Not sure if any can wake from you just getting up either, but .. I guess that would require a lot more testing.. And a little side-note, it's not like sneak sprinting isn't intended to be used ever; there's even a book specifically for it. Yeh, that would be more, umm, "sane", should we say. Then again, I'm having a hard time trying to grasp the noise-chase system, it feels a little wonky. I started a stealth playthru, feral sense is pretty brutal there so currently trying to just max out Agi for 5/5. Not exactly a perfect setting for learning, but I'm just having fun there.. And your second paragraph is basically why I would give frustrated players quite a bit of slack; they're complaining for a reason, they might not have gone thru a couple days of code reading and testing to figure out the exact complaint, but the complaint might still be pretty legit .. EDIT: "fun" I said. Sweet jebus, 2 dire wolves as sleepers in a Tier 2 fetch (house_old_modular_3). Lets say I was happy about my stealth and willingness to exploit pathing. I was hungry going in, not so much going out ...

Looks like he missed the word "mod" in there.

But it's not like some criticism isn't in order; your exchange made me wonder how well stealthing with skills can work. Went back to our warehouse, 5/5 stealth. I could sprint-sneak the first volume I've been testing, without waking either of the two there. Next 3 volumes seemed to agro to sprinting, but not to normal sneaking. They're a bit closer. Oh, right, this was also *high noon*, with no regard to my light levels. The successful sneak-sprint showed my stealth meter at 19 (while I was failing at meter 1 in the night). So the feel of the system isn't exactly there.

That all kinda depends on the purpose of the volume type. Are they supposed to be guarding the final loot or just scare the player? The behaviour might need to be different for each. I'm sure they'll end up somewhere decent. Umm, no thank you. Getting trapped between two auto-agro volumes doesn't sound like an improvement Might help, but I'd rather it be obvious in the zeds themselves somehow; walking speed, different animations, something like that. No idea how feasible such would be though.

Half of them are staring at an exploitable direction, just approach from behind, no vision checks. Unless you're looking for a melee attack, you don't need to get too close, the distance alone is sufficient. Overall, as long as you don't walk right next to one into a cone of light, you'll be pretty much fine. Some quick grep-fu: in the folder POIs there are 212 with more than 2 two or more, and 670 total. The total includes some (at least 40ish) street signs though, so as actual percentage.. At least a third.

I started wondering how I ended up using two days for testing stealth (other than being my usual idiot self), so, I decided to skim through the thread again. Couple things that caught my eye, may have eventually been adressed, but I'll make my points: This challenge from @Roland " Resturaunt_02 Sleeper Volumes: 12" "Can we see the code on that?" I didn't see anyone properly address this here, so: restaurant_02.xml(23): <property name="SleeperVolumeFlags" value="2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2,2" /> They all seem to be attack-volumes - there's more than 12 thou. I dropped in to prefab editor to check; my first time in the editor, the UI takes getting used to - but from what I was able to select, every volume Was indeed "attack". For a list of POIS with >= 6 attack volumes, and less-than-that of other volume types, see spoiler: That is 89 POIs that have "most" set as attack volumes. And by visual guesstimate, about 80% of those have practically "All". The lights-out discussion: "And since light now affects stealth, they need to update the stealthmetre. Because currently it does not (or not correctly) factor light into this value." I'm just seeing the rumor from this kill-the-lights-discussion making every wanna-be-sneaker start beating on lanterns with their stone axes. I can't imagine that being fun for anyone, so I just have to say, "please don't" (my plea shall be drowned in a wall-of-text-thread, but I'll make it anyway) With the way things are, I don't see destroying lights as necessary, nor even that useful. The stealth meter does show when you're lit. The only* moment that being lit will matter is the moment you cross an attack volume threshold. You can usually navigate around the light sources well enough and most of them are NOT pointing on to a volume boundary - destroying the flashlight pointing out a window from the room you just cleared is just extra electrical parts. If a light is pointing straight to a zed, take a ranged shot From the Shadows. If you can't aim, toss a 'nade.. *Sure it effects the normal stealth too, but with the effect size there, you're not going to be surprised by it. You'll be right on the zed anyway.

Hmm, most of the time I craft a blue quality melee weapon for the first horde night (default times). Occasionally I do end up crafting a blue high tier weapon, but I'm usually blaming that on terrible luck. That is, I have looted/quested several 'wrong' types of the same tier by then. This applies to both melee and ranged "best in slot" things. And then I usually end up finding a green upgrade the next day..

Tiny error on the stealth there; as we've been testing above, stealth is really harshly tuned for those, but Boidster stealthed attack volumes successfully with 3/5 From the Shadows. So, "no stealth working" isn't strictly correct, it's just really really hard, "skill points are mandatory" -hard. And yeh, I dislike the attack volume implementation as well.

Hmm.. A wise man once said: Which made me realize, what you described in the later post is all about search and not at all about attack. The Attack volume zeds get an Attack command, not a search? Hmm.. if the code was the whole picture, there would be no QA. But yeh, different perspectives, having worked basically between the coders and the QA, I do appreciate both..

