Roland
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Posts posted by Roland
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4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:
Like @fragtzack posted, the journey is what matters, not the destination.
Which is why there is grumbling from those who are not enjoying the journey. Why do they hop in before the destination they want more than anything? I have no idea.1 -
15 minutes ago, MaxTunnerX said:
You still don't understand that many games still get developed after getting released or "done" how you put it. Nobody says TFP should instantly abandon the whole game after it's been finished. In fact they can just delete the alpha label off the game and do live updates only on a special, prototype server or something and only add updates to the real game when it's basically bug free or at least not destroying anything.
What, pray tell, makes you think I don’t understand that? The devs have a plan for about two years of continued updates after the game goes gold. There’s no question that the game will continue to get content.
What you don’t seem to understand is the nature of the Alpha label vs the Gold label nor the expectations by the public for those labels.
The fact is that 7 Days to Die is not at a place where the label can be changed. There are still missing features that were promised to be part of the base game and not as DLCs later. There are still elements of existing features that are not at the standard of a finished product. Water and how the character moves through it is adequate for an alpha labeled game but call what we have as finished and the game will be ripped apart as amateurishly constructed.
Since the historical data shows that staying in alpha while the game is alpha quality is in fact NOT hurting the game’s popularity and sales, there is no reason to arbitrarily change its label just because you want it to be done.
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3 hours ago, meganoth said:
How a simple slip of the pen can make a message utterly perplexing 😁. Did you mean Valiant?
No Disney+ I see. It’s a Loki reference.
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13 hours ago, MaxTunnerX said:
Ofc the beta options (thanks Steam for using the proper term for this game) are extremely useful, but they don't fix the main problem - that the game is just not finished, not even officially. As long as the game remains in alpha it will have the label of a forever-going, never-ending project or something often not worth even reviewing because it's only alpha. Also people will be hesitant to invest their whole time and effort into this game as long as it's alpha. And what the OP wants in this topic is not to live in the past by selecting an older alpha but to keep game up to date without getting all his stuff destroyed every once in a while and I think it's a reasonable request.
This speculation is not supported by the timeline of reality. Perhaps you should be worrying about the TVA showing up....
If you look at Steam Charts you can see that this game has generally grown over the last 8 years. That is thanks to ongoing development that keeps the interest alive. Even people who played it for a bit in 2014 will come back in 2021 to check it out and see how it is going. Many of those people get re-hooked.
Now look at most games on Steam Charts that are fully released. Their graphs are predominately declining and it usually takes much less than 8 years until the graph flatlines near the zero activity mark.
There are going to be a few exceptions but this game is thriving and living and growing in its current model. Why destroy that by slapping a "Done" label on it and moving on to their next game? Eventually they will apply that label but not until they are satisfied with their offering. As polished as this game is getting, there are still aspects that are forgivable for a game in alpha but unforgivable in a finished product. If TFP put it out as finished then all of the flaws that can be overlooked due to the alpha status will all of a sudden be negative rep marks against them.
Be careful, Variant.
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jd ogfowa shdhfof aleopcn dirowoo sskskgg hhs hheeeg!
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10 hours ago, Blake_ said:
But what if the single player campaign takes place in the Dishong tower and the single player campaign is guaranteed to be in RWG but without the Dishong tower you get nothing?
You are not going to like this but...AFAIK, Navezgane exists for the story campaign and there aren't necessarily plans to try and make the story mode work with RWG....
7 hours ago, meganoth said:In A19 it is already guaranteed by the algorithm that essential POIs are in a map. I refer to the traders of course. So if a POI is essential for the story add it to the special list the traders are in. Done.
But is that the only issue involved with making sure the story campaign will work in any random world? I don't know the answer to that and I also don't know that the developers are even planning to use any world other than Navezgane to tell the story.
4 hours ago, BFT2020 said:Another solution is play like I do. With stone weapons and stone tools (basically all Tier 0 equipment), I don't use any mods in them. So no burning shafts or anything like that. At that point, a Q4 iron tool is better than a Q6 stone tool as I can put in mods on the stone tool to increase durability or reduce stamina or increase resource gathering (or improve damage on weapons).
Probably can mod out the mod slots on T0 tools / weapons, but I have enough self control not to use them which pushes me to use iron tools. Maybe once the game is final, I might make some tweaks to the xml file to remove that option (adding mods to stone equipment).
I am definitely going to start doing this. Great suggestion.
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7 hours ago, bachgaman said:
It was in A19, good tester
Are you sure? In A19 the chest spawns as soon as you accept the quest from the trader. The perimeter guide appears while you approach but still a ways away. Plus I never failed a buried supplies quest ever for stepping outside a boundary in the past.
