Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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I didn't mean that a player can't focus their gear, abilities, and playstyle on stealth. Obviously you can do that so in that sense there is a stealth build. What I meant to convey is that this is not a stealth game nor a game that is designed to be conquered by stealth alone. Spending points and dukes in order to acquire the maximum advantages for stealth is never going to guarantee 100% success in stealth in this game because the developers are not designing the game to be a stealth game. There will always be times when a shotgun is going to be handy to have at hand (not that you must pull it out, mind you).
Someone who plays this game with a traditional "stealth build" in their mind is going to suffer disappointment as they play and may even think the points and money they spent on stealth was wasted because they wanted to be able to approach every situation from stealth and they don't care that they can re-stealth and then continue. A "stealth build" carries with it an expectation that stealth is going to work every time because that's what I paid for. I know this attitude to be real because we've seen it come up time after time after time.
Someone who plays this game with the understanding that stealth is one part of the agility build (or one part of a hybrid build between 2 or more attributes) is going to avoid disappointment because they aren't trying to play the whole game as a stealth character. They use the appropriate tool for the appropriate situation. They are willing to use stealth when it works (and it often works even without a single point spent on perks or a single duke spent on gear) and to either re-stealth or switch to a different tactic when it doesn't. They'll spend points on stealth related perks because it enhances the stealth abilities they already possess from Day 1 and make their character more effective during those times that stealth works. I know this attitude to be real because...its me.
I agree with you that many are coming here with preconceived notions about how a game should work with a stealth component to it and there is nothing to be done about preconceived notions. That all happened before they ever showed up. Obviously there has been some friction at the point where the development team's vision for stealth has intersected the expectations of many people for how they think stealth should work from all the threads on this subject. They are aware of the friction and will either adjust or remain firm in their own vision.
I just want to make it clear that this is not a stealth game with a traditional "stealth build" that will allow a fully kitted out player to approach every situation with stealth and be 100% successful. Maybe that is a bad choice by the designers. Regardless, as players we can adopt an understanding of how stealth works in this game and adjust our expectations to find relief from disappointment until/if the devs adjust their vision to match what we want.
I do think there are some improvements that can be made still and I wanted to make it clear to the OP that our AI programmer and our level designers are not above going through and making adjustments-- especially since the code as of A20 is less about flagging attack volumes that have to be changed per POI and are more about AI and pathing that can be changed for all zombies globally. If there are sleeper placement issues or volume spawning activation issues, those do need to be tackled on a per POI basis but the level design team has yet to tell anyone that they are unwilling to look at a POI and make necessary adjustments.
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I think these are some false assumptions:
1) The POIs haven’t been reworked for stealth
2) People don’t play stealth very much
3) The game has a “stealth build”
4) You have to go for your shotgun if zombies wake up in a room.
I would add “trigger rooms” to this list but I’m not exactly sure what you are defining as a trigger room. All of the POIs were reworked for A20 so that the rules for how and why sleepers in volumes wake up and detect the player were changed. People tend to call any room a “trigger room” in which zombies woke up and detected them because they assume they didn’t make any mistakes so the room MUST have been coded with an automatic wake-up and ambush trigger.
As to your request, there is a change to perks for A21 that will reduce costs for one or two aspects of weapon and tool use— so maybe these changes will free up points to use for stealth that you may not have had in the past— but there are no plans to reduce the exact costs you mentioned or make specific gear like night vision goggles or armor attachments cheaper or easier to find.
If it is determined that some balance changes to POIs needs to be done for stealth gameplay, I know the level design team will do it. If faatal isn’t happy with the sleeper code of waking up, detecting players, pathing to them, etc. he will absolutely look over it again before final release.
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37 minutes ago, sillls said:
Really hoping that the Devs fix the shade, it's too dark.
I could be in the middle of the day, sunshine but once you walk into shade it suddenly feels like nighttime. It's really dark and you can't really see anything.