I didn't test it with skills, but I can't squeeze it into a less time when it seemed instantaneous already. Given some delays with how the stealth decisions are made and some noise-chasing and whatnot. If the intent is relentless pursuit for 90/60/20 seconds, then yes, it seems buggy. I'm going to abuse the bug to its full extents, but buggy nonetheless. That walk with the janitor and a quick interview with the local wilderness-types suggests the timer I've been staring at is a homing-timer for sleepers (with a home). Probably nothing to do with anything else, at least the non-sleeper locals didn't even have one. So the 90 might just be me being confused. Hey, the '90s were at least. That may be the design intent, but I'm definitely not the person to make the claim. Your statement of reality.. hmm. As far as I tested: Reality: All zombies forget the player immediately after losing Sight in the stealth sense(, including ones that were triggered with Auto-attack volumes). They will carry on to the spot where the player was last seen and then follow audio ques and such. As in, I didn't test that many normal zeds, but the auto-agros behaved like the rest once they had actually seen me once. The "perk isn't working"-part; I don't think I can say, I've been staring at a timer that doesn't seem to be about that after all. Then again, restealthing in front of their face made them get entirely lost, so; might be the timer-tied-to-the-perk doesn't do anything atm. grep SleeperVolumeFlags.*2 *.xml is the reason I chose that POI, it was full of two's and existed in my navezgane test world. Most if not all of the volumes there are attack volumes (unless that xml part doesn't apply anymore?) So, "Active mode" = sleeping and doing normal stealth checks. Yes, the wake number changes based on my distance. Light changes based on stealth and illumination state, don't even need to crouch to have a comparison number there. If Light > wake, and the zed has LoS to you, it wakes. So when I said about 200, it was about 200 (218 or so) the moment I stepped on the trigger volume. And my Light was ~3. EDIT: @Boidster , btw, I'm not reacting much to the code snippets; not because I don't appreciate you digging in there, but because I pretty much know one can't figure out the entire system too easily by code-reading. There's always some details lost in the reading - unless it is your own code, and very recently written even then. But, keep it up, I assume you're doing it mostly for educational purposes anyway ..

Couple corrections for my part; The "Sight" I was referring to is called "wake" while they sleep, and the value was about 200 compared to the 3 to trigger, so that's .. 60 times higher? The timer related to the auto-agro-chase doesn't seem to change with the skills spent in From the Shadows, it's still 90 at 3/5. /shrug EDIT: Upon a little further testing of said timer; we had a lovely little walk with the handsome janitor, but after the 90 seconds, he just figured he needs to go home. So he walked to the nearest wall and kept walking at it and walking at it. Me standing there, with my torch, in plain sight didn't seem to be of interest to him anymore. So I shot him.

From testing with the debug info on. The zeds in that warehouse break room have a "Sight" about something like 30-40 (from memory). If I step on the trigger-line with a "Light" value of 3, they agro. That is 10x, the "3-10x" is just off the cuff. I suppose it could also be doing a stealth test in the crouched-branch of said if()? I mean, that's how it behaves...

Hmm. A lot of that feels weird in light of my testing; I take your word that's how it is implemented, but I don't see how to explain: - the actual 90 second timer I saw, if it should be set to 60 (maybe the 60 is something else in the code..? And make sure you won't break the Stealth perks while in there, those effect the timer as well. The max rank reducing it down to 20 currently - based only on description of the perk). - the test where I reveal myself with a torch to restealth almost instantly after. The timer with a standard vision agro has to be different, at least (zero?) and as such reset upon 'normal' agro? Which is why I suggested increased senses; if line-of-sight would be an issue, making the player have a baseline heartbeat-sound for the sensitive zeds to catch wouldn't bother me. They would attack just as relentlessly until you get outta dodge, the ones with a clear way to run could still get to you before you can react. Love the responses, thanks EDIT: seems the stealth perks aren't affecting That timer anyway.

I'm not against the idea, but it wouldn't solve any of my dislikes here .. The current Attack volumes are implemented 'outside' the stealth mechanics, which causes all kinds of sillyness. Current Attack volume: 1) Check upon entering if we can "detect" the player at 3-10 times more accurate senses 2) If spotted, give the zeds a specific attack mode until they reach the player 3) Once seeing the player, revert to normal behaviour The issue caused directly by this; for an aggressive Attack volume, your only chance of Stealthing is to .. stop stealthing. Once the zeds have seen you, you can stealth again. What I'd suggest to be similar but more consistent with the rest of the game: 1) Whatever zed is spawned in an "Attack volume", give it 2-5 times better senses. Or 20. Just numbers. 2) Behave as normal. Now the zeds will feel impossible to lose, because they practically are. But at least they would have normal and self-consistent behaviour.

Because the UI pretends I'm just as hidden, but I apparently am not. Maybe they're simulating Dunning-Kruger for my character? Good info about the noise/light thresholds. I was aware, they're kinda shown in the debug info, but good info. Being aware of those and seeing how poorly they correlate with Attack volume levels of attack and with the stealth meter, we can see the special type of agro implemented for the Attack volumes. And sure, I get "why" we're here. The auto-agro is Necessary if you want any zeds to wake up *easier* than the normal stealth mechanic would allow. If you don't have a special-GPS-type-agro active, you would have to rely on the normal stealth checks for Attack volume zeds. That would of course mean the zeds just straight up lose agro at the first "normal" stealth check, which is pretty instant. They would just wake up and stand still without auto-agro.

Good test, I can confirm; that's what happens with 3/5 From the Shadows. With 0/5, you'll see the auto-agros a lot more clearly. Make them walk, Set the zombie night speed to "walk." Walk across the front door stair-trigger and observe the break room. They are way too far to see you "legit" with their "normal" senses. Try to shake them during the 90 sec timer. You can see that with the debug info (toggle: numpad 0) killall, killall, sleeperreset Second test, after triggering them, let them see you (show them a torch) Try to shake them. Easily done before the 90 secs is up. This is a different type of agro, granted with stupidly heightened senses. Whatever you want to call it, it Feels completely different from the normal game mechanic.