In A20, only a rally marker spawns after talking to the trader. When you arrive and activate the marker then the chest spawns as well as the perimeter guide and a proximity warning. Finally, I’ve inadvertently failed the quest twice already for stepping outside the defined perimeter. One was while fighting zombies that showed up and the other was from wandering around to get a rock to repair my shovel and not thinking about it.
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7 hours ago, wolfbain5 said:
ok, now that you are sharing these stories, I do have a question for you on feral sense and stealth. I mean they still gonna notice you from 30 away even with max stealth perks and mods? armor mods, not game mods
In daylight and you out in the open sunlight they are going to see/sense you. I tried sneaking past (unperked) and they always saw me from far off during the day. I didn't try sticking to shadows cast by trees etc. with all perks and modified armor to see if that could help during the day. At night stealth works perfectly well. Inside POI's sleepers are the same with feral sense on as with it off. I did not test fully perked up to see if I could hide from them undetected until their breadcrumb timer ran out so I'm not certain about the extent of stealth-- just that the principles of stealth gameplay do seem to work on ferals for sure at night but that errors on the player's part will bring zombies running to where the player made a noise from a much larger radius than the default game.
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2 minutes ago, Blake_ said:
Your subjective ideal is very subjective.
Really? We're at the point of comparing the sizes of our subjective ideal's subjectivity.....?
4 minutes ago, Blake_ said:My ideal is just: give me the full 7dtd POI experience please
That's a nice request. Nothing objectively wrong with that.
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2 minutes ago, Blake_ said:
Ok. I hate you sweetly. I don't think I'm alone in this. Rick talks about that in the first stream before being corrected by kynasjdfnasju. And that would certainly be cool. I believe more players than you think would love to play a completely random experience that has the full POI pool (neverminding a little repetition) for maps equal or higher than Navezgane.
I can agree that many many players would love to play randomly generated worlds that have the full 100% complement of POI's. It still doesn't make it an objectively better design. It artificially bolsters your argument for anyone who believes the claim, but what you describe as the ultimate map is only your subjective view of what an ultimate map should contain.
To me, the ultimate random map is random and full of unknowns-- such as what locations will be included and what locations are not part of this particular world. If I know for a fact Dishong Tower is somewhere in this world then ho..hum....I'll find it eventually. But if all bets are off and perhaps there are no skyscrapers in this world then if I do find one it is exciting. (In my subjective opinion)
Just now, Blake_ said:That statement makes you arguably correct. We don't have enough data. I'd like to think I do, though.
We'll wait and see. I can wait. I swear.
That was a joke. Even with all the data your view about whether a world should or should not have all the POI's and whether that makes the game better or worse is still subjective. Sorry, all those feelings and desires just originate within your own head and heart and someone else will have their own set of sensibilities that make their experience different than yours (i.e. "subjective")
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1 minute ago, Blake_ said:
I'm sorry, but what if I tell you that you can play Skyrim in a random gen mode which shuffles the cities but that mode lacks Whiterun, an INN in Solitude and Rorickstead?
Is that subjective? I don't think so. That makes Navezgane the complete experience and RWG just a lacking lookalike that doesn't offer an alternative (aside from shuffling positions/ terrain) , but instead offers a lesser empirical experience.
They are different worlds. And you better believe that there would be those interested in the challenge of surviving in a world without particular POI's that show up.
Regardless, it is ridiculous to compare Skyrim and 7 Days to Die locations. Skyrim locations are story based while 7 Days locations are not. If Poopy Pants Daycare doesn't spawn you won't be stopped in your progression. There are other places to get the loot you would have found in PPD.
Regardless of you thinking that your subjective opinion is somehow an objective universal truth held by all gamers, I gotta disabuse you of your fixed belief. There are more Not Blakes out there than you seem to realize and plenty who aren't concerned about whether Old_House_01, Old_House_02, Old_House_03,..., Old_House_24 are all present on every single map generated every single time. If every POI always generates on every map then there really is just one map rearranged but all the same places every single time.
Nope. Your view is definitely not objective-- given the data we have so far.
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I think we should have 7 Days to Die Blue and 7 Days to Die Red and each version only ever spawns half the pool of POI's and the only way to experience all the POIs is to play in a world generated by someone who has the other version....
#gottacatchemall
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Just now, Blake_ said:
As I said. No problem with repetition whatsoever. It's just the lack of the full POI pool that is objectively wrong and makes RWG a lesser experience than Navezgane judging solely on POIs variety. Now, we shouldn't expect 4k maps to have all the POIs, but yes to all of the other sizes, wouldn't you say? That is not the case right now. A huge chunk of POIs won't usually spawn on a 8k map on any roll or seed. There are always some that won't get in and I'm saying that all should get the cut if RWG map size surpasses Navezgane size.
