Roland
-
Posts
14,144 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Days Won
393
Content Type
Profiles
Forums
Store
Articles
A20 Bugs
A21 Bugs
Events
Posts posted by Roland
-
-
5 hours ago, Niil945 said:
If you choose not to acknowledge the point that's your choice. It's not a complicated matter. And this is exactly what I meant about handwaving. It's a survival game. How one can argue that time isn't a factor in almost everything is beyond me as early game time pressure is a big deal in any survival game I've ever played including this one. Time is even referenced in the name of the game which makes your position all the more amusing.
Well, I give up. If you feel a time crunch in this game I guess you feel a time crunch. Time is in the name, you’re correct about that. You feel pressure because something bad will happen if you don’t manage time and play efficiently enough? Where is this pressure you’re feeling coming from? I’d like to hear what it is.
5 hours ago, Niil945 said:Simply repeating your opinion at me when I disagree isn't a discussion.
I didn’t simply repeat it. I followed up with arguments for why it is free. They are still printed if you scroll up a bit and reread them. Or not. I’m guessing not so I guess we are done. If you want to address the points I made as to why the food you gain is free and of benefit even at LOTL 0 I’d be interested to read them.5 hours ago, Niil945 said:You've gone out of your way to make your argument about me personally and the way I play.
That is simply not true. I’m sorry you see it that way. I think you are injecting malice into my text that doesn’t exist. I’m a flippant writer. Always have been. I guess that has worked against me with you. Our personalities are at odds perhaps.
I have been referencing your play style but not to attack it. When I referenced you doing lots of quests it was simply to show that you are using the time that plants grow productively to demonstrate that that growth time costs you nothing. You are using the time very effectively.
The other time I referenced your play style was simply an honest observation that POIs that are slated for quests might not be the POIs that have good chances at finding seeds. It was not an attack at all. It was a tip from one player to another. Boidster made the same observation. If you think it’s a bad tip then don’t follow it but it wasn’t meant as an attack.
The final reference to your play style was simply part of my argument that this game has no actual time constraints. It wasn’t an attack any more than saying that playing dead is dead is a voluntary play style is an attack against that. It’s perfectly fine to play Dead is Dead and it’s perfectly fine to focus on efficiency. I know you disagree and believe that there are time-based reasons to try and play as efficiently as possible. I’d still like to learn what they are because I can’t think of any.
5 hours ago, Niil945 said:0 point investment comparison - I've explained I don't see it on an even playing field with other skills at 0 and why.
I know. You also said it doesn’t bother you that much because you are fine with some asymmetry. Me too. That’s why I didn’t argue that point.
5 hours ago, Niil945 said:Time delay between getting a seed and getting the yield - matters to me, you've tried to say it doesn't matter in very longwinded ways.
I didn’t say it doesn’t matter that there is a delay between finding a seed and using it’s fruit in recipes. I simply stated that the seed you found and the fruit you got from it is free food because you are not forced to babysit the growing process. YOU said that the planting and harvesting and planter crafting were very negligible cost wise but it was the time delay that was the real cost. Our whole discussion has come about because I claimed that seeds you find are free food and you disagreed. I’ve explained why the growth time doesn’t represent a cost and you keep saying I’m wrong but with no explanation as to why growth time makes it so that seeds you find aren’t free.
I agree that seeds represent a delayed benefit compared to finding actual food. There is no argument from me on that and it does matter—especially if you are low on food right now. Of course….it would matter more if you could actually die from hunger or if other food sources were more scarce or if there was food spoilage.
5 hours ago, Niil945 said:Some people are going to dislike this change and they have entirely valid reasons for disliking it.
Of course. I’ve never said otherwise. My discussion with you has mainly been focused on whether seeds you find are free or not. I haven’t said anything about whether farming should be liked or disliked by anyone other than me. You did ask the mods to simply outline why we like the new farming and I did exactly that with v, w, x, y, z reasons. Maybe you missed that post?
I can be pretty cheeky at times but I realize that some people don’t respond well to that. I apologize and assure you I will play it straight with you in all future posts. I can keep it all business.
2 -
I liked @hiemfire's tin can and candle primitive miner light for the tier 0.