Im not sure what you mean. Are you talking about walking under a tree or going inside a POI where the windows are all barricaded and there are not any light sources? If the former. I haven’t seen that, myself, and if the latter, it’s intended for you to either use a head lamp, a flashlight, or break open the windows to let light in, or stumble around in the dark.Perhaps your brightness setting is too low for your preferences? I usually turn mine down to 15% so that dark areas and nighttime are actually dark. You say that shade is like nighttime but there have been a lot of posts that nighttime, itself, is too bright at default brightness levels for a lot of people and that we can see too far and too well in the dark.
What’s your brightness level set at and what exactly are you meaning by walking into shaded areas? What shadow setting are you using?0 -
48 minutes ago, bachgaman said:
We won't be able to reach a consensus.
We sure couldn’t the last time this topic came up nor the time before that nor the time before that…3 -
6 minutes ago, rateds2k said:
I would just like to have to have parts to repair the weapons. Repairing weapons are way too easy. No planning at all.
You know those parts of the game that you think are just boring and tedious and you just want the result and to not have to go through the boring tasks to get the result? Now imagine that you are the developer and could easily diminish that part of the game.
Madmole hates tedious repair mechanics.
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8 hours ago, Jugom said:
Let them refill empty jars, but only from one of those big blue canisters that will have to be placed inside your LCB area and have to be manually filled with buckets.
But the bucket disappears after each use. 😂
It might not be a bad idea to allow players to use a bucket of water with the dew collector to instantly fill it if they don’t want to wait for the timer. The bucket would be consumed and the water block used to fill the bucket could also be used up. For those suffering in their thinky things for not being able to transport water from a water source to their base to build up their water supply, this could be a soothe and a comfort.
Could possibly be a modded by adding a fuel slot to the dew collector in which you place a bucket of water and once it is consumed the dew collector is full.
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12 minutes ago, Howlune said:
While I wasn't initially a fan of the idea of taking away glass jars, I'm starting to agree with this change. It was a simple case of "oh look, they're taking another thing away and requiring you to think even less*... but I never really thought about the fact a player could go to any water source and instantly get 125 bottles of murky water and basically be set for a very long time with little to no effort. Unfortunately, it still feels as though Food and Water is of little importance to most players as killing yourself and respawning instantly heals all injuries, fills all meters, and just about completely renews you at the cost of a pretty small amount of time wasted. I can understand how difficult it is to balance making survival mechanics matter while not making the game frustrating or punishing enough for players to not want to play... but deaths seem pretty inconsequential when they basically rewind all those injuries, infection, the food and water loss, etc.
Something I admired about the wellness system back in the day is on top of you being alive, you had something you had to keep a proper balance of lest you die and lose it. I am not saying wellness was better, it had its pitfalls (like getting to a point you basically can't die, having so much food that gave the most wellness, etc). I get the idea of respawning is like waking up from a bad dream, it's a cool concept... but it feels like players will get a broken leg and not have a splint readily available, so they opt to "wake themselves up again" instead.
That’s why I like the setting Lose All On Death. It’s a fair trade to lose your entire inventory for gaining back health, fullness, hydration, and healing of all debuffs. It also brings a bit of “degradation” into the game since your gear goes poof if you die. Plus there’s the benefit of not having to waste time running back for your backpack.
I do agree that there is a real problem with death erasing status effects. It’s been brought up a lot internally and there’s been talk about creating a setting for persistent stats through respawn but it just hasn’t reached the priority list yet.
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A16 had skill points for sure. The console version is based off of A14. Does it have skill points? If so, then it’s probably A13 as the last one without skill points. Hard to remember anymore.
You can opt in to those versions and see.
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2 hours ago, POCKET951 said:
so the secret stash is disappearing in A21, another hefty blow to the intelligence tree.
But at the same time a hefty shot in the arm to crafting. I craft so much more in A21.As for the perk trees and skills, you can expect some
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38 minutes ago, bloodmoth13 said:
Im not excited about randomly getting dyssentry, no matter how small the chance.
Just the fact that you think this is a new feature underscores how little of a presence murky water has had in the game. The percent chance of getting dysentery has been in the game for years. It shows how badly something needed to change to make dysentery and murky water even have relevance in the game
It can be mitigated by taking vitamins or by drinking goldenrod tea and I’m talking right now in A20 as well as in A21.
in real life we don’t know when we will get sick. Someone can smoke and get lung cancer and someone else never does. I don’t like the idea of a bar that you watch and game with— drinking right up to the limit and then stopping because you know the next drink will cause sickness. We don’t know those things nor have that much control.