Well I disagree with that assertion. That isn't to say the developers won't change things for A20 or possibly A21 if you end up being correct in this for A20-- BUT there is nothing at all objective about you saying it is wrong to not have every single POI present in every map. That is your subjective opinion. Mine is that random should be random and a random sample of 80% of the POIs per map would be just fine so that maps have unique POIs and new places to discover for at least the first several playthroughs that you roll a new world
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1 minute ago, Blake_ said:
I'm ok with repetition. But I'm stating, saying and directly pointing out that Navezgane has ALL the POIs, and in a20 an 8k map probably won't have ALL the POis. And Navezgane has 6k x 6k resulting in less empirical gameplay by technical quantity. Something is wrong. Do you undestand ?
It might be eventually fixed.... but data shows otherwise.
First of all, we don't know whether or not RWG maps of any size will have ALL the POI's.
Secondly, we don't know whether or not RWG maps of any size are intended by the developers to have ALL the POI's.
You are making two large assumptions. The first is baseless because no technical data has been revealed to indicate it one way or another. The second means that there could be nothing wrong at all when a map doesn't generate one of every single POI. That could be the intended result of random world generation. The developers may make it so you find new sites when you roll a new world and one playthrough on one map isn't enough to experience the entirety of the game.
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9 hours ago, Blake_ said:
I see. So it's exactly what I thought. Some POIs don't make it into the pool even if it's an 8k map. That's the same problem as right now. Nothing did change that much.
Wut? How did you get all of that from what I said?
13 minutes ago, dcsobral said:Roland did not confirm that there were repeating POIs. On the contrary, he said he did not see repeated POIs. Here: " I did not see repeating POIs as I have in past alphas."
Exactly. I can't guarantee that not one single POI repeated somewhere on the map but I can tell you that the problem you described of seeing duplicate water works facilities and radio towers all over the place was not in evidence at all. I cannot speak to the technical aspect of the programming of RWG and I do not know if every single POI will show up once per map, once per city, or some other criteria. I don't know if coding was added to prevent duplication of POIs within the same map. All I know from traveling around in one random map I generated was that I saw no duplicates and that cities were laid out in very satisfying and realistic ways and that there are new POI's that have specifically been added to make the urban downtown areas look really really nice.
From the little very generalized description that I gave, you either have mad extrapolation instincts or you are just mad....
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7 minutes ago, jorbascrumps said:
* This is not a promise that POIs will never repeat.
* I approve this message.
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21 hours ago, Blake_ said:
@Roland you look like a gentleman....
A gentleman never kisses and tells.
Of course, I have only a passing resemblance so I will say that it is the best it's ever been and the cities-- despite being randomly put together-- all seem very polished and fantastic. There are many new POI's that will knock your socks off that work together to make the cities in particular look spectacular. I did not see repeating POIs as I have in past alphas.
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Who knew that playing the game could prepare you for real life construction projects! Finally, the immersion factor of this game has gone way way up!!!
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Looking at building block tiers which (currently) have many steps, we see people mostly skipping and going straight to concrete ASAP. Seems like people would do the same with tools even if the developers gave us full sets in bronze and scrap. Now we see the developers planning to scale back the upgrade steps for building blocks so I can't imagine them ever expanding the steps for tools at this point.
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2 hours ago, 7daystodierocks said:
i for one have noticed a significant diff in injuries in A19 compared to the last alpha i played which is nice
Well, yes…It was completely rebalanced for Alpha 19. The point is that that was for 19.0 which dropped a year ago. Since then there has been no changes to how it works which is why some of us are wondering about Pichi’s statement that in A19.5 it suddenly feels different.
But maybe they didn’t play until now and the last version they did was A18.
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6 hours ago, Gamida said:
2013 - 2021 um wouldn't this be year 8?
If they can oversell then I can undersell…0 -
On 7/25/2021 at 2:27 PM, Jost Amman said:
I just now realized that in A20 we'll have "only" the new pipe weapons... but what about "pipe tools"?
Are there any plans to add (e.g.) pipe shovel, pipe pickaxe and pipe axe, as a new "step-age" between stone and iron?
It's just that it sounds like the logical next step to the addition of the new pipe weapons...
My stone axe is usually better than the first iron axe I get. Where is there room for a step in between them?
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1 hour ago, wolfbain5 said:
so you are saying my wife and I can be playing a20 for our anniversary in october?
If not, I hope it is because A20 got delayed and not because you left the seat up on the toilet one time too many...
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Of course the critics are going to just skip years 8 and 9 go right to DECADE... 😆
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Future of forum
in General Discussion
Posted
It is important but it isn't urgent. We've got at least a year ahead of us before we need to worry about forums for the next game. And by "we" I mean the team of us at TFP who will be involved with figuring it all out. Some time after that, all you'll need to worry about is the notification we send out on where to go and how to do it on your end.
Another important but not urgent topic is about our sun going supernova. Granted, way more important and way way less urgent. But roughly the same category of "things we don't need to worry about right now" and-- possibly the same timeline given the standard TFP release schedule.