Here's the thing though. In Alpha 20 I have really noticed the effect that light has on our stealth meter. Often zombies run right past me at night if I am crouching (my family didn't want to play feral mode...). Does a brand new vulnerable player really want to strap what amounts to a dinner bell on their head? We might not be able to see very well but with no light source attached to us we are all but invisible to zombies at night if we are being careful. Seems safer with no light until we get more defensive and offensive gear which usually coincides closer with finding a light mod for the helmet. A primitive hands free light mod may just have some unintended consequences for brand new players....
2 -
15 hours ago, Vaeliorin said:
Hoeing was a one time thing, replanting isn't.
When we had hoeing we ALSO had to replant just like now
0 -
No need to feel homesick for A16. Opt in. She is waiting for you arms outspread.
1 -
9 hours ago, Niil945 said:
It's an intentionally silly hypothetical that demonstrates my point.
We can both agree that your hypothetical was silly. In fact it is so silly that it in no way demonstrates your point. In fact, it actually demonstrates my points. (which you decided you wanted to avoid at all costs so you called them tangential and judgemental despite the fact that they were not)
In real life there ARE deadlines with death being the final deadline-- so time absolutely matters-- especially 50 years given the average lifespan of a human being. We can lose our jobs if we don't make deadlines or even get an entire forum riled up if we miss a target date... In life, time has a lot of value because you usually have to choose one way to spend your time or another.
In the game there are no deadlines. Death is not permanent and the timespans we are talking about are measured in hours of real time. Therefore, time really has no bearing or value in the way you are trying to say it does and the way time does in life. There definitely are times in the game we have to choose to spend our time between two activities but plants growing is not one of those. There really is a difference between activities that resolve themselves without your need to actively tend them and activities that can only be resolved with your active participation when it comes to valuing the time those activities take to resolve. You can deny it just for the sake of arguing but it is so self-evident a truth that I feel confident everyone else reading this convo are going to side with me.
9 hours ago, Niil945 said:More deflectionary tangential arguments. I not particularly concerned with you trying to justify LotL balance by being judgmental about the way I choose to engage in entertainment.
I call bull@%$# on this. My arguments were core to the idea of placing a value on time and opportunity costs. They were also compelling which is why you are the one who has decided to completely ignore them and instead label it as judgemental so you have an excuse to not answer. I'll lay it out succinctly one more time and I promise I don't care how you play the game.
With no deadlines that spell failure, there are no real time constraints in the game and no designed reasons to play efficiently and worry about time. The desire to play efficiently is purely a personal preference since the game goes on forever with no end and the player can effortlessly keep up with the difficulty curve of the game even without playing efficiently since the worlds difficulty curve is mostly based off of the player's levels. This is key and not tangential to an argument about the value of time. I am not saying it is bad to play efficiently, I am explaining that without a deadline that equals losing to race against, efficiency as a strategy for winning is nonexistent except in the personal objectives of the player-- just like playing Dead is Dead. There is nothing in the game that supports the playstyle of Dead is Dead other than a player's choice to self-enforce and do it for their own pleasure.
Now, as to the comments about your playstyle of only clearing POIs if they are part of a quest, I wasn't coming down in judegement-- just suggesting along with others that it might be the reason why you are not finding more seeds. But I get it. You didn't ask for play tips and you don't want play tips from the likes of us. When my brother and mother and myself each share quests with each other and go do them boom boom boom we often get three or more done in a day so I'm not judging you for spamming quests. My only point on that was that you were using the growth time of the plants to simultaneously get very valuable and lucrative activities done so there was no actual time lost.
9 hours ago, Niil945 said:That's not what I said. Taking a snippet, reducing it to that, and then ignoring context of the rest of what I said isn't actually addressing my position in any way. It does demonstrate why some people think there are condescending, attacking mods on the forums. I'll be here if you want to actually address my argument.
Okay, lets take the whole thing:
17 hours ago, Niil945 said:First nothing is 'free'. It all takes time to acquire, farm, and utilize. And at weeks into the game a handful of 35-50 point meals that also require other stuff isn't a benefit with the amount of food we need and the rate at which food kits appear, let alone all the other sources of food it competes against as a source. There's a finite amount of food one needs and holding onto the yield of a couple seeds in the hope that it can amount to a days worth of food later is a tad silly. If we had a way to try to get specific recipes that would be different, but we don't. There's no way to 'work' towards any specific recipe aside from perking into the chef line. Though that's similar to most other skills unperked so I don't have an issue with that angle of it at all. But don't hyperbolize it to be more than what it is.