Bad events that happen to us can be random and then we deal with overcoming rather than having full knowledge about our biochemistry and exactly how much to drink and then never having a bad event happen.
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8 hours ago, Matt115 said:
To be honest old system + gun attachments could be merged together and this could be the best system
Well such complexed system would be great - to be honest - a lot of things in 7dtd are too much simplefied
5 hours ago, LastTugBoat243 said:I said the same thing. If both systems were combined it would awesome. It would be better than both of the of the systems on there own.
like I said….maybe. It’s not a foregone conclusion that a hybrid would have been the greatest at all. We can hope it could be or assume it could be but without the system to play test we can’t be sure.
In comparing the two as an either/or situation I think the new system edges out the old in potential. Right now, I’d be fine with either but if they add dozens of new attachments so that weapons can be more unique, then the current system can be much better. It just depends on whether they take this current system any farther with new and interesting attachments or not.
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26 minutes ago, Jost Amman said:
Well, if I had to do the devil's advocate, I could say that, unlike water will do in A21 with streams/pools, you WILL get fuel canisters by wrenching cars... so how do you explain that? If fuel worked like water, you shouldn't be able to get fuel from Fuel Pumps and by wrenching cars.
Those are not empty gas cannisters you are getting. They are full of gas. It is no different than opening a toilet and getting a bottle of murky water. What you don't do is fill your motorcycle with those full cannisters and get back an empty cannister which you can then take to the pump and refill with gas. Water now works the same way. You can harvest water from your dew collectors and find water in loot and buy water and other drinks from the trader. In all of these cases the jars are filled with liquid. Once the liquid is used the container is gone.
I guess someone could mod the game so that when you use a bucket while standing in a lake-- instead of drinking the water it would put full jars of murky water into your inventory. This might make it a bit more consistent with harvesting units of gasoline that can be transported for use later. Unfortunately, that would also totally make hydration survival completely trivial and break the survival game, in my opinion, which is why it probably would be best left as a mod for those folks who don't care about the survival game and just want to always have plenty of water at their disposal.
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2 hours ago, Lunaura said:
"Empty glass bottles" being removed is absolutely unrealistic and a bad change to the game.
The glass jars are not actually removed. They are just not physically represented in the game any longer. They still show up in the icons for water, tea, etc and when you drink you will still be drinking from a jar. It is simply an abstraction exactly like every other container in the game. It is no worse than not getting an empty bowl or plate after eating a meal, or not getting an empty canister after using gas or acid. Somehow....some way...you have been able to play the game and not be bothered by the realism of there not being any empty containers of anything in the game-- except for drinks. I can promise you that it doesn't take very long at all for your mind to accept the absence of physical glass jars exactly the same way as your mind has been accepting the absence of all of the rest of the empty containers of the consumables you've been using in the game for years.
For preventing the player from having an infinity loop of drinkable water on the very first day of the game it is actually a very good change. As to whether you end up enjoying the gameplay of it or not, that remains to be seen.
2 hours ago, Lunaura said:"Players can drink directly from water sources with empty hand by pressing "e"" <-- If we can do this then we're going to be even more tied to a water source than before. OR! Now, let me dig deep in my thinky organ here, we could take this thing called a "bottle" or a "jar" and umm, ok now let me think, dip it in to the now apparently fresh drinkable water, and take it with us to drink while we're out and about in the world. Revolutionary idea I know.
The water from water sources is murky. It isn't fresh drinkable water without consequence. You take damage from drinking straight from a water source and you have a small chance to get dysentery. So really it is just for emergencies until you can get your dew collector farm up and running. You will also find some murky water already in bottled form as you loot which you can take home and boil up for clean water also in a jar. You are still going to be able to carry jars of water around with you in your inventory. But the jars disappears after you drink the water so you can't refill them.
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Probably a bit to soon to know that. Everything is going to be looked at, evaluated, and updated so we can hope.