It is free. You found it without having to pay anyone anything. If you were doing a quest at the time then you were even being paid for going through that building. You were paid for the objective and anything you find at the same time is yours as a bonus--- for free. If you can't grok this concept then imagine the paycheck you receive for working and then imagine finding that sum of money hidden under a rock out in the forest. I bet that found money would feel like.... free money. If that is too tangential to our conversation then imagine going to the store and paying for a packet of seeds and then imagine a neighbor who finished her gardening walks over and hands you all her extra seeds. Free.
We both already agree that the planting and harvesting and even the crafting of the farm plots is extremely negligible in cost and that just leaves the time for growing which I clearly explained is no real cost to you since you are free to simultaneously do other things. You have lost zero time waiting for the plants to grow. You have not changed my mind on this point by calling it handwaving like that is some sort of legit debate strategy...
As to whether weeks of those stored up corn and potatoes are going to be worth anything to a player who has food from other sources, that will be situational but almost always a positive result. If you get a food drop with a kit that gives you 10 meat stews on top of all the canned goods you've found then you might regret ever planting those seeds and storing the corn and the potatoes or you might cook a few more meat stews to add to your stack of ten and be glad you had the mats to do that. Everyone is different. Speaking for myself, I would be glad to have them. I would see that fruit as supplementing my overall food strategy. Honestly, I can't imagine anyone regretting they had a crate with harvested crops in it.
I disagree that it is silly to keep those found seeds in a crate for however long and then to plant them and harvest them and keep the fruit for however long even if it did only result in enough food to make one meal that gets you through one day. I think even at LOTL 0 you would (over weeks you said) gather more than that measley amount of seeds and there is absolutely no downside to keeping it in a crate in your base-- at least not the way the game is designed presently. Even though I make plenty of money to support my family's needs I still get a thrill when I find a forgotten $10 in a pocket of a pair of pants I haven't worn in a long time. I don't think, "How silly, what do I need this $10 for? I make so much more than that and all my financial needs are already being met. I sure wish I hadn't kept this or found it"
As for not being able to work towards specific recipes other than spending skillpoints that is true but spending skillpoints IS a way to work towards specific recipes and we DO have all the time without any deadline to earn those points and spend them. In addition, recipes drop commonly and it really doesn't take long to get (again for free) a recipe that can utilize some of whatever you stored.
Now, I have addressed your arguments but you haven't addressed mine. Calling my arguments names and acting like I'm judging your playstyle don't count. I've been here for years and will be here for years whenever you're ready to actually address what I've said. I would particularly like to hear why you think that the fact that this game has no deadlines, gives you infinite time to acheive everything, and keeps pace with the speed of the player are just tangential to an argument about the value of time.
5 -
5 hours ago, NICULL said:
Dude the new blood moon music sounds good, but it just doesnt really work well for blood moon action lol we felt like the old combat music is better, if the new bm music was used for regular combat it would actually sound much better
oh yeah, I’ll use this one instead of the one where you said 20 of you do not like and even hate the music….
0 -
3 hours ago, Niil945 said:
I don't understand the point you're trying to make here. It's 2 game days or 3 for shrooms.
Waiting for plants to grow is not time you have spent on those seeds because you are not forced to do nothing but wait. By your own admission you're doing 7-9 quests while those shrooms are growing. What exactly was the time cost to you for those shrooms growing? Zippo--- because you were spending that time playing in other value adding ways and the shrooms grew without you having to spend bupkiss. So.....free.
In addition, unless you are playing with all the difficulty sliders set to the highest, nobody is exactly behind the gun timewise in trying to stay ahead of the difficulty curve. I mean look at you Mister Three-Quests-A-Day. How is the world progression curve ever going to be able to keep up with you? So it doesn't matter in the least how long it takes for things to happen. There is no deadline that you are trying to get everything done by or you lose it and saying there is a time constraint to keep up with the difficulty curve of the game is laughable on anything less than the most difficult settings-- and if you chose those settings then you want such challenges anyway.
My point is that the seeds you find are free and can be converted for extremely miniscule time cost to you into valuable crops. Granted, most of the value is potential value, but in a game with no end other than your decision to end it and no spoilage of anything you store, that potential value will turn into actual value at some point. Hence even with LOTL 0 players gain value from planting seeds even if they can't build up a self sustaining farm.
4 hours ago, Niil945 said:Don't handwave away the point.
You overuse this phrase and it seems like it has become your way to ignore opposing viewpoints without addressing them. I don't think I was handwaving. I think I was refuting your claim that seeds take up a precious inventory slots and so the opportunity cost of that slot being plugged by a dumb seed when it could hold a precious beef ration makes it not worthwhile to collect seeds when you are at LOTL 0. It isn't just a handwave and a wink to say that there really are no tough inventory slot decisions in the game. It is simplicity itself to work around the inventory size. People either do it with stash boxes without mods or they mod humungous packs that remove the entire issue entirely. For inventory management to actually be something so concerning that you really couldn't keep everything you really wanted, we would have to start out without a backpack and only a few slots to represent our belt a pocket or two. Then slowly progress to having all the slots we have now. I actually played once where I filled every slot of my pack with plant fibers and opened a usuable slot every time I leveled up. Now THAT required tough choices in leaving stuff behind-- but even in that case if I cared enough I just made multiple trips to make sure I got everything. Now that does take time but again-- what deadline are we rushing towards anyway? The game goes on forever.
So that is my opinion of course but I think it is valid. Maybe YOUR stance that inventory management is tough and critical and seeds won't have enough value at LOTL 0 to ever earn a slot is the handwaving after all...
4 hours ago, Niil945 said:I've made that choice many times, and it's not a choice between 1 can of beef and 3 seeds, it's between 1 can of beef and 1 seed. 2-3 seeds is where I think it starts becoming an interesting choice for someone with 0 LotL and if that actually happened I'd be fine with the state of farming
The problem here goes back to what @Boidster pointed out about your choice of world exploration. You pretty much have blinders on to any POIs in the area that aren't quest destinations. Have you ever driven through a city simply to uncover it completely from the fog of war on your map and scout out interesting places that might have the things you are looking for? If all you are doing is quests and even in those POIs rushing to finish the objective, hit the treasure room, and fly back to the trader then it is no wonder that you are only getting 1 seed in your backpack. It's your game though and if exploring POIs in the environment outside of the quest system feels too inefficient then you've got to make that choice for yourself. I guess I would just ask (again) what the deadline is you are trying to be efficient to beat? If you did 2 quests and explored 2 other POIs without a quest objective instead of doing 4 quests, how are you going to "get behind" in a game you can keep playing forever and whose difficulty curve is based upon your own level? Does it really matter if you hit day 20 at Level 15 instead of Level 25? <shrug>
But regardless of any of that, I still really doubt that the choice was ever between 1 seed and 1 can of beef. I can't believe that out of all those slots there wasn't something else you could have dropped or set aside. I mean if you were full and it was all more valuable than a can of beef then that POI is worth two trips to get everything.
4 hours ago, Niil945 said:First nothing is 'free'. It all takes time to acquire, farm, and utilize.
yeah, I disagree with your handwaving here. It is pretty free if not completely free when you find something and didn't pay for it. If you find while on a quest then you basically got paid to find that seed and anything else in there while completing the mission. As I already pointed out, the game doesn't end. It extends forever and we are more than capable of keeping up with the difficulty curve so the "cost of time" is pretty meaningless.
Now if you had 50 days to escape before the second wave of bombs were going to obliterate everything and there was no escaping that then I agree that time becomes important and you as the player would need to make serious choices. But as the game stands right now, playing efficiently is just for bragging rights and personal fulfillment for people who care about that in video games.
4 hours ago, Niil945 said:There's a finite amount of food one needs and holding onto the yield of a couple seeds in the hope that it can amount to a days worth of food later is a tad silly. If we had a way to try to get specific recipes that would be different, but we don't. There's no way to 'work' towards any specific recipe aside from perking into the chef line.