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28 minutes ago, wolfbain5 said:
Ah I see. slightly affects it. hmm, will have to play and see how slight. Thanks for the heads up
So slight that we are sure to get frustrated posts that it doesn't seem to be working properly because they're finding more magazines in something they didn't perk into than in the thing they did perk into. But not so slight that we shouldn't ever get any frustrated posts that someone has gone days or weeks without ever finding any of the magazines they perked into. Fun times ahead no doubt =p
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Maybe. “Kitchen sink” designs often sound good because you are getting everything but they don’t always end up playing as well as they seemed in theory. Having both versions would have been a pretty complex weapon system involving multiple interfaces and problems regarding available mod slots for guns that could change in quality depending on the mix of parts. Maybe it would have been the absolute best. The devs didn’t think so and swapped one for the other rather than doing a hybrid.
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On 11/7/2022 at 8:21 PM, warmer said:
How far do you go before you stop eating someone.
What you’re really asking is how many bacon and egg meals will a bandit yield…1 -
I liked the old method with the parts that had quality and your gun was the average of them all. But I prefer the new method with the mod attachments and hope they continue to introduce more once they get to the point where they can focus on adding more variety of stuff. Sticking a mod that adds abilities to the basic gun is more exciting than just a part that makes it a basic gun but perhaps at a slightly better quality. We just need moar!!
Both systems have their strengths.
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10 minutes ago, 9664488 said:
Why is there not a word about the optimization of the game?There have been many words. Go back and read @faatal posts since he works a lot on optimizations and you will be able to read about specific things he has been working on. The feature list on the first page of this thread is just that: a feature list. It isn't a changelog that itemizes all changes that have occurred.
Optimization is happening. Word.
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4 hours ago, Tete1805 said:
Instead of removing nerd polling, they could also try to remove the pickup option (E) when outside your LCB.
You would still be able to escape, but it would cost you a little bit.
That wouldn’t stop nerdpoling. It would just leave the remains of nerdpoling littering the server. Then again…new chunk reset timer!1 -
47 minutes ago, Guppycur said:
re: Nerdpolling. Simply increase the time it takes to place the frames and/or remove the ability to build on top of them, OR require nails in the recipe for them. Plenty of ways to make it not cheesy.
I think the way sphereii did it for me was to make it impossible to place a block when your feet were in the air.That also stopped the ability to jump down from high places and place a hay block at the last moment….;)
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Cleaned up the thread so now let’s just stay on topic.
I have just over 2400 hrs logged in the game so I do think my forum time wins handily. Of course, if I could play the game while at work things might be different haha
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I really like your idea of an off-shore ship or even oil-rigger platform. One of the guys created a yacht as a side project so that might eventually make it in but placing these things 30-40 meters away from the shore in the surrounding ocean would be cool. Even some sunken ones might be possible with the new water simulation. @Laz Man? Anything you could add to the potential of this? Is the surrounding ocean considered in bounds or out of bounds for poi placement?
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3 hours ago, Laran Mithras said:
Item Degradation is already in the game. Items degrade, have to be repaired. Any further "Item Degradation" "enhancement" is just tedium to placate masochists. I don't want to have my M60 go from breaking to exploding into nothing to satisfy someone's idea of "Item Degradation Enhancement."
Let the excellent modding community put that kind of tedium up for offer.
That is the way it will have to be. It is pretty simple to do for those who want it. Just remove repair kits. When your weapon is done scrap it for parts and go without until you can find or craft another. It really improves the game….for masochists. 😀15 minutes ago, Games'n'Grumble said:I have two questions about this feature:
1. what will happen to the veins? If a player has completely dug out, for example, a vein of iron - will it return to its original "full" state after 15 days? Or can it randomly not appear there at all?
2. And what will happen to the map? Veins can be found on the map, looking at the points, will they change now?
The chunk returns to how it was when it was originally generated for your fresh new game. While there might be slight randomizations, for the most part it is exactly the same. So the vein would return. The surface deposits would also return and show up on the map.2
Please make stealth build CHEAPER
in General Discussion
Posted
Sufficiently verbose is not something I often achieve—usually overshooting the mark by…a lot. You were probably being sarcastic about the “sufficiently”…haha