Its not silly to store food up to use later-- especially since you are almost guaranteed given enough time to be able to use those ingredients because meal recipes are pretty common. I mean that is the main crux of the argument that quite a few people make that it is unwise to spend any points in cooking since you'll end up with a nice variety of recipes anyway. As you say, there are plenty of other ways to get food and that is exactly what you should choose to focus on if you stick to LOTL 0. The seeds you find and plant will take no time to plant and harvest and you don't have to watch them grow while twiddling your thumbs and they won't rot while sitting in your crates against the future day when they might come in handy. There is nothing ever silly about storing something that costs you zero to keep that might be worth something someday particulary when the odds are so much in your favor. But disagree and don't do it. That's perfectly fine. I just think other players will still find some value in seeds and planting with LOTL 0 as long as their expectations are what I've describe for that level of investment.
1 -
6 minutes ago, Niil945 said:
It's not free. It's time
Meh...maybe if you are playing on 10 minute days but given that quite a few like to play 120 minute days I would say that if it isn't free then it's a couple of
pennies at most.
8 minutes ago, Niil945 said:And it takes an inventory slot that is precious early game.
Really not an issue as there are so many ways to mitigate storage. Most people have no problem managing their inventory slots. Those who hate losing anything will make multiple trips anyway or fill up multiple stash crates in order to get it all and seeds won't crimp that strategy. Those who toss stuff aside will decide for themselves if seeds are worth keeping over other stuff. At any rate regardless of what you choose to toss or keep over seeds-- all of it was free stuff you found so the cost is still close to zero.
If someone stood over you and forced you into a Sophie's Choice between a large beef ration vs a pile of 2-3 corn seeds then you might need to do some comparative value and opportunity cost analysis but nobody will do that. In every conceivable case I can think of you could always take both.
15 minutes ago, Niil945 said:To make it into something more requires either finding a recipe or perking into cooking and the other combined ingredients. It only becomes profitable when you can get more out of it than the base value which doesn't happen at 0 LotL.
I don't agree with that. That invalidates all "saving for a future rainy day" just because you want to turn a blind eye to potential value in favor of current value. It is true that if after weeks of playing you had a crate full of fruit you couldn't craft into meals then all that saving and all those seeds amounted to zero value. But if you find a recipe that utilizes them (again a free find) then all of a sudden the potential value of all that fruit converts into actual value and you have quite a bit of real ingredients that can be converted into real meals that you wouldn't have if you hadn't invested those seeds into harvests and kept and saved the fruit.
It's a gamble but recipes are pretty common and so it is a pretty safe gamble and with nothing investing in LOTL you can potentially come into quite a bit of benefit in the game. Nobody must do it but it is an option to ignore LOTL and just plant and harvest whatever comes your way and see if it ends up being a waste of time or a nice little benefit when the time comes. With a crate full of different crops it may mean that you decide it is worth investing some points into Master Chef of your own choice in order to use all the potential value sitting in your crate.
Now realistically, I would probably put one point into LOTL minimum every single time I play solo just to have the extra harvest and the ability to get an actual farm going.
0 -
50 minutes ago, Kyonshi said:
I choose to play a survival game but I don't wanna deal with the survival aspect. I wish the Pimps would give me stuff so I don't have to survive so hard in a survival game.
Like I find it so excruciating to have to hunt for food or even easier, loot around. We should start with a full catering service waiting for us beside where we wake up when we start the game. Oh and speaking of which, why are we full nood?? Is it asking too much to have at least walk-in with appropriate clothing before I start eating my breakfast?
And exploring... Omfg, this is the worst. I gotta WALK. Pimps, why the hell can't we have a pick-up service from the traders, to drive us around? Like Uber, but call it Trader instead.
LeT mE pLaY tHe WaY i WaNt. I don't see why I should be forced to survive in a post-nuclear-pandemic apocalypse, with no remaining and functioning structures and systems, if I don't want to. Please fix the game according to my most remote desires. 🙏
While I agree with the principle of working for what you get, I think you are being a bit harsh here in response to a suggestion for a primitive hands free light source. It wouldn't be as game breaking or OP as some of the sarcastic parallels you drew would be. Since you can throw down a torch pretty much any time you want, it wouldn't be much of a game changer to have a torch that can be lashed on anyways. Lighten up a bit Kyonshi. If the OP was actually asking for an Uber or a catering service then I could see your response being fitting. But a primitive hands-free light that will be obsoleted pretty quickly as soon as the first helmet light mod is found? That's not really worth all your effort here.
Be nice!
1 -
One of the fixes in the next build being released for experimental is that when an entity damages a zombie they leave destruction mode. I wonder if there were 8 zombies in destruction mode if you threw a rock whether they would all abandon their task and chase after the rock. Zombies who have targeted a player will ignore thrown rocks but I don't know about zombies in destruction mode.
1 -
13 minutes ago, Boidster said:
Yellow = regular zombie
Blue = strong zombie
Red = boss zombie
Pink = unicorn zombie (mythical)
Your bags have never gone plaid? n00b...
0 -
I'll break Zack's heart for you and let him know.
1 -
They won't reverse it but they might swing the pendulum back a bit if they discover they went too far. I doubt that it will return to the levels it was at previously.
I don't know that we will get that many tears. Youtubers were among the loudest and first voices stating that in their opinion there was way too much ammo. But you never know. People can always turn their loot to 200% or more if they decide they liked the larger ammo counts.
2 -
On 1/24/2022 at 5:20 PM, bloodmoth13 said:
Farming solves that, but currently farming is only profitable with LotL investment, which removes any access to reliable crops.
Some players seem to think that its fine as is. Some argue that its good that food isnt reliable and the current system isnt broken, but they all use living off the land 3
If you got the seeds for free then any level of planting and harvesting is profitable without any points spent. Simply planting seeds and harvesting them for fruit that you then place in a container and save for future recipes is better than nothing at all.
Not everyone is using LOTL 3. The huge misconception at the very beginning that many people made simply by reading the patch notes instead of actually playing the game was that farming could not be sustainable until LOTL 3 and that misconception keeps getting reposted and renewed with each additional new thread that each new random person who makes the assumption comes on to voice their outrage. More and more reports from people who actually play the game and test the farming at LOTL 1 and LOTL 2 without prejudice are finding that farming is viable without having to go all in with perk points. You can't do it at LOTL 0 for sure and I know there are some who desire the LOTL 3 ability to reliably create a large farm that is self sustaining without having to invest any points like we had it in A19
On 1/24/2022 at 5:20 PM, bloodmoth13 said:so i see that as dishonest since they are playing with those rules removed and LotL 3 just reverts everything to a19 standards with more legwork.
This happens a lot frankly during development. Often a feature is first added for everyone at a high level. During a later iteration it is then subdivided into low medium and high tiers and people realize that they were playing at the highest intended tier all along. We used to only have one single pickaxe in the game and we could mine with it pretty well. Then "Pickaxe" was broken up into tiers with stone, iron, and steel picks as well as quality tiers for each and players came to see that what they had been using as just the standard (only) pickaxe in the game was actually a pretty high tier level and all of a sudden their ability to mine was nerfed until they could progress up to the level they had originally been used to mining at from the very beginning for free. It is just the nature of development. Old timers feel it keenly while new players have no prior experience to compare.
It is understandable that old timers are going to look at LOTL 3 in A20 and feel underwhelmed after playing LOTL 0 for A19. It can be tough to do but it is always advisable to play each alpha with a fresh outlook and "forget" about what the game used to be like. The internal testers have to do that on a daily to weekly basis when testing internal builds because so much can change suddenly.
2 -
On 1/25/2022 at 12:19 PM, pahbi said:
The effort thats been put into defending farming is really bizarre, I've never seen anything like it before.
How do you know if you have all of us on your ignore list...lol
0 -
On 1/25/2022 at 11:23 AM, Niil945 said:
If people (them included) said "I like the new farming system because x, y, z" and reflected on how the changes impact them and their preferred gameplay, cool.
I like the new farming system because
x: It more fully creates a progression arc for farming from very basic simply planting seeds you acquire to grow some ingredients to be saved for filling meals as a small part of the player's strategy of maintaining their hunger to spending 1 point in LOTL which enhances that strategy by getting more crops from harvest and on up to finally LOTL 3 where you are guaranteed to have large farms and farming is the core of your strategy for maintaining hunger. It beats A19 in this regard because there was no progression. You could attain large self sustaining farms with no perk investment so the progression was super flat and uninteresting.
y: It fits better with the rest of the game where you can do an activity at a basic level for modest returns unperked but can do much greater things once perked up. Anyone can plant seeds and bring in a harvest of crops without spending any points and those crops can be used for food without spending any points (provided you find the recipe of course). That is the basic rudimentary level. With perks you can do so much more.
z: I like finding seeds in loot now whereas before it was pretty much a non-issue once I had plants in the ground because those plants were eternally regrowing. Seeds quickly became a complete non-issue. It is still a much more exciting find the first time you get a seed you did not have before but even after you have a farm well developed it is a happy find to get some seeds.
w: The new farming has impacted our team by making it a more co-operative experience. We all help out in ways that we can. Obviously, only the highest perked person is going to harvest but everyone can help plant and there is a lot more communication between us as far as what seeds we need to be on the lookout for and celebrations when someone announces they found a seed we were needing. Nothing near this level of teamwork ever existed for us prior to A20 in any of the past iterations of farming.
v: I like the planting requirement over the regrowth feature. I know that some find it tedious but I like active farming more than auto farming in this game. Everything is just clicks of the mouse when you boil it down and what is fun vs boring will differ for each person but planting seeds doesn't feel any more chore-like than mining ore or upgrading blocks. I like being able to reconfigure the farm plots each time.
I'm glad TFP made this change and I think it is a huge positive step in the right direction. I agree with the philosophy of design in which we can do things at a basic level and have many different avenues available to us for getting food and if we want even better results and guarantees then we can invest points in those areas in order to have that improvement. I believe farming moved in just such a direction whereas before it was too easy and too rewarding for zero investment.
0 -
Destruction mode. (sigh)
It should be a horde night only feature.
1 -
Both. I like to take over any two story house and remove the stairs and completely gut the second floor which I then redesign the way I want.
In my most recent play, I have built an underground bunker and am having a lot of fun expanding it and changing the rock walls and ceilings to cobblestone blocks.
My kids have said that they want me to duplicate our actual home so that will probably be my next base.
0 -
3 hours ago, gurutar said:
I just hope Mad Mole doesn't look at people complaining about it and decide to backtrack. Investing points in farming to get a better harvest makes perfect sense.
The problem with happy people is that they follow the rules and all respond within the one thread made to be positive. Mad people say F the rules and they all make their own separate threads even though there are already threads against. But I doubt TFP will backtrack this change. The farming outfit benefits are most likely going to be designed off of this farming. If you really think about it, what additional benefits could have been added by clothing on behalf of the old farming when you were already able to make a self-sustaining farm without even any investment into perks...?
4 -
36 minutes ago, Darklegend222 said:
As for your other statements, they are all sound. However, it comes back to exp being a necessity. If you igore exp, your now far behind than every single one of your friends, and now you have to deal with zombies at their level when you're not there yet. Which is exactly why people push for all the shared exp so hard. Is it not immersive and breaks the laws of physics? Yep, but does it make sure everyone is on the same playing field and no one is left behind in a PvE survival game about surviving hordes? Absolutely.
I get it. I just don't like it. I'm behind in my own group simply because I don't play as often. Even so I wouldn't want to be gifted a bunch of xp I didn't earn myself. I hate it when I log back in and my family tells me there are tools and weapons in the crates for me and they are all two levels above what I had. Now I'm skipping. Its essentially the same as just grabbing stuff from the creative menu or giving myself xp through the console commands. Shared xp from kills while we are all together on a quest feels fine but just leeching xp from someone upgrading blocks and mining coal and I'm not even helping them....?
I mean lets take it a step further. Since I can't play as often why not have the game pool all the shared xp I'm missing out on while offline and the rest of my team is playing and then when I finally do log in I just get it all. Too far? (I can hear some of you salivating at this idea....)
2 -
2 hours ago, Matt115 said:
If you sit underground they just know ( if you are quiet and you don't use anything warm) they know about that. So just change that under 10 block you cannot be dectected by zombies on ground.
I've been playing for the last two weeks in the wasteland with an underground base I dug under the main road near the trader. My shaft goes straight down with a ladder about 7 blocks. We forge stuff, cook stuff mine out outgoing tunnels and.....nothing. Not a single zombie has dug down to get us-- in the wasteland. We aren't close to bedrock. One time we left the hatch open and 3-4 zombies came down and we killed them and then ran up topside and killed a few more.
I dunno....not really seeing in my game what you are seeing in yours. Could be a bug I'm experiencing. Hope so because it has been a cake walk and we were kind of hoping for more of a mole war.
3 -
5 minutes ago, Laz Man said:
Right now since zombies are the main threat its more fun the way it is now.
It will always be more fun the way it is now vs the way he wants it. Bandits have nothing to do with it. He wants a boring game that fits his own idea of the way zombies should act even though it means it would be super boring. He should just turn zombies off and pretend they are all stuck behind stuff where he can't see them. It would be the same game.
3 -
1 hour ago, Matt115 said:
if they blocked by car they will just look on you .
48 minutes ago, Matt115 said:In typical zombie games you can find zombie stucked in collapsed building
53 minutes ago, Matt115 said:POI's looks good but zombie can easy destroy that by making holes in wall etc.
Thank goodness the Devs don't think like you do. Zombies that just look at you and don't try to eat you when they see you? That's typical?
I'm glad they bash holes in the wall and come through. I'm glad they don't just stand there when a car is in the way. I'm glad the devs work hard making sure the zombies DON'T just stay stuck behind rubble.
What you want sounds like a mod. A super boring unfun mod but a mod nontheless.
1 hour ago, Matt115 said:This looks like someone was making game with realistic setting but this person't coudn't make zombie models and guns so he decided to by them in asset store.
That's pretty insulting. You seem to be in a minority of people who don't like the zombie models or the guns. I assure you that they are all made by our artists and not purchased from an asset store and while beauty is in the eye of the beholder your eye seems skewed compared to most players. At any rate the art is not going to redone so there is no point in giving any more such feedback. It won't change anything. You can also just give up on zombie behavior. It is never going to be what you want. They are still tuning it but...you know...slightly tuning it. Their current level of intelligence is close to where they want it. Really close.
1 hour ago, Matt115 said:So for now this is like frankenstein monster- a lot of things sewn together
Don't rile the monster...
1 -
What's funny about shared XP and everyone here suggesting that it ALL should be shared, is what the original intent of shared xp was. @theFlu was exactly right about the reasoning and that was because when it was first implemented the default setting was that you had to be close together in a party working together for the sharing to even happen. But with options for distances all the way up to map wide (or is that a mod?), I think most players play xp sharing map-wide (or whatever the max unmodded distance is) which is really (in my opinion) silly. Full disclosure: I do it too-- because my family insists.
But I don't know how it can be justified that I get part of the kill xp that someone 2 km away made. I wasn't involved at all. How did I learn anything by it? It makes no sense. So if my buddy is mining 2km away in what way would his actions build experience within me? (I certainly hope nobody who praised LBD because of how much sense it made for gaining experience is in here pushing for shared xp from a long distance...heheh)
I'd be for sharing xp of every single activity in the game as long as the devs hard-code in that you must be within 10 meters of anyone you want to share with so you at least have to be able to see what they are doing to learn from it. Shared xp was supposed to be an incentive to party up and play together. It wasn't intended to simply be a tool to try and keep everyone at about the same level and that seems to be how a lot of people in this thread are viewing it and why they feel it is unbalanced. It is unbalanced for keeping everyone's xp in the party in equilibrium because that isn't the purpose for which it was created.
I'd be interested to know how many people play shared xp with default proximity rules in place.
1
Homesick for A16. Where has all the difficulty gone from the game?
in Pimp Dreams
Posted
I did read the rest. Your title was the only part I felt a need to respond to. I agree with your other points for the most part but I’m not upset about them like you are because I know the game is still changing and I have the will power to avoid doing things I know will hurt my enjoyment of the game. I’m my current play through we stayed in the forest for the first 40 days before going into the other biomes and the progression felt really nice.
My comment was simply to make sure you realize that if A16 has been the high point of the game, you can still play it. The devs maintain several of the past alpha versions and A16 is one of them.
While you wait to see whether A20 becomes something you like better go play the version you love. <shrug>